Police Investigating Shooting Inside Seattle's 'No Cop,' CHAZ Zone

[soothsayer]

What fresh hell is this?

https://www.newsweek.com/police-investigating-shooting-inside-seattles-no-cop-chaz-zone-1512330

Snip

At least two people were shot and one was killed inside Seattle's Capitol Hill Organized Protest (CHOP) area early Saturday morning, and police say they are investigating despite it being in a "no-cop" zone of the city.

Videos recorded Saturday morning show volunteer medics scrambling to help the purported victims after Seattle Police Department radio dispatchers received multiple reports of three to six gunshots around 2:20 a.m. People involved in the incident were seen fleeing the scene north from 10th Avenue and East Pine street in the city's Capitol Hill autonomous protest zone, also called CHAZ. Seattle Police abandoned the closest East Precinct building on June 8th after days of confrontations with protesters in the wake of George Floyd's death while in the custody of Minneapolis police.

[soothsayer]

1. More

https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/06/one-reported-dead-one-wounded-in-overnight-capitol-hill-protest-zone-shooting/

Snip

One reported dead, one wounded in overnight Capitol Hill protest zone shooting — UPDATE

One victim was reported undergoing CPR in front of the Rancho Bravo restaurant at 10th and Pine before he was transported to Harborview by the protest camp medical volunteers. According to Seattle Police radio updates the man was dead when he arrived at Harborview. Livestreams from the camp in the wake of the shooting also showed a video of an announcement of the man’s death to the protest camp.

A second victim was reported with a gunshot wound to the arm and chest. Seattle Fire was called to treat the victim but they too were driven by private vehicle to Harborview. We do not have more information on the second victim’s condition.

...

UPDATE: A security employee working in the area reported the shooter had been in a black SUV that arrived in the area on E Pine. A 911 caller told police a man carried a rifle out of the SUV before gunfire erupted, according to East Precinct radio updates. The man who was killed was hit by multiple shots on the southwest corner of E Pine in front of the Odd Fellows building. Camp security was reported following the suspect after the shooting. There have been no reported arrests by police.

[yardwork]

3. I hope they catch the shooter.

[soothsayer]

4. Yes, and I hope the police don't slow walk it

[uponit7771]

8. Sounds like a MAGAt

[hack89]

10. Capitol Hill is a high crime area

Has been for years. Can’t imagine it is any better now - I would suspect local criminals are fighting for territory.

[soothsayer]

2. Naturally I suspect Trump is behind this

So he can decry anarchy at coronapaloser, but a death? Ugh.

[jmg257]

5. Surprised the cops showed up, and were allowed to try to help.

Maybe they'll turn it over to the community response team?

Very sad people were shot - hope someone catches the shooter, find out what his issue was.

"It's not a slogan. It's not even a warning," Grayson said. "I'm letting people know what comes next."
"If the Seattle Police Department turns in their badges, we'll have made a move forward," Grayson said.

Its good everyone is working together to keep people safe!

[jmg257]

7. Hey look - an empty response! "NO COP zone" - what's so hard to understand?

Last edited Sat Jun 20, 2020, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Apparently they feel safer without them.

Keeping folks safe is a near-constant thought for CHOP’s 20-plus volunteer medics, including one who parades around in a full suit of medieval armor. They’ve set up a command center on the outside tables of a popular Mexican restaurant, where Frank helps coordinate their actions.

...

Any situations they’ve witnessed, including one where someone wielded a knife, have all been de-escalated by people in the vicinity. “It’s the opposite of violent,” says Nim.

He cited demands including defunding the police, funding community safety and freeing all protesters.

I visited the CHOP, a six-block stretch of Seattle’s Capitol Hill neighborhood that community members have declared a “police-free” zone, twice in the first week after it came into being.

On edit: glad to see they are working together to keep people safe. Though it sounds like their response didn't go smoothly.

