General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRiverdancing Black woman accused of "cultural appropriation", so Riverdance team asks her to dance
Great video!
Link to tweet
?s=20
a kennedy
(29,655 posts)bottomofthehill
(8,329 posts)Between sisters and girlfriends, I have sat through more than my fair share of Feis. As a kid watching my sisters it was painful, as I got older and the competitions weeded some of the awful out it got a little more interesting. Once I started watching the girls I dated dance as a teenager, it got a lot more interesting and athletic.
I will tell you, Morgan has real talent!
Also, the song below made me laugh.
https://m.
a kennedy
(29,655 posts)bottomofthehill
(8,329 posts)Thanks for the love.
soldierant
(6,847 posts)Of course it's impossible to generalize, but at least SOME Irish people can tell the difference between appropriation and appreciation - and can recognize a mensch when they see one. Erin go bragh!
bottomofthehill
(8,329 posts)She is so good. I loved her reaction to hen invited to dance with Riverdance. My heart dropped what a reaction. Whenever it is, I will be there. Love it.
Alex4Martinez
(2,193 posts)chowder66
(9,067 posts)She's terrific and I think it's wonderful that she will be dancing her dream w/ Riverdance.
Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)Not enough of those lately.
FM123
(10,053 posts)And such a smart & wise young lady for such a young age.
Farmgirl1961
(1,493 posts)Confusing äppropriation with appreciation. Good on her! Fabulous on Riverdance!
Dem2theMax
(9,651 posts)That has to be some of the hardest physical work in the world. Let alone being extremely coordinated to boot.
I would have loved to learn how to do that, if only my arthritic body would allow it. Hahaha. That ain't happening.
She is amazingly mature for a 20 year old. I am so happy that the Riverdance troupe is going to let her dance with them. What an amazing experience that will be for her.
And I absolutely love what she said about 'Appropriation vs. Appreciation.' Two totally different things. We should so be able to celebrate other cultures. That is one of the things that makes life so much more full and so much more joyful!
JI7
(89,247 posts)if things like this.
They will go on news if a black person committing crime accident against someone and start trying to make like blm are hypocrites.
bitter , hateful, trashy losers.
Warpy
(111,253 posts)are why so many of us can't do nice things.
I'm glad the response was so poisitive, she's really great. An influx of black dancers will undoubtedly mean an influx of new interpretation, and that's great, too.
(I'm old enough to remember the same hand wringing over the first few black faces in all white ballet after the Dance Theater of Harlem had outdanced them for a while. This is nothing new.)
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)"I was always the only one ever in my class"
But not the last I hope!
The Conductor
(180 posts)The folks who went after her never heard of "Black Irish?"
dawg
(10,624 posts)BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)As for Ms Bullock - Good on ya girl!
dawg
(10,624 posts)They were so much more than just "The Boys are Back in Town".
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)Paul McGrath is an Irish legend. What's more; he's my hero. Before I knew my own middle name, Paul McGrath was entrenched in my mind as my hero. My first hero. I can't explain why, or how but he is. I was a simple 6 year old just realising that there was an outside world when Paul McGrath entered my consciousness.
Paul McGrath is rightfully revered as one of Ireland's greatest players. He's had some tragic struggles in his life, but his public heroics on a football field were fantastic. He was a humble and shy player despite his legendary play. He's still a humble and shy man, and is someone Irish football is grateful to have had.
https://www.balls.ie/football/163426-paul-mcgrath-birthday-tribute-163426
Alacritous Crier
(3,816 posts)This is awesome!
GOTV!
pansypoo53219
(20,974 posts)corned beef, cabbage + chitlins.
generalbetrayus
(507 posts)but I'm in love with her performance, and her.
a kennedy
(29,655 posts)cstanleytech
(26,284 posts)Its not that I hate it though its rather that I have zero interest in it much like I have zero interest in western novels even though there are some old western movies I still enjoy now and then.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)So "zero interest" seems at best, wholly inaccurate.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)I find the lack up arm movement a bit bizarre.
MyOwnPeace
(16,926 posts)"I got thrown out of 'Riverdance' - I moved my arms......"
