I just heard something interesting from a Rethug Insider here in Philly

[PCIntern]

This gentleman is nationally connected. I’ve known him for a very long time and he’s not insignificant.

He despises Trump for a variety of reasons, almost all of them sound. He told me a couple interesting things on the fly and I thought I would mention them here for review. I’m just going to tell you what he said, and not whether I think they’re necessarily true or not.

He said the reason McCain chose Palin was they sat down with him and said you have no hope of winning the election at all whatsoever. McCain went for the Hail Mary, and thought he had done the right thing until she opened her mouth. and then he knew he was finished.

This gentleman to whom I spoke and apparently many others think Trump is going to resign and allow Pence to pardon him and his family members and as they say, cut and run. He stated that the state crimes can be handled via attorneys and they are much less concerned with them Thanfederal crimes.

This gentleman feels that Trump has no hope of winning the election and will be down to about 35 to 37% by election day. No I’ve known this guy for years and he is not one for hyperbole or BS.

[Captain Zero]

1. Interesting

nt

[evilhime]

76. That wouldn't be good

It would be better to have him gone but Pence actually has a chance of winning back the voters who like his "Christian" stand and lack of craziness and that I find very scary. Pence is as bad or worse than Trump, but he covers it much better. I think we need to bear with the orangupresident for awhile longer and destroy him at the polls.

[Eyeball_Kid]

89. Pence will have a worse case of "Ford's Folly" than Ford himself.

Gerald Ford lost his bid for election when he pardoned Nixon.

No one likes it when justice is denied by a pardon to a clearly guilty person. Nixon was clearly guilty. So is Trump. If Pence pardons, his election chances dive to zero, along with the entire GOP. That's because all of the GOP will support a pardon as well. They trapped themselves into never parting from Trump by way of their present silence. They will NEVER be able to justify kicking Trump when he's down because they are so cowardly when he's in power. The entire party has bent over in service to Trump. They all know it. When he goes, they go.

[Turbineguy]

157. Maybe the destruction of the repulican party

would allow them to start over. There was a time long ago, that the republican party attracted smart, upright Americans.

[DonaldsRump]

171. If Trump doesn't run and Pence is the nominee

Pence will NOT pardon Trump and his family until AFTER November 3. Even if Pence were to lose, he would have full pardoning powers until January 20, 2021 at noon.

[Jarqui]

195. +1

Though I do not think Pence will be running.

They'll parachute someone in - probably late to minimize vetting and try to have the new kid shine carry through until Nov 3rd.

I'm suspicious they've been grooming Nikki Haley for a while.

[PJMcK]

201. I don't think Haley would do it

She has far too much ambition and if the GOP parachutes another candidate in at the last minute, that person will be a sacrificial lamb. There is no way a last minute Republican candidate will save the day for them and that individual would be scarred for life.

If Haley were to agree to such a scheme, her political career would be finished. I think she wants to wait for 2024 to make her play.

If the Republicans tried something like you're suggesting, the obvious choices would be Pence, Romney or maybe some Republican governor though it's hard to see how any of them would commit political suicide.

[wnylib]

208. I don't think Ford had a legal leg to

stand on, but nobody challenged him because the nation was weary.

How can you pardon a conviction that has not yet happened? To do so is to say that the person being pardoned (without a trial or conviction) is above the law and cannot be tried for anything. Sets a bad precedent if every office holder believes he or she can do anything with impunity so long as a pardon is arranged.

If there really is such a plan, and this is not just idle gossip rumor, legal experts need to speak up now in advance.

[certainot]

125. pence is not royal material. his certitude doesn't sell to authoritarians like trump's

pence actually has a sense of lying when he lies.

pelosi the other night may have been foretelling some of this. it struck me while she was basically calling trump a traitor and putin tool she managed to say she felt sorry for what pence had to go through, as if signaling she thought pence was obeying orders, had to do what he's doing - and she could work with him

the other thing is with limbaugh dying trump is losing his most important weapon for excusing, policing, and intimidating.

there are many gop senators who depend on talk radio stations to keep getting elected - and with that finely tuned messaging juggernaut falling apart and possibly not being there, not threatening them with primaries etc, they're thinking more and more they might want to dump his ass

[Ms. Toad]

129. He doesn't have to resign before the election.

If he resigns after the election, Pence will have the lame duck remainder of the term and still be able to pardon everyone.

[Orangepeel]

144. but why would he?

I think the posted scenario is highly unlikely (at best), but I think the plot line is that stepping down and letting Pence run would be the payoff to Pence for the pardon.

[Chemisse]

165. Also Trump then doesn't have to endure losing, which may be a major factor for him. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

176. That isn't what the scenario says.

This gentleman to whom I spoke and apparently many others think Trump is going to resign and allow Pence to pardon him and his family members and as they say, cut and run. He stated that the state crimes can be handled via attorneys and they are much less concerned with them Thanfederal crimes.

The OP said nothing about letting Pence run; only about Letting Pence pardon him. As long as he steps down before inauguration day, Pence becomes president and can pardon him. He does not have to allow Pence to run.

[COL Mustard]

178. The irony would be

If Trump resigned, and Pence lost in the General, and didn't pardon Trump.

The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy's enemy. (Don't ask me to type that after more than two glasses of wine.

[seta1950]

132. I agree

Pence is just as bad in a sneaky way

[olegramps]

92. If this somebody had any ethics and morals he would be saying it publically.

[citizen blues]

148. I get why they're talking about Trump resigning and Pence pardoning him before the election.

It gives Pence the opportunity to choose a VP. If they waited until after Trump loses, then the VP slot remains empty after Pence becomes President. This way, after the election, Pence can also resign and have whoever his VP is ascend to the Presidency and pardon Pence too.

Two things:

1) Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt and a forfeiture of 5th amendment rights. Sounds like a witness list in the making for any and all GOP operatives and enablers regardless of what their position is as of January 2021.

2) The state prosecutions will continue. The likes of collaborators such as Don Jr. would definitely fair better at Club Fed than they would at Rikers.

As things get uncovered, people are going to demand accountability and justice. This pardon free-for-all is a ploy they're going to regret.

[LiberalFighter]

154. When there is a VP vacancy the President nominates and Congress confirms.

[citizen blues]

155. Right.

How likely do you think anyone's going to be confirmed after the election with a GOP loss? This way, they can assure the spot is filled, and Pence is guaranteed his pardon.

[SallyHemmings]

164. Remember Barr helped Papa Bear Bush

pardon the criminals in his administration.

