"She's got the gun on me": Video shows white woman pulling pistol on black mother, daughter in MI

[StarfishSaver]

This is exhausting.

First, the white woman bumped into Takelia Hill’s teen daughter. Then, she seemed to try to hit the black Michigan mother with her minivan.

And just moments later, Hill found herself in a suburban Detroit parking lot, staring into the muzzle of a pistol, as the woman aimed her weapon at Hill and yelled to move back.

“You f------ jumped behind my car, “Back the f--- up!”
...
For some viewers, the scene may offer a particularly tedious sense of deja vu ... Hill said the dangerous confrontation, which took place on the edge between the communities of Orion Township and Auburn Hills, left her and her three daughters traumatized.

Social media posts from someone identifying as a relative say police arrested the white woman, confiscated her guns and then let her go. The Oakland County Sheriff’s Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Washington Post, which could not confirm the woman’s identity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/02/michigan-woman-gun-video/%3foutputType=amp

Link to tweet

[marie999]

1. Why are they standing their yelling.

She has a gun and she could shoot you. Keep your hands in sight, keep facing her, and walk back slowly. You have her picture and her plate number. Of course, if someone there had a gun they should have shot that white woman in the head.

[StarfishSaver]

11. Oh, please

THAT'S your reaction to what happened this video? Criticizing the people who had a gun shoved in their faces for how they reacted to having a gun shoved in their faces?

[marie999]

21. Yes,

because they could they could have died. Discretion is the better part of valor. Pick your fights. I have more cliches if you want.

[dawg day]

22. You think that furious woman with a gun will suddenly start acting

Rationally?
There is literally no safe way to deal with someone like this. Backing away, a sign of submission, could result in a triumphant shot.

What they did led to the right result, as it happened.

Remember the one whose boyfriend had to drag her away while begging her to stop trying to assault the black person? These people are not rational. What works with sharks and grizzly bears won't work with them.

[Straw Man]

27. Rationality.

There is literally no safe way to deal with someone like this. Backing away, a sign of submission, could result in a triumphant shot.

Some responses are safer than others. De-escalation is a real thing. It's not victim-blaming; it's potentially life-saving advice.

And I've never heard of a "triumphant shot." Is that a recognized psychological response in violent encounters?

These people are not rational. What works with sharks and grizzly bears won't work with them.

Sharks and grizzly bears are not rational. That's a trait we generally ascribe to humans alone. The suggestion is to treat this woman as a wild animal, which is what she is at this moment. There are ways to avoid triggering a fatal response. You don't try to "stand your ground," unarmed, against sharks, grizzly bears, or crazed people with guns. Not if you want to live.

[StarfishSaver]

31. "some responses are more rational than others" ... Until they're not

Maybe she was in a better position to read the situation than anyone on DU watching the video after the fact - given that she walked away alive, her choice obviously was very rational.

I didn't post this story and video in order to give white people a premise to instruct black people on how to react to acts of violent racial aggression against us

Yet, I should have known this thread would attract such a response from some people. These things always do.

The display of privilege among people deciding that a black woman confronted with a gun in her face who took a course of action that didn't result in her being killed or harmed somehow responded "irrationally" is mind boggling.

And the fact that some people actually seem more worked up about the black woman not responding how THEY think THEY would have responded rather than over seeing yet another white person pull a gun on and threaten a black person for no reason at all and apparently get away with it is sickening.

[Straw Man]

33. You seem to have missed my point completely.

And you misquoted my post. I said that some reactions are "safer" than others -- not "more rational."

The white woman is the one acting irrationally -- like a wild animal. Animals are not rational creatures. They are instinctive. There are proven methods to avoid provoking a violent response from wild animals and irrational humans.

That the white woman acted in an illegal, immoral, and racist manner is clear and beyond dispute. No one -- least of all me -- is suggesting an equivalence of blame. But I would strongly suggest to anyone who may end up in such an encounter to make every effort to de-escalate. It could save their lives.

I'm struggling to comprehend how you find that "sickening."

[StarfishSaver]

23. You have no way of knowing what you would have done in that situation

So you're in no place to second guess them.

And, as history has shown, we are just as likely to get shot no matter WHAT we do. I'm glad she stood and photographed this woman since it is very likely that 1) she knew that this crazy woman was just as likely to shoot her "calmly backing away" as she was to shoot her standing in place; 2) holding a camera on her may have may have deterred the woman from shooting her because she knew there's be evidence of it; and 3) if she HAD shot her, she and/or her family would have had documentation of what happened.