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)catchnrelease
(1,945 posts)It's definitely Irish in origin but the Canadians have made it much more relaxed and I think, more enjoyable to watch. Here's a link to my favorite guys performing. I've seen them in person a couple of times when they toured with the Chieftains.
(dancing starts around :35)
[link:http://
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,325 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,853 posts)3catwoman3
(23,975 posts)...group. Its very physically challenging, and a damn good cardiovascular workout.
She is very talented. I could never master that sideways ankle move. Kudos to Riverdance for being smart enough to call her.
Wednesdays
(17,359 posts)3catwoman3
(23,975 posts)...this clever ad. I also liked the Folgers one from several years back. Although I dont clog anymore, that type of music always sets my toes to tapping.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Does that mean that I can't play the blues on my guitar anymore? Damn!
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)taking something from another culture without acknowledging its origin.
Wednesdays
(17,359 posts)by Asians only.
I disagree. Cosplayers are celebrating the culture, not mocking it. Besides, not all anime characters are depicted as Asian.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)Im not Mexican, yet I study Mexican history because I love and appreciate it.
Yet Im accused of cultural appropriation.
Well done, ridiculous purists.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Living so close to the border, I have a great selection of Mexican food to choose from.
I've traveled quite a bit in Mexico, speak a bit of Spanish and love the the culture in general.
MyOwnPeace
(16,926 posts)Well, ironically, now you can!!!
panader0
(25,816 posts)and of course, wear a mask.
wnylib
(21,433 posts)understanding the difference between appropriation and appreciation, or how cultural customs get spread into other cultures, we would end up with things like:
No eating pizza, pasta, or tomato sauce unless you are Italian.
No potatoes or corn unless you are Native American.
No tacos if you're not Mexican.
No plaids if you're not Scottish.
No eyeliner if you're not a 5000 year old Egyptian.
Etc.
So long as there is appreciation and not misuse to denigrate a culture, it is natural for cultures to exchange and share customs.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)and peanuts are all "New World" crops. Does anyone have plans to picket the Thai Embassy? I don't.
I agree that it is natural for cultures to exchange and share. Food, which is the fuel of life, is one of the best ways to share and celebrate. What a dull, flavorless world we would face if different groups didn't share and inspire one another.
wnylib
(21,433 posts)as did sweet potatoes, chocolate, and chewing gum, plus many other plants and some animals.
What we call yams are really sweet potatoes, which are native to the Americas. (I use "Americas" instead of "New World" since the term "Americas" is more geologically accurate and less Eurocentric because the Americas are not new to their Native inhabitants.) Yams are native to Africa and are more yellow in color and less sweet. Americans picked up the word "yam" from enslaved Africans who used their own word for the sweet potato which looks so similar to what they were familiar with.
I mentioned Italian in reference to tomato sauce for pasta because their sauce with the spices they use for it have become well identified with them.
The word "chiclet" as a brand name for gum came from the Native American (Nahuatl, I think) word "chicle" which is still the word for gum in Mexico. The word chocolate is from the Nahuautl (Aztec) word "xocolatl."
Although the potato is apparently from Peru originally, it spread to some other American regions before Columbus stumbled into the American continents. The word came into English from Spanish. Spaniards got the word from Native people of the Caribbean region.
The history and pre history of human beings has always been full of cultural exchanges of foods, languages, religious beliefs, customs, technologies, etc. I'd bet that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals borrowed from each other, too.
oldsoftie
(12,533 posts)As long as you're not insulting theres nothing wrong with doing things other cultures do. Some might tell you that its wrong. Those people are idiots
onetexan
(13,037 posts)I make italian & cajun food. Am i appropreating?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Actually no Im not. Their is no cuisine in America that lends from more cultures than South Louisiana food. French, Spanish, African, Native American, English, German, Italian. Probably more. The entire cuisine is cultural Appropriation.
Cultural Appropriation is a bullshit idea create by people who write articles or academic papers for a living. Most people could and should give a shit.
