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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDid the Atlanta cops trick Rayshard Brooks into driving while intoxicated?
Last edited Sun Jun 14, 2020, 07:56 PM - Edit history (1)
On the video, the officer is shown waking Brooks up, and having him get out of the vehicle. Then he talks to Brooks, who acknowledges drinking but not to excess -- and says a friend had dropped him off there. And then the officer asks Brooks to get back into the car and move it, which Brooks does.
At that point Brooks is arrested for a possible DUI. According to the first site below, being behind the wheel with the keys in the ignition and the radio turned on would have constituted being in control of the vehicle. According to the second site, a drunk person would have had to operate the vehicle in some way while under the influence. It wouldn't have been enough to charge him for sitting under-the-infuence in a car that was turned off.
I have seen no evidence that Brooks's keys were in the ignition, have you? And why did the cop ask a drunk driving suspect to drive the car? This can't be standard police procedure -- directing a suspected drunk person to drive! What if Brooks had tried to escape in the vehicle?
https://www.blacklawoffices.com/what-is-dui-in-georgia
There are many different ways that a driver can be charged with DUI in the state of Georgia.
You must be driving or in actual physical control of a moving vehicle in order to be charged. Under Georgia law, the offense can occur on public roads or on private property. Being behind the wheel with the keys in the ignition and the radio or heater on may be enough to qualify as "actual physical control."
https://www.teamdui.com/what-constitutes-operating-a-vehicle/
Operation or use of a vehicle constitutes some of the elements of a DUI, but what is meant by operating a vehicle? The common law definition of operation usually includes the actual physical handling or manipulation of the electrical or mechanical controls of a motor vehicle, including the starting of the vehicles engine. It is important to note that a vehicle does not have to be in motion to be operated. However, there must be evidence that the defendant exercised some control or manipulation over the vehicle, such as steering or braking, even if the vehicle is in motion. Evidence that the defendant was inside a moving but non-running vehicle, without additional supporting evidence, does not constitute sufficient evidence of operating the vehicle. However, it has been held that grabbing the steering wheel and stepping on the accelerator of a vehicle constitutes operating the vehicle even if another person is driving the vehicle.
The operation of a vehicle requires the showing of an intent by the defendant to set the vehicle in motion. The starting of the vehicles engine usually constitutes the showing of such an intent, and a person found alone in a non-moving vehicle whose engine is running is usually held to be operating the vehicle, even if the person was found asleep or unconscious. Even if a vehicle whose engine is running is temporarily disabled or stuck in mud or snow, the person found behind the wheel may nevertheless be found to be operating the vehicle.
Some courts, it should be noted, have held that a person found asleep behind the wheel of a non-moving vehicle whose engine was running was not operating the vehicle for purposes of a drinking-driving statute. In most cases of this sort, the defendants vehicle was found parked in a parking lot or similar area and not on or next to the highway, thus lessening both the inference that the defendant recently drove the vehicle and the intent to set the vehicle in motion. As an example, a case in Kentucky in which a defendant was found asleep behind the wheel of a vehicle whose engine was not running but whose key was in the ignition and turned to the on position, was held not to be operating the vehicle.
42bambi
(1,753 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)his case to the judge.
The shooting was not justified, but the officers handled things properly up until the struggle and shooting.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 14, 2020, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)
and THEN to arrest him?
The proper thing, if they thought he was drunk, would have been to ask him for the keys, and then to arrest him. Then an officer could have driven the car to the parking spot.
It CAN'T be proper for a police officer to direct a possibly-drunk person to get in a car and drive it.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)him out in front of everyone, handcuffed him, hauled him off, and towed his car at $300 minimum to get it out. And left the restaurant with a car in its drive-thru for a few hours.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)pnwmom
(109,011 posts)That wouldn't have been giving him a break.
obamanut2012
(26,158 posts)It is getting tiresome after lo these many years.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)How did he get there?
