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LiberalArkie

(15,703 posts)
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:50 AM Jun 2020

SARS-CoV-2 detected in waste waters in Barcelona on March 12, 2019

26/06/2020

COVID-19 was announced in Wuhan (China) in early December in 2019 and it would reach every place worldwide later, including Europe. The first case in Europe was announced in France in late January 2020. This chronology on the evolution of the disease can change according to a study led by the University of Barcelona, in collaboration with Aigües de Barcelona.

Researchers detected the presence of the virus that caused the disease in samples of waste water in Barcelona, collected in March 12, 2019. These results, sent to a high impact journal and published in the archive medRxiv, suggest the infection was present before knowing about any case of COVID-19 in any part of the world.

This study, which counts on the participation of the researchers of theGroup on Enteric Virus of the UB Gemma Chavarria Miró, Eduard Anfruns Estrada and Susana Guix, led by Rosa Maria Pintó and Albert Bosch, is part of the project on sentinel surveillance of SARS-CoV-2. This initiative is coordinated by this research group, in collaboration with Aigües de Barcelona and funded by the REVEAL project, from the company SUEZ, in order to detect the virus in waste waters and adopt immediate measures considering future COVID-19 outbreaks.

Snip

https://www.ub.edu/web/ub/en/menu_eines/noticies/2020/06/042.html?

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SARS-CoV-2 detected in waste waters in Barcelona on March 12, 2019 (Original Post) LiberalArkie Jun 2020 OP
I'm guessing that as more and more studies are done.... marmar Jun 2020 #1
Like a few asymptomatic global travelers doing their jet setting thing. LiberalArkie Jun 2020 #3
Fascinating Mike 03 Jun 2020 #2
The exponential curve is termed "stochastic." Igel Jun 2020 #11
This is very informative - thanks! Talitha Jun 2020 #12
What a great time to remind me DFW Jun 2020 #4
Thinking safe thoughts for you! Be well. niyad Jun 2020 #7
I should be OK DFW Jun 2020 #8
I guess if you have corona I_UndergroundPanther Jun 2020 #5
CNN had a report on sewage testing for covid19 Progressive dog Jun 2020 #6
curious if it's possible this is detecting other species' infections? unblock Jun 2020 #9
It Doesn't Specify Viable Viruses... ProfessorGAC Jun 2020 #10

marmar

(77,056 posts)
1. I'm guessing that as more and more studies are done....
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 08:55 AM
Jun 2020

.... they'll find that it was everywhere a lot earlier than thought.


Igel

(35,274 posts)
11. The exponential curve is termed "stochastic."
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:51 PM
Jun 2020

It's a fancy term for a particular kind of random.

And it's a model. The model is based on a large population, each member of which has an equal chance of running into any other member of the population under the same conditions. Think about your city or town--when you're going through your day, is every encounter with another person chance, equally likely to be anybody else in the city, and under the same circumstances?

No. We form networks. I interact with some people fairly often. Others I don't interact with at all. My interactions are not random, nor equal in context and circumstance. We live in networks that interconnect. In NYC, the networks interconnect a lot on sidewalks, crowded stores, and mass transit. Even in Texas, the spread happened first along the two north-south connectors from south to Dallas. I-35 and I-45, 45 being the stronger link.

So it's possible that this bug circulated in some networks before being noticed first in Wuhan.

With very small numbers there might not be an explosion. We see progressions like 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32 bandied about, but that's facile. What if that first person "1" doesn't run into two people that he infects? What if the second person he infects doesn't infect anybody?

Then it goes 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - for a while. Strikes me that this is very possible in narrow networks. You interact with 2-4 people per day, and it's pretty much the same people each day, you'll nail one with the virus over the course of a week. That person has the same kind of network, being the link between the one you're in and other one, and it spreads the same way. Low rates of transmission. And most of that in families. Which is what the earliest reports said.

Now, rethink that first progression. Yeah, it's

1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32

But really it's just as much

1 - 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32
... -1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32

Think of each branch as starting a new "first person". Any branch (or network) can die out. Any branch can do the 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 thing for a while.

Stochastic. Back in March a lot of states had positive test results like 3 - 6 - 4 - 3 - 4 - 6 - 8 - 5 - 6 - 3 - with no real trend. A lot of random chains with a lot of 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 transmissions. The "superspreader" finding fits in well with this. Most chains don't branch much, and many of them die out--but in some cases instead of 1 - 1 - 1 it goes 1 - 10 - 11 - 10 - 11 - 22 - as 1 spreads it to 10, then another 1 spreads it to 10. Of course, the wider it's spread, the more likely superspreaders will abound.

And early on, that superspreader may only spread it to his narrow network of 3-4 people.

Now flip the question. Don't look for "what prevented it from exploding in December?" (in Wuhan) look instead for "what caused it to explode in December in Wuhan?" This virus was around for a while. "Not exploding" is the default.

Perhaps the RNA mutated. Perhaps it just randomly hit a superspreader that chained to another superspreader? Conditions matter--damp and cold facilitate it. Crowded conditions help. Loud speaking--forceful articulation with high air flow--helps. A librarian is not likely to be a superspreader. Somebody shouting for attention in a crowded seafood market is more likely.

Suddenly it's not a person linking one network to another, but a nexus where 50 or 100 networks cross.

DFW

(54,293 posts)
8. I should be OK
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 10:50 AM
Jun 2020

I always wear my mask, and I'm only only going to see one colleague, and then flying right back to Düsseldorf.

He had a heart attack in January, so he's being ultra-careful anyway.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,462 posts)
5. I guess if you have corona
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:07 AM
Jun 2020

In your digestive track and the body
You most likely are peeing and pooping out corona.
As well as sending out virus drops from your lungs.

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
6. CNN had a report on sewage testing for covid19
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 09:41 AM
Jun 2020

in April.

Groups of scientists around the world are using wastewater testing as a non-invasive way to measure the prevalence of coronavirus in their communities.
Local governments in the US are also turning to the tests, which detect traces of coronavirus genetic material -- known as RNA -- in fecal matter.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/us/covid-19-sewage-testing/index.html

unblock

(52,118 posts)
9. curious if it's possible this is detecting other species' infections?
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:06 PM
Jun 2020

i'm not clear on where they sample the wastewater and if it's possibly "contaminated" from other sources like bird poop or if there's some point where animal poop could get mixed in? rats in the sewers or whatever?

obviously the bulk of the sewage is from humans, but is it possible that this is actually detecting it from another species?

ProfessorGAC

(64,852 posts)
10. It Doesn't Specify Viable Viruses...
Sat Jun 27, 2020, 12:12 PM
Jun 2020

...or viral materials.
It mentions virus in wastewater 5 or 6 times, but doesn't specifically say if these are viral artifacts or whole, still viable viruses.
Seems like an important distinction.

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