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Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:13 PM

I had this policeman friend who killed a man

It was an accident, BUT.

Here's the story....

While patrolling in the New Orleans area he spotted a speeding driver. So gave pursuit. The speeder, having noticed that he was being chased, went even faster. MUCH faster. My friend didn't slow down. He continued in hot pursuit. MUCH hotter. So hot, in fact, that both vehicles ran a traffic signal... the violator made it through the intersection, but my police officer friend smashed into an innocent crossing car. Killed that innocent driver instantly. Needless to say, the speeder got away.

The moral of this story?

LET HIM GO.

This is what this new Atlanta story reminded me of. Needless death. Unwarranted death. Death that doesn't fit the crime. Even IF the deceased had committed some sort of petty crime.....

LET HIM GO.



24 replies, 3770 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply I had this policeman friend who killed a man (Original post)
Goodheart Jun 2020 OP
mr_lebowski Jun 2020 #1
Goodheart Jun 2020 #4
mr_lebowski Jun 2020 #5
BComplex Jun 2020 #11
diva77 Jun 2020 #2
lunatica Jun 2020 #3
alittlelark Jun 2020 #6
TexasBushwhacker Jun 2020 #24
pwb Jun 2020 #7
Iggo Jun 2020 #12
mopinko Jun 2020 #8
jaxexpat Jun 2020 #9
LizBeth Jun 2020 #10
catbyte Jun 2020 #13
Ferrets are Cool Jun 2020 #14
IronLionZion Jun 2020 #15
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2020 #16
Goodheart Jun 2020 #18
CloudWatcher Jun 2020 #17
Goodheart Jun 2020 #19
CloudWatcher Jun 2020 #21
Ron Obvious Jun 2020 #20
grantcart Jun 2020 #23
noneof_theabove Jun 2020 #22

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:21 PM

1. Totally agree. Chase should only be given if the suspect is known to be a danger to the public

at the initial time of attempted stop.

If the cops have reason to believe he's a murderer escaped from the Pen ... okay.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:24 PM

4. Given the haste to escape, there certainly was a good reason to suspect that the fleeing car

had something inside that would have been illegal.

But was it worth the life of an innocent? HELL NO.



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Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:28 PM

5. Something illegal inside is definitely not worth the life of a bystander ...

Unless you, as the cop, know it's a weapon, and that the suspect intends to use it to harm the public, in which case it MAY be deemed worth the risks inherent in a high-speed pursuit.

An occasion which occurs presumably next-to-never.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:59 PM

11. That's what we need; psychic cops.

The cops have radios, and can call on other cops to pick up the chase. It's still not worth killing innocent people.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:22 PM

2. Definitely. Hi speed chases seem to be a bloodsport in Los Angeles. There's even a youtube channel

for them. All the TeeVee stations will pre-empt regular programming to show them in progress. I haven't noticed any lately -- I hope all PD's rethink involvement in such activity.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:24 PM

3. Due to a similar situation in San Francisco decades ago

they passed a law against high speed chases in the city. I think all the Bay Area has that law.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:31 PM

6. My cousin was hit by a police car running a traffic light

WITHOUT his lights flashing. She was broadsided and broke her ankle etc.

Police were not held accountable - she should have paid more attn...............

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Response to alittlelark (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 14, 2020, 10:58 AM

24. I was rear ended and pushed into an intersection

right in front of an oncoming fire truck. That's why I had stopped. Fortunately they avoided me, but THEY called 911 and the cops were there in a couple of minutes.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:31 PM

7. They have to live with themselves.

If they murdered they deserve to be cursed forever and foreafter.