[VMA131Marine]

190. Trump pardons Pence first ...

Resigns so Pence becomes President. The Pence pardons Trump. It’s corrupt as hell but this is the system we have.

[MLAA]

2. Interesting

I hope he doesn’t resign and instead is humiliated and goes to prison accompanied by his spawn (except Baron and Tiffany). Leaving Melania flat ass broke.

[Scarsdale]

64. Her parents depend on her, too.

They live in tRump Tower, and fly back and forth to Mar-A-Lardo. I wonder where their income comes from?? She was a factory worker, and he was a chauffer (sp?) and a Communist Party member. How did HE get visa to enter the US?

[Ms. Toad]

131. Chain migration.

You that thing that Trump hates for everyone else, but loves for himself and his cronies.

. . . No, wait, that was voting by mail. Maybe it's a pattern.

[SunSeeker]

143. Yup. And Melania brought her sister over here too, 4 people total using chain migration.

And that's after Melania came here and illegally worked "modeling" gigs with her tourist visa...until she hooked up with Trump.

[lagomorph777]

81. He'll never resign.

He'll have to be dragged out by the hairpiece.

[TimeToGo]

109. I have a hard time thinking he will resign

Maybe, maybe, not seek reelection. But even that . . .

[lagomorph777]

113. No, his survival depends on getting installed again.

If he fails, he will die in jail, or be hounded by his creditor, Putin, for the rest of his brief life, and end up falling out of a window or drinking polonium.

[alfredo]

187. Either way, trump won't show for the inauguration.

[Frustratedlady]

3. As for McCain's reason for choosing Palin, the first visual that comes to mind, is...

of McCain staring at her butt (as she gave her initial speech at the convention) and twisting his wedding band around and around and around, as though he was making another decision.

He paid dearly for that mistake, both in support and in funds to clothe her entire family. Those costs never ended until he lost. You just brought that whole fiasco back to mind. What a time that was!

[PCIntern]

5. No question

A great percentage of his decision was based on her looks. Such as they are as one comedian said, if you want pets through on the street it would look twice. But as politicians go she was a little bit above mediocre in that regard.

Not that I judge anyone by their looks.

[TlalocW]

88. It wasn't just looks

It was an attitude of, "Hey, we can get the Hillary voters upset about Barack getting the nomination because the dears obviously don't have actual political opinions beyond wanting to vote for a fellow woman." It's a variation on the theme of, "We ran a Black guy for <insert office>. Why didn't his fellow Blacks vote for him? It's not like they care about policy."

TlalocW

[The Mouth]

173. And a particular type of charisma

I noticed several of my co-workers regarding her as 'authentic', and 'one of us'. Dangerous. If she hadn't have been a word-salad trainwreck we could have been in trouble.

[stopbush]

111. McCain got a boner, Palin got the nod. It's that simple.

[TimeToGo]

112. I wonder

I wonder though -- if McCain had picked someone with more substance -- could he have won. I know VPs aren't supposed to add or subtract that much -- but in that case, I'm not so sure. Obviously, the economic crisis happened as well, but that pick really hurt him.

[phylny]

119. Former Republicans in my family did not vote for McCain

because of Palin.

Now they can’t stand Trump.

[COL Mustard]

179. In Those Days I Voted Reliably Republican

But I couldn't vote for McCain/Palin. She cost him my vote.

[certainot]

116. it was putin. manafort was mccains campaign cochair. limbaugh would not support mccain

until minutes after the the palin for VP announcement. that was timed for minutes before the start of the friday limbaugh show the friday before the GOP convention. it would have been a disaster without limbaugh's blessing. palin was a talk radio dittohead and was being wooed by russian oil and gas.

on fridays he used to take a few calls. how many of those came from russsia?

establishment GOP nor mccain wanted palin- like they didn't want trump but his partner in crime limbaugh insisted. mccain wanted lieberman or pawlenty. gop establishment would take them before palin - the teabag dittoheads were getting too radical.

putin has been using limbaugh since at least 2008

[Frustratedlady]

123. Speaking of Limpballs, is he still broadcasting?

Whatever happened to the Stage 4? If that wasn't true, can we demand the medal (he never should have been awarded) be returned?

He's another who has done irreparable damage to this country.

[certainot]

130. he comes in for a day or few then can't make it in for a while. the whole talk radio-led

rw media was built around him so there is a lot of ad money at stake and the ad industry must be nervous. no one guy can take his leadership role in laying out the talking points for all the other blowhards to follow, whether from the GOP or from the kremlin. and that single minded army of dittoheads wont be there to police the others

[Frustratedlady]

135. Karma is a bitch. I know one of his long-time followers and will be glad when he no longer spews

his venom. Maybe this person will learn he has been on the wrong side of history.

Thanks for the update.

[usaf-vet]

124. To the whole entourage that brought her in she was MILF. As an ex-medic, I would have enjoyed......

..... dispensing the IM penicillin into each one of those idiots. I thought that 5 minutes after she opened her mouth and hold the same belief today.

[Chemisse]

168. I disagree. He wanted Joe Leiberman, who was an ugly cuss.

But he was advised that Leiberman was a losing choice.

[MontanaMama]

4. Makes sense...

I am not sure what to hope for. I want him to do prison time so badly and I know that that is unlikely.

[Freddie]

6. Did he mention who he thinks would run in his place?

I’m scared they would pick someone who appears “moderate” (Romney, the gov of Ohio) and fool people that Repugs are ok again, and after all we Dems kill babies and want to take your guns away.
I think Pence would lose and they probably know that too.

[brush]

18. Didn't he say Pence would pardon him? IMO that implies it would be Pence.

I'm thinking right about now trump is wishing he'd never thought about running for president. He's fucked up everything he's touched—covid, the economy, racial justice, international relations, our election system, you name it.

[genxlib]

51. In theory

He could resign and make Pence President without needing him to get elected.

I'm not saying it is likely, but that would be the only way he could make sure he had a loyal successor to give him a pardon.

It would also be the way that Pence would not necessarily be the one to run in his place. Although he would be the logical choice. But I could see the Party doing something different if he came with the additional stink of a pardon.

[brush]

55. If he resigns I think Pence automatically becomes president.

Just as Ford became president when Nixon resigned.

