Disaster For Trump As Judge Speeds Up NY Case For His Tax Returns

[applegrove]

BY JASON EASLEY at PoliticusUSA

Disaster For Trump As Judge Speeds Up NY Case For His Tax Returns

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/07/16/judge-speeds-up-ny-trump-tax-returns-case.html

"SNIP......

The judge sped up the timeline for Trump to turn over his tax returns after his stalling tactics were rejected during a Thursday hearing.

.......

Trump’s whole gameplan has been to drag out the Manhattan DA’s subpoena through endless litigation that he thought would allow him to run out the clock and get through the presidential election, but that is not what is happening.

The President is losing at light speed. It is very possible that not only will DA Vance has his tax returns before the election, but also Trump and members of his family could be indicted for lying on business and loan documents in the middle of the presidential election.

The Supreme Court decision has turned a snowball into an avalanche as the odds are growing the Donald Trump could be criminally indicted.

........SNIP"

[qazplm135]

1. final briefs due by mid August...ok

and then a ruling what late August. And then an appeal. So now we are in September. I just don't see it.

[Grins]

9. Agree.

Unless Vance has a team of financial forensic analysts (and I mean 50-100 of them) already in place and set to pore over those records, this will be bupkis in October.

On a side note, a friend of mine has a friend who has a friend (so you see where this is going) who is a retired IRS investigator. When the stories about Trump and his taxes were popping back in 2018, the former IRS investigator thought that Trump’s taxes were so voluminous, so interlocking, with scores of sub/affiliated companies both here and abroad, that it would take YEARS to unravel the fraud(s) in them.

And I believe him.

[SWBTATTReg]

11. More than likely it is possible that what you say is correct, but I suspect that fraud often ...

reveals itself in many ways (different numbers are on 1 thing, not verifiable on other referenced documents, etc.). That's why 1099s, 1098s, W2s, as well as other numerous business documents that are required by local, state and federal agencies on a periodic basis are so important for they can readily identify areas of concern (and these are available already via the local arena, not held by trump entities).

From the hyperactive efforts trump is spending in trying to prevent the disclosure of the tax returns, it's obvious that some glaring discrepancies must exist, this is based upon my years of experience as a tax auditor (my degree in accounting, w/ emphasis in auditing). That's why I suspect very strongly that he's fudged numbers to get loans, inflated insurance settlements, inflated value of deductions (increasing the value of properties and depreciation is a biggie), items easily referenced and checked. Especially if as you say, 50-100 investigators already lined up.

All it takes is one glaring item to rapidly ID a problem, and then the investigators, if worth their salt, will delve into those subset of numbers (all this is basically a numbers game), and for someone who has seen patterns of business spending (after looking at hundreds and thousands of returns, it's 2nd nature to these people to spot discrepanies).

Take care!

[lastlib]

17. You, my friend, are a musician to my ears!

Find a number that looks out of line, follow it, and you'll find fraud--with the tRumpskis, I'd bet BIG on it!

[noneof_theabove]

25. so you are saying

that Christian Wolff [The Account] going to pick out all the 3's.

[packman]

53. Hey, kudos on the reference - Great movie

[Sgent]

48. The basis for the Vance (NY Prosecutor) investigation

is that he deducted payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen Dougal as a business expense. I suspect he did, and that's a very easy one to prove in front of a jury without getting into depreciation, etc.

Of course, after they get ahold of everything they may find more...

[SWBTATTReg]

49. The reason I say that once they start looking at the tax returns (and supporting documents...

normally supplied w/ tax returns) is that they'll find other things amiss w/ the returns than the relatively minor payments to these two abused individuals (Ms. Daniels and Ms. Dougal) ... for a 'billionaire', the $130K payment is very minor. Why don't admit his wrongdoing on this very minor deduction and pay the penalty and extra taxes? That's what normally the IRS does, they ID a problem w/ a particular deduction, disallow it, and demand extra payment of the extra tax and/or penalties.

I strongly suspect that there are other far more significant bogus business expenses than the $130K...at least the $130K can be used as a starting point for filing a false return (and signing it as correct). This is why I think that he's fighting the release of his returns, in that he's significantly understated income, overstated deductions, plus probably a lot of other nonsense deductions and/or claims made on the returns.

