General Discussion
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(1,680 posts)highplainsdem
(48,959 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,411 posts)cause some confusion.
It's all good.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,381 posts)of that bloated sack of orange $hit or his Republican enablers.
StarryNite
(9,442 posts)NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)Between Biden's messages and The Lincoln Project messages we are rockin' it in 2020!!
Response to Drunken Irishman (Original post)
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Bayard
(22,043 posts)I'd just like to see a lot more of these on TV, instead of just the web.
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)iluvtennis
(19,844 posts)July
(4,750 posts)I want to see some that are about Joe, his policies, his connection with the people, his past achievements (especially those from when he was Vice-President), his empathy, his relationships with world leaders.
He is a very much a positive candidate, particularly in contrast to Trump. A nice mix of hitting Trump hard, as Joes ads have done, and showing his own qualities is what Im hoping for.
Maybe there are some out there already, but all Ive seen are the anti-Trump ones (which should continue, IMO).
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)This election isn't about Joe and making it about Joe is what will get Trump reelected. This election is about Trump. It will be a referendum on Trump.
The only way a challenger unseats an incumbent is by turning the people against the incumbent. It can't just be voting for Joe - it has to be voting Trump out.
Reagan didn't win in 80 by selling himself. He won in 80 by asking the American people if they were better off than they were four years prior. The county answered with a resounding no.
It was the same in 1992. Bush lost because Americans saw his presidency as a failure - not because Clinton proposed transformative policy that was just so amazing that they just HAD to vote for him.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,169 posts)But as I read through and absorbed the main point, I have to agree.
Just as Trump, as the incumbent, SHOULD be concentrating on his GREAT accomplishments from his fist term. But he will also, as he has done his whole term, try and win by demonizing the opponent.
Which is double the reason to have to, regrettably in a greater sense, have to go negative back. In an ideal world, with an ideal democracy, BOTH candidates should have enough ideas and policies they believe will help the country that neither has to go negative against the other candidate to win over the voters. But this is the Trump era.
Now there still should be balance. One reason I got my hackles up with your post is that MANY of us "care about Joes's policies". Policy is the number one reason why I supported Sanders. I didn't see the kind of progressive push of ideas from Joe's camp. And so before the election I sure as hell want to hear more.
But this election is different. A good defence is a good offence as they say in sports. Kerry and Gore both made the mistake of thinking Republican lies and third party ads promoting CTs didn't have to be addressed. Ignore it and it will just go away. It didn't. And unless the Biden campaign gets ahead of the ball early and stays there, Trump will bowl him over with a slew of dishonest but powerful attack ads which will be relentless with all the Koch Brothers and other American and Russian oligarchs dark money.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)People know him. They generally know where he stands. He's not going to have to persuade Americans he's ready to be president because they already know.
The one thing I didn't mention in my first post has to do with that. In many ways, that's where the convincing happens - proving to the people you're capable of leading. They just need to see you as president.
In 1980, Carter was very effective early on at painting Reagan as an extremist not fit for the office. In fact, Carter's team wanted to run against Reagan! He was perceived as a far-right loon that had little mainstream appeal but Reagan got up there and just looked competent enough and the narrative shifted. He looked bigger than Carter. More presidential. Of course, then he spent the whole debate talking about how badly things had gotten and how he was going to fix it and that we could not afford four more years of the same game.
It worked.
In 1992, Clinton needed to convince the public he could be president. It took a lot of convincing, too, because, for a time in early 1992, he was third behind Perot and Bush. But eventually, Americans accepted that he could do the job and he won.
In an election where you're the challenger, your winning is basically going to come down to whether or not you can convince the American people you're capable of doing a better job than the incumbent. In some elections, the odds are stacked against you. There was no question that Mondale was qualified to be president. There was no question Dole was qualified to be president. But neither were going to be president because the incumbent was doing well in America's eyes. They couldn't do better, no matter how much policy the candidate threw out to the voters.
In 2004, it was pretty similar. People probably thought Kerry could be president but they weren't convinced he'd be a better one than Bush (and the same in 2012 with Romney and Obama).
