Another day, another viral "Karen" moment. WARNING ⚠️ LANGUAGE AND VIOLENCE

[Floyd R. Turbo]

Another day, another viral "Karen" moment.

A video posted on social media this week showed a June 22 altercation between two customers at a Sacramento 7-Eleven.

The footage begins in middle of a heated argument in which an unidentified white woman calls a Black woman a racial slur. It's unclear what exactly started the argument, but the white woman repeatedly shouted, "I said excuse me!" before using the n-word. Stupid, stupid decision.

The Black woman then walked toward "Sacramento Karen," throws an item at her and said, "Call me a n*a again ... I'm the right one. Try it." The white woman's tone got noticeably quieter for a few moments, but then she accepted the challenge at firmly dropped the n-word. A split second later, the Black woman started swinging and punched the white woman in the face multiple times.

A second video begins with the white woman on the floor, as she holds the other woman's arm.
"Let me go," the Black woman is heard saying as she stands over "Karen." "You better let me go or I'm gonna hit your ass again." The white woman refused to release her grip, so she got another fist to the face.

https://apple.news/Ai2uVtrENSsyfDohU09W8sg

[USALiberal]

1. Sick of "karen" posts! Nt

[lunasun]

6. Should just be called another racists woman but Karen is easier now. I am sick of people using

racial slurs with hate in their heart trying to hurt others

I bet a lot of these types are sick of cell phones capturing them being racist assholes more than being called Karen

[whathehell]

9. Me too. Thank you.

[whathehell]

10. Yeah, stereotypes are always "easier"

That doesn't make them more acceptable -- and we shouldn't ALLOW them to be.

[StarfishSaver]

13. By all means

Last edited Fri Jun 26, 2020, 11:27 AM - Edit history (1)

Let's shift the focus off of the racism that black people face every day to the truly heartbreaking damage caused to white women named Karen.

And not only can we make it all about white people and THEIR suffering, it's another opportunity to tone-police black people AND to blame US if white people continue to ignore the racism in their midst.

What a bargain!

[brush]

19. That's what I'm talking about. Always good to remind some...

that their progressive bona fides are maybe just skin deep.

Where are the priorities, people?

[Cirque du So-What]

14. Nobody is forcing you to click on them, yunno

Personally, it's sickening that these encounters keep occurring. Thank Dog for the proliferation of cell phone cameras to document it.

Just because it doesn't get reported, doesn't mean its not happening. It's not like testing for coronavirus, yunno.

[delisen]

31. So we should ignore gendered stereotyping ?

Ignoring gendered stereotyping will just make it go away? Has not worked in the past and won't work now.
The karen meme is intended to support status quo inequality.

[Cirque du So-What]

34. There are male equivalents, yunno

Call ‘em fuckin’ Chads or fuckin’ Todds. I have no control over the fact that more women are captured acting out than men. I fully support equality in capturing racist acts committed by males.

[obamanut2012]

43. No, they aren't male equivalents

No matter how much you try selling this, you aren't gonna make fetch happen.

[Cirque du So-What]

45. ...

[kcr]

67. No, there isn't, yunnnnooooo

"I have no control over the fact that more women are captured acting out than men." Exhibit A

[Cirque du So-What]

71. Prune juice helps

Yunno

[SiliconValley_Dem]

65. heheh. then white women better stop doing this racist shit

[dalton99a]

2. She asked for it.

What an idiot

[whathehell]

8. WE did not..That's the point

SHE needs to be treated as an individual -- not as an excuse for race-based sexism.

[StarfishSaver]

12. "Not all white women named Karen"

[whathehell]

16. That's correct, not all, not even "most"

Your pooh-pooing my objection to being stereotyped is like saying the "not all Black people" response to black stereotypes was "okay".
Substitute "white women named Karen"
for "black men named (whatever) " and I think you'll get the point

Democratic Underground is comprised of ALL races, genders and sexual orientations -- NO one wants to be stereotyped -- No one.

[Demovictory9]

83. 1st she declined to press charges, said it was her fault, then changed her mind.

