General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGET OVER the idea that the KIDS spoiled Trump's rally! It couldn't have happened like that.
Sam Stein points out the logical fact that..
Tickets were free and unlimited.
Anyone who wanted one or more could get tickets.
Therefore, the kids' prank did not prevent anyone from being there.
The truth is............only 6000 plus people WANTED TO BE THERE.
NYT has prompted a false narrative (kids kept crowds away) that Trump campaign must be crowing about today.
The truth is HE COULDN"T DRAW A CROWD OF 7,000
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DonaldsRump
(7,715 posts)The prank is funny, but the dismal turnout is due to Trump's dismal support, as well as people fearing getting infected. Both of these issues are attributable solely to Trump and his "mal"-administration that has wrecked everything for us.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)they made it look like a "yuge" crowd which made tRumpers brag about it, millions wanted to show up. any help to defeat the fascists is welcome.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Orange Hitler and his million moron cult following can go pound sand up their asses.
They disgust me.
ProfessorGAC
(64,998 posts)I think the prank is overblown.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)I don't like the media giving Trump any excuses for the low turnout.
stopdiggin
(11,296 posts)here's the real headline running in the NYT today --
Did a successful prank inflate attendance expectations for President Trumps rally in Tulsa, Okla.?
That's a long, long way from "providing cover" or excuses for the Trump operation.
The real story here .. as anyone who is following the story would understand .. is that the Zoomers helped the Trump campaign to mightily embarrass themselves. And good on them!
The NYT simply reported on that. No cover, no claims, no excuses.
We could try to be a little more accurate when we're doing our outrage?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,328 posts)erronis
(15,241 posts)I'm a bit of a web/software guru too (still active in the field after 50 years), but I sure as shit shouldn't be asked for advice on how to run a corrupt president's media campaign.
questionseverything
(9,651 posts)embarrassed him and his admin by thinking 100,000 peops are showing up and they only get 6000
I told my granddaughter to tell gen z,keep it up,get under his skin, the more off balance he is the better off we are
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Gonna be there. Maybe others felt the same?
I hate waiting 5 min for dinner, the hell with a million people at a stupid speech, in a pandemic.
VMA131Marine
(4,138 posts)that the Trump campaign thought they were getting data from 1 million potential Trump voters. In reality, that data is mostly useless because people were creating email accounts just to register for tickets multiple times. And, obviously, the massive number of registrations set expectations for a massive overflow crowd that didnt materialise.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)This the prank.
Some Magats started lining up on Thursday in order to get inside the venue. Only 6,200-6,600 showed up. These were the die-hard Trumpasses and some of them may die hard as a result of the rabid support.
Reader Rabbit
(2,624 posts)...the prank convinced a mess of Trump-humpers that they had to line up days early if they wanted to get a seat, as well as prompting the campaign to hubristically brag about their yuuuuuge numbers.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,582 posts)nor anyone who is a Trump supporter nor RW media whore -- not a single one of them -- has a child who is active on Tik Tok who would have bragged to their parent about the prank. And that person would have ignored it and not passed the information to someone who could use it, like Pascale?
My bet is on the Russians. They have already demonstrated a capability for pulling off such a stunt. It would be great if someone did some investigating to determine the actual source of the ticket requests.
Regardless of that, Fat Donnie had so pumped himself up that he believed his own shit. It's like when the crying baby Trump blimp was slashed by a miscreant and it revealed there was nothing inside but helium. Even a piñata has something of value (candy!) inside.
relayerbob
(6,544 posts)Thekaspervote
(32,755 posts)Give them some credit!!
yaesu
(8,020 posts)I mean Stein should be going after the fascists, not the kids.
dreamland
(964 posts)Thekaspervote
(32,755 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)people from getting in the building and scaring people away (another one of their excuses). I didn't watch the event, but I did check out some of the coverage and the only person I saw was the lone woman in the "I can't breathe" T-shirt, who was carted away by the cops.
I did not see any other protesters, but I may have just missed them. Is there any truth to that rumor?
Mariana
(14,854 posts)If there were ANY evidence of this, it would be plastered everywhere. But, we have no pictures and no video of this happening. There's nothing in the news stories about the rally or the protests outside indicate that anyone was prevented from entering by protesters. The Trump campaign lied.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Thanks for confirming, Mariana.
