When was the anti-war movement co-opted or at least infiltrated by apologists for dictators?

[DTomlinson]

I'm thinking specifically of the Tulsi Gabbards and Jill Steins of the world, along with the rest of those who would have us believe that "Trump is anti-interventionist" or that "Assad and Putin are just fighting terrorists, nothing to see here folks", WikiLeaks and those who slavishly devote themselves to parroting Julian Assange's propaganda, etc.

Yes, I know that Putin and his allies have obviously been directly and indirectly sponsoring a lot of this, and taking advantage of all of it, but propaganda is only effective if enough people actually believe it. So, am I crazy in thinking this is a massive problem for all of us who genuinely do want peace, justice, rule of law, active respect for human rights, democracy, and equality across the world?

[JonLP24]

1. Apologists for dictators is subjective

The US allies with Saudi Arabia and so has every President since FDR. We sell them weapons.

There is a lot of misinformation regarding Syria I blame people like Aaron Mate & Jimmy Dore for misinformation on Russia & Syria on the antiwar left. The thing is the antiwar left was right about the Iraq War and Bush lied about WMD so there is a lot of skepticism about the justification for foreign conflicts.

Gabbard I have so many problems with. As far as foreign policy she is very problematic when it comes to Modi. However she does have a point about regime change wars & instead focus on Wahabbism and stand up to Saudi Arabia (she is not an apologist for Saudi Arabia) which is the ideology that attacked the US on 9-11. Not the countries we have done regime change wars in with the exception of Afghanistan

However, I think Russia is a bigger threat than terrorism.

[DTomlinson]

3. Interesting perspective. You make some good points re:being right on the wrongness of the Iraq War

and some people, like those you mentioned, leveraging that opposition to regime change in the Middle East to propagandize on Assad's behalf.

And yeah, the US support for Saudi is really awful, and it's so brazen now under Trump.

[Crunchy Frog]

2. Since the time of Stalin at least. nt

[DTomlinson]

4. True. The CPUSA's leadership took orders from Moscow in the 30s and 40s. A lot of declassified info

after the Soviet Union collapsed has shown just how sophisticated and extensive the coordination was.

[The Magistrate]

5. Hear Hear, Ma'am

Would that it were otherwise, but it is so.

An unfortunately large proportion of people on the left apply but a quite simple test to determine what side they take up --- if it is done by or for the United States, it is wrong.

[DTomlinson]

6. "if it is done by or for the United States, it is wrong." You nailed the mentality I was describing.

I call it "the anti-imperialism of fools."

[Crunchy Frog]

7. Yes Sir. I was also thinking about the support for "peace" with Germany

during the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

[DTomlinson]

8. Before Molotov-Ribbentrop: "Hitler is evil"; afterwards, "We must make peace with Hitler..."

...until Germany invades the Soviet Union in June 1941, then it's back to "Hitler is evil and must be stopped."

All of this describes the Comintern line within those few years.

[The Magistrate]

9. I Highly Recommend Orwell's 'Notes on Nationalism', Ma'am

He sees this sort of 'reverse nationalism' as a sort of have your cake and eat it too affair --- you can reject all the joys of domestic patriotism, while wallowing in the same things under different name, only espoused by opponents of your country....


https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

[DTomlinson]

10. Thank you, sir!