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Riverdancing Black woman accused of "cultural appropriation", so Riverdance team asks her to dance (Original Post) Takket Jul 2020 OP
OMGAWD........SHE'S AWESOME.... a kennedy Jul 2020 #1
Having grown up in Irish Catholic Boston bottomofthehill Jul 2020 #39
Love ya....... a kennedy Jul 2020 #42
Home is where the heart is bottomofthehill Jul 2020 #44
This song came immediately to my mind also. soldierant Jul 2020 #125
Just rewatched the segment bottomofthehill Jul 2020 #133
K&R (nt) Alex4Martinez Jul 2020 #2
That brought a tear or two to my eyes. chowder66 Jul 2020 #3
Thanks for the happy tears! :-) Maru Kitteh Jul 2020 #4
She is so talented! FM123 Jul 2020 #5
Fantastic! Farmgirl1961 Jul 2020 #6
First off, ANYONE who can do that type of dancing should be celebrated! Dem2theMax Jul 2020 #7
There are a lot of trolls who go on social media trying to accuse others JI7 Jul 2020 #8
Sourpusses, killjoys, and spoilsports Warpy Jul 2020 #62
She's really good! ucrdem Jul 2020 #9
What... The Conductor Jul 2020 #10
Emerald dawg Jul 2020 #11
Phil Lynott - love that guy! nt. BlueIdaho Jul 2020 #88
I'll jump at any excuse to promote these guys. dawg Jul 2020 #120
Don't forget the The Black Pearl Of Inchicore, Ireland's Greatest Footballer ! OnDoutside Jul 2020 #131
This speaks to both of my cultures! Alacritous Crier Jul 2020 #12
its like basketball. she is great. pansypoo53219 Jul 2020 #13
Despite my Irish ancestry, I'm not a huge fan of this type of Irish dancing, generalbetrayus Jul 2020 #14
WHAT??? Ya don't like this type of Irish dancing?? a kennedy Jul 2020 #23
Hey I do not care about any dancing myself. cstanleytech Jul 2020 #124
Enough interest in dance to comment on a thread regarding dance. LanternWaste Jul 2020 #126
agreed Skittles Jul 2020 #32
Stephen Wright.......... MyOwnPeace Jul 2020 #51
... Ferrets are Cool Jul 2020 #60
I've come to prefer the 'Ottawa Valley' style for the same reason catchnrelease Jul 2020 #93
The ghost of Michael Flatley with visit you! Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2020 #34
Great dancing! MaryMagdaline Jul 2020 #15
In the early 80s, I was in a clogging... 3catwoman3 Jul 2020 #16
Did your house have a clogging problem? Wednesdays Jul 2020 #72
No, but I absolutely love... 3catwoman3 Jul 2020 #84
"Cultural appropriation"? panader0 Jul 2020 #17
SHe said people confuse appreciation with appropriation, and her def was great: Amaryllis Jul 2020 #20
A lot of people are adamant that anime cosplay must be performed Wednesdays Jul 2020 #75
This makes me mental. a la izquierda Jul 2020 #47
I'm not Hispanic either, but my DU name is from my Mexican bricklayer buddies. panader0 Jul 2020 #50
Feeling sad about that? MyOwnPeace Jul 2020 #52
I'll have to play secretly, in the dark of the night, panader0 Jul 2020 #54
If taken to extremes, without wnylib Jul 2020 #53
Tomatoes, like potatoes Collimator Jul 2020 #92
Yes, tomatoes originated in the Americas, wnylib Jul 2020 #99
Depends on who calls the shots. But its all bullshit. oldsoftie Jul 2020 #78
This cultural approp thing is going a bit too far onetexan Jul 2020 #87
Hey! I'm of Cajun Heritage. I'm offended. GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #94
hey there Cajun! :) I gew up in New Orleans for a time during my early teen years & love the culture onetexan Jul 2020 #109
Old style Dance in the South is clogging. scarletlib Jul 2020 #18
Exactly shanti Jul 2020 #73
Magnificent lpbk2713 Jul 2020 #19
Oh come on has no one heard of the whistler162 Jul 2020 #21
Ya beat me to it!!! dixiegrrrrl Jul 2020 #22
Actually, he visited Moneygall as President and they have gas station OnDoutside Jul 2020 #46
How cool. dixiegrrrrl Jul 2020 #90
There's no one as Irish as Barack Obama. Crunchy Frog Jul 2020 #66
My favorite t-shirt of the Obama era was from a place in Ireland that said "O'Bama". a kennedy Jul 2020 #27
President Obama actually did have Irish ancestors Tanuki Jul 2020 #37
Black Irish has nothing to do with skin color Sympthsical Jul 2020 #55
I thought it was from the indigenous peoples cally Jul 2020 #65
It has to do with how the invaders identified Sympthsical Jul 2020 #69
Thank you for providing the historical meaning. SharonClark Jul 2020 #112
Anyone as good as she is DFW Jul 2020 #24
Very well done! warmfeet Jul 2020 #25
A made up term Jimvanhise Jul 2020 #26
Hey, Jimvanhise, welcome....... a kennedy Jul 2020 #29
CORRECT! Skittles Jul 2020 #31
Yes. Blue_true Jul 2020 #40
Taking too far. Binkie The Clown Jul 2020 #28
it's not people on the left. It's some unknown posters on social media JI7 Jul 2020 #30
