Ohio. Hmm . . . do you think reopening was a bit rushed?

[Ms. Toad]

Or, maybe, face masks should have been mandated?



A bit of explanation -

I calculate the rolling average as a retroactive rolling average (7 days ending on the current day). It helps smooth out the curve (since weekends are so different than weekdays), BUT it makes it harder to pinpoint when the actual uptick began, so to pinpoint the actual start of the climb I went back to the daily data - the last four new case days in the 300s were June 6-9; since those days included two weekend (lower) days, it is impossible to tell where the actual bottom was.

Days are the horizontal axis; daily new case average is the vertical axis

Day 23 (first black square on the horizontal axis) is May 21 - the day indoor seating at bars and restaurants was permitted
Day 27 is May 25 - Memorial day
Day 28 is May 26 - the day gyms, pools, fitness centers, and dance studios were permitted to open
Day 40 (red square on the h-axis) is June 7 -17 days after May 21, when bars and restaurants opened; 13 days after Memorial Day
Day 47 (2nd black square) is June 14 - the day the average rolling average started to reflect reflected the daily upswing that started around June 7

[LisaL]

1. Just a bit.

Unfortunately cases are going up.

[Rhiannon12866]

2. None of those places are open here in NY (except outdoor seating at some restaurants)

And we appear to have one of the lowest numbers of the states now. But masks are still required everywhere.

[Ms. Toad]

5. Outdoor seating at restaurants was permitted May 15.

And masks are only required for employers.

That's why your cases are low, and ours are rising.

Mask slacker covidiots were pretty vile. Even before he announced a mask mandate, they were making an awful racket and threatening to storm the statehouse during the daily press conference. They threatened Dr. Acton believably enough that she was provided with state protection (and ultimately resigned - although she did not expressly state that was the reason). Within a day of announcing the mask requirement, DeWine withdrew it. Ostensibly because the parent of a child with autism explained why their chid couldn't wear a mask. But he also implicitly acknowledged that it would be unenforceable because of the same covidiots threatening to storm the statehouse.

[LisaL]

6. You can require masks and make exceptions for children with autism, or whoever gets a doctor's note.

Just seems like an excuse that doesn't really make sense.

[Ms. Toad]

8. Correct. That's why I phrased it the way I did.

I hate that he used a child with autism as an excuse to cave on the mask requirement.

[Rhiannon12866]

10. I agree, the exception for one child does not constitute a mandate.

Here in New York, small children aren't wearing masks, I'm not sure what the age qualification is, but the ones I've seen are toddlers - and that makes sense, though I've seen very few, the protocol is for only one person in a household to do the shopping.

[Ms. Toad]

16. People with autism grow up - and some are not diagnosed until late in life.

I have an adult friend on the autism spectrum who was just recently diagnosed (late 40s, early 50s). She's had trouble with all sorts of things like masks (scents, fabrics) for as long as I've known her. So it's not just small children impacted.

As for shopping, there are two grocery stores across the street from each other (so they serve the same geographic population). One has clear signage for 6' distancing, separate entrance and exits, marked one-way aisles, pay stations more than 6' away from the cashier (so you pay at the location where you would normally load your items on the belt), and constant announcements over the loudspeaker to maintain social distancing, pay attention to the one-way markings on the aisle, to send a single person in to shop for the family, etc.

The other barely has any markings at all. People enter and exit through the same door (even though there are two doors), no visible markings for 6' distancing, payment made within 3' of the cashier in a way that you have to step beyond the plexiglass barrier (so no more barrier).

Mask wearing in the first store has beeen over 50% everytime I've been there except for one. Most times it is in the 80-90% range. Mask wearing in the second store was around10%. I only went there once.

Messaging and examples matter - I go where I think people are taking COVID 19 seriously, and it appears like-minded people are making the same choice.

[Rhiannon12866]

9. Good grief! I really don't understand these mask rebels. Do they really believe they're immune??

Masks are required everywhere here, grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations - but those were the only places open until recently. And many of those places limit the number of shoppers allowed inside at one time. I go to all the same places - same grocery, pet supply store and gas station - since I've learned the protocol.

