"Law and Order" is a losing strategy for Trump.

[Laelth]

It only works if you are the challenger, not if you are the incumbent. Nixon was able to pull off a victory in 1968 because he was the challenger. LBJ and the ruling Democratic Party were held responsible for the civil unrest that rocked several American cities that year. Nixon won, in part, on his promise to restore “law and order.”

2020 is different. The civil unrest that we are experiencing is far more widespread and far more disciplined than it was in 1968. Trump OWNS this civil unrest. Because he’s a moron, he also now owns his defense of memorials to people who fought to protect slavery. Talk about being tone-deaf!



But now he’s running on the law and order platform, and he can’t do anything to stop the civil unrest we are seeing. He’s just proving himself to be impotent—issuing unenforceable orders left and right but having NO EFFECT. He looks weak. He looks impotent. He can’t stop the civil unrest, so his “law and order” strategy is backfiring on him.

Right now, he’s promising something that he can’t deliver. Why would anyone give him a second chance to accomplish something that he can’t accomplish NOW?

He has, because he’s really stupid, chosen a losing strategy.



-Laelth

[Newest Reality]

1. When I think of law and order...

When I think of law and order in connection with Predator Grump, I think of it as meaning that he thinks he is the law and we are all expected to follow his orders, dictator style.

Anyway, running on law and order is old news and the circumstances we are in make it a bad strategy, and may Predator Grump continue to run on his gut, (there is lots of it) and ignore advice because his luck and failing up are coming to an end.

Maybe he won't realize that he contains the seeds of his own destruction. His hubris may turn out to be the Achilles heel we have been hoping to find/see.

[LaelthsDaughter]

2. Ain't nobody got time for that!

Ain’t nobody got time for police brutality, for a strong hand in order, for any of the he-man bullshit trump loves advertising. Of course he gon’ loose with this argument. What’s really funny is he thinks his ass can win on the argument that the people running the government suck! He’s the dipshit running the government!

Point made, point heard!

[customerserviceguy]

3. Nixon made it work in 1972

Big time. He may have said "Law and Order" in 1968, but his campaign actually had bumper stickers printed with that phrase in 1972. I remember it well.

Also, in 1968, Nixon had George Wallace bleeding off the votes of the most racist voters. Wallace actually won the electoral votes of five states that surely would have gone to Nixon had Wallace not run.

[Laelth]

4. Interesting. I didn't know that. Thank you.

Let us hope that Trump can’t make it work this time.

-Laelth

[customerserviceguy]

6. Agreed

But, it's why I have a substantial amount of fear going into this fall. Yes, the polls are tipping Joe Biden's way, but I attribute that to a brief amount of white guilt following the George Floyd killing. At some point, when white America starts to figure out that they won't be forgiven, they will get annoyed.

And suburban white America does NOT want its police department defunded.

[StarfishSaver]

9. "when white America starts to figure out that they won't be forgiven". ???

What does that mean?

[Awsi Dooger]

18. The George Floyd situation was like a jolt of "we tried to tell you"

White suburban America was stunned, regretful and apologetic. If it had ended right there it would have been a huge net positive.

But the push toward "Defund the Police" is exactly what was described above. It means white America is not being forgiven while asked to finally take meaningful steps. It means white America is being condemned as the culprit and the enabler. That indeed has great potential to backlash in terms of being pushed too far.

And it's not merely relegated to whites. I have already described in another thread how my 75 year old Cuban neighbor votes Democratic but is disgusted with "Defund the Police." In particular I don't think we are grasping at all the impact on Florida Hispanics especially the Cuban community. That is a law and order crowd all the way. Donna Shalala is clearly shook up about it. She sent an email yesterday conceding her House opponent is within striking range. That is in a district that went 20 points for Hillary in 2016.

[StarfishSaver]

20. Your post illuminates a serious problem some white people have. They still think this is about them

Not only that, but they think fairness, equality and justice are gifts and rewards that they can mete out at their discretion depending upon the degree to which they believe their black fellow citizens are behaving appropriately and treating them with sufficient deference.

