General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHere's a supposed head count for the rally....
Jester Actual is trustworthy,IMHO..I've been following his treats for over a year.
Link to tweet
mahina
(17,646 posts)Good info though.
I worry that the ticket action will rebound on us, but it was effective.
It's so upside down that the opposite outcome than the President wants is going to save lives in that area.
Thanks to the young people who got tickets. They may not have done it to save lives but that's the result.
That and a piqued giant reptile.
Nevilledog
(51,080 posts)No matter how many fake ticket requests...... He couldn't get 19k to show up! That has nothing to do with how many requests were made.
mahina
(17,646 posts)That it wasnt Joes idea wont matter.
Of course with the virus Joe wont be holding rallies like this anyway because he cares if we live or not.
Nevilledog
(51,080 posts)And never in a million years would you see Biden's campaign staff spouting the bullshit the trump campaign did.
And it wouldn't be during a pandemic.
mahina
(17,646 posts)It must be a just war in cause and in execution.
I guess you disagree with me and my buddy St Augustine.
Cheers.
Nevilledog
(51,080 posts)P.S. Who's St. Augustine?
Augustine: Just War
Augustine is noted in history as the founder of Just War Theory in the Western tradition (The Islamic world has it's own tradition of Just War Theory based on the Koran). This is a body of thought that seeks to provide guidelines for when it is justified for one nation to wage war on another. These guidelines also seek to clarify what sorts of conduct are morally acceptable within war.
One popular theory of justice in war is simply Might is Right. Whosoever has the greater power is able to dominate others, and so is in the position to determine what is just and unjust. An early philosophical statement of this position is given by Thrasymachus in Plato's Republic. He says that "justice is the interest of the stronger." Numerous nations have followed this policy, even though few admit it. Imagine a nation that was so powerful that no other nation could stand as a credible threat. Perhaps this nation had great weapons of total destruction as well as powerful military forces to enforce policies. Such a nation would seek to protect its status as the primary might by attacking any other nation that came close to its military power. Of course, such a nation would issue proclamations of it's virtue and benevolence and inherent peacefulness. Yet, let another power emerge that posed even a remote threat to its hegemony, and that other power would be attacked and dismantled. Such a nation would operate on the Might is Right principle.
Augustine lived in the era when Rome had lost its control of the world and was quickly falling to other powers. The question of moral values in war were immanent for him. Augustine identified two aspects of war that required moral justification and guidelines:
-The right to go to war (Jus Ad Bellum)
-The right sorts of conduct in war (Jus In Bello)
The right to go to war concerns the justification that a nation must give in order for it to have a moral right to wage war on another. Augustine laid the basis for four main criteria:
1. Just Authority - is the decision to go to war based on a legitimate political and legal process?
2. Just Cause - has a wrong been committed to which war is the appropriate response?
3. Right Intention - is the response proportional to the cause? i.e. is the war action limited to righting the wrong, and no further. When people speak of "mission creep," this condition is the relevant concern.
4. Last Resort - has every other means of righting the wrong been attempted sincerely so that no other option but war remains?
The conduct of war is clearly a matter of moral concern. Even when a nation is justified in waging war on another, there are moral limits on what it may do in prosecuting the war. Defining and enforcing such limits has been a long a concern for international agreement and law.
1. Proportionality - The proportionality of the use of force in a war. The degree of allowable force used in the war must be measured against the force required to correct the Just cause and limited by Just Intention (see Jus Ad Bellum).
2. Discrimination -The combatants discriminate between combatants and noncombatants. Innocent, nonmilitary people should never be made the target of attacks.
3. Responsibility - A country is not responsible for unexpected side effects of its military activity as long as the following three conditions are met:
(a) The action must carry the intention to produce good consequences.
(b) The bad effects were not intended.
(c) The good of the war must outweigh the damage done by it.
More resources on the criteria and case studies of just war theory are available at the Just War Theory website (see Resources at the left).
These criteria have been revised and expanded, notably by Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century. Since war is a constant human condition, the concerns for it's moral constraint are ever important. Consider how the criteria of Just War may be applied to the present. Clearly an insightful philosopher writing almost 1,600 years ago speaks to matters that are relevant to us now and will be relevant to us for some time. Philosophy is a living and present concern, even when it speaks to us from the distant past.
End of this Philosopher's Portrait of Augustine.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)I always wondered, off and on. It was not something they taught in my school years.
mahina
(17,646 posts)I didnt learn about the just war theory until I started studying peace. I gleaned a few key points that is like to share here if you dont mind.
One was from a prof of organizing. He used this book, Organizing for Social Change, and its a great resource. http://www.midwestacademy.com/manual/
Heres another nugget. Remember Margaret Meade, the anthropologist? She thrashed the trope that we are wired for war, that its just part of our biology and so, unavoidable. Not at all.
She said all we must do to disprove that idea is find one human society without war. She did.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/margaret-meads-war-theory-kicks-butt-of-neo-darwinian-and-malthusian-models/
She said we should be noted as a species for our bent toward cooperation and helping each other.
How about that?
Please also check the work of Hawaiis son Gene Sharp. I recommend all but From Dictatorship to Democracy and the 198 Methods of Nonviolent Resistance are quick and useful. https://www.aeinstein.org/
If you can get your hands on the video documentary A Force More Powerful - Nonviolent Resistance
Its on YouTube often but briefly so instead of adding a link that will change later Ill ask you to find it. Part II is my favorite but the first is foundational.
Rosa Parks didnt just happen to decide to remain seated that day on a whim. She had nonviolent resistance training. This was a result of community organizing.
When people decide they want to be free there is nothing that can stop them
Desmond Tutu
Glad to strengthen our connection. Aloha.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)I'm an old community organizer from way back in the day.
I have been feeling very pessimistic about it all of late, esp. the here we go again cycle of increasing right wing Gov. across the globe.
Your outlook is helpful....thank you.
mahina
(17,646 posts)Forgiving the pedantic streak.
Ive spent a chunk of my day trying to talk down a friend who is intelligent, whom I respect and really like so much, and now also find her to be gullible.
Long story short is shes very sure that the primary was stolen from Bernie Sanders and that the United Nations monitored the primary and found a huge swing from exit polls to voting data of 15% in California.
Wild assertions without evidence swallowed whole are amazingly durable.
Its got me pretty down. Its a freaking tough haul this go round. I think you have every reason to feel that way.
Cheers Dixiegrrl.
/Disclosure I supported Bernie last time but when Hillary won I was really happy to volunteer for her and I can say I did everything I could for her candidacy.
tavernier
(12,380 posts)mahina
(17,646 posts)He wouldnt stoop to dividing us by race. Theres almost nothing the two have in common. One is a good man and a leader and the other is a plague on two feet.
Its still true that we dont have to make stuff up to defeat their ideas, and that it would be foolish to do so.
When you have a thousand strong arguments why would anyone reach for a weak and disprovable one?
Cha
(297,154 posts)I don't know where the "10,000" came from?
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Was it trump or Parscale or....
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)And how many wives objected to bring back the virus to the family.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)He did get 11 people to turn up.
Nevilledog
(51,080 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)5,000 new cases... in the next two weeks.
malaise
(268,945 posts)fucking flop
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)His tie was undone, his shirt collar open, and he looked gutted.
It was lovely.