This is how black people have to function in today's America. It's easy to watch the video from the safety of our computer or cellphone and critique her actions based on what we think she should have done because we're sure WE would have done it that way. It's another to be standing in a parking lot with a crazy, racist white woman pointing a gun in your face while your children watch and you have to figure out in mere seconds of real time not only how to stay alive it but how, in the event you don't survive, to document your death so that a blind, tone-deaf society can't claim you had it coming.

[Merlot]

28. Exactly, and well said.

[marie999]

47. I would not have stood there. She would have been dead.

That is not a boast, that is what I, my family, and my friends train for.

[StarfishSaver]

50. You have no idea what you would have done

Regardless what you train for.

[marie999]

54. You have no idea who I am,

what I am capable of, or what I have done.

[StarfishSaver]

56. You're right. I don't

But I do know that if you have the kind of background and training that you know without any doubt exactly how you would have reacted in this situation, you should definitely understand that average people without your training and experience aren't going to react the way you would in such a circumstance. And instead of going online to tell them how you think they did it all wrong, focus instead on what the racist thug with the gun should and shouldn't have done.

[LanternWaste]

75. We do however, have an idea of what you allege to be.

Yet allegations on a message board are often worth less than the times it costs to type them.

[marie999]

82. The only thing I "allege" to be is a 72 year old woman who cares for her family.

Also, I like weapons, pistols, and rifles and I know how dangerous they can be that is why I constantly practice. Believe me or not, I don't care because I do not know you and you do not know me. So don't waste your time writing about me.

[LanternWaste]

99. I didn't. I simply expounded on the point of order you brought to the table.

"So don't waste your time writing about me."

I didn't. I simply expounded on your point of order. Allegations are weak lacking any objective evidence to support them. Belief is irrelevant... faith is irrelevant. Care even, is irrelevant.

Evidence however, is always relevant.

Provide that to support your claim, or simply keep making allegations. Your choice, of course...

[marie999]

100. And why would I bother to prove anything about myself to a person

I don't know nor care about? First, you have to prove to me you really exist.

[USALiberal]

62. LOL, ok! nt

[Withywindle]

98. Very well said

that's exactly it.

[TeamPooka]

80. enjoy your time here.

[NutmegYankee]

19. As if that matters

If that racist wanted to shoot she would have, hands up or not. That was a power play.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

37. that is a ridiculous take. this white trash needs to be in jail

[SlogginThroughIt]

45. What an unbelievably odd take away.

[Happy Hoosier]

2. Got a good look at her face, so that should help ID her.

[Ferrets are Cool]

4. Said she was arrested and released

Probably nothing will come of this at all

[dalton99a]

7. Evidently the sheriff is running for reelection and doesn't want to offend white people

[onetexan]

24. Exactly. Released - did they release her on bail? What charges were filed, if any?

This is so disgusting this hateful woman terrorized a mom & her 3 daughters, then gets her hand slapped? This type of treatment will just encourage others to pull their guns on minorities.

[StarfishSaver]

36. As long as people - even those claiming to be allies -

excuse this kind of behavior with the kind of bothsiderism "they were BOTH in the wrong arguments and "the black woman could have de-escalated this by just backing away slowly with her hands up" ridiculousness," racists like her will continue to feel emboldened to behave this way.

[Straw Man]

46. Let me be perfectly clear.

I think that the black woman in this encounter would have been perfectly justified, morally and legally, in shooting the white woman who was brandishing a pistol in her face and acting irrationally. The first response to your post says essentially the same thing. But since she apparently wasn't armed, she was risking her and her daughter's lives by confronting the woman in the way she did. Luckily, it worked out, but as a general course of action it is not advisable.

I would probably go against the general current of feelings on this site if I advised people to arm themselves against such encounters, but that's what I believe should be done. When someone is pointing a gun in your face and screaming at you, there is every reason to believe your life is in danger, and you are justified in responding with deadly force.

[MisterNiceKitty]

60. Straw Man, I think your posts make a lot of sense.

I gather a lot of people haven't taken any active shooter training. The first line of defense is to avoid, run away not confront the armed and hostile assailant unless backed into a corner with no way to escape. Even then it's best to try to deescalate the situation if there's even a remote chance of survival. I haven't seen the video, but like so many circulating these days, it involves two people behaving badly, not just one.

A lot of the situations involving police violence would also benefit from civilians not contributing to their own demise by escalating the hostilities with armed officers who will not back down from a threat and don't have any reason too.

[Bettie]

70. If the black woman had been armed

she'd be facing charges. Period.

[Straw Man]

97. I think that depends on the jurisdiction.

And the white woman was charged.