If we call their attention to a problem with JUST the right tone and sense of urgency, they will feel compelled to respond. But if we go too far and hurt their feelings or, God forbid, make them feel guilty, THWAP! Down comes the window, the door slams shut and "no more candy for YOU!"

Why in the hell does any white person in America think black people are supposed to "forgive" them? And why do they feel entitled to withdraw their support for justice and civil rights for all people because they think we haven't?

I have no doubt that some white and even some deluded Hispanic people think exactly as you describe. I see it myself all the time, sometimes on this very board.

But we don't have time for that kind of foolishness. They need to get over themselves, open their eyes and stop acting like this is about them and they are the center of everyone's universe. When they do, I will welcome them with open arms. If not, then they need to just stay their butts over there in the Trump camp (whether they admit it or not, they're no better than Trumpsters in this regard - they're simply clever enough to say the quiet parts quietly) and let the rest of us focus on people who actually give a shit about the future of this country and the people in it.

[customerserviceguy]

31. What would it take

for you to feel that the US has completely put racism behind us? If the answer is "nothing", then you can figure out what I mean.

If the answer is something that simply is never going to happen, same result.

[JonLP24]

12. I haven't heard "white guilt" since the 90s

I cared about solving racism police brutality & racism long before George Floyd protests. In fact I care more about solving them than winning elections.

One thing I don't feel guilty.

Suburban police departments are already "defunded"

AOC

Affluent white communities already live in a world where they choose to fund youth, health, housing etc more than they fund police.

These communities have lower crime rates not because they have more police but bc they have more resources to support healthy society in a way that reduces crime.

When a teen or a preteen does something harmful in a suburb (I say teen because this is often when lifelong carceral cycles begin for Black and Brown communities).

White communities bend over backwards to find alternatives to incarceration for their loves ones to “protect their future”, like community service or rehab or restorative measures.

Why don’t we treat Black and Brown people the same way?

Why doesn’t the criminal system care about Black teens’ futures the way they care for White teens’ futures?

Why doesn't the news use Black people’s graduation photos or family photos in stories they way they do when they cover White people (e.g Brock Turner) who commit harmful crimes?

Affluent White suburbs also design their own lives so that they walk through the world without having much interrupt or interaction with police at all, aside from community events and speeding tickets (and many of these communities try to reduce these too!).

Just starting THERE would be a dramatically and radically different world than what we’re experiencing now.

https://www.indy100.com/article/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-deund-police-black-lives-matter-aoc-9562736

[Laelth]

14. AOC rocks!

Thank you for this post
.

-Laelth

[StarfishSaver]

7. I don't agree

Law and order wasn't a big issue - either openly or tacitly - in 1972. There was very little unrest during that time and there wasn't a lot to be exploited in that regard. The economy was strong, the war was winding down (or so people thought), and Nixon was seen as strong on foreign affairs - he had gone to China in February of that year, had warmed relations with the Soviet Union, Kissinger was doing shuttle diplomacy.

Nixon also had George McGovern as an opponent.

"Law and order" may have been an issue for some people that year. But those who thought that was important were already in the Nixon camp.

Laelth is right. As the incumbent overseeing and largely responsible for this mess, Trump is in no position to capitalize on a law and order message.

[customerserviceguy]

28. How old were you in 1972?

I mean, Kent State happened in 1970, and there were all kinds of anti-war protests going on that became conflated with earlier rioting in urban areas.

And I don't remember the economy being all that strong at the time, but will certainly acknowledge that it got worse with the first OPEC cutoffs of oil in 1973.

Yes, there was the trip to China, but not everybody viewed that in a favorable light. Seeing what China's been like lately, they were prescient. And if you think George McGovern was a weak opponent, then you don't know that he had a solid military record during WWII. He had massive crowds show up at his rallies, I was there for one of them in Portland, Oregon. Frankly, I find McGovern a much more exciting candidate on his worst day than Joe Biden's shown us he can be so far. And Nixon was considered as evil as Trump is today.