Arriving police reported encountering hostile crowds after a large force assembled on the edge of the protest zone and entered the area on E Pine to secure the victim

[jmg257]

9. Police kept from responding to scene of murder.

CHOP medics take victims to hospital.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/20/us/seattle-capitol-hill-chop-chaz-shooting/index.html

Officers attempted to locate a shooting victim but were met by a violent crowd that prevented officers safe access to the victims," the statement reads.

"Homicide detectives responded and are conducting a thorough investigation, despite the challenges presented by the circumstances," the police statement says.

That video shows at least eight officers entering the area, some carrying shields, as protesters yell at them. An officer can be heard saying, "Please move out of the way so we can get to the victim. All we are trying to do is get to the victim and provide them aid."

[PTWB]

11. This is the byproduct of systemic police brutality and racism

The police should all resign and let us create new institutions, properly staffed, trained, equipped and focused on the community and run entirely under civilian oversight.

We need to walk away from the entire concept of American law enforcement and start from scratch.

[jmg257]

12. All the police arent bad. Reform is a big step, and could involve experienced cops

Moving over?

Hmmm....Maybe let them start over, if acceptable?

[PTWB]

13. No, pretty much all the police are bad.

While it is true that a very small percentage of police plant evidence, beat suspects, shoot unarmed black men or engage in overt racism... what is also true is that all the 'good apples' sit around and protect those bad ones. That makes them just as evil.

Look at the entire fucking SWAT team in Buffalo, NY that resigned in solidarity with the officers who pushed the old man down.

Nope, ALL the police have to go. Completely eliminate the concept of policing in America. Fire every last officer, eliminate police departments entirely and create a new system that is community oriented and led by civilians.

[jmg257]

14. No pretty much not. LOTS of PDs in this country.

Lots of good cops.

Lots of good depts. good base to start reform without fucking everything up.

[PTWB]

15. Really?

So when those 'good cops' fail to police the bad cops, are they still 'good cops' in your mind?

When they turn the blind eye when the bad apple plants evidence, or beats a young black man, are they still 'good cops' even though they didn't engage in those same activities?

No, we need to fire every single officer in the country and come up with an entirely new law enforcement system that is free from the systemic abuses in our current 'justice' system.

[jmg257]

16. Really. Good cops I know are quite the opposite of those you sight.

Your experience clealry different, but i knew plenty, worked with plenty, related to plenty.
Knew a few assholes too.

Ill gladly keep all the good ones, thanks. Especially the chiefs who did fight to get rid of dicks. Much smarter then trying to start all over from scratch.

[PTWB]

18. I find that hard to believe.

How did they keep their jobs if they were turning in bad cops every time they were confronted with them?

[jmg257]

21. Ah well. They were chiefs in smallish city/towns - no bullshit around here.

The few bad cops that there are don’t last. YOU put up with racist shit, malfeasance etc , YOU don’t last.

Our dept was rural, but major crossroads- not a lot of planting evidence or racist BS. You do
Your job, you do it right, and you start again the next day.

assholes were the exception - caused waves and were removed. The sergeants always said the shit floated to the top. Easy to scrape off.

[PTWB]

22. That may be how they spin it for you

And it may be easier for you to believe it is true... but it isn’t.

If you have 1 bad cop and 999 good cops who don’t arrest that bad cop, you have 1000 bad cops.

[jmg257]

24. I worked there. Saw it for myself. My BIL chief. My best friend Chief.

No spin needed, in various depts I am
Quite familiar with.

Watched the stress as officers/chiefs put down bullshit, dealt with problem cop, dealt with lies and stupid media conspiracies and knew All about ‘social leader’ out-right bullshit. (See tawana brawly)

Sorry youre wrong in SO many cases- but no worries, you’re quite biased and that’s ok.

[PTWB]

25. Making sense now...

You have a brother in law chief, a best friend chief, and we’re formerly employed by the police department ... but I’m the biased one?