I suspect that the fraud and corruption ID'ed finally in the returns will be a surprise and all will be surprised as to how he got away w/ it for so long. Al Capone was taken down in this manner too. I don't know if rump will ever be thrown into jail as a result of his criminal conduct w/ regards to his tax returns, but he must be made to pay a major price for his tax fraud (the tip of the iceberg too, I suspect (the tax fraud)).

[Lonestarblue]

12. That's why Trump has over 500 companies.

Many of them are shell companies that are useful for hiding cash and creating expenses that never occurred. And that’s just in the US. Who knows how many companies he has registered in places like the Bahamas to hide illegitimate cash infusions from money laundering or illegal activities.

Why are shell companies even legal, and is there ever a legitimate use for them? They just seem designed to allow white collar criminals to commit crimes.

[lastlib]

19. Sure, there is a legitimate use for them--generating legal fees for lawyers.....

That's why they made it so easy to do.

[SWBTATTReg]

23. Yes! It does seem like shell companies are used primarily to hide ownership, assets, etc. from ...

various taxing agencies, ex-spouses, and other nefarious reasons. There are some valid reasons to have a shell company but not many. The primary reason is to consolidate a bunch of companies if someone owns, let us say perhaps a series of pizza parlors, perhaps 5-10 parlors in each state, with its own tax rules, and the holding company would have all of the pizza parlors in all of the states report to it their income etc. for tax purposes (and other reasons) so one consolidated statement can be generated.

I always wondered why in the hell he had so many entities and suspected from the very beginning when I heard of this number (500+ companies) why? I can understand a few, but 500? Seems rather overdone.

[reACTIONary]

18. I think the subpoenas are for ....

.... a wide variety of financial document he has provided in support of loan applications and the like. So they may be easier too review than his full tax returns.

[angrychair]

32. I would think

The work and documentation from Mary Trump and the NYT had to give them a massive head start on this on what to look for and where.

[olegramps]

37. I believe that much of the ground work has already been done, i.e., NY Times investigaton.

I have wondered if there was coordination between the two.

[Bev54]

50. I think much of the media has missed the boat

on this one, it is like they heard Trump's lawyers attempts at delay and Vance's office call them out and the jUdge saying there was no use going over old ground and it could be sped up, so all the media ran out to write their story. What happened was in the end Vance's office did not fight Trump's lawyers on the delay and so they are going over old ground and delay, much to the dismay of the Judge.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/trump-lawyer-prosecutor-tax-returns-subpoena-366203

[soothsayer]

2. They may try to delay with discovery (I gathered)

...but apparently his lawyers suck. So we have that going for us.

[unblock]

8. they're very good at delaying things.

they present idiotic arguments that any law student would be embarrassed to present because the arguments themselves sucks.

but they aren't trying to win the argument, they're trying to delay proceedings. and at that, they're quite good.

we can hope that time's running out for them, but i think donnie will simply refuse to turn anything over. that will cause a further delay. eventually the court will find him in contempt and eventually fine him $10,000 a day until he turns everything over. again he'll just ignore it and find some sucker supporter to pay the fine for him.

they're not done delaying things.

[reACTIONary]

14. I don't think he has to turn over anything...

... the subpoenas are for financial institutions that he has given information to. They will turn them over when final judgement has been made.

[unblock]

16. cool, that makes delays more difficult

not impossible, but considerably harder.

[paleotn]

27. What attorney would work for the orange dotard?

He doesn't pay. I wouldn't represent him if I were starving. Because afterwards, I'd still be starving.

[napi21]

35. I agree with your ethics, but there are always people to take a job if the $$ is good enough.

I doubt very much if there are any decent atty's who would work for DT and charge their std. fee. They'd make it worth their time!

[Rorey]

3. I take no joy in the prospect of trump being indicted

Just kidding.

It will please me to see him pay for his life of crime.

[olegramps]

38. As a former longtime resident of Colorado, I really miss it. Our move was necessitated.

I presently live in Florida. When my wife became very ill and we moved here to close to our grandchildren and our children. Colorado is a progressive state. Florida is dominated by racists, extreme wealthy and down right ignoramuses. The governor is a Trump ass kissing piece of garbage and the state house dominated by neanderthals.