Weve got serious issues to deal with.
onetexan
(13,037 posts)and i've learned to replicate some of the delicious cuisine. Crawfish anyone? Speaking of which, the Vietnamese immigrants who settled along the Louisiana gulf coast cities have taken crawfish & made a version of their own, called "Viejun". I saw this on David Chang and was amazed. Then i had Viejun crawfish at a Viet-owned restaurant last year here in central TX, and it blew my mind. SO GOOD! So there's another addition to the already large blend of cultures (Cajun) for ya. Also featured in Chang's show Ugly Delicious is a restaurant called Crawfish & Noodles owned by a Viet family. Wonderful fusion food as well.
scarletlib
(3,411 posts)Several variations but the one I am familiar with uses a stiff upper body and vigorous foot movements stomping to the beat. It derives from Irish folk dance. In America it has also been infused with African and Caribbean rhythms.
Since she is a Virginian I should think she could easily claim this as part of her heritage.
shanti
(21,675 posts)Quoting Bob Marley: Who feels it, knows it.
lpbk2713
(42,755 posts)She is very good at what she does.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)Black Irish!!!!
O'Bama is one isn't he?
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)In fact, there were some references to it a few times by his staff, used in a joking manner.
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)and eatery named Barack Obama Plaza. His cousin Henry Healy attended his 2012 inauguration.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)My heart literally, seriously aches with missing what he represented.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)a kennedy
(29,655 posts)Have two of them......and loved em. ☘️ ☘️ ☘️
Tanuki
(14,918 posts)on his mother's side.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/rediscovering-obamas-irish-roots/amp
..."In the tiny village of Moneygall, on the border of Offaly and Tipperary, the Kearney family turned to shoemaking. By the arrival of the Great Famine, theyd joined millions of fellow-citizens who were hungry for a restart. When, in 1850, the Kearney family learned that a relative in America had bequeathed them a parcel of land, Falmouth Kearney, then nineteen years old, set out from his twelve-and-a-half-foot-wide house for Liverpool. There, he boarded a New York-bound coffin ship, so named for the high mortality rate among passengers. From New York, Kearney, an intense-looking man with a pressed-down mat of dark hair, made his way to Ohio, and married an Ohio woman named Charlotte Holloway. They had children and resettled, eventually, in Indiana, where Kearney worked as a farmer. Their youngest daughter had children of her own, and those children had children, and those children had children. One of the little Irish babies was Barack Obama."....(more at link)
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)It has to do with foreign invaders in Irish history (think: Vikings and the Normans). Theres an (erroneous) theory that it had to do with darker complexioned Spaniards who settled there after the Armada broke apart. Its a popular thought, but the term Black Irish predates it by 400-500 years.
cally
(21,593 posts)Most of whom died in one of the various invasions but the original inhabitants? May have been darker
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)The Vikings called themselves the dark as one of those Instill fear in the people youre invading sort of ways. That ended up translating into dark foreigners/invaders. The invaders who remained ended up being called the Black once it all filtered into Gaelic.
Todays surname for dark invader? ODoyle.
Its kind of hilarious.
Youre right about skin tone. Recent DNA research suggests that Stone Age Irish May have been more Spanish-looking. But then the Celts arrived, and now were a bunch of pasty folk.
But the term didnt derive from that. The Vikings called themselves Black more or less.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)DFW
(54,365 posts)...quite simply deserves recognition for being as good as she is.
Im thrilled that she has been, and by Riverdance, no less!
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)Wow!
Jimvanhise
(301 posts)There is no such thing as "cultural appropriation." America has long labeled itself a melting pot where many cultures merge and overlap. Suddenly being influenced by another culture is wrong? They should just STFU.
a kennedy
(29,655 posts)Skittles
(153,150 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)If we push activity against cultural appropriation to its limit, we will starve to death. Our commonplace food is pulled from and influenced by many cultures. I absolutely love Cuban sandwiches and Hispanic soft drinks, I love all types of Italian food. None of my genetics is Cuban or Italian.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)This whole "cultural appropriation" thing is getting to be ridiculous. Can I go to a Chinese restaurant? Can I take Spanish classes at night school? Can I celebrate St. Patrick's day?