And I only make one trip a week rather than stopping wherever when I need something. But I have noticed a few without masks just lately. I stopped at a gas station/convenience store the last time I was out and waited in my car while a group of young guys without masks kept running in and out. But when I finally went in, a couple without masks was leaving the store and there was a guy inside wandering the small store chatting on his cell phone also not wearing a mask. From now on, I'm avoiding going there. While all the employees are wearing the mandated masks, who is supposed to enforce the notice posted on the door, the 20-something person at the checkout??

[Ms. Toad]

11. I don't understand them either.

They've got a bee in their bonnet that it is all about control and can't seem to grasp that the same kind of concerns dictated no indoor smoking, wearing shoes, and wearing shirts in commercial establishments, none of which th~ey seem to have a problem with.

I've been out perhaps a dozen times. My gas tank will take me roughly 400 miles. I'll have to fill it the next time I'm out - the first since ~ March 6. Each trip is a minimum of 20 miles, since we live a minimum of 10 miles from any significant grocery store (and often longer because I'm doing the same thing you do - combining everything I need to do in one trip), and I've had at least one 100+ mile trip, since my cancer doctor is 50 miles away.

Here's a couple of our charmers:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200413/gop-lawmakers-protesters-call-on-dewine-to-begin-re-opening-ohio

[Rhiannon12866]

15. You're very right, wearing shirts and shoes doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone

Though going shirtless would be much less likely to infect them with a deadly virus, and shirts and shoes are certainly enforced. The issue has become, as has been said, a political statement - which is very foolish since lives are on the line. Since the pandemic and the number of hospitalizations - and deaths - is all over the news everywhere, I can't see how anyone could possibly be unaware of the dangers.

Other than my weekly trip for necessities, I've only been to the dentist once when I was having an issue and I know and trust my dentist, I've gone to her for years and I was the only one there besides my dentist and her assistant. And they wear masks and gloves anyway. I also kept a previously scheduled vet appointment for my dog back in March and I was met by a vet tech wearing a mask and gown, she took my dog while I waited in my car and spoke to the vet over the phone. I've also had a sinus infection, last saw the doctor in February. It hasn't gone away, despite having gone through 3 prescriptions, and I should go back since I feel pretty crappy, but until recently they were only having phone appointments and I wasn't anxious to go into a doctor's office, anyway. I should call them this week.

And how can these people be unaware of the spread of this virus?? They think they know more than the experts?? If they live in an area where they can get away with not wearing masks, they must know people who have gotten sick or even died...

[Ms. Toad]

17. I try to avoid saying that mask wearing is a political issue - it isn't. It's a public health issue

Refusing to wear a mask, on the other hand, is purely political. A store recently announced that they were not going to wear masks because they didn't want to become involved in a political issue. From my perspective, there is absolutely no reason to get involved in politics in order to impose a mask requirement. Lots of things are inherently political. This isn't one of them - this one is political only on one side. I try to keep hammering that point home - it is not a matter of political difference. It is purely a health matter, until the point at which one side refuses to recognize that science exists.

Unfortunately, I had a root canal that took two trips, and my daughter brought home a cat that needed to be neutered (which took two trips), and my post-cancer care took one trip and one telemed visit. Aside from that, I go shopping about every other week. A lot of doctors are doing telemedicine - you might see if your doctor can do that for your sinus infection (although that's something that they ought to culture so they can see if they have you on the right antibiotic (or if it is bacterial at all).

[Rhiannon12866]

20. I sure agree, it's hardly political and has been said many times, it isn't political anywhere else

And that's the reason other countries are beating this thing while here we seem to have a resurgence, in 17 states, last I heard. If people are going to be idiots, that's when the enforcers have to step in. I've been a little anxious since I live in a seasonal tourist area, just south of Lake George, and last week when I went out, I saw cars from Virginia, Tennessee and Florida! If some locals are blowing off wearing masks, what's going to happen with those who never bothered? I'm right on board with Governor Cuomo imposing the quarantine he's proposed. This is nothing to fool with!

Ouch for the root canal! My dentist said I may need one, but she prescribed an antibiotic in the interim instead. And good for taking care of the kitty. I was fine at the vet with the animals, it was the people wandering around that I was worried about. Back in March, nobody was observing the strict precautions that the vet's office was. My poor pup had suffered from a skin infection, but he was given a good report from the vet, looked like he was over it, but he was given an anti-itch prescription and a supplement to make sure. I'd been taking him for a medicated bath and a haircut every month and that had done the job, but then his groomer moved his April appointment to May then just up and canceled that one. They closed down for the duration. So now he's all itchy all over again and I'm going to try again tomorrow to see if they're seeing dogs yet.