[Rorey]

39. I'm so sorry

I love Colorado, and am fortunate that three of my four children also live here, so I've got my support system nearby.

I'm so sorry to hear that your wife is ill.

[olegramps]

54. Sadly, she passed away February 28th. Thanks for you kind thoughts.

We live in a world far different from that of many if not most who lived in close proximity. It is also compounded by growing old as your long time friends pass away. I am thankful though for it could be far worse. The families that are being torn apart by this deadly disease is going to be a major challenge for many. How much long must we suffer these idiots? Can we truly recover? It may take years.

[Rorey]

55. My deepest condolences

You sound like you are the kind of person to maintain a positive attitude, and I always admire that quality.

I'm at what I now call the "top tier". All of the relatives that were older are now gone, and now I'm saying goodbye to my "peer relatives".

I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

[olegramps]

57. Not to belabor the point but the loss of a spouse brings deeper meaning to the finality of death.

Thanks again let not lose hope during this troubling times that have been only magnified by the presidency of a man without compassion, a man without a conscience, a man without a soul. The black angel of the grim reaper.

[Rorey]

58. You're not belaboring the point at all

I lost my last husband when we were both 38 years old. It's been almost 28 years since he died and sometimes I still can't believe it. In the beginning, whenever something of any significance happened, I couldn't wait to get home and tell my Jerry. And then of course I'd remember. It turned into me thinking, "If only Jerry was here..." or "Jerry would have loved this", etc. I imagine that you're feeling those things too, especially with many more years together.

I'm not saying to you, "I know how you feel", because we all have our own experiences and feel our own feelings. I'm just saying that I think I understand.

I got married again seven years after my Jerry died, and got a divorce last year. I've been in a mess of emotions on and off since then, and found that I'm mourning the loss of Jerry all over again. It's hard to explain, but Jerry has helped me deal with the divorce in many ways.

I'll just add that an exacerbating factor in the divorce was that my (now-ex) husband did a complete turnaround, politically, during the 2016 election and voted for Orangeass. It magnified a lot of other problems in our marriage, and things weren't good. It took catching him cheating for me to finally realize that we were really done. He is still a staunch MAGAt. I really regret sticking it out with him for so long. He became part of the brainwashed cult, and there was nothing I could do about it.

[olegramps]

60. Life is indeed a journey that requires a constant refreshing of hope.

[soothsayer]

4. This is the discovery thing (Delay tactic)

Link to tweet

?s=21

Trump lawyer is now talking about discovery. "If an amended complaint is filed, which we hope the court will allow."

Huge delaying tactic.

[triron]

5. If Neal Katyal is encouraged, then so am I.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

6. I think his lawyers are fumbling.

Their arguments are no doubt suspect. They don't have a good legal justification for their delaying tactics, and they keep getting adverse rulings. There's also the nuisance suits for slander. That's called "vexatious litigation" (sue-happy people).

[ProudMNDemocrat]

7. Karma is a BITCH, Donald. And she has you in her sights.

Donald Trump is running out of legal angles because this has nothing to do at the Federal level,but state and local crimes.

[AwakeAtLast]

10. There's no protection for a candidate anymore

After what happened to Hilary in October 2015!

[la-trucker]

13. I think the judge is going to rule from the bench

and not allow a stay until appeal. The second circuit is also not likely to vacate the no-stay and that will give Vance 3-4 days at the end of the month to execute the subpoena.

Actually the subpoena is on Trump's accountant and Trump has no standing.

[triron]

21. Hope you're right.

Like to hear more from Neal Katyal.

[Cha]

15. Yay for Transparency in the Treasonous trump & Beans Criminal inc

[SWBTATTReg]

20. This is great news on the expedited time frame that the judge imposed in response to ...

lawyers for rump to attempt their delay tactics. An obvious ploy ... so instead of the refrain of 'but her emails!' in regards to HRC's emails, it'll be 'but his taxes!' that will be his downfall in being a tax cheat (obviously a big tax cheat too based upon his constant fighting to reveal anything of his taxes).

[ffr]

22. One man's disaster is another's opportunity to right the evil wrongs done.

Just in time too. Cus that Maxwell gal that just got busted is going on trial in 2021.

[3Hotdogs]

24. The case is about fraud.

One one hand, in IRS documents, he is so impoverished, he had to stand on a corner in the Bowery with a tin cup in his hand.... he lost so much money, he was almost bankrupt.