Why do some people on the left make it so easy for right wingers to mock us? Can't we be sensible about these things?
JI7
(89,247 posts)and then right wingers use that to claim they are victims and start abusing random minorities .
the internet is full of white bitterness and resentment.
that's what trump's support is all about.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)JI7
(89,247 posts)don't count
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)One of our silly-assed things. If a white woman posted herself doing traditional Africa dances, I promise you Twitter would come for her. Ive seen it a thousand times. Its not some random people. Its a whole toxic ideology that invariably ends up infecting every unrelated hobby or interest you can think of.
Our side isnt perfect. We have toxic parts of our ideology, and the appropriation bullshit is one of them. Its meant to separate and divide. I dont subscribe to it.
NBachers
(17,107 posts)Another pseudo-leftist dweebo term used to throw condemnation acid at people for ridiculous reasons.
JI7
(89,247 posts)NBachers
(17,107 posts)How far do you want to take this?
JI7
(89,247 posts)people who were racist then turning around and using that culture for profit.
But someone who just enjoys something should be ok for everyone.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Thankfully, absurdities can inherently be taken to a much, much further degree than most people allow for.
Celerity
(43,333 posts)https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/beware-of-virtue-signaling-in-brand-communications-about-covid-19/574168/
Like everyone else, marketing and communication professionals have had a challenging few weeks. As the pandemic expands, marketers and customer experience professionals have done their best to keep up with, and bridge swiftly shifting consumer and brand needs.
We rapidly transitioned from a period when brands debated if they should communicate about COVID-19 to now, with brands tripping over each other to broadcast their coronavirus email messages to customers. If your inbox is like mine, you received almost no brand emails about the virus before a week ago, but in the past week, the volume has exploded. Brands seemed to go from COVID-19 denial to COVID-19 FOMO in a matter of days.
On Friday, I received more than two dozen brand emails about COVID-19. The problem is that few of these messages took a customer-centric approach; instead, the race to email consumers reflects a growing sense of brand virtue signaling, or outright desperation for business. Consider what customers need and want to hear from your organization to best help your brand while dodging potential risks.
Avoid Virtue Signaling
Virtue signaling is when your brand conspicuously expresses its values without actually taking actions to live by those values. Today, it's not enough to tell consumers that you're aware of, and reacting to, the pandemic - everybody is. We also don't need to know that your brand is keeping your employees safe - we hope that's business as usual. Finally, no one needs to hear how your brand is striving to continue its operations uninterrupted - it would be real news worth sharing if you weren't. If that's all your brand has to report to customers, then you don't need a special COVID-19-themed brand communication at this time.
For example, my mortgage company, with whom I have a completely digital relationship, felt it needed to email me "An important message" simply to say, "The health and safety of our customers and team members is - as always - the most important thing to us." How does this company, which merely processes my auto-payments once a month, have any impact on my physical health? And why would it be necessary for any organization to state it cares about the health of its team members? Put that on the list of the many things I assume is true of every brand, and thus, need not be said, such as that it follows laws and that its CEO puts pants on one leg at a time.
snip
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)Mostly when I hear them talking about Chik-fil-A.
electric_blue68
(14,888 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2020, 07:57 PM - Edit history (1)
BGBD
(3,282 posts)doing African dances....
I saw a woman on Twitter the other day, can't remember exactly who. Anyway, she was apologizing for having worn cornrows when she was in high school. I'm pretty sure she was close to 30 now, so this was 10-15 years ago.
That's nuts. I knew lots of white girls who worn cornrows at some point and nobody got hurt. I studied martial arts for years, I suppose that's not cool either.
JI7
(89,247 posts)did she have a history of being offensive to black people ?
BGBD
(3,282 posts)I guess she's more like 20, so just a few years ago.....but thats irrelevant.
JI7
(89,247 posts)behind some of the things they did . Their intentions in doing it was not bad but they learn more about it. I think people make a bigger thing out of these things they it should be.