[Throck]

3. Funny I see two wrongs.

De-escalation could have been easy. I refuse to engage morons. There's a time to engage and a time to avoid.

Ghandi would cry at seeing our modern society.

[liberalmuse]

7. I have a problem with violence and yet

Have no problem with racists or Nazis being punched repeatedly in the face. Evil needs the shit kicked out of it.

[brush]

21. Amen!

[delisen]

33. A lot of men who hate women enjoy beating and killing

Men who beat and kill women often categorize them as evil first.

[whathehell]

96. The law "has a problem" with it, however

and that's not going to change. You can't "beat the shit" out of someone for using an offensive word.

[Caliman73]

56. Sometimes de-escalation is NOT easy.

I am not sure Ghandi is the best person to bring up when discussing Racism against Black people either.

I know Ghandi was a model for non-violent political organization. This situation was personal and we can't expect Black people to turn the other cheek all the time.

[Demonaut]

4. she was justified but she's not wearing a frigging mask

both are Karens except one is a racist piece of shit

[Sherman A1]

5. Yup

[brush]

23. Nope, better google the meme. "Karens" are a specific type of entitled white woman.

FYI: The meme is out of the bottle and can't be put back in. Sorry.

[delisen]

35. But it can be confronted as the anti-female meme it is

Sorry the attempt to intimidate will not work.

[brush]

36. Intimidate who? The internet? That's where the meme exists...

and like I said, it can not be put back in the bottle.

[whathehell]

95. +1000

Thank you.

[whathehell]

80. In fairness, what if we created similar memes for Entitled Men?

of all races who behave in a specificlly misogynist manner.

One could do "Todds" or "Harveys" for the white guys, maybe "Jamals" and/or "Jorges" for Black and Hispanic guys.. How would you feel about of that, seriously?

[brush]

82. Doesn't bother me at all. It's just shorthand for a "type"...

many of us have encountered.

[whathehell]

93. That's fair minded. n/t

[karynnj]

11. Both of these women are terrible

Because they are shouting at each other from the beginning of the clip, it is not clear what started this ruckus. It is clear both of these women are problems. It is also clear that as their fight continued, the white woman's racism is exposed.

I really am surprised to see a few posts not condemning the black woman punching the other woman. I wish someone working for the store would have even before that point demanded they both leave or act respectfully.

[Cirque du So-What]

15. At the point that horrific word is deployed, weapon-like

the rules are suspended and the person using it shouldn't be surprised by receiving an ass-beating.

[dalton99a]

17. Precisely.

[whathehell]

20. ..And that person should then be

surprised if they are not arrested for assault. No word, however 'hortific', justifies violence.

[brush]

32. Best not try it yourself though. Straignt out racism has consequences.

Last edited Sat Jun 27, 2020, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)

[whathehell]

59. So reporting a physical attack on myself is "straight out racism,"?

I don't think so.

[brush]

72. Try using the n-word. That's what the whole thing is about.

That's straight out racism. You have to know that.

[whathehell]

75. No one's arguing that using the n-word is NOT "straight out racism"

Of course it is...My point is, it's STILL a crime to physically assault someone for using it.

Having been called MANY ugly sexist slurs in my lifetime, I fully understand, and sympathize, with the desire to hit someone for such insults, but it's not legal.

[brush]

76. See post 66.

[whathehell]

77. You can cut and paste it iand post it to me, if you'd like..

Since they're not in numerical order, there's way too many to go through.

[brush]

79. Here it is. Something to think about.

Heh, woman uses "Fighting word", then loses fight.

From LII: "Fighting words are, as first defined by the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942), words which "by their very utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality."
Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment."

The fight is still illegal, but calling her the N-word got the result it deserved. Why anyone who is white thinks they can throw that around at a person of color without a fight is beyond me.

[whathehell]

88. I could make a very similar argument for assaulting a man

who calls me a "cunt" or even a "white bitch" which I once received for walking peacefully around a playground where some black guys were playing basketball...but I didn't*.

The problem is, there are many things that feel "deserving" of an assault, but they're just not legal. If one's not feeling 'big' enough to respond calmly, the best resonse, in my view, is to simply insult them back..You get some satisfaction out of it, and you stay out of jail.