THEN --- at the same time,


in loan applications, he reports he is the biggliest milli -sorry-- billionaire in the history of the United States, that any loan officer would be a complete jerk-off to deny his loan application.


Since both can't be right, one of the set of documents must be fraud.

[Chemisse]

26. So not just indicted, but stamped as a FRAUD!

No wonder he's in such a tither.

[warmfeet]

28. Interesting to see.

Will anything happen?

[not_the_one]

29. Can you imagine where we would be if the very 1st "delay" appeal was "sped up"?

So a judge decides it is too important AT THIS POINT to drag it out...

This should have been done with the first subpoena appeal and the first tax return delay appeal.



But I will try to be happy with the little we get, as late as it is...

[pbmus]

30. I am not going to be muellered again...

He, nor any member of his family will be imprisoned...

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

36. Correct...I believe that also...

We will never realize any of our “perp walk” fantasies. And he’ll probably die peacefully in his sleep not from a massive heart attack caused from a horrendous coughing spell on the podium of a rally.

Piss ass will never see the justice we want for him or his heirs.

[Wawannabe]

45. Bye bye fantasy

😩😩😩

[SergeStorms]

31. Good!

It's about time a Judge someplace put a stop to the endless bullshit of Trump and his legal fixers.

[getagrip_already]

33. hopefully, vance already has a lot of the info in the returns if not copies of the returns themselve

He wouldn't be able to use those in court unless verified though, but his office could do a lot of investigations based on uncertified copies. Then when they get the real copies, they can move quickly.

Lots of people have been flipped between nys and muehlers original investigations. Just because muehler's evidence got shredded doesn't mean nys also didn't have access to that info..... One would think muehler would have sought them out as a place to safeguard his investigation. He knew what his buddy barr was going to do.

[UTUSN]

34. K&R

[ecstatic]

40. Good. People are dying. Expose and expunge him

from the White House and our lives.

[bucolic_frolic]

41. It's too sensitive, I doubt we'll ever see them

is it a cover for something akin to a real life Holcroft Covenant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ludlum

"His depictions of terrorism in books such as The Holcroft Covenant and The Matarese Circle reflected the theory that terrorists, rather than being merely isolated bands of ideologically motivated extremists, are actually pawns of governments or private organizations who are using them to facilitate the establishment of authoritarian rule."

Watch the movie. Pay attention to the speech at the very end.

[Lock him up.]

51. We will not see them (but perhaps in History books during Biden's admin or later).

The case is for Mazar to send them to Vance. Only then if Vance's office finds "irregularities" (tax frauds or/and else) in specific locations (probably ready to look at), we may see the specific numbers but that's pure speculation.

RICO, though...

BRING JUSTICE BACK AGAIN
RICO TRUMPs & ACCOMPLICES
THEN LOCK 'EM ALL UP!*&1%*!

[meow2u3]

42. The judge should dismiss Trump's delay tactics as a frivolous suit

eom

[Stuart G]

43. Thank You for posting...K and R

[Wawannabe]

44. If only!

Not holding my breath!

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

46. K & R

[crickets]

47. Good. The foot dragging has gone on long enough. nt

[LudwigPastorius]

56. "It is very possible that not only will DA Vance has his tax returns before the election, but...

...also Trump and members of his family could be indicted for lying on business and loan documents in the middle of the presidential election."

[DenverJared]

59. I agree completely.

I think the judge is going to deny Trump's motions objecting to the subpoena and refuse to issue a stay pending appeal.
Trumps' lawyers will hastily file an emergency appeal and plea for a stay from the circuit. The appeal will be filed but the circuit is unlikely to grant a stay because there is no irreparable harm to Trump - the tax returns are going to a secret grand jury and if any charges are filed he gets another crack at throwing out the evidence in front of another judge.

Vance will execute the subpoena on July 28 or within days therefrom.

It will take a month to six weeks to go through the papers and an indictment will come down the pike which will spell out all the malfeasance (if any) with exhibits. We will see some pages of the tax returns in the exhibits.

[calimary]

61. Went back and read this again. Eager for updates on the case.

Don’t let this bastard run out the clock.

ALL his usual tricks need to be batted away. ALL of them.