Drunk people frequently show poor judgement.

[Tom Rinaldo]

It seems to have something to do with the effect of alcohol on the brain, and this has been well known for millennium. Sometimes drunk people make really terrible choices, such as stealing a Taser from a cop during an attempted arrest. Seldom are they executed for it. If every rich white kid who made a horrible choice while drunk at a frat or house party faced lethal consequences for their alcohol abetted belligerent responses, the U.S. Supreme Court would not look the same today.

[R B Garr]

1. Who even called the cops on him for this?

Just knock on the window and find out what was going on before calling the cops. He was so polite! He just needed an Uber ride home.

[LymphocyteLover]

5. Right? It could have been a Wendy's employee

and why the Wendy's was torched...

[JI7]

2. One reason I started the thread asking if cops should have college degrees was because of this

Why doesn't the cop know how to deal with this. The cops attitude with him just seemed off. More should be expected of them.

[milestogo]

7. College doesn't teach you how to deal with this.

[NJCher]

44. I think it does, to an extent

College doesn't teach you how to deal with this.

Sociology, psychology, communication. Such courses give a depth and understanding of how societies are structured and why and how they operate.

African American history would be invaluable.

However, police culture could cancel much of this out.

[milestogo]

46. How many people are still studying liberal arts curriculum?

[ProfessorGAC]

50. According To This, A Lot

In 2015, around 12% of all bachelors degrees awarded. Around 400,000.

Also per this cite, this is an increase of 88% since 2000. But, even that year, it would have been around 220,000.

In 2019, there were 19.8 million enrolled in college. 75% finish, so roughly 25% (one quarter of student are seniors finishing) of 15 million.

3.7+ million graduates, 400k+ in HLA degrees. Around 12%

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ccrc.tc.columbia.edu/media/k2/attachments/humanities-liberal-arts-education-how-much.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj09pLB24HqAhWzSDABHTDjBhQQFjAOegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3RQu_XXrg2ys3L5nH7mXpR

[Solomon]

3. We don't even know he was drunk yet.

Witnesses say he passed a sobriety test and MSNBC reported that it looked like one of the officers was ready to let him go but the cop who shot him insisted on arresting him.

Let's wait for the facts please.

[Warpy]

4. Exactly, it could have been sheer panic, a fight or flight response

This might piss the cops off but they need to know it's an automatic response and people aren't in control of it in extremely high stress situations, like being confronted by heavily armed men in uniform.

Running away is not a capital offense. Getting pissed off if somebody does it is inappropriate, it's not personal and never should be taken that way.

[Baclava]

9. CNN reported he was given and blew a .10 breath test, over the limit a bit, new body cam video out

Very normal field sobriety test, both sides cordial and respectful until they go to cuff him, then all hell breaks loose

[StarfishSaver]

21. Why would a black man freak out when two police officers try to handcuff him?

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. It's not like anything has happened recently to a handcuffed by cops black man...

...that would be cause for any alarm.

[femmedem]

42. Plus they didn't inform him that they were about to cuff him.

So he just felt himself being constrained without expecting it/having time to mentally prepare. I think it was a reflex, not a decision.

[Baclava]

25. Maybe he had a big bag of crack or meth in the trunk, did u check?

[StarfishSaver]

27. Cops can never be too careful ...

[Baclava]

31. I mean, he went from calm and peaceful to BOOM, out of control, took them by surprise if u ask me

[StarfishSaver]

33. I'm assuming you're being sarcastic ...

[Baclava]

36. Oh, that, yeah I was, but now that u ask...he totally surprised them when he freaked

[StarfishSaver]

37. Because why would a cop expect an intoxicated person get agitated when they try to cuff him

because that is a COMPLETELY unforeseeable reaction ...

That's sarcasm, too ...

[Baclava]

39. I don't know, I don't think like a cop, I would carry a claw hammer and threaten to rip out gonads

Respect my authoritah!

[StarfishSaver]

40. Oh, great - some police recruiter is going to see your post

and the next thing we'll know you'll be in the next class at the police academy ... you obviously have the stuff they're looking for ...

[Baclava]

41. I learned all my police tactics from Cartman

[femmedem]

43. From his perspective, the cops went from calm and peaceful to BOOM, out of control. nt

[Jersey Devil]

11. Video I saw showed a breath test of .108 which is legally drunk - edited to add video

As a former prosecutor and defense attorney I certainly have seen cases where the breath alcohol reading was much higher, but .08 is the threshold for DWI in most states. Doesn't explain, however, why he started resisting. A reading of .10 or higher would probably make him shaky on field sobriety tests and impair his driving, but most people don't get crazy and start fighting at that level.

Go to the 2:58 mark on this vid to see the breath reading: https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-atlanta-officer-who-killed-rayshard-brooks-identified/hBd198BmRV9Rgt7uSjvoZP/

[Solomon]

13. Thank you for the report. Yes I was a criminal defense attorney as well and when I saw the video of

the conversation I could see that he looked intoxicated. From the questioning I was also wondering if they gave him his Miranda warning.

[AllyCat]

15. Drunk people do crazy things? Maybe he had underlying anxiety?

Who knows why he did it. He did not deserve to die.