There were multiple entrances. Protesters had one partially blocked for about 15-30 minutes a few hours before it began when they were first letting people in. Police moved them along, they moved on without incident and that was it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I will be seeing my family for the first time since Christmas over the 4th of July and just wanted to make sure I was armed with the facts!
erronis
(15,241 posts)a knowing smile may be the best.
Stupid loves stupid.
They won't learn until a cataclysmic event changes their lives completely. It may be too late.
onetexan
(13,036 posts)high ticket order, prompting the staff to add the overflow venue. How else can you explain the high ticket order? I also believe that many of the Idiot's supporters signed up but did not show up, either due to covid or because they had something better to do. He no longer has the pull he did in 2016 with his base.
shanti
(21,675 posts)he's DONE.
samnsara
(17,619 posts)..sad...
MiniMe
(21,714 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)Where the virus comes blowing down the plains 🎶
erronis
(15,241 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)that I sincerely hope that you and your loved ones never get infected with covid, but with 6200 possible spreaders, the virus may spread throughout the plains
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)but, it means that 13,000 kids got tickets.
lame54
(35,285 posts)True they did not effect the crowd size
They fueled the constant bragging about it before hand which is the real failure
*perfect* way to get under his skin
Raised his expectations - he went in and got owned.
melman
(7,681 posts)Link to tweet
These crowds aren't ever really an 'organic' thing. They don't just show up there.
There's a lot of outreach and promo done...outreach and promo they felt they didn't have to do because the tik-tok teens convinced them there were a million tickets sold. And in the process exposed the scam of the Trump rally crowds.
Double win for the tik-tok teens!
erronis
(15,241 posts)edhopper
(33,572 posts)Stein misses the point.
uncle ray
(3,156 posts)OnDoutside
(19,953 posts)pamela
(3,469 posts)matt819
(10,749 posts)The campaign announced they had a million reservations. This may have been at least partly because of the trolling And of course only the true believers showed up
Voltaire2
(13,014 posts)The point is that these scary kpop stans flooded the online ticket system with literally more than a million reservations, and fooled the Trump campaign into bragging about the huge numbers that were going to attend. So much so that they also booked an overflow site.
The humiliating failure last night might well have happened without these kids, but it would not have been nearly so humiliating.
Carry on Kpop Stans!
fleur-de-lisa
(14,624 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)I don't really get all the angry pushback at tik-tok teen/kpop-stan story I'm seeing here.
I guess people just want to think Trump is over. But Trump isn't over and it's dangerous to act like he is.
demmiblue
(36,841 posts)dalton99a
(81,455 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)Us old folks just can't wrap our heads around it
Reminds me of that Bob Dylan song
Wheezy
(1,763 posts)honest.abe
(8,677 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....who were interested in attending.
They didn't prevent anyone who really wanted to go from going. That's even better, the bottom line is only 6,200 people wanted to be there, the "hacking" notwithstanding.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)1) Trump supporters stayed away and 2) teens punked the Trump campaign, evidently thanks to a suggestion from a middle-aged white woman who volunteered with the Buttigieg campaign. Plus, she mentioned Juneteenth and Black Wall Street in her TikTok video, so kudos to her.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,624 posts)crickets
(25,962 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)They're claiming the K-pop kids caused MAGA to stay away
They did not
Brother Buzz
(36,416 posts)When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,624 posts)Nuff said.
yellowdogintexas
(22,250 posts)Parscale bragging about the huge number of request for tickets. With that many requests, that arena should have filled as well as the overflow. It didn't go down that way.
Surely among that many ticket requests there should have been enough to at least fill the arena, if not the overflow.
Grossly overestimating the potential size of the crowd was very embarassing.
Initech
(100,063 posts)Celebrate the small victories while you can!
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Skittles
(153,150 posts)the bragging about one million tickets was PRICELESS
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)By drastically inflating the RSVP numbers, the kids (and I am confident that it was mostly high school aged people who did this, as I have a 17-year-old daughter who is very active on TikTok/Instagram and has been keeping me up-to-date on this all week) were able to excite the Trump campaign staff. Because of their projected attendance, they made plans for, and constructed a second outdoor venue. They talked up the historical proportions of the crowd, and set themselves up for a huge night.