He was questioned at length for observation and to try to get his story, maybe an admittance. They have plenty of reason to believe he operated the vehicle while under the influence.
On edit just to be clear: THIS is in NO way justifying Brooks getting shot. NO way should he have been shot at, or killed.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)On edit: because people will continiously try to make believe you said something you didnt, in NO way was the killing of Brooks justified.
Explaining why cops had reason to believe he had been drinking DOES NOT JUSTIFY Shooting him.
Thank you.
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)You are defending muderous racist cops. Implying that this somehow justifies them. Wat that say about you?
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Dont make things up, please. Because what does THAT say about you?
Implying a thing that is not true is bullshit. And NO where have I justified anything about the poor guy getting killed.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Good luck with this though. You are fighting a storm tide.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Thanks!
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Ir that they are giving their own meaning to what you wrote. Absolutely ridiculous to make it seem that you think he deserved to be shot. I am sort of sickened that people here are saying this.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Without fear of posts getting hidden, if u dont say exactly what others think u should.
Disaffected
(4,571 posts)girl.
Sneederbunk
(14,314 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)The worse will usually be Implied. Getting frigging tiring.
Disaffected
(4,571 posts)I once asked the forum for Justice Ginsberg contact info so I could send words of support when she was ill and was accused of creepy behaviour as if I was a stalker or something.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)pnwmom
(109,011 posts)Yes, they had reason to think he might be a DUI. But the police are not supposed to ask a DUI suspect to DRIVE.
Why did they do that? Normal procedure would have been for them to arrest a drunk driving suspect, get his keys, and then have someone else move the car.
But for some reason this cop asked a drunk driving suspect to DRIVE and then immediately arrested him.
I think it was because they didn't have a strong DUI case because the vehicle was off when they found him there, and had probably been off for a while. That is one of the factors the courts consider in deciding whether a person was in control of a vehicle.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)If brooks had hit anyone/thing, cops would have been responsble.
That is a great question if they thought he was drunk up front.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)What were the police thinking, asking him to do that?
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)In the driver's seat, axleep. Unless there is someone else in the car, he had to have been driving the car.
People have been convicted of DUI when they are passed out in the car on the side of the road, at rest stops, etc. because it was impossible for the car that was in the sole possesion of the perpetrator to be where it was absent driving under the influence.
Having him move the car to a parking place doesn't alter the analysis.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)Arrest can be made for DUI or physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence.
He was in physical control of the vehicle. Sufficient for arresting for driving impaired.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)having physical control of a vehicle. Did you read it?
And if it WAS sufficient, then why did the police ask the suspected drunk driver to drive the vehicle? That is NOT standard procedure, so the only thing I could think of was they were trying to simplify the process of being able to charge him with being in control of a vehicle.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)Each state has a bit of a different definition. Whether someone is in Physical control of a vehicle while under the influence depends on the specific facts: he was passed out in the driver's seat, the vehicle was running, the keys in the ignition, he was in the driver thru lane, he could have awoken at any time and taken off. The vehicle was in working condition.
It is a standard procedure. That, or remove him from the vehicle and move it themselves.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)a suspected drunk driver to operate the vehicle.
That is anything but standard. They should have gotten the keys from him and moved it themselves.
So why did they ask a drunk driver to operate a vehicle?
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)CNN showed the video with various experts comments and all agreed it was on.
sir pball
(4,762 posts)But I know for a fact in NY, and some quick searching makes it seem the same in GA, that the court will definitely find that "actual physical control" entails you being in the driver's seat, and the keys being in the vehicle. On/off is immaterial. And given the enthusiastic crackdown on DUIs in the last 20 years, I actually do kind of doubt they needed to observe him actually drive the car to make an arrest.