Really? Nobody on the left has abused the term "cultural appropiation?" hmmm nt Binkie The Clown Jul 2020 #33
some unknowns on the internet that the lazy media decides to highlight JI7 Jul 2020 #43
It is definitely on the Left Sympthsical Jul 2020 #59
While we're on the subject of Cultural Appropriation, could we PLEASE stamp out "Virtue Signaling??" NBachers Jul 2020 #71
isn't complaints about cultural appropriation an example of virtue signaling ? JI7 Jul 2020 #74
Virtue signaling complaints about cultural appropriation being virtue signaling is virtue signaling. NBachers Jul 2020 #76
I look at each case. cultural appropriation was first used to show JI7 Jul 2020 #79
Which in fact, illustrates the absurdity of both concepts. LanternWaste Jul 2020 #127
virtue signalling is not necessarily a thing only germane to the 'left' (and RW weaponised) Celerity Jul 2020 #100
I encounter right-wing virtue signaling all the time misanthrope Jul 2020 #103
I've only heard that term (VS) from a RW'r. electric_blue68 Jul 2020 #135
It doesn't take BGBD Jul 2020 #77
Who was she apologizing to ? And did she have the cornrows because she actually liked the style JI7 Jul 2020 #89
went and looked it up BGBD Jul 2020 #97
that doesn't really seem like a big deal. Sometimes it's just a white person realizing history JI7 Jul 2020 #107
I wonder if anyone remembers the 1979 movie "10" -- Bo Derek had cornrows. betsuni Jul 2020 #102
That caused a stir BumRushDaShow Jul 2020 #108
And this is an example of what Cultural Appropriation was about JI7 Jul 2020 #137
Yes, One name obnoxiousdrunk Jul 2020 #81
Well said. As I posted elsewhere, Morgan has been fantastically well received in Ireland, people OnDoutside Jul 2020 #130
That was great matt819 Jul 2020 #35
Very thoughtful young woman. Blue_true Jul 2020 #36
I'm Irish. I love that cultural appropriation. Squinch Jul 2020 #38
Cultural appropriation? mountain grammy Jul 2020 #41
Right I guess she appropriated the English language too grantcart Jul 2020 #61
An inconvenient anthropological fact misanthrope Jul 2020 #45
+1. yonder Jul 2020 #63
However ismnotwasm Jul 2020 #83
Bravissimo! Disaffected Jul 2020 #48
That just made my day. notKeith Jul 2020 #49
Brilliant! I Love This! I saw Irish Dancing in The Maritime Islands, Canada Cha Jul 2020 #56
I texted about this my daughter who lives in Richmond. panader0 Jul 2020 #57
Huge K and R Ferrets are Cool Jul 2020 #58
They'd flip over Rhiannon Gideon's singing Gaelic... Lars39 Jul 2020 #64
That was interesting Mosby Jul 2020 #116
She's so talented. Lars39 Jul 2020 #117
She has a beautiful voice. Mosby Jul 2020 #118
How dare trolls decide for another culture who can and can't be included. rwsanders Jul 2020 #67
Makes me proud orangecrush Jul 2020 #68
Cool! mdbl Jul 2020 #70
She's amazing! StarryNite Jul 2020 #80
I seem to remember a show of Riverdance in China and there was a little girl in the audience demigoddess Jul 2020 #82
The idea of Culture appropriation is total bullshit. GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #85
Cultural Appropriation is a bullshit stick Wolf Frankula Jul 2020 #91
Looks similar to American tap dancing. betsuni Jul 2020 #86
The Nicholas Brothers definitely area51 Jul 2020 #98
I love that they had no formal training. betsuni Jul 2020 #105
Reminds me of the white girl who wore a qipao to prom cabot Jul 2020 #95
Great story peggysue2 Jul 2020 #96
Cultural "appropriation" is stupid no matter what side it comes from 👎 Raine Jul 2020 #101
What a beautiful young lady! essme Jul 2020 #104
Does ANYONE know how STUPID this is to accuse her of cultural appropriation when, well JAZZ, ROCK, The_REAL_Ecumenist Jul 2020 #106
Jazz is a perfect explanation of how problematic these things can be misanthrope Jul 2020 #129
IF you come from a Black family who has been here in the NEW WORLD for at least 100 years... The_REAL_Ecumenist Jul 2020 #134
I'm thoroughly familiar with "call and response" misanthrope Jul 2020 #136
Awesome! volstork Jul 2020 #110
What a wonderful story, and a WONDERFUL woman Tom Rinaldo Jul 2020 #111
That's not Irish Dancing. SharonClark Jul 2020 #113
Cool! chwaliszewski Jul 2020 #114
Just WOW! TheBlackAdder Jul 2020 #115
Do the DNA. Bet ya find some Irish. The Jungle 1 Jul 2020 #119
Awesome!! 🥰👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2020 #121
This made my morning pandr32 Jul 2020 #122
My personal opinion over supposed "cultural appropriation" by anyone for any reason cstanleytech Jul 2020 #123
Morgan was HUGELY well received in Ireland. I suspect anyone making aspersions to the contrary is OnDoutside Jul 2020 #128
"Cultural appropriation" is so damn stupid. Goodheart Jul 2020 #132