[genxlib]

84. Yeah, that is what I meant

I phrased it awkwardly but he would have to quit for that to happen. Running out his term would leave him at the whims of the next guy. But quitting early would automatically elevate Pence

[Manifestor_of_Light]

193. I think a lot of us here remember

the days of the revolving door Vice Presidency? Agnew, Rockefeller, Ford. Nelson Rockefeller was one of those moderate Repubs that they just don't have anymore. Pro-choice and somewhat progressive on social issues, and conservative in the sense of worrying about the national debt and the deficit.

[FakeNoose]

203. Nelson Rockefeller would have been a good President IMHO

It's sad that he didn't live long enough to try for it. I lived in upstate NY for many years and I voted for Rocky for Governor in 1972.

For many years I was independent, even though I voted as a Dem probably 95% of the time. Finally in 2008 I realized there will never be a Republican that I'd ever vote for (Rockefeller and other good guys were long gone) and I joined the Democratic Party. I have no regrets about that!

[thesquanderer]

70. If Biden wins, Trump can resign between election day and inauguration day...

...so that Pence can pardon him.

[niyad]

69. I keep pointing out to iq45* that if he just stayed a lousy salesman in NY, we would not

have really cared about his corruption and evil (not speaking for SDNY here, they are different). We would not care that he is mobbed up, loves pootie, owes billions, and fails at everything. pagr6 could keep on reporting on his activities, and nude model could keep shopping.

He brought this all on himself.

[Ms. Toad]

137. The OP, at least, didn't set out the timing.

Trump could lose, then resign, and Pence could pardon to his heart's content in the lame-duck term.

[jimlup]

205. I don't think his thinking is that clear...

I think that he thinks that we fucked everything up. "If only we'd leave him to his fantasy of how things are then they would be that way." That's the translation of what he's thinking into rational language.

He's absolutely very deluded to the point of open insanity. We need to keep that in mind as we evict him.

[volstork]

49. Has the deadline for filing

to be on the ballot passed in any states? That may be a determining factor.

[LiberalFighter]

156. Filings occur after the national conventions.

[catbyte]

60. At this point, it would have to be pence because of the time. I suppose they could nominate

someone else at the convention, but they're so firmly ensconced in The Cult mentality that they wouldn't dare upset the base because pence was Dear Leader's "chosen one."

On edit: Unless david duke is available.

[JI7]

114. Romney has no chance if winning against Biden and even less chance

of getting the Republican nomination.

[oldsoftie]

153. Wouldnt work. The RW wont vote for a "RINO" even if it means an evil Democrat wins.

I know several who wouldnt vote for Romney because he was a Mormon.
I said to one, "So I guess you support Obama then?"
Blank stare

[MaryMagdaline]

7. This may just be wishful thinking in your friend's part

But just the fact that insiders are wishing him to resign is a good sign. People, especially fascists, hate losers. If they share their thoughts with other republicans, ie that trump is a loser, some may jump ship. My Republican partner voted for Obama when Palin was named. He did not want to be part of a losing team. (Business partner not romantic partner)

[dutch777]

8. Time will tell but I can't see Trump cut and run on the national stage

That said, I would be more than happy if the scenario of Trump leaving early, even with a pardon insured, came to pass. The sooner the better. I guess the question is, assuming Pence will be painted with Trump's stench and not get elected and Biden prevails, Trump's federal criminal prosecutions will linger well into the next Presidency. What can Pence pardon him for prior to this administration's departure in Jan 2021 and with some criminal acts maybe not even charged? And I would assume NY state and others will find even more furtile ground to look at Trump family enterprises, taxes, financial shenanigans and so on for some time to come. Like as long as DT lives and maybe beyond. Might be nice to be rich but if you have the IRS, NY state and everyone else watching your every move for the rest of your life, that isn't the most fun in the world for a rich person.

I also wonder if Trump makes it through the RN convention and is the nominee, what is the process if he cuts and runs after? Does it automatically go to Pence and he picks a new VP running mate and that's it? Or is it possible the party wants a clean slate and somehow can pick a new team with less awful history? Will be interesting to watch should this come to pass.

On the McCain thing, I have to believe someone has written a book that had an inside view that could validate this. I feel very bad for John McCain. While I certainly did not have much in way of policy that I agreed with him on, I thought he was largely one of the more honorable old school politicians. I hated how GWB II slandered him in the Rep primary back then and Trump's bashing him on his military record was one of the most shameful things ever. The man gave a lot for this country and his vote to keep Obamacare was monumental and a great payback to Trump's meanness. Rest in Peace sir!

[lastlib]

25. A pardon can be pre-emptive (as Nixon's was)....

There doesn't have to be any charges pending--just make the pardon for "any offenses against the United States." Nixon was not charged with any crime when Ford issued the pardon, and that blocked any subsequent prosecution against him. Pence could do the same for Shitgibbon. --- and if he gets the chance, he will. ---

[Downtown Hound]

67. Trump has a million potential state charges waiting for him

And Pence can't pardon him for those.

[lastlib]

71. That may be our best hope.

Fingers crossed.

[sanatanadharma]

121. Nixon was given immunity, not a pardon

Call it what you will, a pardon is for a crime. Without a conviction, it is immunity.
I believe the Ford pardon precedent could be reversed.
Doesn't accepting a pardon come with implicit acknowledgment of guilt?

A pardon for "any offenses against the United States" could allow Trump to engage in federal crimes of his choice without worry.
In other words, an immunity. I doubt the constitution was meant to free the tyrants from all oversight.

[lastlib]

140. The President issuing the pardon can make it applicable....

...to past offenses only, at his discretion. Nixon's pardon (it WAS a pardon, not immunity) was for any offenses committed during his term in office.

https://watergate.info/1974/09/08/text-of-ford-pardon-proclamation.html

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.

A pardon carries an imputation of guilt, and its acceptance carries an admission of guilt. Burdick v. United States, 1915 (U.S. Supreme Court)

[sanatanadharma]

145. Curious I am, how much discretion the Prez has

"The President issuing the pardon can make it applicable to past offenses only, at his discretion"

Does the President have the discretion to apply a pardon to future crimes.

Time to Twitter-verse this factoid to the Donald: Pardon's, like coronavirus, carry unseen results.
"A pardon carries an imputation of guilt, and its acceptance carries an admission of guilt. Burdick v. United States, 1915 (U.S. Supreme Court)".

Hard to plead innocent to a criminal-act (under state as well as federal laws) to which one has accepted guilt.

[3Hotdogs]

101. McCain lost it for me... Bush cronies insult his daughter.

He responds a couple of months later, "I support George Bush." ... accompanied by a big bear hug.


Same as Gropenfuhrer insulting Cruz's wife.

