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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is an excellent thread that recaps today's argument about the Manhattan DA's subpoena.
MyBeansLetMeShowYouThemHat Retweeted1/ This is an excellent thread that recaps todays argument about the Manhattan DAs subpoena does Trumps tax returns.
The judge is clearly concerned about avoiding unnecessary delay, and the DAs office is aggressively arguing that delay could provide Trump with immunity.
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This is an excellent thread that recaps today's argument about the Manhattan DA's subpoena. (Original Post)
mahatmakanejeeves
Jul 2020
OP
Here is a link to follow blow by blow the proceedings, a threadreader link.
Alex4Martinez
Jul 2020
#1
Alex4Martinez
(2,193 posts)1. Here is a link to follow blow by blow the proceedings, a threadreader link.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1283761364566188037.html
Trump has until July 27th (a week from Monday to file an amended complaint).
Presumably, Vance will then file a motion to dismiss.
And final briefs due by August 14th.
Trump has until July 27th (a week from Monday to file an amended complaint).
Presumably, Vance will then file a motion to dismiss.
And final briefs due by August 14th.
20/
Trump lawyer is now talking about discovery. "If an amended complaint is filed, which we hope the court will allow."
Huge delaying tactic.
21/
Trump wants access to things that were redacted.
Again he's looking at scope of subpoena.
22/
Said the schedule earlier was a preliminary injunction context and that's why he wants the longer time frame and notes that Vance has agreed.
23/
Trump's lawyer is done. Judge now is asking about the hypothetical re the determination of bad faith. Asks for a specific response to the hypo.
Lawyer asks Judge to repeat hypo.
24/
Here's the hypothetical: Suppose a hypothetical DA possesses documentary or testimonial evidence showing that entities of people associated with a hypothetical president engaged in criminal transactions that could impact the hypothetical president. . .
25/
And suppose the hypothetical DA believed this could provide sufficient grounds for an indictment or exculpation. How should the DA proceed in bringing this information to the court's attention?
26/
Trump's lawyer responded and said "in camera review" would provide the court the opportunity to review facts and protect the DA's information.
In camera means privately in the judge's chambers away from the public.
27/
Now it's Carey Dunne from the Manhattan DA's office. "Without due respect to my colleagues on the other side. . What the president's lawyer is seeking here is delay. Everyday that goes by" the president achieves the de facto "absolute immunity."
28/
Dunne notes that while president has right to articulate new claims and allegations.
He does not get to take the DA's deposition. He's just like a corporate CEO. He should not get these additional special rights, as per SCOTUS
29/
Dunne says, whatever he has left, bring it on in one final submission. "Let's not let delay kill this case."
We cannot let "justice delay become justice denied."
30/
"Not a single recitation of a single new fact" and that's what's "key here."
Once this amended complaint gets filed, that will become clear.
31/
Dunne said the president's lawyers have had a year to do the digging to see what facts they can find.
We are confident that there is nothing new. And court has already rejected these.
32/
Dunne is now answering the judge's questions.
1. Overbreadth, already addressed that subpoena is almost identical to House. Objections already rejected
2. No different standard for retaliation differ from bad faith or harassment,
33/
Dunne also addressed the hypothetical
Said no need to get into filings under seal or discovery, but would be willing if required
34/
Dunne now gets to
3. Article II burdens. There is no burden at all because "he of course doesn't have to do anything to respond to the subpoena."
He should not even have standing to raise burdensomeness or overbreadth which should be Mazars
35/
By the way, I am noting that several news outlets yesterday said this hearing would only be about scheduling and no discussion of merits.
They were wrong. Glad I am listening
36/
Dunne said he welcomes a shorter schedule than what the parties agreed to. He really wants to conclude this with one final filing by the president, followed by the motion to dismiss.
37/
Dunne concludes, "Our office's position, your honor is "bring it on."
38/
Trump's lawyer is upset that Dunne is welcoming a shorter schedule.
Also said Trump is not an "ordinary citizen". Pointing to the part of the SCOTUS decision. Says court gave special protection against fishing expeditions.
39/
Trump's lawyer is MISREADING the SCOTUS decision. It was not fishing expedition in that part of the opinion, that was about Article II burdens as I recall. The fishing expedition part was for ordinary people. That's what court said.
40/
Dunne is given a minute to wrap up.
We must not a apply a new heightened showing standard that was explicitly rejected by SCOTUS.
41/
The Judge thanks both sides for helpful discussion and answering court questions and for making submission in a timely matter.
Only action open is question concerning schedule.
He endorsed schedule and will look for submissions "in due course."
"Have a good day."
42/
What this means:
Trump has until July 27th (a week from Monday to file an amended complaint).
Presumably, Vance will then file a motion to dismiss.
And final briefs due by August 14th.
