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FightingIrish

(2,716 posts)
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 09:09 PM Jun 2020

A letter to family lost to Donald Trump

My wife and I received an email from her brother telling us we will not be going to Heaven without embracing Donald Trump as our lord and savior or something to that effect. This is my response. Feel free to use any of it if you find yourself in the same position.

"We have always had our differences of opinion. That’s all they were. They stemmed from our own personal experiences and convictions, our individual perspectives on the world we live in. We usually agreed on facts and unassailable truths. Something has happened in the span of a few years that defies explanation. We look at something obvious and no longer see the same thing.

I don’t expect you to share my view of the value of immigrants in our society or my belief that we have a government to promote the common good. We seem to have a big divide on the core principle of the separation of church and state. There have always been grey areas but now your black is my white and your white is my black. Truth, it seems, has become negotiable.

Donald Trump has come between us. To you he is a savior. To me he is all the things even most Republicans admitted he was before the Electoral College made him president.

The current pandemic has given us an objective measure of how Trump’s government has failed us. The numbers of infections and related deaths, likely under-reported, present the sharp contrast between what Trump has done and how competent, effective world leaders have dealt with a global health crisis. The number of confirmed cases in the United States is by far the worst in the world, eclipsing all other countries, even those with clearly failed leadership. The pandemic has marched steadily on in the absence of a national plan and in the face of our government’s denial of its devastation. Blaming it all on Obama or the Chinese does not belie the fact that our response has been uniquely and exceptionally disastrous.

I can understand your approval of Trump’s appointing judges sympathetic to your beliefs, but any Republican president could have done the same. He succeeded in getting a list of judges confirmed that were given him by the Federalist Society. A Republican majority in the Senate and an unprincipled Senate Majority leader, indifferent to democracy, made that a slam dunk, no leadership required.

In embracing what he has accomplished as the work of God, you have had to overlook his failings as a human being. He is a role model that no moral person of any faith would want to follow or encourage others to follow. Holding up the Bible for a photo op in front of a church does not make him a Christian. It only served to reinforce his position as president for a few and not for all. His sinful life is an open book. His own words attest to his lack of morals, principles or compassion. Denying his faults doesn’t erase them. If you truly believe you will be rewarded in the next life, don’t expect to see Donald Trump in the company of the saints. He is incapable of contrition.

Presidents are essentially managers. They don’t really have to do much but upholding the Constitution and uniting the country in troubled times are the essence of their job. General Mattis was astonished that the president he directly served has made no effort to bring us together as one nation. In that alone, he has failed miserably as president. If you are oblivious to his attempts to divide us you aren’t paying attention.

I hope you find nothing admirable in how he has enriched himself at our expense. When we finally get an honest accounting of how he has used his office to enrich himself, his family and his organization, I think even you will be horrified at the shameless grift and corruption.

I do not intend to make any moral judgement about you. People define themselves by what they admire in others. For me, humility, courage, honesty and compassion are at the top of my list. Trump is a paragon of none of these.

If Trump has ever demonstrated the slightest bit of humility, it certainly wasn’t in his public life. I only have what we all see and that is a man incapable of self-deprecation, unwilling to admit any error no matter how insignificant. His self-aggrandizement is comical to the point of his being a parody of himself.

Trump’s tough guy bravado should never be confused with real courage. He used his family’s wealth and influence to avoid the war I volunteered for. Even in the presidency he has always relied on others to take on the things he had no stomach for. His trademark “You’re fired” is almost always delivered by underlings. He threatens his enemies with the military he once hid from. He takes on his enemies from the safety of from wherever he launches his disgusting Twitter rants.

Trump’s dishonesty is legendary. He lies about his own lies even though there is a public video record of the things he lies about. It is almost as though he has a visceral aversion to truth. His dishonesty manifests itself in the relentless cheating that led to his impeachment.

Trump’s total lack of compassion makes him incapable of any effort to heal the divisions that weaken us. He seems incapable of even acknowledging the suffering of others, especially when he is the agent of that suffering. Kids in cages ripped from their families, mass shootings, police brutality and the growing number of COVID-19 deaths are just abstractions to him, nothing that causes him any discomfort or loss of sleep. Nothing that might affect his golf game.

We may not be headed for the same destination in eternity but we’re currently stuck in the same reality. We just can’t agree on what that reality is. Any further interaction with you now would now be awkward and uncomfortable. The miles between us has become a universe. If we all survive the ongoing unmitigated disasters, please don’t be offended if we make no further attempt to cross that universe. Maybe we’ll surprise you in the next one."