[StarfishSaver]

102. Because "not all jurisdictions," right?

[artemisia1]

52. Nonsense!

Advising people not to do stupid stuff like antagonizing a crazy with a firearm is NOT blaming the victim. It is keeping them ALIVE. You do not advance towards nor yell at someone who has a loaded firearm trained on you. This has nothing to do with race or anything else. Live to fight another day. Get the license plate number, description, video, etc. and file charges. Have the last laugh IN COURT, civil, criminal or both. If the courts are not responsive, and we know that justice is NOT always color blind, then still, stay ALIVE. You don't win anything by telling off a gunman and getting shot. This woman, imho, would have fired if they had come any closer. Who wins with that?

If you have kids, please don't give them bad advice. The first rule in a self-defence scenario such as this one is SURVIVAL.

[StarfishSaver]

55. Since you're online "advising" people you don't know and likely will never read what you wrote

about how to comport themselves in order not to "antagonize" people, it's interesting you chose to advise the victim and not advise the crazy racist who pulled a gun on a black woman about how to comport HERSELF in order not to threaten the survival of said black woman.

[artemisia1]

61. It has nothing to do with outrage

It has nothing to do with moral outrage -- it is about survival. I would give the same advice to a person if they came face to face with a cottonmouth snake, a king cobra or a black widow spider. Save your moral outrage. Please tell me that if you have children you do not advise them to do anything that could end up with a mentally unstable person blowing their head off. Armed robbery is wrong, but doing anything to antagonize or provoke the armed robber is ill-advised. Same thing, so stuff your moral outrage where it belongs.

[Ferrets are Cool]

3. This kind of SHIT is happening all over 'Merica.

FUCK YOU ORANGEANUS.

[avebury]

5. If the person driving the car did hit that woman

I would think the driver could be arrested for at least assault. A smart law firm would have a research team compiling information on all these crazy cases and then sit back and wait till Trump is out of office to file a class action civil case against Trump. If you compile statistics pre-Trump presidency and his presidency, perhaps a case could be made that Trump’s actions have emboldened people to the level of craziness that exists now. Rational people would understand that if someone like Trump spews his filth that crazy people may act out and innocent people killed or injured.

[onetexan]

25. yes, i'm hoping the woman will secure a good lawyer & hit that racist woman w/ a lawsuit

She needs to be taught people won't tolerate her hate.

[JI7]

6. fucking unhinged trash

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. We can't end racism in my lifetime (I'm 71) but we CAN make open racist behaviour...

virtually impossible to express in public, either in person or on traceable social media, without those who engage in it paying a very heavy social price for their racism. Trump's presidency in particular has emboldened racists to expose their bigotry and white privilege in public. They think they can get away with it. It is our (and I mean white folks like me specifically) sacred obligation to make sure that they don't. They must be humiliated, they must be immediately subject to fierce and unrelenting blow back. They should forfeit their jobs, they should be shunned by all those who know them who are not similar racists themselves.

It as to become widely completely socially unacceptable to be exposed as being a racist. That may not cure those who are so infected already, but it will help halt the spread of this deadly social virus.

[uponit7771]

20. +1

[rockfordfile]

9. good arrest the terrorist

[gollygee]

10. Why is brandishing a weapon like that not punished?

What would have happened to a Black woman who pointed a gun at a White woman? Would a Black woman have been released in that case?

[dalton99a]

12. +1

[StarfishSaver]

13. We know what would have happened.

[Straw Man]

29. It should be. The law is on the books.

Why is brandishing a weapon like that not punished?

It remains to see whether it will be. The article says her guns were confiscated and she was released. My assumption is that she was released on bail. As far as I know, police can't confiscate someone's gun extra-judicially, without some kind of charge.

[Takket]

14. Wonder what led up to her pulling the gun. She already has it out when video starts

[gollygee]

15. It sounds like she was backing up and unaware that the Black woman and her family were behind her

so the Black woman tapped on the back of the car to let the White woman know she was there, and the White woman went ballistic and felt threatened and got out a gun.

[Takket]

17. Thanks!

That sounds like a very reasonable reaction to someone tapping you vehicle.

[tishaLA]

16. There's a longer video taken by the woman's daughter

It started because the white woman bumped into the woman's daughter and went fro there.

[Takket]

18. I wonder if the woman had just apologized

If all this would have been over?

[StarfishSaver]

26. Who do you think should have apologized?

[Takket]

38. The white woman that nearly hit the girl

[StarfishSaver]

42. Even if she hadn't apologized, this wouldn't have happened if she hadn't tried to run over the black

woman and then threatened to shoot her.

I don't think the black woman cared about an apology. She just didn't want to be assaulted and threatened.