Nixon played that "silent majority" theme like a fiddle, and Trump is reading from the same playbook.

[StarfishSaver]

33. I was a teenager and was very politically aware and engaged

I worked on the McGovern campaign. And I attended some of those rallies. Lots of people, lots of enthusiasm. And then he lost in a landslide. As we see today, massive crowds at rallies are not proof of a candidate's strength or viability.

I adored McGovern but he was a weak candidate for many reasons - and most of them had nothing to do with any "law and order" message from Nixon.

And while there were lots of anti-war rallies in 1970, much of that had died down by 1972.

As I keep saying. This isn't 1968. And it's not 1972.

[customerserviceguy]

37. Well, we'll see what happens

The swing voters who went from voting for Obama twice to voting for Trump did so for a reason. I suspect that civil unrest is the kind of chaos they might seek to avoid by staying with Trump, even though he may be an embarrassment to them now.

It's "safe" to tell a pollster that you're favoring Joe Biden right now, no actual change is going to come about by expressing frustration with Trump's ham-handed way of handling both domestic and foreign affairs. But when it comes down to being in the voting booth, or filling out your ballot at the kitchen table, and you wonder who will bring back the economy, or hurt you and your family the least, they may waver.

It's interesting to hear you say that you thought that George McGovern was weak for many reasons, can you tell me ways that Joe Biden is exuding strength that McGovern just didn't have? The only one I can think of is that Joe says he'll pick a woman to be his running mate, while it would have been wonderful for McGovern to have done that, it could very well have been too revolutionary for the times.

[bullwinkle428]

24. I was 8 in 1972, but grew up with very politically-conscious parents, so

I think I made it a point to pay more attention to politics in general than the average 8-year-old at the time. I recall bumper stickers from that election cycle that simply stated "President Nixon", which clearly pushed a message of preservation of the status quo, as things were relatively stabilized following the unrest which defined much of the late 1960s. I was too young to have any recollection of the 1968 cycle, but the "stay the course" theme seemed to dominate in '72.

BOOM! I thought I'd just do a quick Google search, and found several examples of the bumper sticker I thought was recalling...

https://www.etsy.com/listing/593706426/vintage-president-nixon-bumper-sticker?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_d-art_and_collectibles-collectibles-memorabilia-souvenirs_and_events&utm_custom1=bc1b5b6a-3f6c-4a10-8413-9700497c8590&utm_content=go_1843970593_72372924880_346397747449_pla-316730450793_c__593706426&utm_custom2=1843970593&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96rA-sOa6gIV6giICR3-2ATDEAQYBCABEgKtCfD_BwE

[customerserviceguy]

29. I remember the stickers you found

And unfortunately, I cannot find the Law and Order sticker online, but it had the same typeface (font?) of the ones you found.

[lagomorph777]

26. Nixon made it work because he wasn't the incumbent.

It's obvious to most people that Trump is the cause of the disorder, definitely not going to become a cure.

[customerserviceguy]

30. He was widely and deeply hated by progressives in 1972

Especially for the things he did in Indochina. We wanted him gone as much as we want Trump gone today.

[lagomorph777]

35. I remember.

I never thought I'd hate somebody more than Nixon. But I do.

[customerserviceguy]

36. Same here

Trump almost makes Nixon look like a statesman.

[StarfishSaver]

5. Well said!

[Laelth]

8. Thank you. n/t

-Laelth

[Blue_true]

10. If boneheads keep "taking over" parts of cities, it won't be for long.

Americans are waking up to problems with policing, hopefully anarchists won't ruin that.

[Laelth]

11. Fox says that the folks in Seattle are an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

Either that or an autonomous collective.

I am not worried about these autonomous zones. What harm have they done, really?