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
A letter to family lost to Donald Trump (Original Post) FightingIrish Jun 2020 OP
Donald Trump fucked a porn star while his wife was pregnant" RhodeIslandOne Jun 2020 #1
+1 n/t CousinIT Jun 2020 #2
That! onecaliberal Jun 2020 #11
Well, WWJD? renate Jun 2020 #13
I think Barron was two months old? colorado_ufo Jun 2020 #22
And then paid her money to keep quiet about it. robbob Jun 2020 #24
Now now now this is not true.... madeup64 Jun 2020 #30
They don't give a fuck RhodeIslandOne Jun 2020 #34
Nice letter. Well written and thank you for sharing. cayugafalls Jun 2020 #3
K&R iamateacher Jun 2020 #4
Great Letter. Hope you will post any reply. Funtatlaguy Jun 2020 #5
As do I. But... perfessor Jun 2020 #54
Babies in cages should have been enough. LakeArenal Jun 2020 #6
Excellent essay. sop Jun 2020 #7
It's a beautifully written letter but his blind support is the dreamland Jun 2020 #8
K&R smirkymonkey Jun 2020 #9
Excellent. sinkingfeeling Jun 2020 #10
WOW Dan Jun 2020 #12
Another false savior in a long line of many. keithbvadu2 Jun 2020 #14
Very well said.... paleotn Jun 2020 #15
Trump reality is so weird, but for sure no Christian could support him. Karadeniz Jun 2020 #16
To anyone who told me I'm "not going to heaven," Lord Ludd Jun 2020 #17
I have a more confrontational approach Warpy Jun 2020 #21
Beautifully written but it won't work Warpy Jun 2020 #18
The Family is truly horrifying. PatrickforO Jun 2020 #27
It's astonishing to me how few know who and what they are. Warpy Jun 2020 #28
Then they also believe Martin Eden Jun 2020 #39
Naw, only the bullies are anointed by god Warpy Jun 2020 #40
Democrats must truly be powerful Martin Eden Jun 2020 #41
That would be logical. Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2020 #51
Wonderful letter, very well written. FM123 Jun 2020 #19
If my crusty old brain remembers correctly from Bible study 50 years ago.... KY_EnviroGuy Jun 2020 #20
Great letter. Its truth won't matter to the cult. Faygo Kid Jun 2020 #23
Donald Trump is our Lord and Savior? PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2020 #25
Really good post. PatrickforO Jun 2020 #26
Guarantee this VladmireTrumpkins Jun 2020 #29
Excellent letter, superbly written Martin Eden Jun 2020 #31
If your family is Irish Catholic then they're ignoring everything the Pope has been saying. pnwmom Jun 2020 #32
it's really easy to reduce trump supporters - just associate them with limbaugh certainot Jun 2020 #33
That you can respond to such an admonition with such grace and patience thenelm1 Jun 2020 #35
That's a lot of words just to tell someone they're Stupid. BadGimp Jun 2020 #36
Good letter burrowowl Jun 2020 #37
It's a good letter lunatica Jun 2020 #38
The only thing I would add: GoCubsGo Jun 2020 #42
"Buy bull belt" JudyM Jun 2020 #43
You are a better person than I am. CrispyQ Jun 2020 #44
"When you agree not to talk politics, they invariably bring it up." Different Drummer Jun 2020 #52
it's true sheilahi Jun 2020 #45
Nothing about Trump to admire. Jimvanhise Jun 2020 #46
Please let us know if you get a reply. I have a few questions for you if you Native Jun 2020 #47
He will read it and understand it. It won't change his mind though. FightingIrish Jun 2020 #48
My husband and I have discussed moving there if Trump is reelected too. Native Jun 2020 #49
Excellent letter and many good responses, yonder Jun 2020 #50
This is a brilliant letter malaise Jun 2020 #53
It's good you care enough to send the very best bucolic_frolic Jun 2020 #55
Brilliant!! Freedomofspeech Jun 2020 #56
Isn't worshipping trump like that like Doreen Jun 2020 #57
Exactly like. Except he's an orange jackass. soldierant Jun 2020 #58

madeup64

(256 posts)
30. Now now now this is not true....
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 11:33 PM
Jun 2020

"Trump fucked a porn star while his wife who had just given birth was at home with their infant son."