I know I should try my doctor, too. She said if the last prescription didn't help, she was sending me to an eye, nose and throat specialist, but then everything shut down. But I need to take care of my poor pup first. He turned 14 in March.

[Ms. Toad]

23. Cute pup!

Our vet is doing the call when you get here, we'll come out and get the pet and call when we're done. Since our vet has become a friend, I was sad I'd miss the chat we have during the visit - but we got to chat on the call anyway.

I know it's a pain now - but if your ENT suggests "roto-rootering" it out, it's one of the best things my spouse ever did to reduce recurrent/persistent sinus infections. She's recently been suggesting it's time for another.

[Rhiannon12866]

24. Well, I had to bring the dog in and then get him when they were done

But any contact with the vet was done over the phone with me sitting in my car in the parking lot. It seemed like it took longer, but then I was grateful since I sat through a thunderstorm and was grateful that he wasn't ready till it was over! And we did have more than one chat on the phone, though I never did see her!

And what does "roto-rootering" mean? Sounds unpleasant. This has obviously been going on for quite some time and none of the meds they gave me seemed to help. I also invested in one of those Navage flushing machines that I saw on TV, but that hasn't helped, either. I tried that after a friend suggested neti potting, but I just can't do that. And my doctor's PA said she doesn't blame me, equated it to waterboarding!

[Ms. Toad]

25. Cleaning out the sinus cavities -

Done under anesthesia (although there was an awake scope to see if the clean-out was needed). She's had severe allergies since she was small. She's in her late 60s now. Her nasal passages swelled shut because of inflammation/scarring from the allergies. That made it hard to get rid of sinus infections (and really awful headaches, sharp pain when flying, etc.) So they went in and enlarged the passages (like you hire a plumber to do with your drain when it backs up).

At least my daughter, and at one point my spouse, used the lavage squirt bottle. My daughter uses it almost every day. It works similarly to the Neti pot, except since you squeeze the bottle the water goes through faster than it does with the neti pot. I've got friends who swear by it. I'm not sure why the neti pot (or the squirt bottle) would be a very different sensation than the Navage machine.

[Rhiannon12866]

26. Well, the sinus headaches come and go

But I sneeze and blow my nose a lot and just feel rotten a lot of the time. It's not something that was chronic with me - until now. I think my initial mistake was going during their "urgent care" hours (evenings) the first two times where I just saw anyone who happened to be on duty. So the last 2 times I saw my doctor's new PA by appointment in the afternoon and I liked her a lot, but neither of the prescriptions she gave me seemed to help. She also had me get a chest X-Ray and bloodwork which revealed that I need to up my thyroid replcement med, so she's thorough. And I had no chest congestion initially, it's been so long that now I cough too. And so wearing a mask has become a real PIA, I take it off as soon as I get in the car.

And here's the Navage contraption, though I don't remember paying so much - and my brother set me one, so now I have 2!

https://www.amazon.com/Navage-Nasal-Irrigation-Basic-Bundle/dp/B01787L6QY/ref=pd_lpo_121_t_0/139-4698640-6246346?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01787L6QY&pd_rd_r=f3b37842-528d-40b1-8a5d-d975b5eeffaa&pd_rd_w=Ionr3&pd_rd_wg=scwdU&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=FDMHD3CRSAVC69BG0BRD&psc=1&refRID=FDMHD3CRSAVC69BG0BRD

[Ms. Toad]

27. They all three work on the same basic principle

Running water through the sinus cavities. Navage both pushes and pulls it through, the squeeze bottle pushes it through, and the neti pot uses gravity. I would think you've already tried the most uncomfortable version. I saw the videos on it last night. One practiced user, who made it seem trivially easy to use, and two others who were silly enough to film their first use - who both ended up with water ask over the place, choking and sputtering, and with tears in their eyes. So there is obviously a learning curve.

Hashimotos thyroid? I got all three of the hereditary illnesses in my family the year I turned 60, including this cute little autoimmune critter. (It's the most common reason for needing thyroid replacement meds.