[jmg257]

26. Yep bias vs reality. Your support of rioters and looters

As ‘positive reminders to the rich of the Continued oppression & importance of lives’ Shows the quite bias positions you hold.

My actions, and my personal experience are the reality. And Shows clearly how ignorant your bias is that ‘every cop is a bad cop’.



Is ok, really. There’ll will be some change for the good, and the good cops will remain, and unfortunately some of
The assholes.

[PTWB]

27. Your acknowledgement of the existence of bad cops is essentially conceding that I'm right

The very fact that bad cops exist and don’t immediately get turned in so they can be arrested, fired or both, is acknowledgement that there aren’t good cops.

A good cop who fails to turn in a bad cop, is a bad cop himself.

[jmg257]

30. I never argued with those points. I argued that there are

LOTS of good cops, including those who do what they need to to get rid of the bad cops, while those in charge do the same AND also deal with the all
The lying bullshit the media and social leaders come up with.

I KNOW this.


So, I guess in some ways we agree!

[PTWB]

34. Lots of good ones..

You’re simply not being honest. Maybe not with yourself.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/new-york-state-57-police-resign-to-support-officers-fired-for-shoving-75-year-old

New York state: 57 police resign from team to support officers suspended for shoving 75-year-old

Police culture is too badly broken to salvage. Not only did these guys not do the right thing, the entire unit resigned to do the WRONG thing.

You can crow about your fairy tale experience but the reality is, good cops aren’t reporting bad cops and are therefor bad cops themselves.

Fuck, man, look at those idiots standing around watching George Floyd get murdered. They could have intervened but they didn’t. And nothing would have happened if not for cell video. Those were good cops... until they weren’t.

You can try to whitewash it all you want but the system needs to be completely scrapped and rebuilt. And every single cop needs to go.

[jmg257]

37. Again - I am telling you the truth of my experience.

Last edited Sun Jun 21, 2020, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

It isn’t Buffalo and it isn’t NYPD or MN or wherever. (Although I did gather with NYPD on Occasions - usually cop funerals - pretty crazy!)

You can talk all you want About what you read but I KNOW otherwise.

Anecdotes are interesting examples, and I AGREE bad cops exist and really bad as the cases
Like George Floyd clearly shows.

But I also KNOW there are plenty of good cops doing their job the right way day in day out.

And were making sure those beneath them did the same.


All while, on numerous occasions, dumb-asses spread (& print) lies and conspiracies and start riots because THEY say how bad cop are.

On November 28, 1987, Brawley was found in a trash bag. She had racial slurs written on her body and was covered in feces. She accused four white men of raping her. The charges received widespread national attention because of her age (15), the persons accused (including police officers and a prosecuting attorney), and the state in which Brawley was found after the alleged rape. Brawley's advisers Al Sharpton, Alton H. Maddox and C. Vernon Mason also helped the case to gain prominence.[3]

After hearing evidence, a grand jury concluded in October 1988 that Brawley had not been the victim of a forcible sexual assault, and that she herself may have created the appearance of such an attack.[2][4] Steven Pagones, the New York prosecutor whom Brawley had accused of as one of her assailants, later successfully sued Brawley, and her three advisers, for defamation.[4]

What is known is that City Councilman-at-large Omari Shakur was outside of the hospital where officers and the suspect were all reportedly taken, Montefiore St. Luke’s Cornwall Hospital, less than two hours after the incident occurred stirring the pot and condemning police before literally any type of investigation could even be started.

Shand admitted he forcibly detained Filiberti in his car after offering her a ride on March 19, 2011, then raped her, drowned her and left her body in a tributary of Crum Elbow Creek in a park in the Greentree Park section of Hyde Park. Filiberti's father, John, 48, committed suicide last September, six months after his daughter was killed.

During the 5 month investigation, all kinds of stories were flying through the close-knit community. They prompted unusual public denials of involvement from rumored suspects, including Filiberti’s boyfriend and a Town of Hyde Park police officer.