Honestly, if only the Trumpers had RSVPed who were planning to attend, and even 2/3 more than that, its quite likely that the event would have been canceled. Think about it
6200 people attended. If 20,000 had RSVPed honestly, the campaign would have thought it was a little risky to proceed and likely wouldve used the Juneteenth issue as a reason to
respectfully cancel. The entire fact that this was seen as a huge debacle is because they were expecting so many people, because of the teens who know how to use the power of the internet to spread their cause.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)Tipperary
(6,930 posts)This is an important point. I do not like him having anything to hide behind.
NNadir
(33,512 posts)It's way more beautiful because of our beautiful young people.
bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,062 posts)Go read the article.
I don't see anything that supports the OP's claim that NYTimes is crediting the teens or k-pop for low turnout.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,810 posts)are not any friends of ours.........
A couple of decades ago they were, but it flipped to loving Corporations and RepubliCON's a ways back......
NoMoreRepugs
(9,413 posts)stopdiggin
(11,296 posts)see #57. NYT really isn't making any such claims.
Ms. Toad
(34,062 posts)They say no such thing.
Confirmation bias is dangerous and contributes to the spread of fake news.
keithbvadu2
(36,775 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 21, 2020, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)
"We've never had an empty seat.
And we certainly won't in Oklahoma."
Link to tweet
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)It means that the kids got around 13,000 tickets and actual Trump supporters got fewer than 6,200. Just like when you order tickets to a concert through Ticket Master - you get the tickets (say, Section 101, Row A, Seat 3, 4 and 5) and that seat is gone and unavailable to the next person.
stopdiggin
(11,296 posts)assigned seats? then what's with the overflow seating area?
erronis
(15,241 posts)whopis01
(3,510 posts)That isnt how it works at these political rallies.
The seats arent assigned. Having a ticket does not guarantee entrance. You can show up without a ticket and still get in. It is first come, first serve when am they start letting people into the venue.
The whole point of the ticket reservation system is so they can better judge how many people are likely to show up.
catrose
(5,065 posts)The kids trolled Parscale & the T org, but they didn't keep anyone away who wanted to be there.
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)supporters away? I have seen stories that say that some kids ordered a lot of tickets and that the Trump campaign apparently thought that a lot more people were coming to the rally because of the number of tickets ordered. In addition, I have seen the Trump campaign falsely blame the local protestors for keeping Trump supporters away. However, I haven't seen a story that says that the kids, through their ordering of tickets, actually kept people away. Do you have a link to this story so that I can read it? Thank you very much in advance.
stopdiggin
(11,296 posts)here's a couple NYT articles today --
What the kids did was actually help the Trump campaign in enormously embarrassing themselves.
Kids didn't stop or prevent anything.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/21/style/tiktok-trump-rally-tulsa.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/us/politics/tulsa-trump-rally.html?
George II
(67,782 posts)....but it didn't prevent anyone who wanted to go from doing so.
In a sense, that's even worse - only 6200 actually WANTED to go!
And that BS about "protesters" blocking the entrance is bogus, too. There were police at the entrances, and they were keeping it clear.
Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)because of Juneteenth. Think about that...a president of the USA that would have been an insult to black people if he held a rally on that holiday. And they admitted it. If President Obama had given a rally on Juneteenth it would have been the hottest ticket in town and the biggest party in the nation.
What other President can you think of who has admitted his appearance on an ethnic holiday would have been an insult to people of that ethnicity?
barbtries
(28,787 posts)i swear i was just thinking the exact same thing. There were unlimited tickets. maybe having given away so many discouraged some people from going, but i'm thinking it's a couple other things: there are less of his base than there used to be, and people don't want coronavirus.
Sucha NastyWoman
(2,748 posts)Bottom line, it was a failure
AJT
(5,240 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,062 posts)from being there.
It is primarily being decribed as trolling Trump; getting him to promise more crowds than he could deliver. That's not the same as preventing turnout.
Trump has been building expectations based on the number of registrations - no one (not even Trump) expected a million people to show up. BUT the higher than anticipated data haul did encourage them to throw caution to the wind and (1) build an outdoor venue and (2) brag louder than usual about how big the crowd would be - unaware of how any of the tickets were purchased by pranksters.