[Jersey Devil]

16. No question he should not have been shot

I think you are right about possible anxiety. A .108 breath reading would certainly not account for it. But in any case, as you said, no one should be shot for fleeing the scene of a motor vehicle incident

[Fla Dem]

22. Are those breath tests verifiable? Does the instrument maintain a record?

Or could the cops have just said that to give them a reason to cuff the man? He passed the field sobriety test.

[Jersey Devil]

32. Questionable whether he "passed" field sobriety tests

He looked pretty shaky to me. I have seen lots of vids of people taking those tests as a former prosecutor and defense attorney. He didn't look that bad but staggering or falling is not the standard for impaired driving. As for the breath test, it was on video. Unless the machine was innacurate (they are tested regularly) the cops certainly had a good reason to arrest and cuff him.

Of course he should not have been shot. That was poor training and very bad judgment. But prior to the scuffle he was treated with respect and there was no abuse at all that I could see. I do not think that there is any evidence that the cops' actions were race based. I think it was just very poor judgment and training by the cops. It was criminal for the cops to shoot him but I do not think this is any kind of example of racially motivated action.

[jmg257]

34. The instruments are field grade. Probable cause to confirm observations. Once arrested

they would give him a certified test at the station.

[StarfishSaver]

24. "Most people" probably aren't black men in deadly fear of the police

His reaction may seem odd to some, but it is not unreasonable considering the circumstances.

Police need to understand that a black man may react to them differently than a white personality would and take steps not to escalate the situation.

And not shoot anyone in the back just for running away ... that would be good.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

53. Maybe we need a "Murdered by Police" hallway in every police department.

We need to clean out the Nazis.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. My point is that the cop decided he was drunk, and knew what that means

They don't react to drunk white students wreaking havoc on Spring Break with lethal force.

[LymphocyteLover]

6. But it's NEVER EVER proper to shoot someone in the back running away

especially if they are unarmed

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. Of course not

Again, my point is that police are trained to know the effect that alcohol can have on a person. As if most don't already know that from personal experience. Someone who is drunk generally doesn't pose a general threat and lethal force is not an appropriate intervention.

[LymphocyteLover]

51. Yes, agree-- the cops were probably just being dicks

Not clear why they even had to bother the guy in the first place

[Johnny2X2X]

8. How do we know he stole a taser?

That wasn’t on film. That’s what the police said.

[jmg257]

10. He took one of the cops when they were fighting. Ran, turned and fired it, ran

Some more amd got shot in the back. It is in one of the videos.

Bad shoot.

[Jersey Devil]

12. You can see it on the vid - it is glowing (nt)

nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. Well written and of course a good point and good closer. . . . nt

[c-rational]

18. +1 on the good closer.

[Jarqui]

20. I've blown over before

Using a similar breathalyzer.

I ordered one draft with a meal.
Didn't drink any of it until I'd paid the check and was going to leave.
I had half a glass swig as I left the table - wasn't a big glass - maybe 4-5 oz of draft beer.

Went out in the parking lot and got a tap on my window just after getting into my car.
Wasn't even driving yet (their first problem in my case)
Because the last thing that had been in my mouth very recently was that draft, it threw off the breathalyzer.
I went to the police station and blew 0.01 on the super-duper accurate machine.

I think the toxicology results if supervised by his family's lawyer will be more conclusive.

If he was impaired, he wasn't drunk out of his mind.

If what had happened to me was happening to him- a bogus breathalyzer result, with all the crap I've seen cops doing to black people on videos, I would probably fight the cops too because I'd know I'm not going to get a fair shake.

Regardless, there was no justification to shoot the man to death in the back.
I would have fired the cop as well.

[iluvtennis]

26. Could have been handled so differently. Move his car from drive thru to stall, put him in back

seat, take the keys to police station, leave a note in car that he can pick up keys at station xxx on the next day.

[KewlKat]

28. I thought as you, but my spouse said some states have laws that even if

Your not driving while drunk, they have to take you in...not sure that applies here.

If it were me, after the test, I would have offered to call someone to get him rather than run him in. I guess I wouldn’t have made a good cop...I care too much about people and harm.

[iluvtennis]

29. agree with you...call a friend or call him an uber. this is an example of where a non police based

respsonse team could have been used. the cops had searched the guy and found no weapons. They could have said sir, we've called a non emergency response team that will be here to help you with next steps.

ugh, I'm so disgusted with the way this was handled - a man is dead for nothing.

[KewlKat]

30. Not a dry eye here...just watched the murder video again... :(

[StarfishSaver]

35. If he were a white college student, this would not have ended this way

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. THIS n/t

[dalton99a]

52. Without a doubt.

[Iggo]

49. Yes, you would have made a good cop. But they're not looking for good cops.

[uponit7771]

38. The video I saw the guys car wasn't blocking anything

[Iggo]

47. So do cops. (n/t)

[Hortensis]

48. Cops have a duty to protect and serve people when drunk,

same as any other time, with special awareness that when judgement is diminished special care needs to be taken. They failed their duty first by getting careless with this man.