bottomofthehill

(8,329 posts)
39. Having grown up in Irish Catholic Boston
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:33 PM
Jul 2020

Between sisters and girlfriends, I have sat through more than my fair share of Feis. As a kid watching my sisters it was painful, as I got older and the competitions weeded some of the awful out it got a little more interesting. Once I started watching the girls I dated dance as a teenager, it got a lot more interesting and athletic.

I will tell you, Morgan has real talent!

Also, the song below made me laugh.

https://m.

soldierant

(6,847 posts)
125. This song came immediately to my mind also.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:04 PM
Jul 2020

Of course it's impossible to generalize, but at least SOME Irish people can tell the difference between appropriation and appreciation - and can recognize a mensch when they see one. Erin go bragh!

bottomofthehill

(8,329 posts)
133. Just rewatched the segment
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 06:38 PM
Jul 2020

She is so good. I loved her reaction to hen invited to dance with Riverdance. “My heart dropped” what a reaction. Whenever it is, I will be there. Love it.

chowder66

(9,067 posts)
3. That brought a tear or two to my eyes.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 07:20 PM
Jul 2020

She's terrific and I think it's wonderful that she will be dancing her dream w/ Riverdance.

Dem2theMax

(9,651 posts)
7. First off, ANYONE who can do that type of dancing should be celebrated!
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 07:29 PM
Jul 2020

That has to be some of the hardest physical work in the world. Let alone being extremely coordinated to boot.

I would have loved to learn how to do that, if only my arthritic body would allow it. Hahaha. That ain't happening.

She is amazingly mature for a 20 year old. I am so happy that the Riverdance troupe is going to let her dance with them. What an amazing experience that will be for her.

And I absolutely love what she said about 'Appropriation vs. Appreciation.' Two totally different things. We should so be able to celebrate other cultures. That is one of the things that makes life so much more full and so much more joyful!

JI7

(89,247 posts)
8. There are a lot of trolls who go on social media trying to accuse others
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 07:30 PM
Jul 2020

if things like this.

They will go on news if a black person committing crime accident against someone and start trying to make like blm are hypocrites.

bitter , hateful, trashy losers.

Warpy

(111,253 posts)
62. Sourpusses, killjoys, and spoilsports
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:15 PM
Jul 2020

are why so many of us can't do nice things.

I'm glad the response was so poisitive, she's really great. An influx of black dancers will undoubtedly mean an influx of new interpretation, and that's great, too.

(I'm old enough to remember the same hand wringing over the first few black faces in all white ballet after the Dance Theater of Harlem had outdanced them for a while. This is nothing new.)

dawg

(10,624 posts)
120. I'll jump at any excuse to promote these guys.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 11:27 AM
Jul 2020

They were so much more than just "The Boys are Back in Town".

OnDoutside

(19,956 posts)
131. Don't forget the The Black Pearl Of Inchicore, Ireland's Greatest Footballer !
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:39 PM
Jul 2020


Paul McGrath is an Irish legend. What's more; he's my hero. Before I knew my own middle name, Paul McGrath was entrenched in my mind as my hero. My first hero. I can't explain why, or how but he is. I was a simple 6 year old just realising that there was an outside world when Paul McGrath entered my consciousness.

Paul McGrath is rightfully revered as one of Ireland's greatest players. He's had some tragic struggles in his life, but his public heroics on a football field were fantastic. He was a humble and shy player despite his legendary play. He's still a humble and shy man, and is someone Irish football is grateful to have had.


https://www.balls.ie/football/163426-paul-mcgrath-birthday-tribute-163426

generalbetrayus

(507 posts)
14. Despite my Irish ancestry, I'm not a huge fan of this type of Irish dancing,
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 07:49 PM
Jul 2020

but I'm in love with her performance, and her.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
124. Hey I do not care about any dancing myself.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 04:17 PM
Jul 2020

Its not that I hate it though its rather that I have zero interest in it much like I have zero interest in western novels even though there are some old western movies I still enjoy now and then.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
126. Enough interest in dance to comment on a thread regarding dance.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:15 PM
Jul 2020

So "zero interest" seems at best, wholly inaccurate.

catchnrelease

(1,945 posts)
93. I've come to prefer the 'Ottawa Valley' style for the same reason
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 01:18 AM
Jul 2020

It's definitely Irish in origin but the Canadians have made it much more relaxed and I think, more enjoyable to watch. Here's a link to my favorite guys performing. I've seen them in person a couple of times when they toured with the Chieftains.
(dancing starts around :35)

[link:http://

|

3catwoman3

(23,975 posts)
16. In the early 80s, I was in a clogging...
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 07:51 PM
Jul 2020

...group. It’s very physically challenging, and a damn good cardiovascular workout.

She is very talented. I could never master that sideways ankle move. Kudos to Riverdance for being smart enough to call her.

3catwoman3

(23,975 posts)
84. No, but I absolutely love...
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:50 PM
Jul 2020

...this clever ad. I also liked the Folger’s one from several years back. Although I don’t clog anymore, that type of music always sets my toes to tapping.

Amaryllis

(9,524 posts)
20. SHe said people confuse appreciation with appropriation, and her def was great:
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:02 PM
Jul 2020

taking something from another culture without acknowledging its origin.

Wednesdays

(17,359 posts)
75. A lot of people are adamant that anime cosplay must be performed
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:04 PM
Jul 2020

by Asians only.

I disagree. Cosplayers are celebrating the culture, not mocking it. Besides, not all anime characters are depicted as Asian.

a la izquierda

(11,791 posts)
47. This makes me mental.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:48 PM
Jul 2020

I’m not Mexican, yet I study Mexican history because I love and appreciate it.
Yet I’m accused of cultural appropriation.
Well done, ridiculous purists.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
50. I'm not Hispanic either, but my DU name is from my Mexican bricklayer buddies.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:53 PM
Jul 2020

Living so close to the border, I have a great selection of Mexican food to choose from.
I've traveled quite a bit in Mexico, speak a bit of Spanish and love the the culture in general.

wnylib

(21,433 posts)
53. If taken to extremes, without
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:57 PM
Jul 2020

understanding the difference between appropriation and appreciation, or how cultural customs get spread into other cultures, we would end up with things like:

No eating pizza, pasta, or tomato sauce unless you are Italian.