[3catwoman3]

127. If I were Mrs. Cruz (perish the thought)...

... , Mr.Cruz would be sleeping in the garage.

[malaise]

9. Thanks for this

K & R

[pnwmom]

10. And then Pence will run with Nikki Haley. Which I had always thought would happen

if Trump had actually been impeached and convicted.

[Siwsan]

22. Would "Mother" allow that?

At some point, he'd have to be nearly alone with her.

[pnwmom]

41. Sure she would.

It's all an act.

[Ms. Toad]

139. Unless Trump waits until after the election to resign. n/t

[oldsoftie]

151. I agree. Haley always had the backhanded way of "agreeing" with trump.

he was too stupid to know she was slighting him
I think she would be a formidable opponent.

[Liberal In Texas]

11. If that happens, just watch The Lincoln Project do a 180 and go after Biden. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

14. I Don't Think They Like Pence Either

Schmidt blames him for enabling PINO so greatly. And, he thinks he's a phony.
The Lincoln Project folks are against the whole gang, not just PINO.

[leftieNanner]

15. I don't think they will

They have been going after Republican Senators too this cycle. I think they want to sweep out the toxic shit in their party and start to rebuild.

We shall see.

[tblue37]

45. Rick Wilson says Trumpism just be rooted out--including his enablers. I'll keep my fingers crossed

for that.

[JI7]

106. You should actually listen to the LP people. They like Biden

and trump isn't they only Republican they hate.

they run ads against other Republicans also.

[JI7]

107. they hate Pence also. they also don't like nikki haley

[Midnightwalk]

12. One can dream

If that scenario plays out Biden would win.

Biden could ask the Hague to charge him with crimes against humanity and allow him to be extradited.

State charges could still be filed in the meantime.

[progressoid]

78. It would likely be harder for Biden. Old school repubs will gladly pull the lever for Pence.

Pence has better dissaproval ratings than Trump. They are about the same in the approval ratings.

[Midnightwalk]

120. Could be

Pardoning the criminal might not play well and pence is not exactly dynamic but you could be right.

I was more commenting on dreaming that Biden could ask the Hague to pursue trump. I don’t think we have to be signatories to do that. It’s a dream because I don’t think that would happen.

That gives us three levels of potential criminal charges. International, federal, and state.

[onetexan]

186. Agree, the trifecta of charges will certainly do him in. He deserves to be brought before the Hague

[Duppers]

167. Bingo!

We can hope. 😁

[Sancho]

13. Hope your friend is correct - makes sense to me...

[Kablooie]

16. This is something I can believe.

It's really Trump's best hope and is right in character for him.
To avoid consequences for his actions as president will be a major concern for him.

It will be frustrating for us but at least we will be rid of him.

The big question is when.
Will it be before the GOP convention? Will they put up someone else?
If it's afterwards and Trump is the candidate, what happens then?

[calimary]

35. I bet he'd make a run for it.

Thing is - he's so deeply invested in denial. And almost everybody around him remembers 2016 and all the signs that Hillary Clinton would win. And he came from behind and squeeeeeeaked out a "win." I think he might gamble on going for it.

And I hope so, because I'm afraid the Pence thing would be lethal for us. It would stop the hemorrhaging of moderates and conservative-leaning independents. The "Christian right" would leap at it and almost literally force its congregations to the polls to vote. Pence would be acceptable enough to all the wavering potential voters who are now looking to defect. TONS of these folks are party-over-country. TOO many.

But I could see it happening AFTER a very unfortunate Election Night for the donald. Could even happen ON Election Night, assuming it starts to become clear that Biden's gonna take it. We might just see donald disappear - except I'd also expect he'd fight the results, call them fake, call them a hoax, that he really won (without producing any evidence), and spread all kinds of verbal mess all over everywhere, from physical yowling to tweeting.

[Kablooie]

48. If he doesn't win his main concern will be to avoid consequences from his presidential years.

So he must win or get a pardon.
If he feels he might win the fight to remain president he would fight.
If it's clear he has no chance he will finagle a pardon before he leaves.

[pazzyanne]

110. He and his family can cut and run but they can't hide - anywhere.

They will be ostracized by the world. The only places they may be welcome is Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Turkey, and Russsia (maybe). Without money and with a load of debt, they are low on options. Let the investigations begin!

[Marcuse]

142. Putin's trophy will be running the US rump government in exile.

[lagomorph777]

85. Rid of him but it's a short-term victory if we don't finally start to reign in GOP crimes.

They have escalated with each successive GOP crook in the White House, ever since Nixon got away with it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

17. Interesting. Thank you for sharing.

In my opinion Trump will never resign. I think the reason he gets so angry at the media and poll results, is that he is utterly convinced in his own mind that he is the Best President Ever! and cannot understand why every single other person in the world doesn't think the same way.

Delusional narcissist.

[Goodheart]

19. When McCain defended Obama from that nasty old white woman who tried to paint him

as a Muslim terrorist... that's when I knew McCain had already accepted his defeat.

[PCIntern]

20. Exactly.

[themaguffin]

87. What would trump say? I just don't see a "presentation" that is trump like in how he would do it

[JI7]

108. Mccain would have done the same even if he could win

[CanonRay]

21. Wouldn't it be funny if he resigned and Pence stiffed him on the pardon?

Lol

[shanti]

53. Yes

It's obvious they both detest each other.

[bottomofthehill]

188. That is my hope

Trump pardons everyone in his administration and his family members, resigns after loosing the election and Pence pulls the football out from in front of him like Lucy in the peanuts comic strip leaving him as the only one left to face the music.

[C OH Dem]

23. How can Pence pardon him?

Can he really be pardoned for crimes he hasn't been charged with?

[Mr.Bill]

28. Yes. Nixon was. n/t

[calimary]

43. Welcome to DU, C OH Dem!

That's how Nixon got away with it. And one of the main reasons the man who pardoned him failed to win election in his own right, two years later. All you heard, during that campaign, from people commenting or talking with friends and family, was "...he pardoned Nixon." All things being equal, for many voters, between Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter was "...he pardoned Nixon."

Most of America REALLY wanted Nixon to face justice. Exile wasn't enough. And then he did a David Frost interview that aired internationally, so he didn't stay invisible for long.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

194. Yep. Al Franken told a story.

When Al Franken had a radio show on Air America, I listened to it on XM radio. He said he was living in New York City with his comedy partner, Tom Davis. On Saturday Night Live they were Franken and Davis.

They were on the sofa, watching TV, and the news broke that Gerald Ford had pardoned Nixon.