In all seriousness I really loved this response. However, I wonder if the recipient will take the time rethink whether his blind allegiance to Drumpf is the sure fire ticket to heaven he believes it is.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
34. They don't give a fuck
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 12:37 AM
Jun 2020

As long as he bans abortion, ruins the lives of gay people and the added benefit of tax cuts for the rich and mega church supporters, they will vote for Satan himself.

sop

(10,104 posts)
7. Excellent essay.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 09:32 PM
Jun 2020

I had a friend who believes Trump is pretty much America's savior; we no longer speak. I hope your BIL sees the light, but when one's identity rests on Trump being God, to admit he isn't requires rethinking everything you are. For some people, that's impossible.

dreamland

(964 posts)
8. It's a beautifully written letter but his blind support is the
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 09:46 PM
Jun 2020

Reason why I worry we might lose 2020. In what way, has this ignoramus ever model his actions with those of God?

keithbvadu2

(36,667 posts)
14. Another false savior in a long line of many.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:24 PM
Jun 2020

Another false savior in a long line of many.

That one from 2,000 years ago isn't good enough for your BIL.

paleotn

(17,884 posts)
15. Very well said....
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:37 PM
Jun 2020

I wish I could be as eloquent with those close to me who are under the orange bastard's spell, but I have nothing but white hot anger for them. They can all, every fucking one of them, go straight to hell.

Lord Ludd

(585 posts)
17. To anyone who told me I'm "not going to heaven,"
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:46 PM
Jun 2020

for whatever reason, my reply would be, "Neither are you, chief. It's The Big Sleep for all of us, but it's too bad you'll never find out you were wrong."

Your post is superb.

Warpy

(111,164 posts)
21. I have a more confrontational approach
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:52 PM
Jun 2020

I just grab their hand and pump it furiously while I say "I'd heard god was dead, but I hadn't heard you'd gotten his job, congratulations!"

I can usually make a clean getaway while they try to process it.

Warpy

(111,164 posts)
18. Beautifully written but it won't work
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:49 PM
Jun 2020

because your BIL is obviously going to a corrupt church that embraces the doctrine of The Family, that leaders are determined in advance and appointed by god and can do no wrong because they are his most blessed servants simply by virtue of grabbing power. They honor Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot equally as anointed by god as great leaders and hope to meet them all in heaven.

Their twisted brand of determinism would make Calvin blush and it's one of the worst perversions of Christianity out there. It is slowly destroying your BIL as a human being and right now, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. I suppose you could denounce him as a servant of the Antichrist, following false prophets in the latter days, but that would also fall on deaf ears, especially if your wife wants to keep contact.

Good luck avoiding murder.

Warpy

(111,164 posts)
28. It's astonishing to me how few know who and what they are.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 11:15 PM
Jun 2020

They also have no idea that the building they go to for solace in times of trouble has been infected by them.

Warpy

(111,164 posts)
40. Naw, only the bullies are anointed by god
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 08:15 AM
Jun 2020

Obama was installed against god's wishes by a bunch of willful Democrats who should never have been allowed to vote. They know Dummy was chosen by god because he lost the popular vote and became president anyway.

The main thing that always bothered me about Hillary Clinton was her membership in The Family when Bill was in the White House. I still voted for her, anyone is better than Dummy.

Martin Eden

(12,847 posts)
41. Democrats must truly be powerful
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 10:35 AM
Jun 2020

When they can overcome the will of the almighty!

If only it were so.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
51. That would be logical.
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 03:48 PM
Jun 2020

So, no.

Just like when a RW church is hit by lightning, it's a sign god approves of the church, but when tragedy befalls non-RWers, it's a sign of God's disapproval. No logic.

FM123

(10,053 posts)
19. Wonderful letter, very well written.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:49 PM
Jun 2020

I am sorry you (and many folks) are in this predicament with family because of this horrible man who sits in our White House.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,488 posts)
20. If my crusty old brain remembers correctly from Bible study 50 years ago....
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:51 PM
Jun 2020

Christians are not supposed to worship each other or any other human beings, with all mankind being equal before their God.

Therefore, even if we disregard Trump's crimes and transgressions, he must not be venerated above anyone else.


That should scramble their brains.......


Good letter and thank you for sharing.....

Faygo Kid

(21,478 posts)
23. Great letter. Its truth won't matter to the cult.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 10:56 PM
Jun 2020

By this time, nothing matters to his base other than to blindly worship him. They will not be moved.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,816 posts)
25. Donald Trump is our Lord and Savior?
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 11:06 PM
Jun 2020

Whoah! I'm not much of a Christian (raised Roman Catholic, left the church by age 16) but I'm under the distinct impression that the one and only Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ.

