Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:19 AM

Zalatix (8,994 posts)

Remember when I said the mandatory health insurance provision in the ACA was bad news?

Well, people's health insurance premiums are going up as much as 10% now.

Deductibles are also going nuts.

This ain't like driving a car, where you can stop and ride the bus. People are now being forced to pay higher insurance premiums just for being alive in America. And it's going to get worse, just like I said!

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161 replies	Author	Time	Post
Remember when I said the mandatory health insurance provision in the ACA was bad news? (Original post)	Zalatix	Sep 2012	OP
Link?	Surya Gayatri	Sep 2012	#1
74% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot.	NightWatcher	Sep 2012	#2
+1!	Surya Gayatri	Sep 2012	#3
You done sneering yet?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#5
You're making claims based on a sample size of 6 or 7 people?	Bradical79	Sep 2012	#12
A real source? Aside from someone who testified right here?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#29
LOL, you should be an investigative reporter	snooper2	Sep 2012	#47
Are you implying the DUer who made the post I'm referring to, was lying?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#51
I don't know where you pulled that from, not even left field- out in parking lot C maybe?	snooper2	Sep 2012	#70
Your post utterly lacks coherence.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#73
Dude...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Sep 2012	#91
No, but your arguments and your insults are at kindergarten level.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#92
Your understanding of the law you're criticizing lacks...	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#95
You mean a mandatory purchase law that originally was proposed by the Heritage Foundation	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#97
tell us what the tax penalty is for not having insurance on September 19, 2012?	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#98
"Shoot before you aim" derpishness is not becoming of you.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#102
but you said the effects are happening now	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#104
I'll repeat for you, since you missed it...	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#107
yeah but the limits on their rate of profit took effect	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#109
Yes, some got rebate checks, at least one got dinged 10% instead. I am willing to bet	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#114
Yeah. That Part.	Jeff In Milwaukee	Sep 2012	#105
Okay, Sparky, let me explain this to you.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#113
Jesus Christ, just read the fucking law, would you?	Jeff In Milwaukee	Sep 2012	#128
Apparently you read, but do not comprehend. Hence the fit you're throwing.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#137
Yes. That''s it precisely....	Jeff In Milwaukee	Sep 2012	#141
Again, you read "the fucking law" but you just don't comprehend. Let's see if you comprehend math?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#145
Oh for shit's sake, are you really this dense?	Jeff In Milwaukee	Sep 2012	#150
People in small groups will benefit the most	karynnj	Sep 2012	#142
Completely unrelated to the post you were responding to ... Really ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#127
So the poster I cited was lying. Did you make sure to tell them that in their thread?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#138
No, I'm saying ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#147
You just refuse to come out straight and say you think a DUer is lying.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#148
Okay ...	1StrongBlackMan	Sep 2012	#158
What is the logical reason that we should "move past that"?	tosh	Sep 2012	#61
Run with it if you want.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#63
I don't think that is within the bounds of Executive Privilege.	cr8tvlde	Sep 2012	#106
Anecdotal evidence of 1? Enough said...	Surya Gayatri	Sep 2012	#22
It's just one, eh? So screw 'em, right?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#31
I think we often rely on logical fallacies to better validate our faith in a position	LanternWaste	Sep 2012	#110
You're not even funny	Hutzpa	Sep 2012	#40
You're saying that DUer was lying?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#50
No	Hutzpa	Sep 2012	#57
Well they ARE going up. I didn't say they were going up for everyone.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#60
Isn't that another issue?	Hutzpa	Sep 2012	#74
My case, as stated in the OP, is that the individual mandate is not going to work.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#77
And you came to that conclusion by reading ONE experience from another DUer. nt	Hutzpa	Sep 2012	#82
Where there's one, there's bound to be more.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#83
I'm sorry	Hutzpa	Sep 2012	#131
the insurance mandate did not cause that increase	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#93