That being said, it is definitely deeply abnormal, and even if I do think someone, anyone, caught DUI should absolutely be cuffed and taken in, this situation went real wrong real fast...and given that the shooter's first words after firing were "Got 'im!", I'm not inclined to take a particularly bright view of the cops in this case.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)no_hypocrisy
(46,242 posts)She and her husband had been drinking all day. Cops called. They went in the house and saw lots of empty beer cans. Arrested hubby. Frantic wife wanted to know where the police station was as that's where they were taking him. Cop told her to follow them. Not only did she hop into her truck but she improvidently yelled "Hurry up, Slowpoke!" to the cops after turning on the ignition.
They arrested her for drunk driving in her driveway with the truck still in the parked gear.
And despite our law firm's best efforts, she was convicted.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)"You can't fix stupid".
jcgoldie
(11,656 posts)I do know in Illinois if you are behind the wheel with keys in the ignition you are driving.
oasis
(49,430 posts)was pulling out all the stops to nail him.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)pnwmom
(109,011 posts)in order to follow the cop's instruction to move it.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)pnwmom
(109,011 posts)to move a vehicle?
There is no good reason.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)What am I missing?
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)who didn't seem to be following proper procedure.
Not the man who got shot in the back.
Why did the police direct a man they suspected was drunk to drive a vehicle?
brush
(53,925 posts)those who like to argue, but IMO, if it was a non-racist cop he would've taken the keys and let him walk home as Brooks requested. Or call him an Uber or let him make a call to get someone to pick him up.
Can't imagine why kindness doesn't go a long way in policing too, especially in a non-threatening, non-violent situation (non-violent until it was escalated into one).
Baclava
(12,047 posts)What if Ted Bundy was never pulled over for a minor traffic stop?
What if
brush
(53,925 posts)walk to a close by relative's home. It could've been over that easy. Now a guy is dead and that one killer cop with horrendous judgment is going to jail.
The other cop is in the clear.
Police departments have to teach restraint, de-escalation and compassion when needed instead of escalation from zero violence to 100 MPH. is seconds.
Response to brush (Reply #45)
Post removed
brush
(53,925 posts)before any resisting arrest. Cops do that for whites all the time. There was no violent crime committed. Take his keys and let him walk.
Easy peasy. Why is that such a foreign concept. Is that absent in so much on the larger culture?
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)whatever its called, ended that. The paperwork for DUI aint worth it. And, No, I dont think shooting was justified.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)And recall at least 2x driving people home.
Other asses would go through a book in a weekend, and write a ticket for biking while intoxicating.
They just do not get (or care) how much affect an arrest and even a ticket, can screw people up.
brush
(53,925 posts)restraint and compassion in police departments?
jmg257
(11,996 posts)No mistake - Plenty of good people, smart people in LE, but to see the bad, even plain evil stuff going on - what has been going on, its obvious there are plenty of sick asses who will gladly take advantage of their power, flaunt it, abuse it. Some just like f*&$ing with people cause they can.
I will talk to my BIL - a retired chief in a larger dept., and see what he thinks is doablle..and how to do it.
mercuryblues
(14,547 posts)is to delay the breathalyzer or ask you if you want to retake it. They want to make sure the BAC is high.
It happened to my niece. She was given a breathalyzer test and narrowly passed. She also passed the sobriety check. The cop told her he still could arrest her because she was so close. 20 minutes later he took it again and surprise, it was just barely over and he arrested her.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)you can say no to a 2nd test. But he told her because she scored just under the limit on the breathalyzer he could arrest her anyhow. If she wanted he would give it time to go down and take it again. That is a lie. For your 1st hour after drinking your BAC rises.
Always refuse the breathalyzer, always.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)(whether turned on or not) and he's got a B.A. level higher than that permitted by law then it's DUI, Doesn't matter if he moved the car then or not.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)The cop would be liable if the DUI suspect had injured someone while driving the vehicle at the cop's direction. So there must be some reason.
And I haven't seen any evidence that the keys were in the ignition. Have you?
