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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNBC nightly news just interviewed 5 pediatricians
Last edited Sun Jul 12, 2020, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)
All 5 agreed that the virus is virtually no threat to children, that transmission from child to adult is very rare, that the benefits of returning to the classroom outweigh the risks of the virus, and that they would all feel comfortable sending their kids to school. They did stress the need for social distancing.......
so... i guess we're all good to go for returning to school, right?
edit: added link to video
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/5-pediatricians-on-the-safety-of-schools-amid-pandemic-87569477784
yonder
(9,905 posts)nakocal
(602 posts)Saying what the president wants the people to hear. And sorry pediatricians are not experts on the spread of viruses.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)NightWatcher
(39,353 posts)Then two weeks later count how many have it because of the camp and how many are dying.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Nevilledog
(52,693 posts)LastDemocratInSC
(3,789 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Truthfully, I don't think anyone really has the right answer.
Crunchy Frog
(26,876 posts)I'm more willing to listen to experts, but ultimately I still need evidence, and I want to hear different opinions from different experts when there's any controversy involved.
I absolutely do not believe in placing blind trust in anyone.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,380 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)... then they're not experts about this virus any more than a TV meteorologist talking about climate change.
I don't know the details of their involvement, though, since I didn't see the segment.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)And they might form a consensus that it's safe to reopen the schools too? Time will tell.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Here's results of a study of epidemiologists in June 2020.
"We asked more than 500 epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists when they expect to restart 20 activities of daily life, assuming that the coronavirus pandemic and the public health response to it unfold as they expect. On sending children to school, camp or child care, 70 percent said they would do so either right now, later this summer or in the fall much sooner than most said they would resume other activities that involved big groups of people gathering indoors. Others, though, said they would wait for a vaccine, which could take a year or more."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/upshot/epidemiologists-decisions-children-school-coronavirus.html
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)... of the big picture, like the ridiculous stereotypes from "The Big Bang Theory" and the like.
Like I wrote earlier, epidemiologists might agree with them given enough evidence. We'll see.
Edit: Just saw your update, and that's fine by me.
Yavin4
(35,827 posts)An expert in pediatrics is not an expert in pandemics.
Also, doesn't matter how expert you are when you don't have all of the data. No one knows because we don't have enough data to declare that opening schools is safe for children.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)little too politicized for the good of the country. trump has not, and can't, convince people that things will be done correctly balancing the various considerations.
As another poster pointed out, if Obama were heading up things, we'd feel a whole lot better about reopening schools to some degree (even if just one or two days a week for reduced hours).
Yavin4
(35,827 posts)We simply do not have enough information about the effects of this virus to make that kind of decision because we have an administration that does not believe in collecting the data.
For me, it's not a question of believe Obama over Trump. For me, it should be if a state achieves a certain number of tests every day and those tests show a declining rate or a plateau of new cases, then schools can re-open. If not, they should be closed.
Tests, gather information, analyze, and then act. It's not about experts or what field they're in. It's all about the damn data.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,380 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)shows we can. If September rolls around, and it doesn't look good, we delay it. But, writing the school year off at this point is a mistake. And I believe that's what the experts are saying.
uponit7771
(91,151 posts)countries that have a bottom out infection rate have closed down their schools there will be no opening of schools in the US
I do not believe there are people on du claiming that the Earth is flat this is some stupid s***
usedtobedemgurl
(1,301 posts)I see a lot of folks saying to do work via the internet. Could you show me where folks are saying to forget the school year and not have it at all? I am shocked folks would just suggest going a whole school year with no work. I say when it is safe enough for politicians to not wear masks and go into crowds, day after day and when the White House accepts visitors and when regular folks can go back to work, it would be perfectly safe for the kids, their teachers, the school staff and the parents and grandparents at home.
uponit7771
(91,151 posts)usedtobedemgurl
(1,301 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"but only when they say what you want..."
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)uponit7771
(91,151 posts)Even Dr Fauci is back en Vogue on DU. The level of unintentional comedic melodrama found here is often spectacular.
Blecht
(3,805 posts)It is not one or the other.