[csziggy]

89. The white woman was not driving, her husband was

She was the passenger in the car. The video shows the confrontation before the couple got into the car, then the black woman behind it- maybe to get the license number Unfortunately it does not clearly show what happens right when or after the car backed into the black woman. I expect she took exception to a car backing into her and pounded on the car, from the sounds on the video.

The the crazy white woman is shown chambering a bullet (from the sound of it, though I am not a firearms expert) and pointing the gun at the people around her.

[StarfishSaver]

91. Why they were both charged

Thanks.

[csziggy]

93. He almost backed the car into at least one person

If none of the other events happened, that is still a crime since pedestrians have the right of way.

<SNIP>
The woman rolls up her window and Hill is seen stepping back as the SUV starts to drive away.

Hill then said she thought the driver was going to hit them as the driver backed out of the parking space, so she hit the back window of the SUV to stop it.

More: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2020/07/02/angry-exchange-video-shows-gun-being-pulled-mom-teen-orion-township-chipotle/5361865002/

When Ms Hill hit the back of the car, the white woman lost her mind, apparently, and pulled her gun. No care that her husband almost hit a pedestrian, but totally freaked out since someone hit her car with their hand to stop him.

[Takket]

96. it is in the video i replied to...

the white woman bumped the black girl (before the video starts) and at the beginning of the video they want the white woman to apologize. but the white woman, who simply could have just said she was sorry and it all likely would have been over at that point, refused to do so and the situation just escalated from there.

some people would rather pull a gun then ever admit they were wrong about anything.

[Omen78]

30. Frankly..

They're all acting stupidly. Say your peace and move on. Common courtesy and basic civility would have prevented everything.

[StarfishSaver]

32. No. This has nothing to do with a lack of "civility" or "courtesy"

This is about a white woman pulling a gun on a black woman who touched her car because she was about to be run over.

[Omen78]

34. We'll just have to disagree

[gollygee]

35. Let's see you have a gun pulled on you

when people who shoot people who look like you rarely face consequences, and you know it and the person with the gun knows it, and then let's see how you respond. You can't armchair quarterback this kind of thing.

What would have solved this problem is if the White woman didn't feel threatened by someone tapping the back of her car and didn't pull out her gun.

[StarfishSaver]

39. Thank you

It is exhausting having to constantly explain this TO OUR ALLIES.

[Omen78]

40. I've had a gun pulled on me.

That is beside the point. You're telling me that common courtesy and basic civility wouldn't have stopped the incident? The situation didn't need to go that far on both sides.

[gollygee]

41. I think the best protection Black people have right now

is cell phone cameras. The only thing keeping people alive sometimes is the existence of evidence and the knowledge that evidence might lead to consequences.

[StarfishSaver]

43. "Both sides"

Gotcha.

[Ferrets are Cool]

49. Sheesh, so now its OK to pull a gun on someone "just cuz"?

Gimme a fucking break.

[Bettie]

44. I'd ask what is wrong with people

but I know what's wrong with "Karen" here.

She's angry and scared that she has to share "her" world with people who don't look like her.

I hate these people.

I feel so sorry for those kids, there is no excuse for that woman's behavior. None.

[USALiberal]

63. FFS another "Karen" mention. nt

[obamanut2012]

66. +1

[Bettie]

68. Sure, that's the issue

not that she's a terrible excuse for a human being, but that you personally don't like "Karen".

I'm a white women. I don't get all indignant about that word, because I know I don't act like the person it currently indicates.

But, by all means, excuse the behavior if you want to. Do you have a handy list of excuses why it was OK for her to wave her gun in that family's face?

[gollygee]

72. Another opportunity to center white women's discomfort! nt

[MagickMuffin]

48. Oakland County Sheriff's Department which could not confirm the woman's identity.

I wonder why the enforcers are keeping her identity a secret.


Could she also be an enforcer or a relative?

And how do we know you really took her guns away?

[StarfishSaver]

51. If this had been a black woman

Oh, never mind. I'm as tired of saying that as I am of saying "If Obama had done this" ...

[Takket]

53. Detroit news article

Has some details about how this started...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2020/07/02/angry-exchange-video-shows-gun-being-pulled-mom-teen-lake-orion/5361865002/

[qwlauren35]

57. Absolutely nothing

that the black woman did was as wrong as what the white woman did, by miles.

What the black woman did should not be the focus. She didn't drive the car (potential weapon) and she didn't have the gun (lethal weapon), so, IN NO WAY was she in the wrong.

What the white woman did made the black woman very, very angry. And she expressed it. Everyone deals with ugly situations differently.

As a black woman, I find myself furious that ANY attention is given to the black woman's reaction. We need to get the white woman's name and have her shamed and ruined.