No potatoes or corn unless you are Native American.

No tacos if you're not Mexican.

No plaids if you're not Scottish.

No eyeliner if you're not a 5000 year old Egyptian.

Etc.

So long as there is appreciation and not misuse to denigrate a culture, it is natural for cultures to exchange and share customs.

Collimator

(1,639 posts)
92. Tomatoes, like potatoes
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 01:03 AM
Jul 2020

and peanuts are all "New World" crops. Does anyone have plans to picket the Thai Embassy? I don't.

I agree that it is natural for cultures to exchange and share. Food, which is the fuel of life, is one of the best ways to share and celebrate. What a dull, flavorless world we would face if different groups didn't share and inspire one another.

wnylib

(21,433 posts)
99. Yes, tomatoes originated in the Americas,
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 02:36 AM
Jul 2020

as did sweet potatoes, chocolate, and chewing gum, plus many other plants and some animals.

What we call yams are really sweet potatoes, which are native to the Americas. (I use "Americas" instead of "New World" since the term "Americas" is more geologically accurate and less Eurocentric because the Americas are not new to their Native inhabitants.) Yams are native to Africa and are more yellow in color and less sweet. Americans picked up the word "yam" from enslaved Africans who used their own word for the sweet potato which looks so similar to what they were familiar with.

I mentioned Italian in reference to tomato sauce for pasta because their sauce with the spices they use for it have become well identified with them.

The word "chiclet" as a brand name for gum came from the Native American (Nahuatl, I think) word "chicle" which is still the word for gum in Mexico. The word chocolate is from the Nahuautl (Aztec) word "xocolatl."

Although the potato is apparently from Peru originally, it spread to some other American regions before Columbus stumbled into the American continents. The word came into English from Spanish. Spaniards got the word from Native people of the Caribbean region.

The history and pre history of human beings has always been full of cultural exchanges of foods, languages, religious beliefs, customs, technologies, etc. I'd bet that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals borrowed from each other, too.





oldsoftie

(12,533 posts)
78. Depends on who calls the shots. But its all bullshit.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:13 PM
Jul 2020

As long as you're not insulting theres nothing wrong with doing things other cultures do. Some might tell you that its wrong. Those people are idiots

onetexan

(13,037 posts)
87. This cultural approp thing is going a bit too far
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 12:10 AM
Jul 2020

I make italian & cajun food. Am i appropreating?

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
94. Hey! I'm of Cajun Heritage. I'm offended.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 01:27 AM
Jul 2020

Actually no I’m not. Their is no cuisine in America that lends from more cultures than South Louisiana food. French, Spanish, African, Native American, English, German, Italian. Probably more. The entire cuisine is cultural Appropriation.

Cultural Appropriation is a bullshit idea create by people who write articles or academic papers for a living. Most people could and should give a shit.

We’ve got serious issues to deal with.

onetexan

(13,037 posts)
109. hey there Cajun! :) I gew up in New Orleans for a time during my early teen years & love the culture
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 10:10 AM
Jul 2020

and i've learned to replicate some of the delicious cuisine. Crawfish anyone? Speaking of which, the Vietnamese immigrants who settled along the Louisiana gulf coast cities have taken crawfish & made a version of their own, called "Viejun". I saw this on David Chang and was amazed. Then i had Viejun crawfish at a Viet-owned restaurant last year here in central TX, and it blew my mind. SO GOOD! So there's another addition to the already large blend of cultures (Cajun) for ya. Also featured in Chang's show Ugly Delicious is a restaurant called Crawfish & Noodles owned by a Viet family. Wonderful fusion food as well.

scarletlib

(3,411 posts)
18. Old style Dance in the South is clogging.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 07:53 PM
Jul 2020

Several variations but the one I am familiar with uses a stiff upper body and vigorous foot movements stomping to the beat. It derives from Irish folk dance. In America it has also been infused with African and Caribbean rhythms.

Since she is a Virginian I should think she could easily claim this as part of her heritage.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
22. Ya beat me to it!!!
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:11 PM
Jul 2020

In fact, there were some references to it a few times by his staff, used in a joking manner.

OnDoutside

(19,956 posts)
46. Actually, he visited Moneygall as President and they have gas station
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:48 PM
Jul 2020

and eatery named Barack Obama Plaza. His cousin Henry Healy attended his 2012 inauguration.

a kennedy

(29,655 posts)
27. My favorite t-shirt of the Obama era was from a place in Ireland that said "O'Bama".
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:16 PM
Jul 2020

Have two of them......and loved em. ☘️ ☘️ ☘️

Tanuki

(14,918 posts)
37. President Obama actually did have Irish ancestors
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:28 PM
Jul 2020

on his mother's side.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/rediscovering-obamas-irish-roots/amp

..."In the tiny village of Moneygall, on the border of Offaly and Tipperary, the Kearney family turned to shoemaking. By the arrival of the Great Famine, they’d joined millions of fellow-citizens who were hungry for a restart. When, in 1850, the Kearney family learned that a relative in America had bequeathed them a parcel of land, Falmouth Kearney, then nineteen years old, set out from his twelve-and-a-half-foot-wide house for Liverpool. There, he boarded a New York-bound coffin ship, so named for the high mortality rate among passengers. From New York, Kearney, an intense-looking man with a pressed-down mat of dark hair, made his way to Ohio, and married an Ohio woman named Charlotte Holloway. They had children and resettled, eventually, in Indiana, where Kearney worked as a farmer. Their youngest daughter had children of her own, and those children had children, and those children had children. One of the little Irish babies was Barack Obama."....(more at link)