Remember this blast from the past? The authors have credentials coming out of their noses:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
Data lacking to recommend broad mask use
We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical masks because:
* There is no scientific evidence they are effective in reducing the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission
* Their use may result in those wearing the masks to relax other distancing efforts because they have a sense of protection
* We need to preserve the supply of surgical masks for at-risk healthcare workers.
Quixote1818
(29,918 posts)That is an incredibly low number. A lot of knee jerk reactions here.
C_U_L8R
(45,401 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)DSandra
(1,035 posts)Studies have shown that children with Covid 19 have as high a viral load as adults. Talk about 5 bought and paid for pediatricians.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Nothing like guaranteeing job security!
Nevilledog
(52,693 posts)rockfordfile
(8,725 posts)We know trump has been trying put out propaganda in his favor.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)LisaL
(46,140 posts)onecaliberal
(35,117 posts)safeinOhio
(33,606 posts)Better sorry than safe.
LisaL
(46,140 posts)was waiting for covid test, she would drop her kid at daycare. Her covid test came back positive. Turned out kid was also infected and asymptomatic.
A lot of people got infected in that daycare, and my bet is on the kid infecting them, not the mother. Mother just dropped the kid off, and picked him up, while wearing mask. Kid was maskless and stayed in daycare the whole day. Lots of stories about kids getting infected with covid in daycares.
"The cases go back to a mom who didnt quarantine as she waited to learn if she had the virus. For three days she brought her child to the child care, Feathers said. It turned out the child was asymptomatic and both the child and mom have since tested positive for the virus, she said."
https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/07/at-least-16-sick-after-coronavirus-exposure-at-dewitt-in-home-day-care-take-this-seriously-stay-home-if-sick-at-all.html
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)Do any plumbers want to "weigh in" now with their knowledge about pipes and hence, windpipes?
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Response to Takket (Original post)
pwb This message was self-deleted by its author.
Sanity Claws
(21,970 posts)Did they see the CDC guidelines? Anyone ask why we should believe them over epidemiologists?
Bad Thoughts
(2,605 posts)Did these pediatricians work in emergency rooms or in research facilities?
Doodley
(9,962 posts)are seeing here right now (and rapidly rising)?
panader0
(25,816 posts)Then in less than a month they will shut down with many covid cases added to the totals.
Same with sports, which I miss very much. As I recall, the NBA was one of the first to shut down
long ago (it seems), but now wants to play. And baseball and football. It will not work out any
better than the reopening of bars, beaches and restaurants. More cases. Patience people.
Patience. Beat the virus, then reopen.
Doodley
(9,962 posts)every time a child dies, the blame will be laid on Trump's door.
LisaL
(46,140 posts)It's the teachers that are less likely to be fine. Then of course there are kids that won't be fine either, especially those with pre-existing conditions.
"That threat is real for older teachers and teachers with pre-existing conditions."
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/07/11/what-covid-cases-in-daycares-right-now-could-show-us-about-kids-returning-to-school/
Blue_Adept
(6,429 posts)That's only about 15,000 kids
Perfectly acceptable.
pstokely
(10,599 posts)we don't hear much about those
maryellen99
(3,798 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Quixote1818
(29,918 posts)Kids are much more likely to be killed in a car crash if that is the case.
Snip: In February, before coronavirus hit North Texas, the states 17,279 licensed and registered child care centers and homes were caring for an estimated 1.1 million children, according to the Health and Human Services Commission. As of June 19, there were 12,196 facilities open.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)How did that turn out . .
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)The American Academy of Pediatricss originally stated that policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school.
They walked that back a bit this week, saying it depended on local conditions and public public health considerations in mind.
Point is, these 5 docs are not quacks, out of touch with mainstream pediatricians.
I tend to agree that we should do everything reasonably possible to open schools as early as possible. Otherwise, we have little more than a home-schooling system, with roughly half the kids in a right wing home-school. Schools don't have to be open everyday, and there are other things that can be done to minimize risks.
