For President Biden - US Grant REVOKED pardons granted by Andrew Johnson

[NewJeffCT]

Last edited Wed Jul 15, 2020, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Grant did this on his 3rd day in office. It was challenged in court and Grant won his case. So, Biden could revoke the commutation of Stone's sentence, as well as other corrupt pardons.

https://swampland.time.com/2008/12/25/more-on-pardons/

Ulysses S. Grant’s first clemency decision, on his third day in office, was to revoke two pardons granted by Andrew Johnson. Both men challenged Grant’s power to do so, and lost their case in federal court.


Grant also revoked the pardon of James F. Martin, but the New York Times, reported that the official order from the State Department reached the U.S. Marshal in Massachusetts “too late.” That is to say, Martin had accepted his pardon and had exited the premises. No effort was made to put him back.

[tritsofme]

1. This is misleading. Those pardons were never delivered in the first place.

And were subsequently withdrawn.

The clemency for Stone has been executed, it cannot be reversed.

[NewJeffCT]

3. What I read

was that the pardons from Johnson (not Jackson) were received by the prison warden, but sat in his desk. So, they should have been official pardons.

[tritsofme]

5. Received by the prison warden, but never reached their hands.

Regardless, the peculiarities that Grant faced do not apply to Trump’s pardons or commutations, especially not of Stone.

[empedocles]

2. 'Absolute power' is a troubling concept

'

Trump's pardon power is not absolute

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Tuesday July 14, 2020 · 12:37 PM EDT
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according to this interesting article at The Atlantic:

www.theatlantic.com/…

Maybe he can’t pardon his fellow racketeers. Some interesting quotes from the article:

'The power to grant “pardons and reprieves” includes the power to commute, or reduce, sentences after convictions. But this power is constrained by a limit: “except in cases of impeachment.”

the Constitution’s Framers were deeply concerned about presidents abusing power to protect co-conspirators. As just one example, regarding treason, the Virginia delegate Edmund Randolph voiced a concern at the Constitutional Convention that “the prerogative of pardon in these cases was too great a trust. The President may himself be guilty. The Traytors may be his own instruments.”

As even President Richard Nixon’s Office of Legal Counsel recognized, the Constitution does not allow a president to issue a self-pardon. These values point toward our reading of the pardon power, which limits the supposed prerogative of impeached presidents to pardon co-conspirators connected to their impeachment.

Read the whole thing!

I’m not a Kawnstitushanal Squalor, so i don’t have anything really substantive to add to their line of legal thinking. But as an asker of interesting questions, it would probably be worth asking, “Who would have standing to challenge Stone’s pardon in court?”

Put some fear into these rats, that’s the point. And you might even win the case by accident, putting the fear into future authoritarians.'

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/14/1960669/...
1 day ago · The power to grant “pardons and reprieves” includes the power to commute, or reduce, sentences after convictions. But this power is constrained …'

[Hoyt]

6. Even if that is doable, I don't see Biden taking much action against previous admin.

Such action would make folks like us happy for awhile, but won’t help move country forward long-term.

[MyOwnPeace]

7. "but won't help move country forward long-term."

Kinda' like what Gerald Ford said, and Nancy Pelosi took things "off of the table."
There are many who believe that such plans/actions are what led us to where we are now.
It must be important to establish the RULE OF LAW - no matter who gets their fingers smacked and who ends up spending time in jail.
Sorry - we cannot let it slide any more.........

[NewJeffCT]

8. I think the opposite

From Nixon to Reagan to Bush Jr and now Trump, each GOP admin keeps getting more & more corrupt (and Bush Sr pardoned key Iran Contra figures) - if we don't put a hard stop to their BS, we'll just get somebody worse than trump next time around - maybe somebody reasonably smart and/or competent.

[former9thward]

10. Would you want to see Trump reverse pardons by Clinton and Obama?

[NewJeffCT]

11. There were no pardons by Clinton or Obama

that were directly connected to Obama or Clinton. Seth Rich was a Democratic donor and was controversial, as was Chelsea Manning by Obama, but neither were direclty involved in Clinton or Obama operations like Flynn, Stone, Manafort, etc were with Trump

[former9thward]

12. Clinton pardoned his brother for felony distribution of cocaine.

That is pretty direct. Clinton pardoned his CIA Director, John Deutch. That is pretty direct. Clinton pardoned his HUD Secretary, Henry Cisneros. That is pretty direct. Clinton pardoned Marc Rich, a major Clinton fundraiser. That is pretty direct. He pardoned 12 high ranking officials of his Department of Agriculture. That is pretty direct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton

[Mr. Ected]

9. They'd squawk "politics" about it for awhile, but the furor would die down

When the evidence continues to pile up, uncovering all the crimes against the people of America.

If we NEVER do anything about it, because by its very nature punishment is retrospective, they will be further emboldened to push the envelope.

Trump is the offspring of such indifference. Let's kick ass AND set a new course for the USA.