[Tipperary]

28. Who will you call when someone breaks into your house?

Just curious.

[PTWB]

29. Read #19

[Tipperary]

46. Oh, no one will break into homes anymore?

[MoonlitKnight]

51. They just file a report

And do nothing else.

[sarisataka]

17. How will murders

Such as the one in the OP be handled when all police are fired and the concept of policing is eliminated?

It is hard to miss the irony of some posts above calling for the police to quickly apprehend the person(s) who committed a crime in the 'no cop's autonomous zone

[PTWB]

19. The crime rate will go down significantly

But one of the biggest things we can do is divide police powers amongst many smaller, separate governmental entities.

Have a small group of investigators that work for the local prosecutors office in charge of investigating crime (similar to what detectives do now).

Create a state-level group whose sole function is to apprehend wanted criminals but other than that have no enforcement interactions with the community.

Create a new first responder, at the state level, that does not take any enforcement action / arrest except in the cases of violence contemporaneous with the calls for service.

Give municipalities / counties a traffic enforcement division that has authority to issue traffic citations but no arrest powers.

Create community based crime reporting locations where folks can report local, non-violent crimes that will then be referred to the aforementioned investigators at the prosecutors office.

By splitting up all these police duties into smaller, hyper-focused organizations, we will minimize the negative encounters that police have on the lives of minorities.

Invest the billions in savings by removing police into addiction recovery programs, social safety net programs and mental health care.

While we are at it we should model our prison system after highly successful countries like Norway.

[sarisataka]

35. I have seen the prediction that crime will drastically drop

however it seems to be based more on hope and bias than any empirical data.

Improving the programs you mention would likely improve crime in certain areas, but those are mainly nuisance and petty crimes. More serious crimes often have other motivating factors which would remain unaffected by improving those programs.

Making enforcement and investigation of crime a state level mandate would place certain efficiencies into the system. On the other hand it sacrifices local connections and response.

The adage "when seconds count, the police are minutes away" would become "when seconds count, the state first responders are hours away"

[hack89]

20. How will civilian non-cops deal with violent criminals?

There are too many guns in America.

[Codeine]

31. That ignores the fact

that a significant portion of any population is absolute human garbage, prone to violence and eager to victimize. We don’t need to eliminate the police, we need to train and equip them differently and hold them to a higher standard.

[PTWB]

32. No, we need to eliminate them and split their duties amongst smaller agencies

there is no reason we should keep all of a cop’s duties under one umbrella. The guy who is out there kicking in doors and serving search warrants shouldn’t be the same guy you call if someone stole your TV or if your husband is beating you.

We need to change the entire law enforcement system otherwise we will never fix its inherent injustice and racism. It’s built right in to the current system.

Split their duties. Separate the folks who take crime reports from the folks who take enforcement action. Severely cut the budgets of all police and invest that money in social programs, addiction treatment and mental health services.

Get rid of long prison sentences and for profit prisons. Take Norway’s model where prisons are about rehabilitation completely and the max sentence is 21 years. Their prison system is what we should model lits after - only we should go even further.

[Codeine]

33. I'm not opposed to your first recommendations.

The last few are silly. There is no such thing as rehabilitation. It’s a naive myth built on magical thinking and hearty sprinklings of fairy dust.

Garbage people are garbage people, and they will forever be such. Bad, violent people do not change. Bad, violent people do not improve. Victimizers will forever victimize.

[PTWB]

36. That's a disgusting point of view. I'm sorry you've taken the right wing bait there.

Rehabilitation absolutely is possible.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12

In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014.
That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.

On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.

To suggest that rehabilitation isn’t possible, or that “garbage people are garbage” is a racist dog whistle.

[Codeine]

38. I come from a family of garbage people. All white.

Nothing racist about accepting that some people are just bad. Pretending they’ll magically stop being who they are makes no sense. You can’t rehabilitate a John Wayne Gacy or a Jeffery Epstein. Victimizers gonna victimize.