LisaL
(46,140 posts)There are lots of cases in daycares. Many daycares opened then were forced to close.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)"We asked more than 500 epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists when they expect to restart 20 activities of daily life, assuming that the coronavirus pandemic and the public health response to it unfold as they expect. On sending children to school, camp or child care, 70 percent said they would do so either right now, later this summer or in the fall much sooner than most said they would resume other activities that involved big groups of people gathering indoors. Others, though, said they would wait for a vaccine, which could take a year or more."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/upshot/epidemiologists-decisions-children-school-coronavirus.html
LisaL
(46,140 posts)NT
Arkansas Granny
(31,727 posts)to tell us the truth about this pandemic and it has made many people very suspicious of information, regardless the source, that doesn't sound rational or reasonable.
As an example, in the early days we were told by the ecperts that wearing a mask wasn't effective and we shouldn't be buying them. This never made sense to me because at the same time we were being told that the medical community was at high risk because masks were in short supply. Now the experts are urging everyone to wear masks.
We've seen time after time how government agencies change their stories to conform to Trump's wishes (altered hurricane predictions). I don't think it's unreasonable at all for parents to question sending their children back to school.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)doesn't mean we shouldn't proceed with opening, even if it has to be delayed when the time comes.
rockfordfile
(8,725 posts)It does matter.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)whether or not its what trump wants.
I wouldnt vote for trump if he personally developed a cure for CV19, cancer, etc. That was true before he was elected.
rockfordfile
(8,725 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)its what trump wants.
I wouldnt vote for trump if he personally developed a cure for CV19, cancer, etc. That was true before he was elected.
LuckyCharms
(18,451 posts)They are not epidemiologists, and it seems that even the epidemiologists are learning something terrifyingly new about this virus every day.
These pediatricians are irresponsible pricks making statements about one risk outweighing another, because that depends on individual circumstances, including health of the children, health of their family members, and their specific locale...among many other factors.
But all these fuckers have to do is to go on TV and spout nonsense, and people will eat it up without thinking.
Fuckers.
Just like it was safe to open up everything way too early. Right you fucking assholes?
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)Disappointed in NBC, unless they were pediatricians actively involved in virus research or something.
LuckyCharms
(18,451 posts)I told my wife when everything started to open up against CDC recommendations..."watch what is going to happen in a few weeks...all of the people in charge are going to be running around with their hair on fire....HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? WE MAY HAVE OPENED UP TOO SOON! WE MAY HAVE TO CLOSE AGAIN!
The same thing will happen if schools are opened in the fall. The reason? No one is speaking to the American people in a way that stresses clearly that this thing is bad, real bad. We don't know how to sacrifice. We are not innovative anymore. We can't figure out how to educate children in a different manner for just one school year. Rush, rush, rush...get everything back to normal. Yes, there is a lot we don't yet know about this virus....but I need a goddamn haircut. I can't drink beer at home, I need to be in a bar. Put a mask on? I'M AN AMERICAN GODDAMMIT!!! A couple of nail salons have become hotspots where I live. Nail salons! Jesussss Christttt.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)"We asked more than 500 epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists when they expect to restart 20 activities of daily life, assuming that the coronavirus pandemic and the public health response to it unfold as they expect. On sending children to school, camp or child care, 70 percent said they would do so either right now, later this summer or in the fall much sooner than most said they would resume other activities that involved big groups of people gathering indoors. Others, though, said they would wait for a vaccine, which could take a year or more."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/upshot/epidemiologists-decisions-children-school-coronavirus.html
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)I can't read it because of the paywall, but I'd prefer to see an update from June. New cases were decreasing until early June.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Another quote, albeit cherry-picked:
"Several said school was so important both for their own careers and for their childrens development that they were willing to take a risk that they would not for something less valuable."
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)It's almost entirely grayed-out.
Edit: I have the NYT app, and get some free articles that way, but clicking the link took me to the app automatically and only showed part of the headline. Plus the reminder that I should subscribe.
LisaL
(46,140 posts)Cases are skyrocketing in many states.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Unlike dining out, there is a far more substantial cost to keeping kids out of school.
Arijit Nandi, McGill University
Would do it this fall
And here are comments from 129 more:
Two of my three children are in full-time child care again and have been back for a month.
As of right now, Im comfortable with the idea of my middle schooler going back to in-person classes in the fall (starting in August), which it sounds like is currently the plan for our school district.
Day care is still safe if the groups are small and stable.
Day cares will open for my children at the middle to end of June, and they are following strict hygiene rules. I have a lot of confidence in the staff and organization at the day cares.