It's not like there were a bunch of calls for her to be fired from whatever she does.
betsuni
(25,472 posts)It became popular and as far as I remember nobody (white) knew where it came from, they thought it was some stylist's idea. Like Diane Keaton in "Annie Hall" wearing men's clothes, fashion. Also, "10" was the first movie where Bo had an 80s-style lifting-wights-work-out body.
BumRushDaShow
(128,896 posts)But I think more because the hair style had been denigrated for years by "society" and resulted in many schools banning black students from wearing it, like what continues to happen with wearing dreads or twist styles today or afros in the past, where "Karens" will be sure to enforce it -
And then Bo Derek appears... and it somehow "legitimizes" it.
JI7
(89,247 posts)It wasn't about other people can't do or enjoy this or that.
But it was about pointing out the racism in society . The double standard.
obnoxiousdrunk
(2,910 posts)comes to mind , Iggy Azalea.
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)were hugely impressed by her talent. Shame on the BBC for making something out of nothing...they didn't even put forward who was supposed to be saying it was cultural appropriation.
matt819
(10,749 posts)She makes it look easy.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I really love the point that she made about the difference between appropriation and appreciation. It is possible for a person from outside a culture to appreciate that culture, I believe that should be encouraged.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)Thats about the dumbest thing I ever heard.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)misanthrope
(7,411 posts)Culture is humanity's chief tool of adaptation and is created to be shared.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)When ones culture has been used, marketed, profited off of without credit, denigrated, Used as constant humor punchlines (when only insiders are allowed to get the joke) had very serious attempt(s) at being destroyed entirely,
I think there is a way to honoring and there is The usual bullshit, never ending appropriation
Disaffected
(4,554 posts)Cultural appropriation - how absurd.
notKeith
(138 posts)More Riverdance. More Morgan. Less Trump.
Cha
(297,161 posts)and came back and took classes at the YMCA for awhile!
Morgan Bullock is Spectacular.. I really enjoyed this.. Mahalo, Takket!
Rt!
Link to tweet
panader0
(25,816 posts)She loved Morgan and said she appears all over Richmond.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)Lars39
(26,109 posts)Mosby
(16,304 posts)The musicians sort of creeped me out though.
I have never heard Gaelic out loud, it sounds sort of slavic. The melody and changes were quite unique.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)You could really see her operatic training, too.
Mosby
(16,304 posts)And really knows how to use it.
ETA look how far she is standing away from the mic, she has a super strong voice.
rwsanders
(2,596 posts)From what I have heard and read, the Irish are very welcoming and inclusive.
orangecrush
(19,544 posts)To be Irish
"Any man who judges by the group is a peawit"
just cool
StarryNite
(9,444 posts)So smart, so talented. Damn COVID gets in the way of so much. Hopefully she will get to dance with Riverdance at some point in the not too distant future.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)who was dancing in the aisle along with the music. Irish music and dance is loved by all the people of the earth.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Cultures are affected by other they meet and often grow from it. I cooked a very French meal tonight. Of course since I have french ancestry I get a pass?
And if you ate up about cultural Appropriation stop listening to and any 60s rock which was really updated Blues.
The republicans are in the position they are because they did not reject the far right racist elements many of them invited into the party.
Lets not make the same mistake and let the crazy left drive our ship.
If any person is good at Irish Dancing, African music or Korean fighting good for them. Who cares about their ancestors.
Wolf Frankula
(3,600 posts)used by BOCS to beat up on guilty white liberals and guilty white liberals to beat up on themselves. Should I tell the Gurkhas not to wear berets? Txapela is a Basque hat. I have Basque ancestry, they don't.
Wolf
betsuni
(25,472 posts)I don't know about Irish dance, but she seems to add unique techniques. Time for a tap dance-Irish dance fusion (add arms). Dance is international.
Who's going to tell non-European ancestry ballet dancers they're culturally appropriating? Nobody.
The Nicholas Brothers. Everybody makes a big deal over Fred Astaire, but I've never been that impressed. THIS is impressive:
area51
(11,908 posts)betsuni
(25,472 posts)I spent years and years in ballet classes and eventually had all the creativity and joy of dancing sucked out of me, just as regular school sucked all the creativity out of me. I didn't have a strong enough personality to resist.