43/43
That should say "from"
Shoot. Freudian slip typo. That should say "With"
Trump lawyer is now talking about discovery. "If an amended complaint is filed, which we hope the court will allow."
Huge delaying tactic.
21/
Trump wants access to things that were redacted.
Again he's looking at scope of subpoena.
22/
Said the schedule earlier was a preliminary injunction context and that's why he wants the longer time frame and notes that Vance has agreed.
23/
Trump's lawyer is done. Judge now is asking about the hypothetical re the determination of bad faith. Asks for a specific response to the hypo.
Lawyer asks Judge to repeat hypo.
24/
Here's the hypothetical: Suppose a hypothetical DA possesses documentary or testimonial evidence showing that entities of people associated with a hypothetical president engaged in criminal transactions that could impact the hypothetical president. . .
25/
And suppose the hypothetical DA believed this could provide sufficient grounds for an indictment or exculpation. How should the DA proceed in bringing this information to the court's attention?
26/
Trump's lawyer responded and said "in camera review" would provide the court the opportunity to review facts and protect the DA's information.
In camera means privately in the judge's chambers away from the public.
27/
Now it's Carey Dunne from the Manhattan DA's office. "Without due respect to my colleagues on the other side. . What the president's lawyer is seeking here is delay. Everyday that goes by" the president achieves the de facto "absolute immunity."
28/
Dunne notes that while president has right to articulate new claims and allegations.
He does not get to take the DA's deposition. He's just like a corporate CEO. He should not get these additional special rights, as per SCOTUS
29/
Dunne says, whatever he has left, bring it on in one final submission. "Let's not let delay kill this case."
We cannot let "justice delay become justice denied."
30/
"Not a single recitation of a single new fact" and that's what's "key here."
Once this amended complaint gets filed, that will become clear.
31/
Dunne said the president's lawyers have had a year to do the digging to see what facts they can find.
We are confident that there is nothing new. And court has already rejected these.
32/
Dunne is now answering the judge's questions.
1. Overbreadth, already addressed that subpoena is almost identical to House. Objections already rejected
2. No different standard for retaliation differ from bad faith or harassment,
33/
Dunne also addressed the hypothetical
Said no need to get into filings under seal or discovery, but would be willing if required
34/
Dunne now gets to
3. Article II burdens. There is no burden at all because "he of course doesn't have to do anything to respond to the subpoena."
He should not even have standing to raise burdensomeness or overbreadth which should be Mazars
35/
By the way, I am noting that several news outlets yesterday said this hearing would only be about scheduling and no discussion of merits.
They were wrong. Glad I am listening
36/
Dunne said he welcomes a shorter schedule than what the parties agreed to. He really wants to conclude this with one final filing by the president, followed by the motion to dismiss.
37/
Dunne concludes, "Our office's position, your honor is "bring it on."
38/
Trump's lawyer is upset that Dunne is welcoming a shorter schedule.
Also said Trump is not an "ordinary citizen". Pointing to the part of the SCOTUS decision. Says court gave special protection against fishing expeditions.
39/
Trump's lawyer is MISREADING the SCOTUS decision. It was not fishing expedition in that part of the opinion, that was about Article II burdens as I recall. The fishing expedition part was for ordinary people. That's what court said.
40/
Dunne is given a minute to wrap up.
We must not a apply a new heightened showing standard that was explicitly rejected by SCOTUS.
41/
The Judge thanks both sides for helpful discussion and answering court questions and for making submission in a timely matter.
Only action open is question concerning schedule.
He endorsed schedule and will look for submissions "in due course."
"Have a good day."
42/
What this means:
Trump has until July 27th (a week from Monday to file an amended complaint).
Presumably, Vance will then file a motion to dismiss.
And final briefs due by August 14th.
43/43
That should say "from"
Shoot. Freudian slip typo. That should say "With"
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,312 posts)2. Thanks. NT
Alex4Martinez
(2,193 posts)3. Trump has until July 27th to refile, Final Briefs due by August 14th.
Hopefully, plenty of time to wrap this up by election day or, at very least, make political hay out of his failure to disclose.
Trump has until July 27th (a week from Monday to file an amended complaint).
Presumably, Vance will then file a motion to dismiss.
And final briefs due by August 14th.
Yonnie3
(17,422 posts)4. There is an amusing typo
I was reading her tweets as they happened and laughed at this one.
"Now it's Carey Dunne from the Manhattan DA's office. "Without due respect to my colleagues on the other side. . What the president's lawyer is seeking here is delay. Everyday that goes by" the president achieves the de facto "absolute immunity."
She corrected it to "with" in a response.
SallyHemmings
(1,819 posts)5. Under the circumstances, the typo felt right
Yonnie3
(17,422 posts)6. Indeed