Beyond that, I wonder if there might be some legal redress to this verbal bigotry with a charge of 'harassment'. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like an interesting question.

*I'm a woman, but I have slugged a couple of guys in my time. One was even a cop. I doubt I'd repeat those actions, though, especially the last one. It cost me a night in jail, and a $6, 000 fine.

[PTWB]

81. Legality and morality do not always walk the same line.

[delisen]

37. Promoting violence against or between women

In not new among males. Often there is a sexual component for males promoting violence regarding women.

[Ms. Toad]

40. As long as you understand that the civil and criminal rules are not suspended -

and you are willing to pay the civil or criminal penalties (including potential jail time) for delivering the ass-beating, go right ahead.

Mere words do not provide a defense to either criminal or civil claims of battery.

[Cirque du So-What]

42. I'd cite the 'fighting words' doctrine and hope for the best

Some words are so inflammatory that their use will make most reasonable people say, ‘(s)he had it coming.’

[Ms. Toad]

52. From a legal perspective - especially in this case - it would not work

" (s)he had it coming" isn't enough to provide a defense to battery, although they can be the equivalent of a verbal threat. But even verbal threats have to be accompanied by physical acts to make them assault.

These two women were both acting like toddlers and, FWIW, in the 11 years I taught in an all black high school I saw pretty much this exact same scenario play out perhaps twice a year - even with one daring the other to use the exact same racial epithet, ending in physical violence when the dare was accepted.

And, yes, it is different when blacks us it within their own community. And yes, the white woman here is a racist - the word would not be in her vocabulary as something that came out in the heat of the moment if she were not already accustomed to using it.

But the dynamic in this specific case felt to me more like a fight in which racism was used as an excuse for (rather than the trigger of) physical violence.

[RobinA]

54. Nope

Both these women are part of the problem. Screaming, hitting, throwing, slurs. Never justified except maybe in self defense and then not the slurs. A pox on both their houses.

[Ms. Toad]

18. I agree with you.

As near as I can tell, there must have been a physical encounter in which the white woman bumped the black woman and said excuse me. I don't hear the white woman use the n-word, until she is yelled at repeatedly for the prior incident.

Her use of the term is unacceptable, period. The fact that she used in at all makes it obvious that it is part of her vocabulary for use as an insult, and that she is racist.

But that doesn't excuse the black woman's aggressive behavior, which escalated into physical violence.

She reminded me of a bully cornering her prey and badgering the prey until the prey gave the bully an excuse to do what she intended to do all along: get physically violent.

This does not, from what I can see fall into the category of racist, privileged white woman using their privilege to keep blacks "in their place." It's just disgusting behavior on both parts, with a side on racism and violence thrown in for good measure.

[robbob]

99. Thank you

One of the few posts I see here that actually describes the incident accurately and realized there is unacceptable behaviour on both sides. Since we don’t see what happened to start the altercation it’s hard to fully understand the situation.

[brush]

25. Apparently you didn't get that the white woman had already...

called the black woman the n-word before the video began. When the white woman stupidly called the black woman the n-word again (as shown in the video) she deservedly was punched repeatedly. Straight out racism has it's consequences.

Best not to try that yourself. And best not to find fault with a victim of racism who wasn't having it.

[delisen]

38. Deservedly punched repeatedly?

[brush]

39. What's your question?

[Cirque du So-What]

44. Some people are slow learners

[Ms. Toad]

41. I listened to the video several times -

and I didn't see that allegation.

There are two videos - and the first use of the n-word was before the second video, but I believe it came halfway through the first one after a heated but (to that point) non-race-based altercation over what seems to have been physical interaction (like bumping each other in the aisle).

About halfway throught the first video the white woman uses the N-word for the first time that I am aware of. At that point the black woman gets closer to her and dares her to say it again - and when she does, then the black woman punches her.

[karynnj]

62. There are better ways to deal with this than getting into a fight

As to "best not try that yourself", you are completely out of line as I have never done anything remotely like that in my 70 years and taught my children values that would mean they would never do so.