So it likely did cause Trump to spend money on a space to hold some of the pranksters
It did make the flop more spectactular because of all of the bragging based on inflated numbers.
You are correct that he couldn't draw a crowd of 7000. But, aside from people trying to knock down a "false narrative" I haven't seen anyone seriously promoting the narrative you are trying to dispute.
"haven't seen anyone seriously promoting the narrative you are trying to dispute."
GusBob
(7,286 posts)here, hold my beer
JohnQFunk
(409 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,062 posts)They said no such thing.
We need to stop mimicking the right win fake news spin.
Marrah_Goodman
(1,586 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)hellacia
(13 posts)More importantly what they did do is mess up Brad Parscale's data haul big time; a much more important achievement.
Trump's campaign thought they had harvested 100s of thousands of likely voter contact information. Turns out it is almost entirely bogus. They're going to have to throw out every name, phone number, and email address they collected for this rally because they can't know what is good and what isn't.
The whole point of the thing was to get voter info and work the list for Trump's benefit. The TikTok gambit totally ruined that for them. Totally makes this rainy day full of sunshine for me.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,998 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,285 posts)yaesu
(8,020 posts)they made him and his staff look like fools when the were bragging about the million people wanting to take part. Those kids did that. IT WASN"T ABOUT THE NUMBERS< IT WAS ABOUT THE PRANK!!!!!!!
relayerbob
(6,544 posts)And, we don't know how many were actually paid to show up!
lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)But I have deep concern that 7000 freshly COVID-19 inoculated, freshly indoctrinated and excited IDIOTS flew, drove or took the train home, sans masks or any other protection or concern for the general public they meet, go home and hug their families, brag to friends, to the likely outcome of an exacerbation of the COVID epidemic.
If there were "successful" pranks, embarrassment, fear stoking or simply attempts to pound plain common sense into republicans to avoid going to a disease sharing ritual would be chalked up to possible life-saving measures in my book.
As a caregiver, I can't judge a person's actions that led to them catching diseases. I simply care for them with empathetic and caring detachment.
But it makes me angry as hell at IDIOTS who go stroke their hero's need for adulation, spreading disease and misery, risking their own and other's children as collateral damage.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)belittle, minimize what the did, I don't give a rats about the fine points, they did good.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)For the WIN!!!
BadGimp
(4,015 posts)and that so many tickets were reserved...
That a whole lot of MAGAts just stayed home?
I would have not taken the risk even if AOC, Elizabeth Warren, and Kamala Harris were the openers...
Mariana
(14,854 posts)Who wants to stand around outside all day in the heat and humidity, when they've been told their actual chance of admission is slim to none?
sheepfarm
(38 posts)1. As mentioned by the OP, tickets to the event were unlimited and that entry to the arena would be first come, first served provided you had a ticket to gain entrance in the first place. So no one from the tik-tok/K-pop plot essentially prevented anyone from gaining entry to the event.
2. The campaign boasted that ~1 million tickets had been allocated to the event (we don't know exactly how realistic this was), forcing an additional outdoor stage for attendance overflow to be created that would hold twice the (capacity) crowd inside, with speeches being made from the outdoor stage inc. one from Drumpf.
3. The rumours/hype built up by this "one million" figure ensured that some deplorables camped outside the arena up to 48 hours before Drumpf's speech was due, so they could have some of the best seats in the house to hear & see their master.
Result? One of three things happened (a) the campaign team knew that the ticket reservations were being deliberately sabotaged/inflated, but hadn't the heart/courage to tell the gobshite in chief lest he fired them to protect his vision of hundreds of thousands being desperate to be at the rally, or (b) the campaign team again knew that the ticket reservations were inflated, but tried to use such figures to present a picture that such a mass gathering would encourage even more people to attend, which would help offset some of the "ghost" reservations otherwise, or (c) the campaign team genuinely thought that the ~1 million ticket reservations were largely genuine, and didn't suspect anything, or thought that such a campaign to sabotage the hype would have no measurable effect.
And the fallout?
The organisers, whom talked up these numbers, only ended up with ~0.6% of the bodies in attendance at the event, not even filling the venue up to a third of capacity. Major fail already.
There was money also wasted on building the overflow stage that in the eventual event was never required. More money was also wasted on security for a much higher number of attendees that were expected. Another fail.