That said, I agree with your decentralization concepts. Those look to be logical and workable. This is the real world; none of us are going to agree on everything.

[PTWB]

40. Do you think we have that many more "garbage people" as a percentage?

~700 out of 100k Americans are incarcerated.
~70 out of 100k Norwegians are incarcerated.

I don’t think it’s because we are 10 times as likely be be bas people. No, it’s the entire system.

[Codeine]

44. Oh god no.

Most incarceration is completely absurd. People are caged because they use banned substances that only hurt themselves or they engage in petty property-based crimes.

But some people are without value and don’t need to be part of decent human society. They aren’t going to get better in a year, or 21 years. They need to be separated from the rest of us, forever. The violent ending of a human life or sexual abuse of the helpless are not, in my view, things that can be cleansed. Those behaviors warrant permanent incarceration.

As a percentage? Probably a lot closer to that of Norway. Humans are humans across the board.

I have no issue with the idea that we have caged entirely too many for entirely the wrong reasons, only with the notion that everyone should be allowed freedom after 21 years, as you asserted above.

[EllieBC]

41. We let lots of human garbage put up here.

The police issue warnings that sex offenders and child molesters are being released and then they re-offend and rinse and repeat. But hey what’s another rape victim as long as you feel good playing make believe with rehabilitation, right? It’s not you so it’s ok, right?

[PTWB]

43. Think of how many of those victims would never have been abused

If we invested our money in mental health, addiction treatment and social programs. Think of how many would never have been abused if we rehabilitated our criminals instead of punished and released them.

If you truly care about victims you’ll admit our system doesn’t work and recognize that Norway’s does.

[EllieBC]

45. Psychiatrists and psychologists

have long said child predators and often rapists cannot be rehabilitated.

Just like with the destroyed neighborhoods and burned out cars you’re always quick to volunteer everyone else for your cause.

[PTWB]

48. Explain why other countries are able to rehabilitate their prisoners

[EllieBC]

49. Oh they believe pedos and sex offenders can be rehabilitated?

Again so tired of you thinking you have the right to volunteer others to be victims of your utopia.

[PTWB]

52. You do realize you're creating more victims, don't you?

You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing me of doing.

Hell, you said it yourself. The pedophiles get released from our punishment system, they’re not rehabilitated and they offend again. Our system - the system you’re supporting! - creates more victims.

But for some reason you would rather bash me than actually work on solutions to the problem and, in doing so, reduce the number of victims of sexual violence.

[EllieBC]

53. Keep them in jail.

There’s no reason to let a pedo out. Ever.

[Tipperary]

47. You are actually comparing a stolen tv to domestic abuse?

Wow, got it.

[PTWB]

50. WOW!!

I have never seen such a transparent attempt to score a point in an argument. I know you don’t like me but that’s no excuse to try to use domestic violence victims to prop up your argument. Frankly I find it disgusting.

I very clearly did NOT compare those crimes. I very clearly and simply stated that police respond to multiple types of crimes, such as domestic violence and theft. I said that enforcers should not be the ones responding to take reports.

Stating a fact - that police respond to multiple types of crimes - is not comparing them. That you would even suggest so shows me all I need to know about you and the low regard you hold victims of domestic violence.

Honestly I’m sickened.

[Dr. Strange]

23. Raz Simone is getting roasted on Twitter.

Link to tweet

Raz (member of the Leopards Eating Peoples Faces party) promises safety for the EMTs in the CHAZ if they'll go offer medical services to people who were shot in the safety of the CHAZ.

[EllieBC]

39. It's standard protocol

for EMTs to wait for police to secure an area. Maybe someday Raz will understand that.

[Codeine]

42. Anarchy is great until it isn't.

I can admire the heartfelt idealism while lamenting the inevitable failure of this sort of experiment.

[ChazII]

54. +1 n/t