[GemDigger]

28. Are you saying that the woman should have let the racist call her the * word and walk away?

[RobinA]

55. Uh...Yeah

That's what grown-ups do. It's actually very powerful to walk away from an insult.

[brush]

74. See post 66

[Throck]

60. What happens in the situation where protesters confront police with strong words?

The police are not justified in any physical response.

[karynnj]

61. No. There are many things between accepting it and punching her out

In fact, given that she had someone taping it, it could have been like many other videos. She could have kept her cool and asked the woman if this was the type of language and the values she wants to be seen as having. Is this what she taught her children or children of others in her family?

[whathehell]

84. Yes, and although this isn't as stoic and admirable as your suggestion,

she could have just called the white woman a nasty name.-- Verbal retaliation for a Verbal offense.

[karynnj]

100. Exactly or said that her comment shows she is a racist adding that she is behind the times

and really needs to clean up her act AND make an effort to learn to respect others. She may even hold dear a faith tradition that has a golden rule to treat others as you want to be treated. In neither Christianity or Judaism is that commitment restricted by race, sex, or religion - even if in practice it sometimes was.

It would have been beyond easy to claim the high ground AND use it to more effectively challenge the woman than punching her out, which likely will only act to reinforce her prejudices.

[Tipperary]

22. California.

Once again.

[maxrandb]

24. Wow! She was telling the White girl; "stop resisting"

[brush]

26. Are you equating the black woman with racist cops who beat/kill...

unarmed black men? What does your post mean?

[maxrandb]

46. It means that whenever the police want to beat the crap out of someone

you can here them say; "stop resisting".

Point being, if the black female was a cop, the white girl would be charged with resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer.

While I think that violence solves nothing, and is a true diminishing action for the advance of equality, it's a given fact that police officers can have someone handcuffed on the ground, but still beat the shit out of them and get off by claiming they were resisting.

It rarely works the other way.

So no. I don't condone what either of these ladies did. No, I'm not equating the black woman to a racist cop.

I'm pointing out that, in our current society, if the black woman were a cop, had a suspect on the ground in a harmless position, told the suspect to let go of her arm, and then punched her when she didn't, she'd be able to charge the other girl with resisting arrest.

[brush]

47. O-k-a-a-a-y, like that relates at all to what happen on the video.

Good imagination, though.

[procon]

27. Assault and battery.

Yeah it's wrong to use a racial epithet, but it's just as bad to launch into a physical attack over a verbal insult. The yelling and screaming, the intimidating in your face posturing was a guarantee that the whole sorry encounter was going to run off the rails in a hurry.

Both of these woman were responsible for their own terrible behavior, but the black woman crossed the line when she started hitting the white woman. Don't excuse the violence as a justified response to racist name calling. It was a completely unacceptable escalation of force.

She had other options to deal with the nasty "Karen". At the end, she finally chose to leave, which she could have done in the beginning before she assaulted the other woman.

[Blue_true]

29. I agree. nt

[brush]

30. Ridiculous response from a white perspective.

Pls don't try calling a black person the n-word if you're not prepared to defend yourself.

[procon]

48. Weak sauce.

Seriously, "defend yourself"... against what? Sounds like too many sword and sandals video games have left their mark upon reason.

These were two grown adults, not a couple of impulsive school kids. Is violence the answer for emotional outrage? Where do you draw the line in this Ann Rand utopia, what if you were grievously insulted by some bratty, smart alec kid, or a crotchety old person, do you sucker punch them to save face or give 'em a knife to the gut, gunshot to the head, anything goes right? On the other hand, what if your racist, dog whistling "Karen" was armed and shot you in self defense, that works too, yeah?

What physical trauma do you suffer from a verbal insult? A normal adult does not go full out into a violent rage over an insult from a stranger. Look, "defend yourself" is a pathetic attempt at putting lipstick on that pig which has exposed the weakness of your lawless argument.

[brush]

49. Just say you want to use the n-word and be done with it...

because that's how you're coming off.

[procon]

50. Perception is your own problem.

Maybe you should spend more time working through your own issues before branching out and projecting your angst onto others, yeah?