Al & Tom leapt off the sofa, jumped up, gave each other high fives, and said, "He's GOIN' DOWN!!".

When the news came over the air, my Dad, old union man and Norman Thomas voter, said, "He just lost the election'.

[Mr.Bill]

24. The biggest problem the GOP has

is if Trump quit tomorrow, on November about 30-35% of their base will either write Trump's name in or not vote. Either of those scenarios guarantee a Biden win.

[rocktivity]

26. I can see him cutting and running (even to Russia)

with all the money and kickbacks he's looted.


rocktivity

[louis-t]

46. And leaving hundreds of millions in debt behind.

[SeattleVet]

61. He most likely owes the Russians a shit-ton of cash, too.

He might get suspicious when they offer him a wonderful penthouse, 25 floors up, and come see this WONDERFUL view from the balcony...oops!

[Duppers]

169. It's wouldn't be Russia but SA.

Putin only use for hump is as a tool. As someone up-thread said, he'd end up "falling" out of a window or drinking plutonium.

[yaesu]

27. tRump is not, will not resign, this is his shining reality show moment, an idiot playing an idiot

he runs the show, he won't give it up.

[Johnny2X2X]

29. He will resign, after the election

Mark my words, after Trump loses, he will spend a few weeks robbing and stealing from the US treasury, then he'll resign and have Pence protect him.

[MarcA]

103. Agreed. Also, if the Rs forced him out the magats would revolt

and they would lose many more House and Senate seats.

[Roc2020]

30. I can see that. However Trump would have to

get over his ego which is as high and tough as the berlin wall. But yeah. The GOP would be better off with Pence at the top than Trump. Pence would still lose though.

[grantcart]

31. Re

Paragraph 3. That has been in the public record for years

Paragraph 4 I have predicted the same thing except that he will pardon thousands of Republicans ahead of time, and get an undated pardoned signed before he leaves.

Trump knows it is over and is looking forward to having 40 million die hard followers that he can monetize with a $ 7.99 a month membership fee. He isn't playing to win he's playing to monetize.

[crickets]

52. "He isn't playing to win he's playing to monetize."

I think you could be on to something. trump may have picked out a likely media vehicle for himself already.

https://www.salon.com/2020/05/06/donald-trump-jr-investing-in-far-right-oann-aiming-to-take-down-fox-report/

[Strelnikov_]

58. "He isn't playing to win he's playing to monetize."

Agree.

1) Lose re-election.

2) Claim voter fraud etc. etc., he is a victim.

3) Launch 'Trump-Vision' w/ noted $7.99/mo. fee. Will be kinda like a InfoWars/Stormfront hybrid, only crazier and more racist.

4) . . . wait for it . . . launch his 2024 campaign for POTUS. Lotta money to siphoned off of political contributions.

[bobbieinok]

32. I've long thought McCain picked Palin b/c he didn't really want to win

After that pick, he really did some strange stuff, dumping Letterman, etc

Just didn't act like someone focused on winning

[Baltimike]

33. Karl Rove was behind the Palin pick. McCain was told (and convinced)

that he could not win against a minority (an historic pick with Obama) without ALSO having an historic pick (woman as veep) Rove picked Palin, told McCain she was the one who could seal the deal...and she did...just not in the way they wanted.

[Sogo]

68. Palin was not "historic" as a woman veep pick.

Geraldine Ferraro was....1984....

[Baltimike]

133. Yes INDEED she was...

Geraldine Ferraro was a member of our Democratic Party. the Republic Party never had a women before then.

Palin was historic...for that reason.

[Freddie]

80. It was a calculated "can't miss"

That there were thousands of women pissed off that HRC was denied the nomination and would vote for anything female. Wrong.

[Baltimike]

134. indeed, that too. nt

[SpaceNeedle]

34. He won't cut and run

He will become more and more divisive and create a civil war in his mind.

He can always resign on January 19 and have Pence pardon him.

[calimary]

50. Welcome to DU, SpaceNeedle!

I think he still trusts his gut, and thinks he'll win again. I suspect he's counting on Vlad's help again, like last time. He reasons that he'll get away with this, too, because that's just how it's always worked out for him.

But then again, even if Pence gets to SAY he was "president" for a day or a week or whatever, he'll have an asterisk by his name as well, AND perpetual questions to face as to why, AND it will likely K.O. any hopes he has of running for President on his own. He'll be the "he pardoned trump" dude, and will forevermore be known for that. Gerald Ford had to run against that, too. And he was beaten by Jimmy Carter in 1976.

[Paladin]

36. Why should we trust trump to do something that sane, practical and decent at this point?

He's a self-absorbed, destructive lunatic whose worst traits get uglier by the day. There's no evidence of anybody remaining in the White House who can talk trump off the cliffside. I'd love for your acquaintance to be correct, but I don't think trump will let us off that easy.

[LymphocyteLover]

37. it sounds very plausible to me

[bucolic_frolic]

38. Just another ML

Missing Link!

Trump do something rational? The guy is having a seizure.

[Mazeltov Cocktail]

39. Trump has avoided the consequences of his actions...

...his entire life. I doubt he is going to change course now. This makes sense given his past and your friend makes sense to me.
That said, nothing about Trump is predictable except that he is going to lie, no matter the situation.
Going to be a strange ride no matter where it ends.

[SDJay]

40. Dump Is Basically

the male version of Churchy Spice IMO. Same stupidity, same proud ignorance, same scorching narcissism, same child-level maturity level, etc.

[Traildogbob]

42. Criminals walk

They all should at least be destroyed reputation and business wise, and be shamed into fleeing the country. Or at least have to dwell amongst their mouth breathers until death.
I have no doubt GOP want Pastor Pence on a ticket with Nikki Halley. But, everything trump has to be an albatross Around Pence’s neck, like their beloved noose and there for Halley as well. Treason can not just be ignored. To Pardon treason should automatically make you ineligible to be the President, except in GOP world.

[Sogo]

75. Good point.

...
"Treason can not just be ignored. To Pardon treason should automatically make you ineligible to be the President, except in GOP world."

[OrlandoDem2]

44. That could cause chaos in the GOP. They'd get slaughtered even more.

The white working class would revolt and stay home.

I fear a Romney/Haley ticket, however.

[bronxiteforever]

56. Followers of MF45 absolutely hate Romney.

That would split the GOP. No way does Romney get the nomination in 2020.