-Laelth

[Blue_true]

13. They caused chaos.

If people want to take over neighborhoods, buy homes or businesses there and transform it. That is how a lot of now prestige neighborhoods got started, new thinkers populating places that were rundown and building an open, inclusive culture there.

[Laelth]

17. If the Seattle folks were shooting for chaos, they failed.

Everything that I have seen about the Seattle protest is that it has been peaceful, for many days, with minimal violence and minimal destruction of property. If they were trying to create chaos, they blew it—big time.



-Laelth

[Blue_true]

21. Three people shot, one dead is calm? Your idea of "calm" is rather strange, IMO. nt

[Xolodno]

15. Law and order, tough on crime has been way overused....

...for decades by both Republican and Democratic candidates.

It's "one" of the reasons why the police are now looked upon so badly, protect and serve is now a joke. James Bond like immunity from shooting people, abuse of authority to detain and arrest people, harassment of law abiding citizens. Budget cuts to repair the street you live on because they have to increase the budget for the police....getting arrested, and the charges are dropped by the DA like a hot potato, massive fines that bankrupt you, all because you farted in the wrong direction, etc.

And it isn't just minorities, even white people are sick of them. My brother went to a private New Years Eve party at a local hall 20 years ago. Sure there was people under 21, but the owner was pretty strict, had wristbands, punch cards on how many times you went to the bar, still requiring ID to make sure your name and ID matched with the punch card, etc. And of course, everyone was white. Two police officers show up, start demanding ID from everyone having a soda or juice and demanding to know how much they had to drink that night (note, I didn't say they asked if they had been drinking) Then the owner, see's this, goes to the officers and tells them to get the fuck out immediately as they were not invited in and to quit harassing everyone. And informed them they were trespassing. They responded they were just trying make sure there was no underage drinking...which again he told them, to get the fuck out. Think he may have been well connected, then again, he was white.

My sister got arrested once for violating curfew for people under 18 (and yes, we are white). All she did was, ask my brother to stop at a public bathroom (they were at the beach and the bathrooms there were a bit thrashed...so decided to go into the "revitalized downtown area" ) of the city so she could go, then they would go home.

They jumped the shark way too many times, from everything of a cop at a pool party doing a barrel roll just because there were some invited minorities and some idiot outside of the party reported it....to now, a police officer shoving his knee into a guy's neck suffocating a compliant detained person....and if he truly was worried about a flight risk....shove him in the cruiser. Why is that so hard?

And lets not get started on mental illness. Show up before the professionals do....and then shoot them, not taser, not pepper spray...lethal shot kill them....and the family, heart broken as they called for the help.

And despite all this, some, not all, still don't get it.

[JI7]

16. "Law and Order" for Republicans is about being tough on minorities to make White People feel better

[StarfishSaver]

23. Exactly

They see the police in the role they originally played - to protect white people and their property from us.

[Calista241]

19. Trump hasn't discussed a plan yet. He's going to come around and release

A plan for reform that goes just far enough, and gives a shitload of white people a good feeling.

Meanwhile, we’ve got people talking about reparations, changing the way housing works, free healthcare, retrials for everyone currently incarcerated, abolishing the police, and all kinds of other crazy shit.

Law and Order won’t sound too bad for a shitload of white people.

[jmg257]

22. Or not. His base will be told just whom is responsible for unrest - and

who is doing little to prevent it.

I.E. Every rally and any other chance to lay blame - he will. And it will be on everyone else.
They are already brainwashed 24/7 NOT to blame trump - for anything.

[Initech]

25. Never forget that Chump pardoned Joe Arpaio.

The least orderly sheriff in America!

[malaise]

27. No one who has broken the law as often as the Con should get away with claiming to

be the Law and Order president.
Lock up this criminal for manslaughter of over 123,000 people
He will not get away with this

[Laelth]

34. Agreed. n/t

-Laelth

[Wounded Bear]

32. The Law is whatever Trump orders...nt