(I REALLY want to post the Apostle's Creed here, but I'll restrain myself)

It's up to you, but I'd ask brother if he honestly thinks Trump is the Second Coming. And then tell him to go fuck himself.

While I have a brother who is an asshole Republican, none of my immediate relatives are jerkwads quite like your brother. Lucky me.

VladmireTrumpkins

(370 posts)
29. Guarantee this
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 11:31 PM
Jun 2020

They wont be moved a bit.. I don't know what the magical powers he possesses over them but the heavens could open a Jesus Christ could appear and say "He is a liar" and they, and millions like them, would say "Fake news!"

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
32. If your family is Irish Catholic then they're ignoring everything the Pope has been saying.
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 12:05 AM
Jun 2020

Along with most of the Bible.

Any "good Catholic" should be worried that DT might be the anti-Christ.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/06/03/george-floyd-pope-francis-condemns-death-calls-racism-sin/3134243001/

“My friends, we cannot tolerate or turn a blind eye to racism and exclusion in any form and yet claim to defend the sacredness of every human life,’’ the pope said during the audience, held in the presence of bishops because of the coronavirus restrictions on gatherings.


Pope Francis

@Pontifex
We cannot tolerate or turn a blind eye to racism and exclusion in any form. At the same time, we have to recognize that violence is self-destructive and self-defeating. Nothing is gained by violence and so much is lost. Let us pray for reconciliation and peace.


Francis said he is joining the church in St. Paul and Minneapolis and across the U.S. "in praying for the repose of the soul of George Floyd and of all those others who have lost their lives as a result of the sin of racism."

At the same time, the pontiff warned that “nothing is gained by violence, and so much is lost," quoting a statement from Archbishop José H. Gomez of Los Angeles that was released Sunday.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
33. it's really easy to reduce trump supporters - just associate them with limbaugh
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 12:17 AM
Jun 2020

let them know you know they believe professional liar and nevr been right about anything the last 30 years limbaugh

it will immediately put them on the defensive. they will not be able to defend him and wont want to

thenelm1

(851 posts)
35. That you can respond to such an admonition with such grace and patience
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 01:20 AM
Jun 2020

clearly shows who the real Christian is in the family.

I'm very fortunate in that no one in my family has fallen for the con that is Dump.

The cognitive dissonance to believe that this fool is anything more than the complete turd that he has always been his whole life boggles the mind. His constant lying and failures from his current position are literally writ large in plain sight!! Is there some kind of universal decoder ring that only his followers get that translates his gibberish into something that sounds gawdly?

The thing is corrupt to the core and always has been. It's broken every one of the Commandments as I was taught them through Catholic instruction since about age 6 through 15 or 16, except maybe "Thou shalt not kill", but even that one would be debatable. Particularly now with his despicable non-response to a pandemic, to which, as the supposed leader, he should have marshalled the necessary resources to try and minimize the infections. His actual response? Do nothing and proclaim "I'm not responsible for it." Some leadership - he didn't even begin to try. (Substitute "Lord & Savior" for leadership if you have the stomach for it. It just make it worse.)

As to the, so called, Evangelical Christians, it's been blatantly obvious for years that so many of the rightwing Evangelicals aren't actually "Christians", but believers in the "fire & brimstone" of the Old Testament versus actual believers in the New Testament teachings of forgiveness as presented in that book. Heck, if most of these fools were to ever realize that the “Yeshua” of the New Testament was actually a Jewish rabbi they'd probably burst into flames. The "Christian" part only came to be well after his death. (But the particulars of that is a whole other discussion entirely.)



lunatica

(53,410 posts)
38. It's a good letter
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 02:42 AM
Jun 2020

I can feel the sadness you must be feeling. Even if you wrote it in anger, much more comes through. I’m sorry this is happening to you. About 15 years ago my sister wrote me after we fought over what god feels about Gay people. She was a new Born Again and insisted that she had to hate what god hates. The last thing I heard from her was a 3 page letter in which she described, exhaustively, how I was going to hell and exactly in which way god would punish me.

I just let it go. We haven’t spoken since and we never will again.

GoCubsGo

(32,075 posts)
42. The only thing I would add:
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 10:39 AM
Jun 2020

If Heaven is full of people who believe Donald Trump is a good person, worthy of respect and admiration, then I'd just as soon go to Hell. No way I'd want to spend eternity with people like that.

Full disclosure: I'm actually an agnostic, and don't believe that Heaven and Hell exist, at least not in the Judeo-Christian form. But, having lived for decades in the BuyBull Belt, I know what works with their mentality.