[StarfishSaver]

58. Thank you

The default for some people around here is to grasp at any straw they can find to downplay, if not defend, racist behavior by whites. There is never a shortage of "this wouldn't have happened if the black person hadn't provoked the racist white person" posts.

[ProfessorGAC]

59. Yeah, I Don't Get It

I'm never going to take the side of someone who is not under imminent threat when their first instinct is to pull a weapon.
It would have been so easy to have just driven away. But, no. She tries to hit someone with a car, then pulls a gun.
I find no rational defense for that behavior.

[StarfishSaver]

64. "Both sides behaved badly" has no place in a discussion of someone pulling a gun on anyone in this m

[ProfessorGAC]

65. Same Page

Absolutely no place!

[Maeve]

67. After reading the story and watching both videos

I was struck by the fact that the white woman seems more disturbed by being called racist than by anything else. And the man with her did nothing to de-escalate the situation. He could have and chose not to.
I also understand recording the incident--in a situation like this, it makes more sense than you might think; otherwise, the white woman's version of the story might carry the day. (It still might, but that is as may be in our current society).
Reaching for a gun and jumping out of a car like that? Only in America ...
Change has GOT to come.

[ismnotwasm]

69. Never pull a gun without the intent to use it.

Fucking racist, murderous piece of shit.

[StarfishSaver]

71. She may have intended to use it

until she realized she was being recorded.

[ismnotwasm]

85. That was exactly my thought

Murderous asshole. She knew how to hold a gun. Likely goes shooting regularly. Karen thought a minor traffic incident was dire enough for murder.

[Eugene]

73. White Michigan couple arrested after gun pulled on Blacks

Source: Associated Press

White Michigan couple arrested after gun pulled on Blacks

By COREY WILLIAMS
July 2, 2020

A white couple was arrested after at least one handgun was pulled on a Black woman and her daughters during a videotaped confrontation in a restaurant parking lot in Michigan, authorities said Thursday.

Jillian Wuestenberg, 32, and Eric Wuestenberg, 42, were charged Thursday with felonious assault, Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper said in a release. It was not immediately clear when they would be arraigned or if they have attorneys who could comment on the allegations.

Cellphone video captured the confrontation Wednesday outside a Chipotle in Orion Township, about 40 miles (64 kilometers) northwest of Detroit.

Jillian Wuestenberg can be seen outside her vehicle shouting “get the (expletive) away! Get away!” while pointing a handgun.

She eventually gets back in her vehicle which is driven away by her husband.

-snip-

Read more: https://apnews.com/a9a76dcc1b4a3d011d9c8278158154cd

[Blaukraut]

74. Why do almost all of these incidents involve white women?

Wasn't it white men who were the angriest about social changes? I'm a white, middle aged woman and I'm pretty embarrassed that my compatriots are acting like absolute, racist assholes.

[gollygee]

76. White women have a particular place in white supremacy

White supremacy is partly built around the concept of protecting White women. If we feel threatened, or even uncomfortable, the whole racist system kicks into action.

This also hopefully means we could have opportunities to interrupt racism in a lot of situations, but we have to actually do it. We can't center ourselves and our discomfort.

[Blaukraut]

77. I never looked at it this way. Thank you! n/t

[gollygee]

78. You're welcome! nt

[StarfishSaver]

79. Yes!

[sweetloukillbot]

81. That's what was so disturbing about the birdwatcher in Central Park

The women knew that all she had to do was say she was threatened by a black man, turn up the terror a bit, and she could have him killed by cop. She practically told him as much before she called the cops.
It's Greenwood, It's Emmet Till, it's countless other situations...

[StarfishSaver]

83. Scottsboro Boys, Susan Smith ...

[mysteryowl]

84. The full video explains what really happened!

https://old.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/hjuw2m/a_video_of_a_woman_pulling_a_gun_was_posted_here/

[PTWB]

86. It explains that there was more context but the brandishing

was still completely unjustified. The white folks are in jail.

[mysteryowl]

87. She was released.

[PTWB]

88. Indeed.

Released on $50,000 bond after being (appropriately) charged with felonious assault.

[ismnotwasm]

90. +1000

[StarfishSaver]

92. She was released and then charged with felonious assault and arrested

According to reports, she and her husband were given a $50,000 personal bond
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2020/07/02/woman-pulls-gun-orion-township-michigan/5365854002/

[mysteryowl]

94. Wow! Arrested Twice!

[superpatriotman]

95. Thanks for posting

There’s some major issues here

[ck4829]

101. Kick

[StarfishSaver]

103. Did you see she started her media pity tour?

I was so scared! I thought I'd never see my children again ...

Link to tweet