Good luck!

[Rhiannon12866]

33. Thanks! Wishing you a return to optimum health, too - especially now!

And I take 2 meds, I'm low thyroid and high cholesterol (though I rarely eat meat). My doctor told me that it's hereditary since my mother had and took just the same things.

[Ms. Toad]

35. I'm currently battling my doctor on cholesterol meds.

Statins block production of cellular cholesterol, so the cells grab it out of the blood. It's a really effective trick to lower serum cholesterol. But because statins block not only the production of cellular cholesterol, but also block the production of a whole host of other things that your body also needs I don't want to take statins just becuase I have diabetes (one of the 3 family diseases I was diagnosed with in my 60th year). Unfortunately the current mantra is that diabetes=> statins.

By any risk calculator, even when my cholesterol was at its worst levels between 2013 and now, my 10-year risk of a heart attack is somewhere between 1% and 6.5%. Any research that differentiates among people with diabetes suggests 10% - 10-year risk is the point at which you should have a discussion about risks/benefits of statins, since at the lower end of the risk scale statins can increase your risk of a heart attack (by weakening muscles, including heart muscles and hardening arteries), not to mention impacting memory (and I do have some family history for dementia, unlike my non-existent family history of heart attacks). When you need them, they are fantastic, very effective meds. But they aren't without risks, which too many doctors ignore.

But - my numbers were improved enough when I saw him a couple of weeks ago that I didn't even need to break out my research to convince him. He never even mentioned statins this time. Now I just have to keep the numbers in the range he's happy with - even though I've run enough risk calculators to know I'm not at a risk level that I think justifies statins yet.

Your doctor may not have checked for the cause of your low thyroid. Mine's a bit of a geek about it, so he ran the tests to establish it's an autoimune disorder (Hashimoto's). Most people just take synthroid and don't track down the details. (My father has it - but his doctor didn't expressly diagnose the autoimmune disorder. Since I have it, it's a pretty good bet that it is the cause of his, as well.)

[Rhiannon12866]

36. You bring up some very good points, thanks for educating me!

I've taken the thyroid meds for quite a few years, get bloodwork occasionally and it's been adjusted over the years, most recently in February when my doctor's new PA ordered the chest X-Ray and bloodwork. The cholesterol med is more recent and I wouldn't have thought I was a likely candidate, but when I was told that both issues were hereditary since my mother took the same things, I didn't think much more about it, I just take two little pills and figured there wasn't much else I could do about it.

You're much more proactive than I am, guess I'd better start asking some questions - when I can go back, that is. Most of the times I've gotten bloodwork, I was told that everything was okay now so I just figured this was the end of it. The last time I had a physical was over 2 years ago and I still have a resentment about that. I was told that they wouldn't refill my prescriptions without one, so I went in as soon as possible and got stuck with some nurse practitioner who never came near me, sat on the other side of the room with her laptop and just asked questions - and none of the usual bloodwork. They could have done the same thing over the phone, yet charged me quite a bit!

I knew both of my doctor's PAs quite well, they knew me and I was fine with them. So if I was sick, that's who I saw since seeing the actual MD requires scheduling way ahead of time. But both of them have since left the practice, including one I knew for years (and is "one of us" ), and though I liked his new PA who I saw twice at the beginning of the year, she was pretty thorough and proactive, I think it's long past time that I check in with my MD - when I can.

And I really appreciate the education. I never considered the long-term side effects. My mother did have some dementia, but then so did her mother. My paternal grandmother lived to 98 and was sharp as a tack - for someone in her 90s! I hope that you're able to manage your diabetes since it does increase your risk. I'm fortunate that none in my family ever had that, though on one side of the family or the other, they had everything else! Stay well, my friend, and keep safe!

[sir pball]

28. Most of the state is open, actually.

We're still in phase 2 (6-foot spacing outdoor restaurants) in NYC, but Long Island and the Hudson valley regions are in phase 3 (50% capacity/6-foot spacing indoor restaurants) while the rest of the state is phase 4*.

We're scheduled to move to phase 3 on July 6th; I expect that will last about a month before we have to start dialing it back. It just isn't possible to open to that degree without a vaccine.