[Duppers]

170. Would Jeb Bush or John Kasich be interested? nt

[NoMoreRepugs]

47. I would like to believe this but I can't.

[Sherman A1]

57. Same here

Believe when I see it.

[cwydro]

198. I don't either.

Seems unlikely to me.

[PuppyBismark]

54. Oh course the only question is when he resigns

I think he will resign a in January a few days before Biden takes over. Before he resigns he will pardon everyone including Pense. Then pense will pardon him and be a Jeopardy answer, Who had the shortest term as president?

[jaxexpat]

59. That would be terrible. Pardoning of executive miscreants is........

why we're where we are today. It's good for citizens to see traitors to their oaths of office brought to justice. Sorta gives democracy legitimacy.

[zentrum]

62. Very intresting. Pence pardoning

…..may seal it.

[Red Oak]

63. Trump will resign by the end of July - Nikki Haley accepts nomination at GOP convention in late Aug.

My thinking is that the Repugs will want to run Nikki Haley as their candidate. As another historic candidate if she should win, she would match up against VP Biden well, maybe saving the Repugs Senate majority even if she loses the Presidency. Trump is sinking the GOP ship and Pence, while better than Trump, doesn't save the Presidency or the Senate due to his butt-licking Trump for 3.5 years.

Trump resigning is the easy part of the plan and it has nothing to do with his ego. He's gone bankrupt many times because he is such a poor businessman. He never asks to go bankrupt, the banks tell him he is bankrupt. Trump leaves the bankrupt mess he created and someone else gets to to clean up the mess while Trump lies and declares victory. That's what will happen here. The Repug establishment tells him he's gone (Sheldon Adelson, et. al.) and he's gone. Funding pulled, pardon offered. Trump's gone. Pence is now President and pardons Trump. Pence/Haley will not be competitive if Pence pardons Trump, so Pence must pardon, then take a powder himself and leave the field to be with his "Mother".

What I can't quite figure out is how we get from Pence/Haley to Haley/??? What forces President Pence not to run? Who do the Repugs select as Haley's VP?

That's my prognostication on what will happen. First steps, Trump resigns in the next four weeks and Nikki Haley is nominated as President Pence's VP. All this has to occur reasonably before the GOP convention in August.

[Sogo]

77. "Red Oak," as in Ernst's hometown?

I grew up an hour north....

[Mr. Ected]

65. Then we need to see if there's evidence that Pence conspired with Trump to keep his crimes hush hush

If he's a co-conspirator, he can't pardon Trump.

And if this is the way to subvert justice in the USA, then our Constitution isn't as stout as we claim it to be.

[lagomorph777]

93. Not true at all. He can pardon anybody (except himself) for any reason.

[Mr. Ected]

147. Not from prison.

A co-conspirator would not become President.

[lagomorph777]

152. You mean like after Iran-Contra, Bush didn't become President, 'cause he went to jail?

[Downtown Hound]

66. Pence can't pardon Trump because Trump has never

been charged with anything. So I'm going to have to take that with a grain of salt.

[lagomorph777]

90. Ford gave Nixon a blanket pardon; no charges were ever filed.

[Downtown Hound]

96. State charges don't apply to such a pardon

Won't work with Trump.

[lagomorph777]

98. No, nobody can pardon him from state charges. Thought you meant the federal pardon.

Well, I guess technically, Cuomo could pardon... HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAAAAA!

[plimsoll]

72. Been saying he'd resign to my wife for a couple months.

The resign part makes sense, timing is the question. Will he resign before the election because losing would be be humiliating for Trump, or wait till he loses and then gets the pardon.

The key part is the pardon. He has to get the pardon.

Personally, I'm less worried about him going to jail than I am about bringing this whole sordid administration (sic) wrongdoing to light. If you have to forgo prosecutions because immunity gets in the way so be it. But 45s administration (sic) needs a very solid dose of daylighting.

[Duppers]

174. My husband has been saying the same.

However, we want to see tRump in prison, as well as his lying enablers.

We'll need a bull dog AG in the next admin to serve justice to Republicans and not "make nice" as has been done in the past.

What does the rule of law mean if it's not applied?

[plimsoll]

184. The problem is 2 conflicting needs.

We have to know what happened or we can't prevent it from happening again. It has to be openly admitted by the perpetrators in open hearings so the followers have to confront the wrong doing of their leaders. This is like the Nuremburg trials after WW!!. The point was less targeting specific Nazi's than exposing the wrong doing of the party. Even this failed to completely destroy Nazi Ideology, but it curtailed it in West Germany pretty well.

We want the wrongdoing punished for the reasons you outlined. But the biggest perpetrators will all be pardoned. YOu'll have to pursue the small and offer them immunity to expose the extent of the wrong doing. I think trump will be handing out pardons like you've never seen, then resigns and Pence pardons him. Not much we can do, so you expose what you can, and humiliate the middling folks who got ratted out, maybe they decide it's not worth it.

In any case, Trump will never see the inside of a prison, and given our system of government he won't even have to go to some place like Rio to escape the long arm of the law. We either accept the completely vulgar machinations, or we destroy the system ourselves.

Then the congress works to plug those holes if they can.

[Brainfodder]

73. To be pardoned, you need to be convicted of something first, correct?

That is a monkey wrench in that Pence pardoning theory?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is my current understanding of pardons.

[Pathwalker]

102. Nixon was pardoned, but never charged.

n/t

[Brainfodder]

117. OK, then pardon accepting is an ADMISSION of guilt?

[PaulRevere08]

74. Well that is their best option to save the party long term

but they need turnout to have any hope of keeping the senate and if tRump cuts and runs then I think a lot of repubs just stay home on election day.

[Sogo]

79. Yeah, but Trump wouldn't care about that.....

He'll do what he needs to do for himself and his dumb kids.....

[A HERETIC I AM]

82. They didn't title the movie "Game Change" for nothing.

Palin was certainly a “Hail Mary” if there ever was one

Trumpy has no such available circumstance in his future.

He’s toast.


I’m convinced the American Electorate has had just about enough of this embarrassment.

[RussBLib]

83. If they cut and run

It's not going to quell the divisions in the country. I can hear the "you hounded him from office! For no reason! " howls already. Fucker needs to spend some time in jail, with no access to makeup.

[Duppers]

175. AMEN!

[dlk]

86. Presidential pardons require being found guilty

If someone hasn’t been charged with a crime, how would a presidential pardon work?