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
55. Black Irish has nothing to do with skin color
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:00 PM
Jul 2020

It has to do with foreign invaders in Irish history (think: Vikings and the Normans). There’s an (erroneous) theory that it had to do with darker complexioned Spaniards who settled there after the Armada broke apart. It’s a popular thought, but the term Black Irish predates it by 400-500 years.

cally

(21,593 posts)
65. I thought it was from the indigenous peoples
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:37 PM
Jul 2020

Most of whom died in one of the various invasions but the original inhabitants? May have been darker

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
69. It has to do with how the invaders identified
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:50 PM
Jul 2020

The Vikings called themselves “the dark” as one of those “Instill fear in the people you’re invading” sort of ways. That ended up translating into “dark foreigners/invaders.” The invaders who remained ended up being called the Black once it all filtered into Gaelic.

Today’s surname for dark invader? O’Doyle.

It’s kind of hilarious.

You’re right about skin tone. Recent DNA research suggests that Stone Age Irish May have been more Spanish-looking. But then the Celts arrived, and now we’re a bunch of pasty folk.

But the term didn’t derive from that. The Vikings called themselves Black more or less.

DFW

(54,365 posts)
24. Anyone as good as she is
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:14 PM
Jul 2020

...quite simply deserves recognition for being as good as she is.

I’m thrilled that she has been, and by Riverdance, no less!

Jimvanhise

(301 posts)
26. A made up term
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:14 PM
Jul 2020

There is no such thing as "cultural appropriation." America has long labeled itself a melting pot where many cultures merge and overlap. Suddenly being influenced by another culture is wrong? They should just STFU.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
40. Yes.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:34 PM
Jul 2020

If we push activity against “cultural appropriation” to it’s limit, we will starve to death. Our commonplace food is pulled from and influenced by many cultures. I absolutely love Cuban sandwiches and Hispanic soft drinks, I love all types of Italian food. None of my genetics is Cuban or Italian.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
28. Taking too far.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:17 PM
Jul 2020

This whole "cultural appropriation" thing is getting to be ridiculous. Can I go to a Chinese restaurant? Can I take Spanish classes at night school? Can I celebrate St. Patrick's day?

Why do some people on the left make it so easy for right wingers to mock us? Can't we be sensible about these things?

JI7

(89,247 posts)
30. it's not people on the left. It's some unknown posters on social media
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:19 PM
Jul 2020

and then right wingers use that to claim they are victims and start abusing random minorities .

the internet is full of white bitterness and resentment.
that's what trump's support is all about.

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
59. It is definitely on the Left
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:06 PM
Jul 2020

One of our silly-assed things. If a white woman posted herself doing traditional Africa dances, I promise you Twitter would come for her. I’ve seen it a thousand times. It’s not “some random people.” It’s a whole toxic ideology that invariably ends up infecting every unrelated hobby or interest you can think of.

Our side isn’t perfect. We have toxic parts of our ideology, and the appropriation bullshit is one of them. It’s meant to separate and divide. I don’t subscribe to it.

NBachers

(17,107 posts)
71. While we're on the subject of Cultural Appropriation, could we PLEASE stamp out "Virtue Signaling??"
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:55 PM
Jul 2020

Another pseudo-leftist dweebo term used to throw condemnation acid at people for ridiculous reasons.

NBachers

(17,107 posts)
76. Virtue signaling complaints about cultural appropriation being virtue signaling is virtue signaling.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:09 PM
Jul 2020

How far do you want to take this?

JI7

(89,247 posts)
79. I look at each case. cultural appropriation was first used to show
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:14 PM
Jul 2020

people who were racist then turning around and using that culture for profit.

But someone who just enjoys something should be ok for everyone.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
127. Which in fact, illustrates the absurdity of both concepts.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:18 PM
Jul 2020

Thankfully, absurdities can inherently be taken to a much, much further degree than most people allow for.

Celerity

(43,333 posts)
100. virtue signalling is not necessarily a thing only germane to the 'left' (and RW weaponised)
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 02:52 AM
Jul 2020
Beware of Virtue Signaling in Brand Communications About COVID-19

https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/beware-of-virtue-signaling-in-brand-communications-about-covid-19/574168/

Like everyone else, marketing and communication professionals have had a challenging few weeks. As the pandemic expands, marketers and customer experience professionals have done their best to keep up with, and bridge swiftly shifting consumer and brand needs.

We rapidly transitioned from a period when brands debated if they should communicate about COVID-19 to now, with brands tripping over each other to broadcast their coronavirus email messages to customers. If your inbox is like mine, you received almost no brand emails about the virus before a week ago, but in the past week, the volume has exploded. Brands seemed to go from COVID-19 denial to COVID-19 FOMO in a matter of days.

On Friday, I received more than two dozen brand emails about COVID-19. The problem is that few of these messages took a customer-centric approach; instead, the race to email consumers reflects a growing sense of brand virtue signaling, or outright desperation for business. Consider what customers need and want to hear from your organization to best help your brand while dodging potential risks.