The first time I saw break dancing was in the early eighties' movie "Flashdance." Fabulous! No formal training and incredible dancing. Same as graffiti. Art without the boring expensive classes.
cabot
(724 posts)She was criticized for "cultural appropriation." Twitter went after her. However, people in China didn't have a problem with it.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4184700/prom-chinese-dress-cultural-appropriation/
You wouldnt be blamed for thinking that with all the talk of cultural appropriation these days, most people would stick to neutral clothing with no hint of ethnic origin. But that wasnt the case for one teen in Salt Lake City, Utah, who wore a Chinese qipao (or cheongsam) a long, tight-fitting dress with a high slit thats made of Chinoiserie fabric to her prom.
Keziah Daum, a high school senior, says she was drawn to the dress, which she found in a vintage store, because of its modesty and uniqueness.
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)She's a fantastic dancer. The Riverdance Company showed great good sense in tapping an enormous new talent.
Go Irish or go home!
Raine
(30,540 posts)and I've heard it used by a a variety of people on all sides.
essme
(1,207 posts)I wish I had her talent-
The_REAL_Ecumenist
(719 posts)R&B, COUNTRY MUSIC; TANNING, HIPHOP, BANJOS, BBQ, Cotton Gin, surgically enhanced SKIN COLOR, FULL LIPS, AFRICAN BEHINDS; our twists, Locs, cornrows & braids & DON'T GET ME STARTED about our Kinky curly hair, & Lord only knows how many thousands of things have been hijacked by people too eager to get in front of things thought Trendy, Exotic, etc1 While I'm addressing how incredibly common for the average A.A. have AT LEAST 1 IRISH/SCOTTISH GGParent.Why shouldn't she be allowed to dance what is part of her direct bloodline? SUCH a STUPID thing to snot & sneeze over when there's CoV19, 140k+ dead & dying AMERICANS & counting, Russian bounties on the heads of AMERICAN troops, AIDS, RACIAL INJUSTICE, POLICE BRUTALITY, an economy that's on financial ECMO, 40 million of us W/O insurance in the middle of a PHUQQING PANDEMIC?!!! Cuz DAMN, JUST DAMN!!
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2020, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)
It was a complete product of place and time. American Creoles in New Orleans (the Paris of the New World) were schooled in European Classical music traditions, instrumentation, music theory, etc. That, of course, means Creoles of Color -- who identified with their European ancestry -- followed suit.
That was also influenced by European musical traditions filtered through Caribbean cultures that could be found in New Orleans as well. It is habanera components, the "Spanish tinge" Jelly Roll Morton referenced, abundant in the introduction to Louis Armstrong's 1929 version of "St. Louis Blues."
After the Civil War and Reconstruction, a more deeply and stringently segregated society changed Creoles of Color from their earlier and loftier social class into being "colored," on a scale with the blue-collar descendants of slaves. Those purely African Americans had developed musical traditions from field and work songs, gospel, blues and older African melodic and rhythmic influences. When that interplayed with the European training Creoles knew, infused with the new ragtime syncopation moving up and down the Mississippi River, jazz was the result.
The music form is a melange of cultural influences, born from the gumbo of humanity found in the New World.
The_REAL_Ecumenist
(719 posts)(hint: The African part of my blood line has been here for AT LEAST 200 years). There are NO PURE African Americans UNLESS they've very recently emigrated from Africa, as in STRAIGHT from Africa & even then, if they come from a country that was colonised by a non-African people, THEY ARE NOT PURE...PERIOD! The ONLY black folks I've EVER known to test out 100% African are recent emigres &/or students once they've had a DNA test & while I'm at it, ALOT of people who believe they're "pure" white, are in for QUITE a shock when upon receiving their DNA analysis, find that they're more than 40% SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN! Many light skinned black folks disappeared into white society in the years following Reconstruction AND the implementation of jim crow laws because it would be easier to live their lives. I have this FACT in my own family & in fact, a fairly famous TX Baseball Pro player is a cousin of mine 2x, 1 by marriage & 1x by blood. His father, who looks EXACTLY like my grandmother, even has the same surname as grammy's maiden name though the spelling is slightly different but identifies as white. Trust me, if you see a photo of the both of them, it's CLEAR they're mixed & quite dark; (Grammy's maiden name was McGowan however, if you look at the family page, you'll find at least a dozen different spellings as some change but it's CLEARLY the same family. We share Irish GGGrandfather who emigrated to TX from County Clare Eire. So, there's that...
