General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI hate the idea of Russia paying Taliban to kill Americans, but don't know why.
Russia payed N.Koreans to kill Americans.
Russia payed N.Vietnamese to kill Americans.
Russia payed Syrians to kill Americans.
Now, Russia is paying Taliban to kill Americans.
What's changed, why is this a surprise? Can someone explain it to an old Army vet? Should I be extraordinarily pissed, or just normally pissed?
egduj
(805 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)including Afghanistan.
The sanctions I want to see, are against trump.
Skittles
(153,138 posts)yup
AleksS
(1,665 posts)is paying Russia to pay the Taliban to kill our soldiers.
Our president is inviting Russia back to the G8
Our president is removing troops from Germany
Our president is rewarding Russia for putting a bounty on our soldiers.
Thats a new twist.
And it makes this time much worse.
KT2000
(20,571 posts)Russia join the G7 AFTER he knew what they did.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)in a cold war during both Korea and Vietnam...at war...as for Russia and Syria, Obama sanctioned Russia. And No one ever rewarded Russia for this behavior until Trump.
Under The Radar
(3,401 posts)Didnt Trump allow them to expire?
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)to target our men and women in the military. My Mom and Dad were Navy. I was born at Great Lakes at Illinois. My sister and brother were Marines...my older sister one of the first women Marines. I have a niece and nephew in the Navy and in the Air Force...my niece was in Afghanistan. I am extremely pissed at this. Young men and women serve honorably and don't deserve to be essentially targeted by their commander in chief.
Under The Radar
(3,401 posts)... and that Trump and Pompeo are not enforcing the sanctions that were imposed allowing Russia to purchase and receive goods from the US illegally.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)Trump is a murderer who allowed Russia to murder our soldiers and rewarded the SOB...Putin. I am enraged.
former9thward
(31,963 posts)No American troops were involved in Ukraine.
Cirque du So-What
(25,921 posts)Irretrievably pissed.
Iggo
(47,546 posts)...doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)PufPuf23
(8,760 posts)But bounty or not, Russian bounties do not appear to have had any impact.
Isn't this (financial support to proxies) business as usual and something the USA does as well?
That said I do not dismiss Trump ignoring intelligence and sniffing Putin's anus.
But the fatality facts are:
U.S. fatalities by month in only Afghanistan according to iCasualties.org
Year J F M A M J J A S O N D Total
2001 2 2 3 7
2002 10 1 9 4 1 3 0 1 0 0 0 1 30
2003 4 1 8 2 1 2 1 4 1 3 6 0 33
2004 9 2 3 1 8 4 2 3 4 5 7 1 49
2005 2 1 5 18 4 26 2 15 11 4 2 3 93
2006 1 7 7 1 11 18 9 10 6 10 7 1 88
2007 0 12 3 8 11 12 13 18 8 9 11 6 111
2008 7 1 7 5 16 28 20 22 27 16 1 3 153
2009 14 15 13 6 12 24 44 51 37 59 17 18 310
2010 30 31 24 19 34 60 65 55 42 60 53 33 496
2011 24 18 29 46 35 47 37 70 42 31 18 15 412
2012 26 10 18 34 39 29 41 39 19 17 16 13 301
2013 3 1 15 13 19 17 11 11 8 9 3 10 120
2014 7 6 0 4 4 13 3 5 5 2 3 3 54
2015 0 0 0 1 1 2 0 3 1 8 0 6 22
2016 3 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 4 1 14
2017 0 0 1 3 0 3 1 3 2 1 2 1 17
2018 1 0 0 1 0 0 2 1 2 1 5 2 15
2019 2 0 2 3 2 2 3 3 2 0 2 1 22
2020 4 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)and everybody understood the rules of the game. US did the same in Afghanistan in the 80's.
There is no comparable understanding today. Our leaders were not trying to advance Soviet interests during these proxy wars either.
Different era, different set of standards.
ogsball
(356 posts)Something weird is going on here. When Trump started screwing with Bolton he made a mistake. Bolton, an evil man is the exact right guy to take Trump down, create the power vacuum the neocons need. So this seems like this is the NeoCon move to get Trump out of the election so they can save the Senate. Bolton's book release and this national security problem. . . Coincidence? As Malcolm Nance says I don't believe in coincidence.
Watch the NeoCon Republicans they will be signaling.
IowaGuy
(778 posts)Our hands are not exactly clean as far as that tactic goes.....the crappy thing is Trump sucking up to them while they are doing that. That is the truly unforgivable sin here.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)After 9/11 Russia offered up its bases in Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan to help us to defeat the Taliban...as well as military aid they offered for free. And given they were aiding the Northern Alliance the whole time, they helped our intelligence agencies to get in contact with them and set up strategic relations.
And we took them up on the offer. All was swell until....George W. Bush went on a NATO European spree. Brow beating the other allies into accepting in nations they didn't want to defend (a Bolton construct)...even strong arming a nation or two into joining NATO when the populace didn't want it. Then we went in for the jugular, trying to get former Soviet Republics...and reality former Russian Empire conquered territories, to join NATO. Reality, NATO is a weaker alliance as a result.
Encouraging Georgia to retake disputed lands, and it was so obvious, Russia conducted military exercises next door...and we still gave them the green light. It was the EU that dissuaded Putin from just out right retaking the former republic. Sack-of-shit-villi eventually turned tail and ran to a University position in Virginia (classic CIA cover) when his corruption was exposed.
But wait! There's more! A failed color Revolution in Ukraine didn't yield the results we wanted, after the coalition we backed started fighting amongst themselves. And of course a Kremlin backed strong man took control. So another Bolton inspired operation was initiated, but not in time for the conclusion of Bush's Presidency. But there is an unwritten rule for a new President, don't mess with in progress operations (Bay of Pigs).
So with Bush...in reality, Bolton, created the over throw, in a questionable way, of Ukraine's leader. And Bam!, Russia retakes Crimea with no fight at all. The EU and USA was ready to accept this, with some token sanctions that would expire in due time. But for whatever reason that I'm not privy to, it was reneged. And so, shit goes down in east Ukraine.
So with these grievances and a number more I'm too tired to mention...and the fact we turned our attention away from the Taliban during our misguided fight with Iraq...and the clincher, with Obama, he at least committed to taking down the Taliban and Al Qaeda, which kept Putin patient...but we elected a dumb ass called Trump and despite Russia is winning diplomatic issues hand over fist... a few things still remain.
They are still sanctioned.
We gave up on eliminating the Taliban...and despite most of DU thinking Trump is in Putin's pocket, he isn't...he just has a lot to fear from them...and releasing their info on Trump doesn't exactly help them and could backfire severely. Trump's demand to remove our troops there emboldens the Taliban.
Nor were they given much acknowledgement for their help in Afghanistan...and were given bad press when they helped with the CIA black sites.
Trump should have reached out and addressed these grievances and worked something out like a true leader. If they were uncompromising, then become uncompromising on our side with sanctions, diplomacy, etc. But I have a gut feeling, Bolton has his finger prints on this....and told him not to compromise ever with a foreign nation. Granted he was already out the door, you have to think he had already set the policy in Trump's mind.
We took a possible good collaboration with Russia and flushed it down the toilet because some idiots in Bush's Presidency thought Putin should be kissing our feet. Just like Iraq, if we paid their army, they would have kept law and order...when we told them to get bent, they became insurgents.
We are in a Cold War because a lot of idiots never accepted the Cold War ended. So they created a new one.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)all kinds of "interesting" takes