Avoid Virtue Signaling

Virtue signaling is when your brand conspicuously expresses its values without actually taking actions to live by those values. Today, it's not enough to tell consumers that you're aware of, and reacting to, the pandemic - everybody is. We also don't need to know that your brand is keeping your employees safe - we hope that's business as usual. Finally, no one needs to hear how your brand is striving to continue its operations uninterrupted - it would be real news worth sharing if you weren't. If that's all your brand has to report to customers, then you don't need a special COVID-19-themed brand communication at this time.

For example, my mortgage company, with whom I have a completely digital relationship, felt it needed to email me "An important message" simply to say, "The health and safety of our customers and team members is - as always - the most important thing to us." How does this company, which merely processes my auto-payments once a month, have any impact on my physical health? And why would it be necessary for any organization to state it cares about the health of its team members? Put that on the list of the many things I assume is true of every brand, and thus, need not be said, such as that it follows laws and that its CEO puts pants on one leg at a time.

snip

misanthrope

(7,411 posts)
103. I encounter right-wing virtue signaling all the time
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 04:26 AM
Jul 2020

Mostly when I hear them talking about Chik-fil-A.

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
77. It doesn't take
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:12 PM
Jul 2020

doing African dances....

I saw a woman on Twitter the other day, can't remember exactly who. Anyway, she was apologizing for having worn cornrows when she was in high school. I'm pretty sure she was close to 30 now, so this was 10-15 years ago.

That's nuts. I knew lots of white girls who worn cornrows at some point and nobody got hurt. I studied martial arts for years, I suppose that's not cool either.

JI7

(89,247 posts)
89. Who was she apologizing to ? And did she have the cornrows because she actually liked the style
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 12:13 AM
Jul 2020

did she have a history of being offensive to black people ?

JI7

(89,247 posts)
107. that doesn't really seem like a big deal. Sometimes it's just a white person realizing history
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 07:14 AM
Jul 2020

behind some of the things they did . Their intentions in doing it was not bad but they learn more about it. I think people make a bigger thing out of these things they it should be.

It's not like there were a bunch of calls for her to be fired from whatever she does.

betsuni

(25,472 posts)
102. I wonder if anyone remembers the 1979 movie "10" -- Bo Derek had cornrows.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 03:50 AM
Jul 2020

It became popular and as far as I remember nobody (white) knew where it came from, they thought it was some stylist's idea. Like Diane Keaton in "Annie Hall" wearing men's clothes, fashion. Also, "10" was the first movie where Bo had an 80s-style lifting-wights-work-out body.

BumRushDaShow

(128,896 posts)
108. That caused a stir
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 09:47 AM
Jul 2020

But I think more because the hair style had been denigrated for years by "society" and resulted in many schools banning black students from wearing it, like what continues to happen with wearing dreads or twist styles today or afros in the past, where "Karens" will be sure to enforce it -



And then Bo Derek appears... and it somehow "legitimizes" it.

JI7

(89,247 posts)
137. And this is an example of what Cultural Appropriation was about
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 05:47 AM
Jul 2020

It wasn't about other people can't do or enjoy this or that.

But it was about pointing out the racism in society . The double standard.


OnDoutside

(19,956 posts)
130. Well said. As I posted elsewhere, Morgan has been fantastically well received in Ireland, people
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:30 PM
Jul 2020

were hugely impressed by her talent. Shame on the BBC for making something out of nothing...they didn't even put forward who was supposed to be saying it was cultural appropriation.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
36. Very thoughtful young woman.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:28 PM
Jul 2020

I really love the point that she made about the difference between appropriation and appreciation. It is possible for a person from outside a culture to appreciate that culture, I believe that should be encouraged.

misanthrope

(7,411 posts)
45. An inconvenient anthropological fact
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:44 PM
Jul 2020

Culture is humanity's chief tool of adaptation and is created to be shared.

ismnotwasm

(41,976 posts)
83. However
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:40 PM
Jul 2020

When ones culture has been used, marketed, profited off of without credit, denigrated, Used as constant humor punchlines (when only insiders are allowed to “get” the joke) had very serious attempt(s) at being destroyed entirely,

I think there is a way to honoring and there is The usual bullshit, never ending appropriation

Cha

(297,161 posts)
56. Brilliant! I Love This! I saw Irish Dancing in The Maritime Islands, Canada
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:03 PM
Jul 2020

and came back and took classes at the YMCA for awhile!

Morgan Bullock is Spectacular.. I really enjoyed this.. Mahalo, Takket!

Rt!


panader0

(25,816 posts)
57. I texted about this my daughter who lives in Richmond.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:05 PM
Jul 2020

She loved Morgan and said she appears all over Richmond.

Mosby

(16,304 posts)
116. That was interesting
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 11:06 AM
Jul 2020

The musicians sort of creeped me out though.

I have never heard Gaelic out loud, it sounds sort of slavic. The melody and changes were quite unique.

Mosby

(16,304 posts)
118. She has a beautiful voice.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 11:11 AM
Jul 2020

And really knows how to use it.

ETA look how far she is standing away from the mic, she has a super strong voice.

rwsanders

(2,596 posts)
67. How dare trolls decide for another culture who can and can't be included.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 09:39 PM
Jul 2020

From what I have heard and read, the Irish are very welcoming and inclusive.

