If, as some here are insisting, the cop was justified in shooting Brooks, why was he promptly fired?

[StarfishSaver]

Not suspended, not put on administrative leave, not given desk duty. Fired. Immediately.

Obviously, his superiors in the Atlanta Police Department believed that the shooting was not only unjustified, but also grounds for immediate termination.

So can we stop with the attempts here to justify shooting an unarmed black man in the back as he ran away?

It's bad enough when rogue cops, Trumpers and other bigots excuse police brutality against us, time after time after time. But it's especially disheartening when people who claim to be our allies try to gaslight us into thinking we're overreacting because, after all, the dead black man had it coming.

[grumpyduck]

1. Shooting somebody in the back is never justified

in a case like this. What the hell ever happened to giving chase, or shooting in the legs, or using old-fashioned police techniques?

The guy is a fucking racist asshole.

[KS Toronado]

24. What ever happened to just letting people run away?

They had his car, his drivers license, where could he hide forever? At home or the impound lot wanting to pick his car up? He would have sobered up and decided it was better to go face the music than have every cop on the alert against him. And if he thought he could hide forever, a friend or relative would have talked him into doing the right thing. And did he have a place of employment? Cops could always find him there when he's sober. COPS SHOULD HAVE LET HIM RUN! Hell they could have followed him in their squad car and waited until he was so tired he couldn't run anymore.

[grumpyduck]

27. Well, if he had been white,

they might have done exactly what you said.

[Alex4Martinez]

2. The numbers of people justifying this murder is very troubling.

We shouldn't have to explain it, to our fellow progressives/democrats, is evidence of the problem.

That is all.

[Walleye]

3. The cop didn't even get time to make up a lie about it.

So unfair! Most cops are not bad people, but they have no compunction at all about lying.

[StarfishSaver]

5. Perhaps his partner is one of good cops we've been calling for

and he refused to cover for his partner...

[Walleye]

11. Quite possible. And that gives me hope.

That’s what’s so sad about this. So many cops are very good and kind people.

[dalton99a]

4. Yeah, they had to prevent Brooks from reaching his cache of weapons stored nearby

[tulipsandroses]

6. I am going to piss some people off with what I am about to say, and frankly don't care

I am echoing what a professor on MSNBC said earlier. Some people have decided that some people's lives just don't matter. It is OK to mete out that kind of violence against some people. They are comfortable with that idea. Not uncomfortable that a man is dead that does not have to be.
I have seen mental gymnastics being done, that they had to shoot him because what if he went on to carjack someone, what if he had people tied up in his basement. There is no mental gymnastics to wonder how scared he might have been for his life. No mental gymnastics to wonder if he was thinking he would never see his children again.
He should have complied. You mean like George Floyd and Sandra Bland?

[StarfishSaver]

7. Thank you!

The only people who this would piss off are people who need to be pissed off - maybe it will wake them up.

[soothsayer]

20. +1000

I, too, have been shocked over the “but this is different” comments.

The hell it is.

Consider also that this took place during a time when, for good or ill, any cop with two brain cells to rub together would put a sticky note on their gun that says “If you’re reading this, slow down, take a breath, and think.”

Cops should be EXTRA careful not to escalate things to death (literally and figuratively) right now. Especially right now.

It’s as though this event happened in a vacuum.

This was unconscionable. It never, ever should have happened.

[sop]

8. Atlanta Police Department Use of Force policy

According to the Atlanta Police Department's standard operating procedure policy manual, which appeared to have been updated on June 7, 2020, officers are only supposed to use force in certain situations, including:

"Employees will only use that force, which is reasonable and necessary to affect an arrest, prevent an escape, necessarily restrict the movement of a prisoner, defend the officer or another from physical assault, or to accomplish other lawful objectives."

The policy also states, "Neck restraints or carotid artery holds are not taught and are not approved for use by the department due to the potential for serious injury or death."

The manual states an employee may only use deadly force when:

"1. He or she reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury and when he or she reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or others; or 

2. When there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm (O.C.G.A. Section 17-4-20) and the employee reasonably believes that the suspect’s escape would create a continuing danger of serious physical harm to any person."

Read the full policy:

https://www.atlantapd.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=3273

[Alex4Martinez]

9. That needs a serious re-write. "any object, device, or instrument" is too vague

"1. He or she reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury and when he or she reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or others;"

You can kill a person with a lot of things and...

"believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of serious bodily injury" makes it a subject matter that really lowers the bar to permit whatever the offending cop wants it to be.

"He pulled out his phone but it looked like a gun... so I shot him."