I have three kids: two college students and one high school student. Regardless of the progress of the pandemic, I think it is critical to have some form of in-person education starting in the fall.
If the schools open, I am OK with taking the risk to send my two children (both will be in high school) to school.
Willing to take more risks with this, even though its not a low-risk activity, as it is more necessary than other, lower-risk activities.
There are also some responses, against reopening.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)We'll see what develops by Fall. I'm not making a declaration one way or the other, but just want us to follow the evidence and the science.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)It might be a regional thing too. I don't know. But, I know I'm not for just saying we shouldn't open until well into 2021.
rockfordfile
(8,725 posts)"Regardless of the progress of the pandemic"? sounds like something trump would say
LuckyCharms
(18,451 posts)the public health response is most likely not going to unfold as predicted in any study, unless an accurate "human stupidity factor" has been folded into the study.
Our number one priority right now should be a national response to this pandemic, not state by state, and not by addressing what stays open and what stays closed, but rather, how to defeat this virus.
The very manner in which this whole thing is being approached is irresponsible, and is like a death by a thousand cuts.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)... compared to pretty much everyone else, it's also going to be hard to even try to imitate other countries in regard to specific policies like schools.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)LuckyCharms
(18,451 posts)The cat is out of the bag, and it is going to take some real pain and sacrifice to fix things.
In my opinion, it can't be done piecemeal.
I want everything shut down that can be shut down until this is gone. The goal will be reached much quicker that way. Of course, a lot of money now would have to be thrown at families if this were to be done, but that's the price we as a country pay for messing up so bad.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)We could shut all that other stuff down right now, as part of opening schools in September for one or two days a week. Unfortunately, we don't have coordination at national level.
Tribetime
(5,682 posts)Versus the cost of not reopening
uponit7771
(91,151 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)uponit7771
(91,151 posts)... mass exposure rate in the US knowing in the other countries that have bottomed out infections have closed down schools.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)Phoenix61
(17,347 posts)Really? How the fuck does that work? Is covid checking IDs like the bouncer at a bar?
uponit7771
(91,151 posts)These f****** don't know what the hell they're talking about
Takket
(22,363 posts)here is the actual report if you want to see it yourself
lapucelle
(19,495 posts)ananda
(29,963 posts)They just won't quit, will they?
Now they've got pediatricians lined up to help them.
How many people have to suffer through this Covid
tragedy before they are stopped????
And yes, this is a real tragedy for all of America.
That it's getting worse instead of better speaks volumes
for the level of denial and sociopathy it takes to literally
promote more sickness and death and, ultimately, a
complete economic collapse before this is all over.
Sheesh!
Cracklin Charlie
(12,904 posts)How would virus particles know how old the person who breathes them in is?
This is stupid. Children expelling virus particles are just as contagious to any age.
Young children dont understand social distancing, or even covering their mouth when they sneeze or cough.
People think were stupid.
mackdaddy
(1,559 posts)They shut down the schools pretty early, and as I understand it very few kids get symptoms. But have there been any studies on kids and their rates of transmissions?
Last fall the local schools shut down for about a week because of the high numbers of of the standard seasonal flu. And this was months before the covid19 outbreaks.
Opinions not based on any data are just guesses.
This feels like when even Fauci was pushing the "no mask" idea even when the rest of the world was wearing masks.
Just found this story of thousands of Pediatricians AGAINST the widespread opening of schools.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/thousands-us-pediatricians-warn-against-184243725.html
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,594 posts)And masks should be a breeze in schools with no air conditioning.
With the over staffing of maintenance personnel cleaning and sterilizing should be no problem.
lpbk2713
(43,102 posts)Brotherhood of United Republican Pediatricians.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)schools has been closed since March and kids have mostly caught it from parents bringing into the home. If you open schools, children are going to be a significant vector for illness.
roamer65
(36,905 posts)The virus will spread like wildfire through the schools and be carried home just like the common cold or the seasonal flu.
Closed, indoor setting is what the 🦠 likes.
pitchforksandtorches
(338 posts)Hey Betsy,
If a teacher tests positive for COVID-19 are they required to quarantine for 2-3 weeks? Is their sick leave covered, paid?