StarryNite

(9,444 posts)
80. She's amazing!
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:22 PM
Jul 2020

So smart, so talented. Damn COVID gets in the way of so much. Hopefully she will get to dance with Riverdance at some point in the not too distant future.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
82. I seem to remember a show of Riverdance in China and there was a little girl in the audience
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:31 PM
Jul 2020

who was dancing in the aisle along with the music. Irish music and dance is loved by all the people of the earth.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
85. The idea of Culture appropriation is total bullshit.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 11:51 PM
Jul 2020

Cultures are affected by other they meet and often grow from it. I cooked a very French meal tonight. Of course since I have french ancestry I get a pass?

And if you ate up about cultural Appropriation stop listening to and any 60s rock which was really updated Blues.

The republicans are in the position they are because they did not reject the far right racist elements many of them invited into the party.

Let’s not make the same mistake and let the crazy left drive our ship.

If any person is good at Irish Dancing, African music or Korean fighting good for them. Who cares about their ancestors.

Wolf Frankula

(3,600 posts)
91. Cultural Appropriation is a bullshit stick
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 12:54 AM
Jul 2020

used by BOCS to beat up on guilty white liberals and guilty white liberals to beat up on themselves. Should I tell the Gurkhas not to wear berets? Txapela is a Basque hat. I have Basque ancestry, they don't.

Wolf

betsuni

(25,472 posts)
86. Looks similar to American tap dancing.
Sat Jul 18, 2020, 11:55 PM
Jul 2020

I don't know about Irish dance, but she seems to add unique techniques. Time for a tap dance-Irish dance fusion (add arms). Dance is international.

Who's going to tell non-European ancestry ballet dancers they're culturally appropriating? Nobody.

The Nicholas Brothers. Everybody makes a big deal over Fred Astaire, but I've never been that impressed. THIS is impressive:


betsuni

(25,472 posts)
105. I love that they had no formal training.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 06:55 AM
Jul 2020

I spent years and years in ballet classes and eventually had all the creativity and joy of dancing sucked out of me, just as regular school sucked all the creativity out of me. I didn't have a strong enough personality to resist.

The first time I saw break dancing was in the early eighties' movie "Flashdance." Fabulous! No formal training and incredible dancing. Same as graffiti. Art without the boring expensive classes.

cabot

(724 posts)
95. Reminds me of the white girl who wore a qipao to prom
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 01:40 AM
Jul 2020

She was criticized for "cultural appropriation." Twitter went after her. However, people in China didn't have a problem with it.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4184700/prom-chinese-dress-cultural-appropriation/


You wouldn’t be blamed for thinking that with all the talk of cultural appropriation these days, most people would stick to neutral clothing with no hint of ethnic origin. But that wasn’t the case for one teen in Salt Lake City, Utah, who wore a Chinese qipao (or cheongsam) — a long, tight-fitting dress with a high slit that’s made of Chinoiserie fabric — to her prom.

Keziah Daum, a high school senior, says she was drawn to the dress, which she found in a vintage store, because of its modesty and uniqueness.

peggysue2

(10,828 posts)
96. Great story
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 02:18 AM
Jul 2020

She's a fantastic dancer. The Riverdance Company showed great good sense in tapping an enormous new talent.

Go Irish or go home!

Raine

(30,540 posts)
101. Cultural "appropriation" is stupid no matter what side it comes from 👎
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 02:53 AM
Jul 2020

and I've heard it used by a a variety of people on all sides.

The_REAL_Ecumenist

(719 posts)
106. Does ANYONE know how STUPID this is to accuse her of cultural appropriation when, well JAZZ, ROCK,
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 07:06 AM
Jul 2020

R&B, COUNTRY MUSIC; TANNING, HIPHOP, BANJOS, BBQ, Cotton Gin, surgically enhanced SKIN COLOR, FULL LIPS, AFRICAN BEHINDS; our twists, Locs, cornrows & braids & DON'T GET ME STARTED about our Kinky curly hair, & Lord only knows how many thousands of things have been hijacked by people too eager to get in front of things thought Trendy, Exotic, etc1 While I'm addressing how incredibly common for the average A.A. have AT LEAST 1 IRISH/SCOTTISH GGParent.Why shouldn't she be allowed to dance what is part of her direct bloodline? SUCH a STUPID thing to snot & sneeze over when there's CoV19, 140k+ dead & dying AMERICANS & counting, Russian bounties on the heads of AMERICAN troops, AIDS, RACIAL INJUSTICE, POLICE BRUTALITY, an economy that's on financial ECMO, 40 million of us W/O insurance in the middle of a PHUQQING PANDEMIC?!!! Cuz DAMN, JUST DAMN!!

misanthrope

(7,411 posts)
129. Jazz is a perfect explanation of how problematic these things can be
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:29 PM
Jul 2020

Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2020, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)

It was a complete product of place and time. American Creoles in New Orleans (the Paris of the New World) were schooled in European Classical music traditions, instrumentation, music theory, etc. That, of course, means Creoles of Color -- who identified with their European ancestry -- followed suit.

That was also influenced by European musical traditions filtered through Caribbean cultures that could be found in New Orleans as well. It is habanera components, the "Spanish tinge" Jelly Roll Morton referenced, abundant in the introduction to Louis Armstrong's 1929 version of "St. Louis Blues."

After the Civil War and Reconstruction, a more deeply and stringently segregated society changed Creoles of Color from their earlier and loftier social class into being "colored," on a scale with the blue-collar descendants of slaves. Those purely African Americans had developed musical traditions from field and work songs, gospel, blues and older African melodic and rhythmic influences. When that interplayed with the European training Creoles knew, infused with the new ragtime syncopation moving up and down the Mississippi River, jazz was the result.

The music form is a melange of cultural influences, born from the gumbo of humanity found in the New World.