[lagomorph777]

94. Ford pardoned Nixon. No charges were ever filed against Nixon.

[Eyeball_Kid]

95. I thought I read some time ago that a president can pardon someone

for any actions deemed illegal while in service to "the country", or something to that effect. I'd like to hear a legal opinion. Does anyone have legal expertise here?

[OverBurn]

91. Would be funny if Pence lies to him and then does not pardon him.

[Eyeball_Kid]

99. That's probably the only way that the white-haired wonder could compete in the election.

He'd get wild accolades from all parts of the political spectrum were he to become president and NOT pardon Trump. He'd probably save the Republican Party from complete ruin.

[Dan]

97. If it turns out as your friend indicates

Then I want the Federal Government to go after Pence as an accessory - charge him for everything that he can be charged with - and put him (and if possible Mom) in federal prison.

[apnu]

100. He can't be pardoned if he isn't convicted

That means, as a private citizen, an investigation, a trial, and and a conviction before a pardon.

That is presuming Pence is POTUS after January 20th 2021. Which are long odds right now.

They get longer Trump stays POTUS before dropping out prior to Nov. 3rd 2020.

He'd really cut an run and leave Pence, alone, to defend their legacy?

I've heard crazy from Team Trump, but this is the most shit house rat crazy I've ever heard.

[Pathwalker]

105. Wrong. This thread has plenty of explanations.

Nixon pardoned/never charged.

[sanatanadharma]

136. Ford's pardon of Nixon was actually immunity

I suspect the Ford precedent would lose in the Supreme Court.
Such pardon power is totally contrary to constitutional sense.

"As President I thank you all for electing me and as my first official act, I pardon the Vice-President from any all all Federal crimes that I may direct her to commit. I expect the same courtesy when I resign the last week of my term."

Certainly the founding father's would not accept the idea of a pardon could that immunize one such that s/he could commit any and all federal crimes without fear of repercussion.

I'd like to know how the concept of "pardon" was understood in the late 19th century.

[Hortensis]

115. But the parties could strike a deal, as they did with

the corrupt Nixon and Reagan administrations. If Trump goes, I imagine that will be the way. (Enormously corrupt -- this is humor in this hypocrisy) Republican leaders, accompanied or not accompanied by Democratic, will confront Trump, and/or his people if he's too cowardly to face them, and offer him a deal he can't refuse. And may well already have been angling for.

America needs him out of office not a day later than it could be accomplished. I imagine the deal between parties would force the Republicans to agree to immediate action on Covid.

[apnu]

158. This is true and better said than others I've read around here.

Ford's "pardon" of Nixon was preemptive and there was a deal with the Democrats not to go further. The Democrats and enough Republicans were pissed at the Nixon Admin enough that if they wanted to impeach Ford for that "pardon" they could have, then gone after Nixon hammer and tongs.

They didn't, the GOP struck a deal to stop the bleeding. I wish the Dems hadn't taken them up on that because what Ford did was a total perversion of everything America stands for, and totally unconstitutional.

But laws are only effective if they are enforced, right? Ford's pardon of Nixon is testament of that.

[Hortensis]

163. Yes. I was disappointed that Nixon wasn't prosecuted.

Equal justice, no man above the law, etc., especially those betraying great duties.

I accepted the argument provisionally, though, that helicoptering him off to a disgraced retirement avoided very serious dissension among the electorate. But Reagan and Trump, and many Republican crimes in office, probably wouldn't have happened, or at least in the same ways and to the same degrees, if President Nixon's next residence after the WH was federal prison. And the bitter enmity they tried to avoid is everything they feared and more.

[Nululu]

104. Pence won't win

Too close to Trump. Shares blame and doesn't have the demented fanbase.

[Grins]

118. Pence can't pardon because Trump is not formally charged with anything.

But - if Pence should pull a Jerry Ford and pardon Trump “for ANY crimes that he MIGHT have committed”, there might well be war in the streets. That 35% vote might drop to 20% and good-bye Senate! Ford pardoning Nixon, I think, was a colossal blunder and part of the reason we are where we are.

And so, it will get down to President Biden. Whom I hope will not feel the need to “bring us together”. Again. It didn’t work then, it won’t work now.

And even if Pence should pardon Trump, it means Trump is guilty and he can be investigated without benefit of the 5th Amendment.

(I’m trying to imagine Biden to his AG: “Release the (legal) kracken!” That’s why I want a killer for an AG.)

Last, after Ford pardoned Nixon, investigations, indictments, and trials of Nixon’s henchmen went on for four more YEARS. FORTY were convicted with 7 going to prison, one of them the Attorney General of the United States.

[cbdo2007]

122. Pence can't just blanket it pardon him for everything he's ever done wrong in his life.

Like let's use the Trump shooting someone on 5th avenue. If he shot someone on 5th avenue 8 years ago to cover up a crime, and nobody knows about it, and then Pence pardons him and they find evidence of this shooting, that isn't something Pence can pardon him for.

Ford pardoned Nixon for everything he did in office....most of Trump's offenses occurred before he ever took office, so there is no way they will just give him a blanket pardon to him and his kids for everything they have ever done wrong.

I do think Trump will drop out before the election though because he won't risk such huge defeat. That would "trump" the defeat to his psyche less than losing to Biden(Obama).

[usaf-vet]

126. What would happen If the Dems filed articles of impeachment against Pence and Trump on the same day.

Just asking?

[Dopers_Greed]

128. Pence won't win

He has the charisma of moldy bread, and is covered in the stench from this administration.

Funny how Trump put him "in charge" of the COVID response to try and avoid responsibility. Now it turns out that may backfire for the election.

That said, I'm very worried that the Repugs could run someone like Haley, Romney, or Cotton. We'd have a tough time with any of them on the ticket.

[jimlup]

181. I think Trump will wait until after November 3rd to resign...

this is because his ego is such that he will wallow in the convention adoration and he will relish the attention of the debates and the October sling fest. He'll resign on November 4th or there abouts and instruct his Pence to pardon him.

[FakeNoose]

204. He's still embezzling campaign funds, you can bet on it

So many one-per-centers have coughed up serious dough to Chump's campaign, and he's not walking away from all that cash. If the donations were to dry up, and the money's all been spent, that's another story. Maybe in that case Chump would consider an "early retirement" by way of resignation.

[WinstonSmith4740]

138. Very interesting.

I trust your long time relationship with him, so if you think the information is valid enough to pass along, that's enough for me.