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)fast food place and the driver is asleep the keys are in the ignition.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)Is that a thing they "generally" do?
It makes no sense to me.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)drray23
(7,638 posts)its a dui if you have the keys with you. You could be in your driveway with the engine off, it would still be a dui.
That's my understanding of the law too. As long as you have physical possession of the keys, you're liable for a DUI. Doesn't matter if the engine is running or not, doesn't matter if you're in the backseat.
A friend of mine, once when he knew he was too drunk to drive, put his keys behind a trash can in a parking lot, wrote a note to himself on his phone to remind him where the keys were, and then fell asleep in the backseat of his car. That was all because he was afraid that, if the cops found him drunk in a car with the keys in his pocket, they'd arrest him.
pnwmom
(109,011 posts)which is NOT proper procedure? Unless that was going to be used to nail down a DUI case.
The correct procedure would have been to ask the DUI suspect for the keys, arrest him -- and have someone else move the vehicle.
What the cop did makes no sense.
nsd
(2,406 posts)But I don't think it was a setup because, as I wrote, just being intoxicated in a car with the keys in your possession is enough (I think) for a DUI.
Turbineguy
(37,375 posts)crash in a shopping center parking lot, the Police came and said they don't do anything because it's on private property. The drivers were to settle it between themselves.
sop
(10,274 posts)pnwmom
(109,011 posts)who ended up killing him.
CaptainTruth
(6,609 posts)...with friends & tossing empty beer cans in the back of a pickup truck in the driveway.
No one got in the truck, no one started it, no one drove it. It was on private property. They just tossed empties in the back, but because the truck's owner "had control over" the truck parked in his driveway cops charged him with DUI.
He had a ton of stories like that, like DUI for drinking beer sitting on the trunk of a car in a driveway when the car was broken down & literally couldn't be driven.
Nevilledog
(51,221 posts)You do not get charged with a DUI if you're not in the car, unless there is evidence that you were just driving, whether witnesses saw the driving behavior close in time, or by admission. Under that argument, anybody drinking, anywhere, who had a car in the vicinity could be charged with a DUI. Cops could just go into a bar, find the intoxicated people, ask them if they had a car there and then arrest and charge them with DUI.
It's also an actual defense to a DUI if the car is inoperable, so long as it's inoperable before the drinking. Not a single person in the world has been convicted of a DUI for sitting and drinking on the trunk of an inoperable car.
The stories this guy is telling you are not based on the law or even common sense.
27 years as a criminal defense attorney backs up my claims.
Ms. Toad
(34,117 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)obamanut2012
(26,158 posts)That would never happen.
TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 15, 2020, 09:11 AM - Edit history (1)
I was watching an episode of a show that was a COPS ripoff, and the police came accross a man that was drunk outside his home. They start badgering the guy and asking him if the car in the driveway was his. He says yes and they start demanding he get in the car. He asks why repeatedly and asks if they are going to arrest him if he does. They say no and keep demanding he get in the car, which finally does. At that point, they arrest him for DUI. I couldn't believe it! But I swear on a stack of bibles I watched that.
Jersey Devil
(9,875 posts)The leading case in NJ was when the Supt of Schools of Teaneck NJ was seen by cops leaving a bar, obviously tipsy, crossing the street from the bar to his car on the other side with his keys in his hand. He was stopped before he even got to the car and charged with dwi. The NJ Supreme Court said he was guilty of dwi because it was clear his intent was to drive and that cops didn't have to wait for him to actually drive, that doing so would be akin to waiting for a bomb to go off before attempting to defuse it.
I even had a case where a guy pulled into a rest area on the NJ Turnpike to sleep it off after realizing he was too drunk to drive and the conviction in that case was upheld, though he was sound asleep in the car and the engine was cold and the key out of the ignition.
In the Atlanta case the car was in a lane of traffic at the Wendy's drive thru, so if he wasn't driving then how did the car get there, by magic?