The_REAL_Ecumenist

(719 posts)
134. IF you come from a Black family who has been here in the NEW WORLD for at least 100 years...
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 07:06 PM
Jul 2020

(hint: The African part of my blood line has been here for AT LEAST 200 years). There are NO PURE African Americans UNLESS they've very recently emigrated from Africa, as in STRAIGHT from Africa & even then, if they come from a country that was colonised by a non-African people, THEY ARE NOT PURE...PERIOD! The ONLY black folks I've EVER known to test out 100% African are recent emigres &/or students once they've had a DNA test & while I'm at it, ALOT of people who believe they're "pure" white, are in for QUITE a shock when upon receiving their DNA analysis, find that they're more than 40% SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN! Many light skinned black folks disappeared into white society in the years following Reconstruction AND the implementation of jim crow laws because it would be easier to live their lives. I have this FACT in my own family & in fact, a fairly famous TX Baseball Pro player is a cousin of mine 2x, 1 by marriage & 1x by blood. His father, who looks EXACTLY like my grandmother, even has the same surname as grammy's maiden name though the spelling is slightly different but identifies as white. Trust me, if you see a photo of the both of them, it's CLEAR they're mixed & quite dark; (Grammy's maiden name was McGowan however, if you look at the family page, you'll find at least a dozen different spellings as some change but it's CLEARLY the same family. We share Irish GGGrandfather who emigrated to TX from County Clare Eire. So, there's that...

Now, I have to humbly though STRONGLY disagree with you regarding the origin of JAZZ because it DIDN'T come into being as a result of European Musical theory but can directly be traced to the Dionysian, half, quarter & countermelodic notes, riffs, polyrhythmic musical traditions of West Africa. Jazz was BORN in the AFRICAN AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOODS of New Orleans & is known for it's utilisation of being performed differently each time, based on the interpretation, mood, accompaniment, of interaction and collaboration, (ever heard of "Call & Response"?), as well as creditting less value on the composer's contribution,should there be one & more on the performer & what they have to add & improvise.

European Music theory, aka, "classical music" is characterised by fairly strict adherence to the musical score, without any openness to interpretation, improvisation & accompaniment. The goal of European musician is to play the composition EXACTLY as it was written, completely & diametrically opposed to most African musical theory, certainly 100% different from "Classical" Music. Jazz was thought of as vulgar, "jungle music", etc simply because it arose out of what whites thought of the lowest & most savage of Americas, AKA black folks.

So, as I posited earlier & stand behind, JAZZ, BLUES, RHYTHM & BLUES, ROCK, SOUL, GOSPEL, ETC come from US, black folks. The very idea that somehow Jazz came from Europe makes less than ZERO sense due to where it BEGAN, how it evolved, what people & cultures it grew out of, etc.

misanthrope

(7,411 posts)
136. I'm thoroughly familiar with "call and response"
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 11:04 PM
Jul 2020

It comes from the African American tradition of the Southern U.S. and was present in both work songs and gospel. So were the slurring/bending of notes that are related to microtonalities.

You can disavow the influence of European musical traditions all you want but all the older jazz musicians I know from up and down the Gulf Coast, most of all in New Orleans, tell the story I just relayed above. The notation, the theory, the instrumentation is derived from European music. Those were brought into the African American neighborhoods courtesy of Creoles of Color.

Trumpets, saxophones, clarinets, trombones, pianos, they were all of European origin. It was when they were mixed with African poly-rhythms, African American melodic invention and Ragtime's syncopation that jazz emerged.

Jazz is polyglot. I sat at a dinner table with Delfeayo Marsalis less than a year ago talking about this very subject. He and his family are far from the only jazz musicians steeped in its history who would say the same.

Jazz wasn't disavowed solely by whites either. In proper African American circles, especially as it involved the church, it was rebuked as "the devil's music."

As far as focusing on my use of the word "pure," that was in relation to New Orleans social structure, where Creoles of Color occupied a place different than that of other African Americans. That unique structure didn't exist beyond a small stretch of the Gulf Coast roughly from Mobile, Alabama westward to the other side of New Orleans. Some Creoles of Color were so obsessed with those bloodlines that they would only allow their kids (when they could help it) to marry into other Creole families from the region.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
111. What a wonderful story, and a WONDERFUL woman
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 10:19 AM
Jul 2020

God that was moving. She makes me proud to share being in the human race with her.

P.S. And a shout out also to Riverdance for step dancing up and doing the right and righteous thing.

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
113. That's not Irish Dancing.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 10:30 AM
Jul 2020

She’s not wearing a curly ginger wig and a glittery dress with shamrocks and a Celtic cross on it!

Unfortunately, that’s the image of Irish Dancing many dance schools promote.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
123. My personal opinion over supposed "cultural appropriation" by anyone for any reason
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 04:14 PM
Jul 2020

be it music, literature, dance or art is that it is and always has been an absurd argument to make.

OnDoutside

(19,956 posts)
128. Morgan was HUGELY well received in Ireland. I suspect anyone making aspersions to the contrary is
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:26 PM
Jul 2020

just plain racist. My own nephew is half Irish, half Filipino and adores Irish Dancing. He's doing great in the various State Feis competitions. I remember there was uproar by the old stick in mud Gaelgoirs when Riverdance first burst on the scene, because it didn't stick to the old rigid dance sequence, but stuff them.

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
132. "Cultural appropriation" is so damn stupid.
Sun Jul 19, 2020, 05:47 PM
Jul 2020

I believe in the adage "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

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