Perhaps that poster happens to have a particularly greedy insurance company	KamaAina	Sep 2012	#136
You're making a selective error in logic that you'd probably not make in other situations e.g.	patrice	Sep 2012	#154
No.......56% are made up on the spot....	Wounded Bear	Sep 2012	#26
Here's one link to a NY Times story last week (but there are many others if you google)	riderinthestorm	Sep 2012	#88
Mandatory private health insurance will solve this problem. For-profit care is the law! nt	Romulox	Sep 2012	#4
the should just rename Congress to "Rentseekers Anonymous"	BOG PERSON	Sep 2012	#124
I got money back a few months ago.	Sanddancer	Sep 2012	#6
It's not a poor analogy.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#14
Having a tax penalty imposed is not the same as being 'forced' to buy insurance.	randome	Sep 2012	#27
Buy or pay a penalty is not force? You have a strange definition of the word 'penalty'.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#32
So Democrats were wrong all these years when they opposed it? The President was wrong	sabrina 1	Sep 2012	#129
If i don't own a car i don't need car insurance.	Sanddancer	Sep 2012	#59
So the only way out of being shaken down for money for corporate welfare is to die. Gotcha.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#65
Yes. As long as healthcare in the US remains a business.	Sanddancer	Sep 2012	#79
You are not now required to buy insurance, stop lying about ACA	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#96
All you have to do is look at Romneycare to find out what happens when it IS	sabrina 1	Sep 2012	#130
Only people in the exchanges will be paying community rates	SickOfTheOnePct	Sep 2012	#132
outside the exchanges will require community rating	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#157
I'm not criticizing the law	SickOfTheOnePct	Sep 2012	#160
No, it's not a poor analogy at all, just the assertions are false	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#100
I've gotta say, one thing that truly irritates me	anarch	Sep 2012	#7
you think its bad now	MrDiaz	Sep 2012	#13
FAIL! When there is 8% structural unemployment, monetary stimulus by itself	coalition_unwilling	Sep 2012	#28
okay my friend	MrDiaz	Sep 2012	#84
We want everyone in this country to have health insurance. Don't we?	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#8
No. We want people to have Health CARE. "Insurance" is a corporate, for-profit concern. nt	Romulox	Sep 2012	#10
+1!	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#16
Do you agree that the ACA is preferable to doing nothing? (nt)	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#18
Yes, but the mandate is poisonous.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#21
The mandate is needed for the requirement that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions.	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#24
Taxes on the rich could have funded that.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#54
No. Making the insurance industry part of the government will have disastrous consequences. nt	Romulox	Sep 2012	#119
That is actually what single payer is. The government becomes the insurer. nt	stevenleser	Sep 2012	#133
Um, no. Single Payer does not include guaranteed profit margins for private insurers. nt	Romulox	Sep 2012	#159
I didnt say that it did. I said the way you phrased it = single payer. nt	stevenleser	Sep 2012	#161
The mandate does not provide everyone in the country with health insurance. nt	NCTraveler	Sep 2012	#108
This is their last gasp before the ACA goes into full effect and they know it.	dawg	Sep 2012	#9
No, I don't. Can you provide a link to where you said that?...nt	SidDithers	Sep 2012	#11
Yes, I'd like to see it too. And DUers'	DevonRex	Sep 2012	#17
Right here	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#20
community rating, which hasn't taken effect yet (nor has the mandate)	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#101
So? Health care premiums have been doing that for decades. 2012 national	sinkingfeeling	Sep 2012	#15
Exponential growth doesn't just keep going, in the real world	bhikkhu	Sep 2012	#25
The OP made a specific assertion of fact, has no data to back it up, and this	Warren Stupidity	Sep 2012	#37
See Post #5, are you saying that DUer whose post I cited was lying?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#53
My health insurance went up on average 25% every year when Dubya was pResident.	auburngrad82	Sep 2012	#19
You're insurance cost 6 times more in 2008 than in 2000?	hughee99	Sep 2012	#103
Actually it doubled over the first four years	auburngrad82	Sep 2012	#122
Use your head. This is step one.	DevonRex	Sep 2012	#23
+1	DinahMoeHum	Sep 2012	#30
Use YOUR head. Republicans will game the system. See #14	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#33
If it's so easy for them to "game the system", why are they desperate to overturn the ACA? (nt)	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#58
They'll keep the individual mandate. Corporations LOVE that.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#116
Thank you n/t	rsweets	Sep 2012	#34