CrispyQ

(36,424 posts)
44. You are a better person than I am.
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 12:30 PM
Jun 2020

I've unfriended most of the republicans I know & I avoid them in real life. The Con's covid response was more than I could take. Anyone who still supports this sorry asshole after his abysmal handling of this crisis, can fuck the fuck off. If your BIL has any integrity left at all, he will feel shame when reading your letter, but I suspect not. Sorry, but they are a cult. I have some right wing nut jobs in my family & you can't talk to them. When you agree not to talk politics, they invariably bring it up. They want to get a rise out of you. They thrive on the conflict. That's why he wrote to you in the first place.

Different Drummer

(7,606 posts)
52. "When you agree not to talk politics, they invariably bring it up."
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 04:15 PM
Jun 2020

So true, from my personal experience.

Jimvanhise

(300 posts)
46. Nothing about Trump to admire.
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 01:31 PM
Jun 2020

1) He is being sued for rape and is using his lawyer to try to avoid giving a DNA sample, which would clear him if he was innocent.

2) No Republican or conservative would have tolerated a Democratic candidate had they made the "grab 'em by the pussy" tape.

3) In El Paso, at the site of the massacre of 20 people, Trump treated it as a photo op and posed for the cameras, smiling and giving two thumbs up. To this day I don't understand that.

4) He claimed that Democrats had an "open borders" bill even though no such bill ever existed in any form.

5) The only health care bill Trump ever presented would have disenfranchised 20 million Americans. After it failed to pass he offered no other version and instead is in court trying to destroy the Affordable Care Act--during the worst pandemic America has experienced in 100 years.

6) He claimed that Fox News presented a report on four women who said that they were paid to say that he assaulted them. No such report exists from Fox News or anywhere else.

7) In Helsinki, the whole world saw Trump grovel in front of Vladimir Putin like a whipped dog.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Native

(5,936 posts)
47. Please let us know if you get a reply. I have a few questions for you if you
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 02:04 PM
Jun 2020

... don't mind:
1. Do you think your BIL will read the entire letter?
2. Do you think he'll understand it, especially the last paragraph?
3. How were you able to keep a cool head while writing this? Your restraint is the thing that amazes me the most.

FightingIrish

(2,716 posts)
48. He will read it and understand it. It won't change his mind though.
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 02:31 PM
Jun 2020

We have always danced around politics with him and his wife. We knew they were very committed to their faith but didn’t realize that Trump had become a part of it. We had hoped that they had seen enough of Trump’s failing presidency to consider alternatives. My wife was very hurt when she realized that they thought so much less of us because we don’t agree with them.

Yesterday I received my grandmother’s birth certificate from Ireland, the next step in obtaining Irish citizenship. We have an exit strategy. If Trump and his goons stay in power, visiting my in-laws will not even be an issue.

Native

(5,936 posts)
49. My husband and I have discussed moving there if Trump is reelected too.
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 02:52 PM
Jun 2020

Last edited Sun Jun 14, 2020, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)

I got my Irish citizenship and passport in 2015, thanks to my grandmother too! Bridget (Bridie) Keane, RIP.

We have relatives in Georgia who are closet racists and big Trump supporters. Politics is completely off limits. They occasionally try to get a "conversation" going, but we shut them right down. It's the only way to keep the peace. Fortunately, after repeatedly shutting them down, they've pretty much given up baiting us. We can't discuss business, healthcare, the economy, or any other gateway topic to Trump. Golf and cards and what the kids are up to. That's about all we have in common these days.

I really feel bad for your wife. I've had to cut ties with some siblings because it was all too toxic. When you're younger you tend to hold out hope that they'll change, but eventually that just becomes a lie you tell yourself to justify putting up with their hostility & ignorance. At some point you simply have to rescue yourself from their abuse.

Here's hoping our upcoming trips to Ireland will simply be to visit. 🍻

yonder

(9,657 posts)
50. Excellent letter and many good responses,
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 03:33 PM
Jun 2020

Especially #20 & #35. Sorry about BIL but congratulations on your exit plan.

bucolic_frolic

(43,062 posts)
55. It's good you care enough to send the very best
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 05:53 PM
Jun 2020

I would have said why are you worshiping the Devil and by the way after COVID-19's botched response wipes out 5% of us, there's the Cancer Wave from the Devil's environmental and deregulation policy to put down the rest. Life expectancy is going to be seriously shortened because of this guy.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
57. Isn't worshipping trump like that like
Sun Jun 14, 2020, 06:52 PM
Jun 2020

worshiping the golden calf? What happened to "thou shalt not put any other god before me"?

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