Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Nevilledog

(50,986 posts)
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 05:34 PM Jul 2020

What to Do If You're Kidnapped by Federal Officers While Protesting

https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2020/07/20/28659148/what-to-do-if-youre-kidnapped-by-federal-officers-while-protesting

Well, I guess this is the world we’re living in now: Security forces loyal to the national regime have invaded a northwestern province to attack and kidnap political dissidents. By now we’ve all seen the video of Army goons grabbing Portland protestors off the street and throwing them into unmarked vans; shooting at a group of moms; and beating a veteran and breaking his hand for standing in the street.

Coverage of what happened in Portland last night is here, and according to Donald’s acting deputy secretary of Homeland Security, Ken Cuccinelli, what’s happening in our town could be extended to other cities soon.

So how should protestors respond, and how can you mitigate the risk of attack and abduction? Well, fortunately, there are some handy guides to keeping yourself safe in such situations, courtesy of our friends, the federal government.

(Note that none of this is legal advice, but actual legal advice is available from the National Lawyers Guild here.)

The U.S. Department of State’s Overseas Security Advisory Council has a handy guide to preventing abduction by militant forces, and their advice seems pretty sound: Always tell a trusted contact where you’re going, where you’re planning to be, and when you plan to return. Keep a low profile. Avoid traveling repeatedly on the same route.

*snip*
12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

no_hypocrisy

(46,010 posts)
1. What happens if you're kidnapped?
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 05:36 PM
Jul 2020

Where do they take you?

Do you have the right to keep silent? Speak to your lawyer? How soon can you be in front of a judge? What about bail? Where are you kept in custody?

Nevilledog

(50,986 posts)
2. Best advice is to not talk to them at all beyond requesting a lawyer.
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 05:42 PM
Jul 2020

Only story I've seen of someone released was that they were detained at the Federal courthouse.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
11. reports have been that people have been released after a few minutes of driving
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 06:42 PM
Jul 2020

Demanding, in a firm voice, to talk to a lawyer seems to work, since the kidnappers have not identified as law enforcement, and what they are doing is illegal. Intimidating, but not legal.

Thing is, I worry about escalation, with people disappearing for good, because where we are right now is where other countries have been, at the beginning.
Some years ago it was reported that Chicago police were arresting people and taking them to an obscure building, tossing them in cells, not entering them into the official arrest reports, technically totally off the books.
Eventually this was exposed, but until it was, family were looking for their relatives at the official police stations, which of course had no records.

I no longer feel like laffing at a moronic trump. I feel we have to be intensely watchful of his handlers, who are the real villains of the moment.

I no longer think "they wouldn't dare......"
I no longer think "it won't get that bad"

Because it will.
Because we are here:

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism:
The list includes fraudulent elections, which is how we got trump in the first place.


Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws.
The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.

There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.


Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Fraudulent Elections

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html


appalachiablue

(41,102 posts)
3. More from the piece:
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 05:43 PM
Jul 2020

- Always tell a trusted contact where you’re going, where you’re planning to be, and when you plan to return. Keep a low profile. Avoid traveling repeatedly on the same route.

- “Kidnappers generally keep victims under surveillance for substantial periods of time,” writes the Department of State’s guide. “Unpredictability is one of your best weapons.”

- If you are grabbed, “while first being taken captive, if feasible, scream and move about to draw attention to yourself,” OSAC advises. In addition,

- “leave evidence of your presence in each location. Examples include strands of hair, fingerprints, blood, bits of fingernails, etc.” This can be useful to people when trying to track where you've been taken; or it could just fuck up the Army's deposit on their Enterprise rental car.

- You should also “make a mental note of all movements, including time in transit, direction, distances, speeds, landmarks along the way, special odors, and distinctive sounds like bells, construction, voices, etc.”

- Once in custody, you may be presented with an opportunity to gather valuable intelligence on your captors. The FBI has a guide to what they call “elicitation” — that is, collecting information that is not readily available through “the strategic use of conversation.”

SWBTATTReg

(22,059 posts)
10. Really. Never thought that we would have to educate ourselves to this possibility (kind of like
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 06:19 PM
Jul 2020

Nixon era almost but definitely worse today)...

marybourg

(12,584 posts)
6. Everyone who protests or engages in other political activities
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 05:47 PM
Jul 2020

should read the relevant parts of the National Lawyers Guild pamphlet. You can peruse it on line here:

https://www.nlg.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/kyrpamphlet-Eng-May-2015-FINAL.pdf

or send away for pocket copies.

And keep the ACLU’s phone # in your pocket.

TomSlick

(11,086 posts)
12. Say two things and two things only - over an over again.
Mon Jul 20, 2020, 09:41 PM
Jul 2020

(1) My name is ______.

(2) I demand to speak with an attorney.

Say nothing else unless you are in need of medical care. If you are in need of medical care, say that early and often.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What to Do If You're Kidn...