[brush]

51. Just admit it. Your arguments are pretty transparent.

And I'm done with you.

[procon]

53. Weaker still.

Better luck next time.

[brush]

73. See post 66

[RobinA]

57. By Your Reasoning

Just say you want an excuse to attack people, because that's how you are coming off.

Being able to walk calmly away from an insult is a skill. Try it sometime. It's a good feeling to realize you aren't under the control of someone's name calling.

[JonLP24]

70. LOL

Men get into physical confrontations all the time over insults to their manhood.

The N Word is never appropriate I don't feel sorry for someone who is attacked for using it.

I'm sure if someone from BLM saw this board they would laugh then leave. It is so transparent here.

[trueblue2007]

58. i would have slugged that fat Karen too. No using the N word !!!!

[whathehell]

86. ..and fat Karen would likely see your butt in jail

after reporting you for assault.

[MustLoveBeagles]

63. I don't condone the violence but I don't feel bad for the racist either

[GulfCoast66]

64. Personally I can't see responding to a verbal taunt with violence

But personally I’m a 54 year old southern white male so can’t even imagine. So where 3 months ago I might have condemned the violence, I can’t now. Because I’m would guess having an entitled white woman use that slur against her felt like an attack. But again, I’m just guessing. I can never know.

I hope the African American women does not get into too much trouble.

I bet the white women will think long and hard before calling someone that word again.

[NutmegYankee]

66. Heh, woman uses "Fighting word", then loses fight.

From LII: "Fighting words are, as first defined by the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942), words which "by their very utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality."
Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment."

The fight is still illegal, but calling her the N-word got the result it deserved. Why anyone who is white thinks they can throw that around at a person of color without a fight is beyond me.

[Initech]

68. Oh my god this year can't end soon enough.

[Quixote1818]

69. I don't care for this video. While the white lady is wrong, the reaction was too violent. nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

78. Lot of replies are telling on themselves

They either are more shocked by the word "Karen" or by the fact that a person using provoking fighting words got what was expected.

You should all reflect on the choices you made in life.

[whathehell]

85. Yes, but they're not necessarily the ones you are thinking of..

at least not in everyone's opinion.

Anyone who can't countenance an insult without respoding with physical violence, needs to reflect on the choices they make in life.

[Red Mountain]

87. I live in the South

North Carolina. I'm white and my kids are, too. I've told my kids if they use that kind of language and direct it towards a person of color they should expect a physical response. Specifically what I've told them is that 'If you call somebody a nigger you should expect to get your ass beat'. That and a lot more but that's the line that gets their attention and focuses them for the rest of the lecture. WAY too much history associated with the term in question.

It's an escalation. Decent people should never use it. Better people than they would walk away. But the best person on a bad day might not walk away.

We've all had a lot of bad days recently.

[wellst0nev0ter]

89. You're telling black people how they should properly respond to the N word

This conversation is beyond you.

[whathehell]

90. Nope

I'm simply stating the fact that physical assault isn't a legal resonse to an insult. That shouldn't be 'beyond' either of us.

[wellst0nev0ter]

91. You have more to say about the response

and people using the word Karen, than you have to say about the white woman using a racial slur.

Sit this one out.

[whathehell]

92. Wrong.

You obviously haven't read my many OTHER posts on this thread -- Maybe you should "sit this one out".

[whathehell]

94. There's no argument that the white woman shouldn't have used the n-word

Last edited Sun Jun 28, 2020, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)

That said, the black woman's behavior was appalling. Number one, she's NOT wearing a mask, and in response to the white woman's relatively calm repetion of "excuse me, excuse me", she's screaming, cursing, and hurling a torrent of abuse at her.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

97. What was accomplished for society here? A net negative.

For each interaction like this one, the struggle to reduce racism from the hearts and minds of Americans takes a step backward.

Humility is the key to most human progress that achieves brotherhood.

KY........

[whistler162]

98. More sexism from the media!

Sacramento white woman schooled by Sacramento black woman!

This idiotic sexist racist Karen meme needs to stop! It does not help fix the problems it only makes it worse.