Biden's proven he can be president. He's so well known that it isn't really a question. The question is whether he'll be a better president than Trump. The unique spot is that, unlike Clinton or Reagan, Biden doesn't have to both prove he's capable of doing the job and doing it better than the incumbent, he just has to prove he's better.
But unlike Mondale or Dole or Kerry or Romney, he's running against an incumbent who is very unpopular. It's also why he's likely led in most every poll since the start if the year.
Biden needs to show competency and compassion. That's how he wins in November.
July
(4,750 posts)I still think it would help Joe to show himself as the mensch he appears to be, as well as in situations hes experienced as Vice-President. Both would put him in stark contrast to Trump (likeable, experienced, competent vs. nasty, unprepared, and stupid). As I said before, Id like him to keep hammering at Trump.
Whoevers creating his ads has done a good job of showing Trump as, alternately, either dangerous or bumbling. And Id love to see a John Oliver style mocking piece, showing Trump at his most foolish (walking past his limo, toilet paper on his shoe, etc.).
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Biden doesn't need to be biographical at this point. He needs to do exactly what Obama did to Mitt Romney in 2012: spend the summer months hammering the shit out his opponent. The difference is that Romney was still relatively unknown, so, that was his introduction (the Bain ads), as was the Swift Boat ads for Kerry in 2004.
So, they aren't likely to be as effective.
But where candidates struggle is trying to define themselves when, in reality, Americans, despite saying they don't, move on negative ads. They're the single-most effective ads you can run.
The fact is, Trump spent most his ads in 2016 attacking Hillary's character. Not her politics.
It worked, unfortunately.
Biden will be able to contrast himself with Trump later. But right now he needs to hammer Trump to a pulp because, as much as elections aren't decided until after Labor Day, conventional thought suggests elections start solidifying in the summer, as does the mood of the country. If Biden can set the narrative that America is complete and total chaos because of Trump, even if there's calm that returns in the fall, and economic improvement, the results will be baked into the cake already.
Remember this more than anything: In 1992, the US pulled out of recession, and received some rosy economic numbers, just before the election. But it didn't matter. Despite unemployment going down leading up to the election, and October having the best jobs report of the year (180,000), Bush still lost in an electoral landslide. Why? Because the perception was already set. Unemployment hit its peak in June, 1992 during that early 90s recession and that's all anyone could remember.
That's what Biden is doing right now. He's setting the narrative.
120,000 dead.
30 million unemployed.
A nation in chaos.
Once that perception is set, then Biden can go in as the guy who's ready to lead.
ProfessorGAC
(64,988 posts)...I'd do so.
Attack, attack, attack!
I'm all in on that!
Hits PINO with his own weapon.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Hekate
(90,627 posts)...make ads about "policy," Repubs go for the emotions and expertly frame each point. They get their voters out to the polls on select issues. And they win.
It's June 2020 and there are no more Democratic primaries. That's over. We're down to Joe Biden, who is a known quantity, and the majority of Dem voters chose him.
The other choice is Donald Trump, not Pete Buttegieg or Elizabeth Warren. There are no more fine points of policy to discuss.
Policy papers are all on Joe's website in excruciating detail. Enjoy. Meanwhile, just remind people why it's crucial for them to vote Dem -- literally life and death.
JI7
(89,244 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And have been successful. It's about time people finally realized votes arent cast over policy papers.
SergeStorms
(19,192 posts)and I approve that Joe Biden approves this message!
RussellCattle
(1,535 posts)....the comments on this post? Way, way more than usual.
Hekate
(90,627 posts)...by your name.
I have not seen an ad in years.
Cha
(297,104 posts)Jersey Devlin
(85 posts)June 15, 2020
Upthevibe
(8,034 posts)Thank you for posting...
crickets
(25,960 posts)Cha
(297,104 posts)Blue Owl
(50,347 posts)n/t
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)We need to ask voters whether they are ok with living through four more years of a Trump administration. I believe the overwhelming answe is No.
meadowlander
(4,394 posts)to interfere with the election doesn't even make the highlight reel.
FFS, Red America, what more do you need?
sellitman
(11,606 posts)Pound it home. Don't let up. Send this monster packing and to jail.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)yes!