Your OP is baseless.	Warren Stupidity	Sep 2012	#35
See post #5.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#36
So your claim is that anecdotal evidence, the statements of a few people on the internets	Warren Stupidity	Sep 2012	#39
First of all, I don't think the poster was a liar.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#43
As soon as you walk back your implication that ACA is making things worse	Warren Stupidity	Sep 2012	#45
I didn't say the ACA is making things worse. I said the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE is making things worse.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#49
The individual mandate is not on effect	jberryhill	Sep 2012	#152
The OP said only that premiums were going up by 'as much as 10 percent'. I have to	coalition_unwilling	Sep 2012	#38
The OP blames "obamacare" for - BELOW AVERAGE INCREASES.	Warren Stupidity	Sep 2012	#42
Please see my edited post. I think the 'tell' is that insurance premiums	coalition_unwilling	Sep 2012	#44
They have been doing that and worse for a long time.	Warren Stupidity	Sep 2012	#48
A Republican talking point? The individual mandate was Mitt Romney's brainchild.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#46
I doubt that	brush	Sep 2012	#41
Balony. The ACA is not what is driving costs up.	Lil Missy	Sep 2012	#52
guaranteed customers is bad	alc	Sep 2012	#55
Indeed. There are LEGIONS of ways for them to game the system.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#64
When you are limited to a percentage and control the purse strings	TheKentuckian	Sep 2012	#139
I sure haven't seen that. However, what do you think premiums were doing before ACA? They were NOT	still_one	Sep 2012	#56
As I said upthread, health insurance premiums should have been FROZEN.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#62
You keep talking about what "should" have been done in this thread.	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#66
And the Individual Mandate is a poisonous element. It was originally a HERITAGE FOUNDATION idea.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#68
It's not mandatory, why are you spreading misinformation?	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#71
So no individual mandate law was passed or upheld by the Supreme Court?	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#78
Is there a requirement today that you buy insurance right now?	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#89
No, but the law has been passed. Insurance companies are responding to that law.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#94
OK, Romney's your man. He has pledged to overturn it on the first day of his presidency. (nt)	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#72
Are you KIDDING ME? Romney was the guy who passed the FIRST health insurance mandate law in MA.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#75
That was a couple of Etch-a-Sketch shakes ago (nt)	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#80
+100!	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#81
Um, you realize how stunningly ironic this statement is, don't you? Um, don't you??? nt	Romulox	Sep 2012	#121
O'er here, reality check	nadinbrzezinski	Sep 2012	#85
Does it matter if premiums go up when the ACA demands that any $ not spent on providing care	stopbush	Sep 2012	#67
See post #14, and post #55	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#69
Maybe it's time for you to give up...you speak about a law you don't get	CreekDog	Sep 2012	#117
Maybe you should start trying to actually read what I said.	Zalatix	Sep 2012	#118
That's not entirely true...	Sancho	Sep 2012	#76
Oh please.	Loki	Sep 2012	#86
I don't remember when you said it....	Jeff In Milwaukee	Sep 2012	#87
Here is what the OP says that is total bullshit.	Warren Stupidity	Sep 2012	#90
Good post.	Nye Bevan	Sep 2012	#99
Hear Hear !! One of the 53% ers to be sure. All baloney, no bread.	cr8tvlde	Sep 2012	#111
I got a notice I'm getting a REFUND because of the 85% rule. Ins. premiums go up EVERY YEAR....	Obamamite	Sep 2012	#112
I'd be happy with a 10% increase, considering it has gone up more than that annually for decades.	Hoyt	Sep 2012	#115
no, I don't remember. *hides thread.	Whisp	Sep 2012	#120
Mine went up $30/ month. Capital Blue Cross.	WinkyDink	Sep 2012	#123
Our insurance went up a very small amount	gollygee	Sep 2012	#125
And mine went down for the 1st time in 10 years.	Lex	Sep 2012	#135
This title infuriates me and that "we" are even engaging with this, uh, objectivist, is offensive.	cr8tvlde	Sep 2012	#126
Not mine. Same coverage and premium went DOWN	Lex	Sep 2012	#134
OURS, TOO!!	renie408	Sep 2012	#140
Wonderful!	Lex	Sep 2012	#143
There IS an alternative to mandatory health insurance (assuming single-payer is "off the table")...	tledford	Sep 2012	#144
That's funny...	sendero	Sep 2012	#146
I'm still miffed that my FSA has been reduced to $2500.	aikoaiko	Sep 2012	#149
No, I don't remember.	Renew Deal	Sep 2012	#151
Huh? Premiums HAVE BEEN going up for years now. nt	valerief	Sep 2012	#153
they would have gone up regardless.	spanone	Sep 2012	#155
Duh, where you been man? Insurance has been	B Calm	Sep 2012	#156

Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:20 AM

Surya Gayatri (15,445 posts)

Remember when I said the mandatory health insurance provision in the ACA was bad news?

1. Link?

2. 74% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot.

3. +1!

5. You done sneering yet?

12. You're making claims based on a sample size of 6 or 7 people?

29. A real source? Aside from someone who testified right here?

47. LOL, you should be an investigative reporter

51. Are you implying the DUer who made the post I'm referring to, was lying?

70. I don't know where you pulled that from, not even left field- out in parking lot C maybe?

73. Your post utterly lacks coherence.

91. Dude...

92. No, but your arguments and your insults are at kindergarten level.

95. Your understanding of the law you're criticizing lacks...

97. You mean a mandatory purchase law that originally was proposed by the Heritage Foundation

98. tell us what the tax penalty is for not having insurance on September 19, 2012?

102. "Shoot before you aim" derpishness is not becoming of you.

104. but you said the effects are happening now

107. I'll repeat for you, since you missed it...

109. yeah but the limits on their rate of profit took effect

114. Yes, some got rebate checks, at least one got dinged 10% instead. I am willing to bet

105. Yeah. That Part.

113. Okay, Sparky, let me explain this to you.

128. Jesus Christ, just read the fucking law, would you?

137. Apparently you read, but do not comprehend. Hence the fit you're throwing.

141. Yes. That''s it precisely....

145. Again, you read "the fucking law" but you just don't comprehend. Let's see if you comprehend math?

150. Oh for shit's sake, are you really this dense?

142. People in small groups will benefit the most

127. Completely unrelated to the post you were responding to ... Really ...

138. So the poster I cited was lying. Did you make sure to tell them that in their thread?

147. No, I'm saying ...

148. You just refuse to come out straight and say you think a DUer is lying.

158. Okay ...

61. What is the logical reason that we should "move past that"?

63. Run with it if you want.

106. I don't think that is within the bounds of Executive Privilege.

22. Anecdotal evidence of 1? Enough said...

31. It's just one, eh? So screw 'em, right?

110. I think we often rely on logical fallacies to better validate our faith in a position

40. You're not even funny

50. You're saying that DUer was lying?

57. No

60. Well they ARE going up. I didn't say they were going up for everyone.

74. Isn't that another issue?

77. My case, as stated in the OP, is that the **individual mandate** is not going to work.

82. And you came to that conclusion by reading ONE experience from another DUer. nt

83. Where there's one, there's bound to be more.

131. I'm sorry

93. the insurance mandate did not cause that increase

136. Perhaps that poster happens to have a particularly greedy insurance company

154. You're making a selective error in logic that you'd probably not make in other situations e.g.

26. No.......56% are made up on the spot....

88. Here's one link to a NY Times story last week (but there are many others if you google)

4. Mandatory private health insurance will solve this problem. For-profit care is the law! nt

124. the should just rename Congress to "Rentseekers Anonymous"

6. I got money back a few months ago.

14. It's not a poor analogy.

27. Having a tax penalty imposed is not the same as being 'forced' to buy insurance.

32. Buy or pay a penalty is not force? You have a strange definition of the word 'penalty'.

129. So Democrats were wrong all these years when they opposed it? The President was wrong

59. If i don't own a car i don't need car insurance.

65. So the only way out of being shaken down for money for corporate welfare is to die. Gotcha.

79. Yes. As long as healthcare in the US remains a business.

96. You are *not* *now* required to buy insurance, stop lying about ACA

130. All you have to do is look at Romneycare to find out what happens when it IS

132. Only people in the exchanges will be paying community rates

157. outside the exchanges will require community rating

160. I'm not criticizing the law

100. No, it's not a poor analogy at all, just the assertions are false

7. I've gotta say, one thing that truly irritates me

13. you think its bad now

28. FAIL! When there is 8% structural unemployment, monetary stimulus by itself

84. okay my friend

8. We want everyone in this country to have health insurance. Don't we?

10. No. We want people to have Health CARE. "Insurance" is a corporate, for-profit concern. nt

16. +1!

18. Do you agree that the ACA is preferable to doing nothing? (nt)

21. Yes, but the mandate is poisonous.

24. The mandate is needed for the requirement that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions.

77. My case, as stated in the OP, is that the individual mandate is not going to work.

96. You are not now required to buy insurance, stop lying about ACA

89. Is there a requirement today that you buy insurance right now?