Now, I have to humbly though STRONGLY disagree with you regarding the origin of JAZZ because it DIDN'T come into being as a result of European Musical theory but can directly be traced to the Dionysian, half, quarter & countermelodic notes, riffs, polyrhythmic musical traditions of West Africa. Jazz was BORN in the AFRICAN AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOODS of New Orleans & is known for it's utilisation of being performed differently each time, based on the interpretation, mood, accompaniment, of interaction and collaboration, (ever heard of "Call & Response"?), as well as creditting less value on the composer's contribution,should there be one & more on the performer & what they have to add & improvise.
European Music theory, aka, "classical music" is characterised by fairly strict adherence to the musical score, without any openness to interpretation, improvisation & accompaniment. The goal of European musician is to play the composition EXACTLY as it was written, completely & diametrically opposed to most African musical theory, certainly 100% different from "Classical" Music. Jazz was thought of as vulgar, "jungle music", etc simply because it arose out of what whites thought of the lowest & most savage of Americas, AKA black folks.
So, as I posited earlier & stand behind, JAZZ, BLUES, RHYTHM & BLUES, ROCK, SOUL, GOSPEL, ETC come from US, black folks. The very idea that somehow Jazz came from Europe makes less than ZERO sense due to where it BEGAN, how it evolved, what people & cultures it grew out of, etc.
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)It comes from the African American tradition of the Southern U.S. and was present in both work songs and gospel. So were the slurring/bending of notes that are related to microtonalities.
You can disavow the influence of European musical traditions all you want but all the older jazz musicians I know from up and down the Gulf Coast, most of all in New Orleans, tell the story I just relayed above. The notation, the theory, the instrumentation is derived from European music. Those were brought into the African American neighborhoods courtesy of Creoles of Color.
Trumpets, saxophones, clarinets, trombones, pianos, they were all of European origin. It was when they were mixed with African poly-rhythms, African American melodic invention and Ragtime's syncopation that jazz emerged.
Jazz is polyglot. I sat at a dinner table with Delfeayo Marsalis less than a year ago talking about this very subject. He and his family are far from the only jazz musicians steeped in its history who would say the same.
Jazz wasn't disavowed solely by whites either. In proper African American circles, especially as it involved the church, it was rebuked as "the devil's music."
As far as focusing on my use of the word "pure," that was in relation to New Orleans social structure, where Creoles of Color occupied a place different than that of other African Americans. That unique structure didn't exist beyond a small stretch of the Gulf Coast roughly from Mobile, Alabama westward to the other side of New Orleans. Some Creoles of Color were so obsessed with those bloodlines that they would only allow their kids (when they could help it) to marry into other Creole families from the region.
volstork
(5,400 posts)Thank you for sharing!
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)God that was moving. She makes me proud to share being in the human race with her.
P.S. And a shout out also to Riverdance for step dancing up and doing the right and righteous thing.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Shes not wearing a curly ginger wig and a glittery dress with shamrocks and a Celtic cross on it!
Unfortunately, thats the image of Irish Dancing many dance schools promote.
chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,186 posts)The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)We all have some Irish
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)pandr32
(11,581 posts)I will be watching for Morgan Bullock performing with the Riverdance team.
cstanleytech
(26,284 posts)be it music, literature, dance or art is that it is and always has been an absurd argument to make.
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)just plain racist. My own nephew is half Irish, half Filipino and adores Irish Dancing. He's doing great in the various State Feis competitions. I remember there was uproar by the old stick in mud Gaelgoirs when Riverdance first burst on the scene, because it didn't stick to the old rigid dance sequence, but stuff them.
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)I believe in the adage "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."