* - more detailed info on reopening plans/phases

[Rhiannon12866]

34. Thanks for the great information!

Since we're in Warren County (just south of Lake George), I figured that we'd be considered part of The North Country. But after reading that, I guess I should be grateful. As I said upthread, I'm anxious about "opening" up much of anything since we've done comparatively well so far *knock on wood*, but I'm anxious about what the coming tourist season will bring since the influx invariably spills over to where I drive and shop...

[Demsrule86]

3. I live in Ohio. It is going to be shutdown again I think. Sonce i am unemployed

not good news. This entire pandemic has been a shit show.

[Ms. Toad]

4. DeWine was actually good (much to my surprise)

Until he backed off on the face mask requirement - and announced he was relying on Ohioans to be responsible.

It's been downhill from there. He is at least showing concern about the numbers in the 4-county Cincinnati region, but he's suggesting the shutdwon (or mask mandate) will be local.

Have you tried here: https://jobsearch.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/jobsearch/

I typed in my zip code and (theoretically) there are 1000+ jobs within 10 miles of me (although looking at the city names, I suspect they list all jobs for the same company if even one is within the search radius. Worth a shot, anyway.

[LisaL]

7. Like I said before, bottom line is, he is still a Republican.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

30. I was SHOCKED by his proactive response early...

... during the pandemic, since he's a Republican, but the typical non-cooperative attitude emerged eventually.

[LuckyCharms]

12. Maybe just a tad bit. A smidge,

[Ms. Toad]

13. Yeah. Waiting another day or two would have been great.

[LuckyCharms]

14. If I were king...

I would have shut the country down immediately when the virus arrived, and I would have ensured a national plan was in place before that even happened. My only decision point would have been...ok let's see what has happened in other countries. Hmmm...ok...that's what's going to happen here then. That's what the virus will do here.

Then I would have been on TV every night with the message...We bite the bullet now and shut down for 60 days, or we drag this out for 2 years. Which do you think is better?

I've never agreed with not having a national response that is well coordinated from the get go. People travel. There are no walls around states.

[Tipperary]

18. Watching Pence suggest masks today was surreal.

The man must have no center at all.

[Ms. Toad]

19. I missed that.

You're right - surreal.

DeWine avoided telling Pence he needed to be wearing a mask just 3 days ago. DeWine has been leading by example (he always wears a mask into his twice weekly press conference, frequently features doctors and survivors talking about how awful the illness is & how much masks helps) and he all but called Pence an idiot for not wearing one . . . but stopped short of telling the idiot to wear one. (I wish DeWine would just make it mandatory.)

So that's a Pence 180 in 3 days.

[Tipperary]

21. I was in and out of the house, but I think he was in Texas.

He was not wearing a mask, but he was telling people to do so. They have so screwed this pandemic up, it is as if they meant to.

[Ms. Toad]

22. I found a few commentaries on it.

He apparently was wearing a mask, except for when he was speaking.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

29. As a fellow Ohioan... yes!

Masks should have been mandated months ago, as DeWine originally stated until quickly backing down.

Bars, gyms and other places with reckless breathing behavior as the norm should've remained closed unless the places could demonstrate innovative ideas to break from the norm.

[Bantamfancier]

31. My beef with DeWine is that he basically punted.

And left the rules/ decisions up to the local ( county ) health departments.
So you’ve got a patchwork of differing rules depending on where you’re at.

Being on the local fairboard, we made the call last month to cancel rides and entertainment. Only having the junior fair so the kids could exhibit their projects. Other counties next to us are going ahead with full blown fairs because their HD says it’s no big deal.

I’ve been telling them it’s coming here since the Memorial Day opening and I observed a relaxation of people with mask wearing and distancing. I was getting the RW talking points that it’s going away and it’ll never get bad here because of our location.

So, is it too soon to say to my fellow directors “ I told you so”?

[Ms. Toad]

32. Not too soon.

My spouse is on the local health board. Not sure she's the best advocate for good decisions, since she has been making her own exceptions to the rules since day 1. Today she is going to someone's home, she thinks, to write a power of attorney for a sick relative of theirs. The last time she did this, she did at least agree to meet outside. This time i asked where they were meeting, she said in his home, she thinks.

Argh.

Out would be so much easier with uniform rules, starting with a mandatory mask requirement.