If that teacher has 5 classes a day with 30 students each, do all 150 of those students need to then stay home and quarantine for 14 days?
Do all 150 of those students now have to get tested? Who pays for those tests? Are they happening at school? How are the parents being notified? Does everyone in each of those kids' families need to get tested? Who pays for that?
What if someone who lives in the same house as a teacher tests positive? Does that teacher now need to take 14 days off of work to quarantine? Is that time off covered? Paid?
Where is the district going to find a substitute teacher who will work in a classroom full of exposed, possibly infected students for substitute pay?
Substitutes teach in multiple schools. What if they are diagnosed with COVID-19? Do all the kids in each school now have to quarantine and get tested? Who is going to pay for that?
What if a student in your kid's class tests positive? What if your kid tests positive? Does every other student and teacher they have been around quarantine? Do we all get notified who is infected and when? Or because of HIPAA regulations are parents and teachers just going to get mysterious may have been in contact emails all year long?
What is this stress going to do to our teachers? How does it affect their health and well-being? How does it affect their ability to teach? How does it affect the quality of education they are able to provide? What is it going to do to our kids? What are the long-term effects of consistently being stressed out?
How will it affect students and faculty when the first teacher in their school dies from this? The first parent of a student who brought it home? The first kid?
How many more people are going to die, that otherwise would not have if we had stayed home longer?
30% of the teachers in the US are over 50. About 16% of the total deaths in the US are people between the ages of 45-65.
We are choosing to put our teachers in danger.
We're not paying them more.
We aren't spending anywhere near the right amount to protect them. And in turn, we are putting ourselves and our kids in danger.
OilemFirchen
(7,148 posts)So consulting pediatricians is pretty much counter-intuitive.
Is there a comparable discussion with GPs about the risk to,...ya know... the staff and relatives who actually are at risk?
LisaL
(46,140 posts)They are at much lower risk of developing severe symptoms. A lot are likely asymptomatic. So they are less likely to be tested than adults.
There have been many cases in daycares, in states where covid is spiking, such as TX.
pstokely
(10,599 posts)spreading it to higher risk school faculty and household members
uponit7771
(91,151 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,385 posts)the other 3 no more so than most DUers.
IMO NBC didn't search very hard for 'experts'.
BannonsLiver
(17,473 posts)Or as I like to call it, DU Expertn
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,980 posts)... for coronavirus spread.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/politics/cdc-documents-warn-high-risk-schools-reopening/index.html
(CNN) Internal documents from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned that fully reopening K-12 schools and universities would be the "highest risk" for the spread of coronavirus, according to a New York Times report, as President Donald Trump and his administration push for students and teachers to return in-person to classrooms.
The 69-page document obtained by the Times marked "For Internal Use Only" was among materials for federal public health response teams deployed to coronavirus hotspots to help local public health officials handle the outbreak, the newspaper reported.
The document was circulated this week, the Times reported, as Trump slammed the CDC guidelines around reopening schools and he, Vice President Mike Pence and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos increased their pressure on schools to fully reopen by the fall.
It is unclear whether the President viewed the CDC document, according to the Times.
CNN has reached out to the CDC and the White House and has not yet received a response.
LeftInTX
(29,086 posts)AwakeAtLast
(14,210 posts)AAARRGHH!
Alliepoo
(2,385 posts)Its just unbelievable that the media is now in on the big push to send our kiddos back to school to marinate in covid soup on the school busses, to sit in a classroom and breathe in the air that a class full of fellow students is spewing their breath in to. I dont give a crap if they go to a hybrid schedule. One day in the clusterfu** of sending our kiddos back to school is all it would take to make a bunch of kids/teachers/admin etc sick. Those pediatricians are welcome to use their kids as guinea pigs. I personally think theyre raving idiots. Too much we dont know yet. Its not worth the risk to our kids. They should be concentrating on getting virtual classrooms going and use that for the foreseeable future until we get a handle on this virus or theres a vaccine available.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)littlemissmartypants
(23,751 posts)JI7
(90,104 posts)JCMach1
(27,866 posts)BannonsLiver
(17,473 posts)Im delightfully close to a politics only experience!
GoCubsGo
(32,795 posts)All five of them should have their medical licenses revoked for spreading this shit. Are they trying to drum up added business or what?