The Drumpf cultists that spent up to two nights before camping outside the arena to get prime viewing seats fell for the hype, and they won't be sure whom to blame. The confidence that many of them have in Drumpfler won't at this stage likely have totally fallen, but it'll certainly have been shaken. Chalk up another "fail".
There would have been great potential in building up the database of those whom made ticket reservations for the event to be an important calling list. We don't know exactly how many of these entries were spoilers - I seriously doubt it was around half a million or so involved in this massive bit of trolling - but there's likely to be enough data in that database that was filled with fake or disposable info to make it close to useless for the Drumpf campaign team to use to be able to filter out the genuine support from fake. Major fail right there.
And finally, there is Drumpfler himself. Even if he had been warned in advance that the one million figure was grossly exaggerated (which given all tales leaked from the WH would seem unlikely), to speak to a 20k capacity arena that is not even a third full will have a major blow on his ego. He will be asking how did this happen? Can he trust members of his reelection team to be open/honest to him (almost certainly not the case as it is)? Is he wondering does his "authority" stemming from his massive self-confidence no longer resonate with the GOP electorate? Not too long ago at a packed campaign rally, all Drumpf would have to shout was "jump!" and most in attendance would have yelled back "how high?" yet last night was as dull as any he has had, with only being able to drink a cup of water with one hand and then chucking it away rousing the deplorables. It can all be summed up by how he got off the plane back at the WH after the event. That folks is an EPIC fail!
And that is before we're even get down to how so few people showed up to actually attend the rally, regardless of just how many ticket reservations were.
This was a 4chan-esque style trolling/sabotage of a Trump campaign rally - this time the tables had somewhat turned. You can bet your backside that had the asshole central known as /pol/ did this with a Democrat candidate, they'd all be exhausted from all the dry-humping of their anime waifu's done in celebration to "wrecking" the Dem's night. This time, their own tactics were used on their "daddy" to good effect.
So, yeah, this tik-tok/K-pop ticket sabotage plan was not the be all and end all of last night's GOP humiliation, but it certainly helped. And if the organisers had known what the real numbers attending would have been, they might have made their excuses to postpone or cancel the rally to try and save face. Instead, they got exposed.
If you want the current sh*t gibbon out of the WH, don't be dissing what Gen-Z have done here. They have done a massive service in opening up and exposing the current Drumpf reelection campaign that may not have been visible otherwise by getting the campaign team to (likely) believe in their own hype.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)What is it with these types of posts lately? How is it that people think they have agency over other people? Crazy.
The whole idea was that the teens inflated dipshits ego and watched the air come out of the enormous orange balloon.
Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I'm not going to shit all over kids getting involved in politics at a time when their interest is desperately needed.
onetexan
(13,036 posts)They succeeded in their prank. GOOD FOR THEM. Maybe the poster of this thread needs to give the kids their credit. To succesfully pull off a huge prank like this takes alot of coordination. These tech savvy young people did it. We should applaud them for it and tell them to keep up the good work. They're with us.
budkin
(6,699 posts)Trump is clearly in trouble.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)First, the Trump Campaign surely had some knowledge that lots of tickets were being requested by trolls who had no intention of coming to the rally. They likely didn't care because it is all general admission, so requesting a ticket doesn't preclude anyone else from attending if they want to. Also it helped them to claim millions of people were requesting tickets, thus making it seem like support was much higher than it really was.
They almost surely thought it would be a packed house with ample overflow outside. This was a rally in a pretty deeply red area, so I'm sure they thought they could pull in 30k people, which would have fulled the arena and left plenty to people outside that they could use pictures of to make the crowd look very large. However, 6k people actually came out, which make the area look sparsely filled and like a ghost town outside.
That is the worst outcome possible for this highly touted event. They would much rather people believe that some conspiracy from outside actors hurt even attendance rather than the truth, which is that nobody came.
Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)malaise
(268,939 posts)What it did was make the idiots boast about very high numbers and overflow and prepare for both..
For that the kids deserve lots of praise.
haele
(12,647 posts)This probably lead to a miscalculation by the campaign team, so instead of lowering expectations before the event and appearing to be on top of the situation. They could have turned around the optics (COVID safety precautions, etc), but no, they were caught flat footed.
Haele
woodsprite
(11,911 posts)security, which caused his fall to be greater.