I sure hope he's right. When this nightmare started, I wanted him and his children of the corn sent to jail, but now I'll settle for him to just go. Pence will not be able to command the minions like he can, so they'll burn themselves out as a movement. The entire lot will be turned out in November. The trick will be tying their hands between election day and Biden's inauguration to keep the rethugs from selling what's left of our democracy to Putin.

[RGTIndy]

141. That's always been a Never Trumper wet dream.

But I haven't seen any evidence to indicate that it's any more than wishful thinking.

[Warpy]

146. I think it's wishful thinking for a number of reasons

First, the only way I see him leaving is feet first, as a national hero felled by Covid or a fast food fat clot or stroking out during a temper tantrum. He's just not going to go under his own power. He has never feared litigation of any sort, he's welcomed it. Federal charges? Pfui! Anything starts to happen, he just gets on his jet and goes someplace without extradition. Malignant narcissists fear nothing but the loss of attention.

Republicans like your friend might dream of a brokered convention that would produce a nominee who's an affable but bland technocrat like Weld, but they also respect the fact that Dumdum's fan base in the heartland remains large and extremely loyal. They know that loyalty won't be transferred to Weld or Pence or anyone else, not even with a flurry of pardons for America's Crime Family.

No, your friend is dreaming about scenarios in which Dumdum won't take his whole party down with him, and I'm afraid it might be too late for that. The Republican Party, as it is now constituted, can't survive. Too many curtains have been pulled open, too many cans full of worms have been exposed.

It's too bad, in a way. Their wholehearted embrace of beggaring the Treasury to pump up the stock market has made the next crash inevitable. It would be nice if it happened on their watch so they'd get full credit for it.

[LiberalFighter]

149. I hope they all tell him that he can win and doesn't resign.

[LiberalFighter]

150. If Pence agrees to pardon the Trump family his goose will be cooked.

[Joinfortmill]

159. It all sounds like the truth to me.

[GoCubsGo]

160. They're deluded if they think he's going to skate by on the state crimes.

That's going to do him in before any federal crimes do. Letitia James is no chump. And, quite frankly, I'd love to see him rot in Sing Sing or some other NY state prison. They're a lot less cushy than the federal pens.

[Duppers]

161. Exactly what my husband said days ago

With the exception of getting off with NY state prosecutors.

Cuomo hates tRump so much and I'm sure the prosecutors will have plenty of help.

[tiredtoo]

162. For what it's worth, I think he will resign prior to election also. EOM

[Lucinda]

166. He'd better hurry then - because this bounties issue will likely take Pence down too

And if that is the case they will have to move by their convention.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

172. It fits trump's pattern, but we don't know enough about Putin's stick or carrot.

Traitortrump has run away from his failures all of his life. However, we don't know what Putin threatens trump with, nor what he offers trump. Either of these, or the combination, could be big enough to cause trump to change his usual tactic of running, deflecting, denying, distracting and paying a settlement.

Now I can go read the other replies.

[jmowreader]

177. I don't think Trump is in line for any pardons

The GOP knows he's a crook. Their interest in him is all about filling the federal bench with judges they like.

If he resigns, they'd be like "hey bubba, you're on your own here."

[jimlup]

180. So could he resign after November 3rd's loss and Pence still pardon him?

I think absolutely he could and perhaps will.

[Awsi Dooger]

182. The latest nonsensical version of Trump stepping down

How many have there been...500+?

I'm forever amazed anyone is that gullible.

Rely on normalcy, not bizarre detours

[SiliconValley_Dem]

183. we'll see. until then. we keep fighting that asshole every day in every way

[amuse bouche]

185. I have seen predictions of Biden getting up to 432 Electoral Votes

So, none of this surprises me

[Raine]

189. I don't think Trump would've come out in favor of masks today

if he didn't intend to stay in and fight to get reelected. I believe he'll stay to the bitter end, he's not one to quit.

[W T F]

191. Trump can't be pardoned, the constitution forbids pardons in cases of impeachment

[Chicago1980]

192. Who would pardon Pence?

I'm betting there's plenty of contraband on Pence somewhere.

He's been complicit this whole time.

The democrats need to go after the whole administration.

[brewens]

196. I that happened, I wonder if Pence would really pardon Trump? Would the republicans

that figure to survive get to him and tell him not to? If Trump goes down in flames, it really wouldn't help those that aren't being taken down with him to be in favor of letting Trump and his collaborators off the hook. Pence probably secretly hates him anyway.

[PCIntern]

197. Wow! I Posted this on the fly and

I figured it would get 10 responses and sink to the bottom quickly.

It goes to show you how thirsty we are for any news or opinions which validates our wishes and dreams and appropriately is of course, in question because, well, who the fuck knows what this guy is going to do? It’s like trying to predict the behavior of a rabid dog.

[Beartracks]

199. But why saddle McCain with PALIN of all people?

"You're going to lose, so... you HAVE to take on this crazy dumb 'Christian' MILF as your running mate."

What were they wanting to foist on America when they put Palin in the spotlight as part of McCain's doomed campaign?

===========

[PCIntern]

200. She had had a profile in one of the magazines

Which was extremely flattering. I don’t think they realized who they were dealing with.

[Ford_Prefect]

202. This sounds like they are trying it on to see they could make it fly.

Respectfully I doubt this scenario. It feels like wishful thinking more than a decision made or thoughtful strategy. I think the reality here is that Putin has far more sway over Trump's actions and choices than the GOP regardless of their preferences. Barr serves as Trump's bagman, not Pense's thus his instructions likewise come from Putin rather than GOP power brokers.

Trump is the GOP monster-in-charge. He's got more control over their future than he should have but they can't get rid of him.

The idea that Trump would walk away to avoid federal charges and investigations would only work if it favors Putin in a useful way. I think that Trump the Destroyer-of-Democracy works better going down in flames while taking much of the establishment, the economy, and public institutions down with him. It also mimics the plan Putin used in Ukraine to destabilize both government and social order. Putin's Puppet is here to divide American society as well as defeat Federal law and order along with any legal structures which inhibit Putin's money laundering. Whatever serves that end best is what he'll do

[PCIntern]

206. As I stated in the OP

I’m only relating what he told me. I did not say that I was in full agreement, but it is notable that the establishment Repubs are saying this

[Curtis]

207. He will wait until after the election

His ego will make go through the election because he doesn't believe he will lose. He'll drag the GOP down with him and do as much damage on the way out. He will challenge the election results first all the way to SCOTUS. Once every other avenue is exhausted to remain in power, he will resign with the deal that Pence pardons him.

He will destroy as much of the US as possible as revenge for making him look bad. That's the way that kind of mind works