[jmg257]

19. That is a typical definition of a "deadly instrument". Compared to say a "deadly weapon".

Neither should be used to decribe a taser.
NY Penal

12. Deadly weapon" means any loaded weapon from which a shot, readily
capable of producing death or other serious physical injury, may be
discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic
knife, metal knuckle knife, dagger, billy, blackjack, plastic knuckles,
or metal knuckles.
13. "Dangerous instrument" means any instrument, article or substance,
including a "vehicle" as that term is defined in this section, which,
under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or
threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or other
serious physical injury.

[LeftInTX]

22. Brass knuckles as deadly weapon?

My son had a Chinese Stsr, (similar object) felony weapon.

It was in his backpack, but wasn't considered a deadly weapon. He wasn't charged for various reasons. (Age 15)
He had no intention of using it as a weapon, but more or less was enthralled with deviant stuff. And he used to actually make Chinese stars.
If he would have had a loaded firearm, it would have been a whole different story., even if he had been 18 at the time.

[jmg257]

23. Wrist rockets used to be on there. Dont forget its not just death, but serious injury.

[gulliver]

10. I'm glad he's fired. The reaction should be to vote.

I don't want to see a few bad cops fired or put in prison. I want to see the drug laws changed to take their budget completely out of the police department.

Let's say the cop who shot Brooks is really a Trumpie asshole and not just an underpaid, emotion-holic, idiot. Fire him and put him in jail? Great. But I'd rather he never got hired in the first place. The budget would not have been there to hire these low end types if not for the drug laws. And the Trumpie assholes wouldn't even want police jobs if they couldn't use "make work" laws like the drug laws as licenses to oppress.

[quickesst]

12. can you direct me....

.... to an example thread that shows a member or members of Democratic Underground insisting the shooting was justified? I look forward to your reply. Thanks

[StarfishSaver]

13. They're not difficult to find. Go to General Discussion and read the threads about the shooting

You'll find numerous examples there.

You're welcome.

[quickesst]

14. thanks....

I will do that.

[cwydro]

15. Let me know if you find any.

I haven't as yet.

[JackintheGreen]

17. This thread was quite active last night

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2513947|

Comments 10 and 51, for example

[quickesst]

18. I actually found one....

.... which is really one too many.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

35. then you're not looking very hard. i found several tonight

[Arazi]

21. This thread has a few

https://democraticunderground.com/100213591526

[quickesst]

30. Yeah........

That's the one I found too. Actually replied to one of the posts.

[mcar]

26. Try this one

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213592746

[quickesst]

31. thanks....

It's hard to believe there is someone, especially a duer, who can watch the video and find any reason for justification when every reason put forward is easily shot down, but, there it is.

[mcar]

33. Long as I've been here, this shite still surprises me

[quickesst]

34. Maybe...

.... some of these are the trolls I keep hearing about. Personally, I've never labeled anyone a troll. Dumbass maybe, but not troll

[mcar]

25. I'm appalled at the "this is different" argument being made on this site

Mr. Brooks did not need to be shot. The cops had his car, his DL info. Why not let him go and get him later?

Or, here's a crazy thought: How about they call him a cab and tell him he can pick up his car keys at the station next morning? Why did he need to be cuffed and arrested at all?

[lettucebe]

28. Shooting someone in the back is never justified

[LiberalLovinLug]

29. I think there are two issues at play, although related

1 Systematic racism in the police force, backed up by statistics. Where a large disproportionate number of black men are killed by police

Which is a symptom of a larger problem,

2. Systematic and increasing licence to abuse the public, ignore civil rights. An evolution of militarizing the police, and training them to view the public (all the public) as the enemy.

The second point reality is what gives cover to the real racists in the police force, an opening for them to generate all that excess power and hatred towards the segment of the "enemy" that they respect the least.
What also comes out of this kind of training, is how fellow minority member officers also view themselves above the public at large, that includes black, Hispanic, Asian, all colour cops. Did anyone notice that two of the other cops charged now who allowed Floyd's death included two non-white officers? Same in the Eric Garner tragedy.

Even if you could magically disappear every shoot-first white racist cop, this march towards a heavily armed police force equipped like the armed forces, undergoing brain conditioning during training that separates and elevates them from their fellow citizens as some kind of elite authorities who don't have to abide by the very laws they purport to defend, is a bad thing for EVERYONE, of all races and cultures. Bad for a free society. Because guess what? After you magically dissappeard all those white racist cops? If the police were allowed to just continue on in the new normal of escalating their power and weaponry and exceptionalism indoctrination, in a few years, the police force would have filled their coffers again with a bunch more racist white cops.

And maybe this is not the time to tackle point #2. People don't want to cloud the discussion. But it seems like putting all ones energy on the quite natural, raw emotional response towards point #1, without addressing the larger point #2, is just putting a bandaid on it.

[backscatter712]

32. A Black man runs, he gets shot. A white man runs...

... shoots back at cops, leads the cops on a 12 state manhunt, shoots up an orphanage, and somehow, they manage to capture him alive.

Amazing how that happens.