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Response to pwb (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 04:37 PM

12. And they should spend those lives in a concrete box, like the rest of us would have to.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:32 PM

8. i read that in japan they shoot them w paintballs.

i thought most pd's had a limit on hot pursuits like that.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:38 PM

9. Amen. We often had work in the street ROW......

By contract we had to have an off duty cop w/squad car on site, at all times. They were not to pursue traffic violators. They were there in the capacity of emergency responders.
One of these heroes left the job to chase a speeder. He was gone about 25 minutes. When he returned our foreman asked why he'd taken it upon himself to leave his post. When told that he was our employee for the time he was assigned to us and that he could not leave the site (we paid the police force directly, per contract) his response was belligerency and he simply left the site in the middle of the day. We complained to the city and he never worked on our site again. The thing is, we were in violation of our contract when he was off site. I was concerned for our liability, still, for us to quit work when he was gone would have cost productivity, workers' income and about $4,000.00 demobilization / remobilization.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 03:43 PM

10. If anyone else did that, it would not be considered an "accident".

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 04:40 PM

13. Wow, it's a wonder he wasn't charged with vehicular manslaughter. My dad was a cop for 30

years and he always said, "NEVER pursue." You radio ahead and somebody else can head them off or nab them later. And if it's a stolen car, hopefully you'll catch them eventually when they steal another one. There's too much risk in doing what your friend did. Did he still have a job?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 04:49 PM

14. I've been preaching that story for 50 years.

I am 64.
I've had it happen to friends for that long.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 04:55 PM

15. Here in DC, they have a no chase policy

because of this type of scenario of innocent bystanders getting killed accidentally. So of course people abuse it. We also have surveillance cameras everywhere so their plan is to catch them later when they park or stop somewhere.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 05:14 PM

16. I heard the story of state cop...

...first day on the job. Cop got a RADAR alert of a speeder doing 90 on the interstate. A tractor trailer blew by. Sounds dangerous to me and probably a good idea to pursue but maybe also call it in and use extreme caution pursuing. While making a u-turn in the median, this first day rookie was killed by the second tractor trailer trying to race the first one.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 05:18 PM

18. That's horrible.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 05:18 PM

17. That was no accident.

There's a difference between accidents and unintended consequences.

It's an accident if I trip and fall. It's not an accident if I fall while trying to walk a tightrope.

The unintended results of risky behavior should never be excused as an accident. Then we can have a reasonable discussion about acceptable levels of risk and the risk/benefits of a particular risky behavior. As others have noted, many (most? all?) police departments have policies against high speed chases now. I'm disgusted if it's not 100%.

Sorry to be pedantic about this, but "accident" is a trigger word for me!

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Response to CloudWatcher (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 05:19 PM

19. Yeah, this was some 35 years ago.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 05:29 PM

21. Sad for everyone involved.

A quick google and it seems high speed chases are still routine in a lot of districts. Obscene.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 05:25 PM

20. I'll even go so far as to say pulling drivers over for e.g. going 10 mph over the limit should stop

 

I thought giving tickets based on speed cameras had been declared unconstitutional, but we have speed cameras here in King County, WA, so they must be OK after all.

Given that, there's no reason to pull drivers over for minor speeding offences and creating potentially dangerous traffic situations at all, let alone chase after them.

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Response to Ron Obvious (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 06:14 PM

23. In Tucson they got rid of them not because they are unconstitutional per se

But because even citations had to prove that the person being cited had recd the summons personally.

Once that became widely known then everyone stopped mailing in the tickets and they pulled the system.

In Scottsdale they still use them and my housemate got a ticket in the mail.

They have a time limit and Scottsdale sent a server a couple of times but I was able to create doubt on whether this was his primary residence (with truthful answers) so they couldn't leave a served notice.

If anybody calls in and asks about a ticket that is evidence that the ticket has been served and is enforceable, at least in Arizona.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sat Jun 13, 2020, 05:42 PM

22. Moral of the story

you might be able to out run the car but you can not get away from the radio.

Follow close enough to report when suspect is turn and other info.

Dispatch can pre-stage others including get out the tire spikes.

An office in a close town, back when I was with regional 911, nearly lost his life
playing "John Wayne".
Started pursuit of of vehicle on traffic stop [tail light if I remember], then fled, he followed.
Ended up in the "less desirable" side of town, suspect pulled in a drive when followed by office.
They jumped so did he and he to a 357 in the inner thigh just missing the artery.

Problem: he never notified dispatch where they were going and he nearly lost his life.

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