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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am a white non-college male, I do not support Trump, however I just learned this.
Over the years I lost contact with many of my friends, We were a tight knit group growing up. We were all non college, blue collar workers. We all had pretty much the same beliefs. Very down to earth common sense people.
I just talked to an old friend who I hadn't talked to in a while and I found out he turned into a Trump nut. He then informed of all my friends who love Trump. I cannot fucking believe it. Many of my friends I grew up with are part of Trumps base. Trumps base is white non college people. What strange power Trump has over people like my friends is shocking. It's like a fucking disease.
The good news is not all of the friends I grew up with have lost their minds. Way too many have and I will never understand it.
Like with the Ex-friend I just talked to, all Trump voters make up excuses in order to support Trump. The virus is not Trumps fault. Trump did not try to cover up the pandemic, he got bad advise, Blah, Blah, Blah.
We have to put an end to this Trump madness this November.
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enough
(13,256 posts)shockey80
(4,379 posts)
barbtries
(28,787 posts)brainwashed by right wing media. i doubt many of them have benefited from "trump's" economy.
karynnj
(59,501 posts)have always been right on various issues and that any lack of success they have had was because of unfair advantages given to women and minorities and the derision they have experienced from the liberal elite.
This is not new. It was latent before Limbaugh. For many who came of age in 1970s, for the first time, being white and male was not sufficient to get a good job. At a different level, it also meant that being white, male and college educated did not lead to a middle management job. Suddenly, for the first time minorities and women had a shot at many jobs they never could have gotten before. It also was a time of change, where a much larger percent of families had 2 breadwinners. One impact of this was that the cost of a house in a middle class neighborhood greatly increased. For the generation where many already owned homes, this was a bonanza when they downsized. For younger people, it meant it was harder to have what their parents did.
In addition to Reagan being the political hero of many coming of age in 1980, these factors were even more pronounced and Limbaugh and others were there to place the blame. To many, after years of this poisoning, they were willing to see a brilliant, Harvard law constitutional scholar, who taught at the University of Chicago and his Harvard Law graduate wife as unqualified to be in the white house. Then to add insult to injury, they thought an immoral, incompetent reality show conman, who had 5 bankruptcies and whose third wife was a former soft core porn model was a perfect president.
irisblue
(32,965 posts)
Moostache
(9,895 posts)They kept lowering the bar on expectations and raising their tolerance of tribalism and "It's-OK-I-You're-A-Republican" (IOIYAR) justifications...
Reagan begat Bush I...in fairness, Reagan really didn't know much of anything from '86 on but he started it all and his policies were already destroying things at an accelerated clip by then...
Bush I begat Bush II...Shrub was a total disaster in every sense, I thought to NEVER be surpassed..
McCain unleashed Palin and the stupidity meter broke...
Trump saw all of this - the racism, the lack of empathy, the greed - and he simply said "Oh yeah? Hold my beer..."
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)
griffi94
(3,733 posts)And he openly insults the people and groups they hate. And he tells them that none of their problems are their own fault.
moose65
(3,166 posts)I am a college-educated white male, and I too have seen many of my high school friends (who are not college-educated) jump onto the Trump train. I think it boils down to the fact that Trump IS an asshole, and he insults people and calls them out by name, and he doesn't try to sugarcoat what he says like other politicians do. They love him BECAUSE he is so uncouth and rude. It boggles the mind.
So, I understand that, I guess. What I will NEVER understand is why do many people who claim to be religious love Trump so much? That one REALLY boggles the mind. Trump is the least religious person I have ever encountered in my life. Normally, he would be the kind of person they would hate (IF he were a Democrat or Independent). A big mouthed, amoral "Yankee" who runs his mouth too much. It makes my skin crawl to see how much they LOVE Trump. I will never understand that aspect of his "appeal."
He kinda shares that with Reagan, who was also a divorced man who never went to church. I don't get it.
JI7
(89,246 posts)among the different groups in this country and they are largely Christian.
So why are white evangelicals never able to get along with them ? it's because most of those white evangelicals are just white supremacists . They will make a big thing out of religion but all of these groups showed what they were really about with their support of Trump .
Just like the NRA was always about arming white people to use against minorities and never about defending from the govt.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,171 posts)"Prosperity Gospel" bullshit, which is very un-Christ-like.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,832 posts)
randr
(12,409 posts)
madaboutharry
(40,204 posts)Do you have any thoughts on why Trump has this obvious weird power over this segment of the population?
shockey80
(4,379 posts)Most of my friends who support Trump had a good life. They had pretty good jobs, homes , raised a family. Like myself they took a lot of hard hits in life but recovered.
I think it come down to self education. I have always self educated. I am a history buff. I like to read. I need facts before I can believe in something.
I think many white non college people do not self educate, do not read enough, do not know history. In a way they are lazy. This leaves them wide open to propaganda. Following propaganda is easy, if it sounds good, go with it.
I think there are many factors involved.
jayschool2013
(2,312 posts)They are intellectually lazy. The irony, of course, is that most Republicans have convinced themselves that they are the only hard workers, that liberals — which of course includes ethnic and racial minorities — aren't working hard, aren't fighting through hard times, aren't deserving of any morsel of compassion or help.
The facts, of course, contradict them.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)
PurgedVoter
(2,216 posts)Simple Righteousness is the ability to stand on a hill and see clearly that you are a hero. Morally clear and justified. The ability to know that you are saved, pure, correct and justified.
In a world of moral ambiguity and complexity, so many things are easy if you have a simple answer. Abortion for example is a subject that has elusive ethics. No solid stance can be justified. If you can't handle the balancing act, you can either avoid the subject or drink the magic cool-aid and know that your stance is correct. Then you can stand firm until the issue effects you directly. Then you can secretly deal with the real issues and go back to your perch knowing that it was different for you, but for everyone else it is the same.
Fear the simple answer. Fear it for multiple reasons. You will not persuade people by giving them the truth. The simple answer is much more persuasive. Eventually you will be worn down with explaining to folk incapable of understanding until it effects them. The desire for simple answers by those around you will wear the deep thinking down. The success of idiots that shout the simple answers will wear you down. Unless you are motivated by deep ideas and compassion it is hard to resist the simple answer.
The simple answer is powered by the desire to be virtuous without having made the sacrifices that virtue requires. It's draw is constant and it will lead you to a position of shouted virtue without any evidence of truth.
You have heard the term, "conservative ethics" bandied by those with no ethics all of your life. Yet, no one, can name a real ethic that is held by conservatives. Great evils yes, ethics, not one.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,489 posts)"The simple answer is powered by the desire to be virtuous without having made the sacrifices that virtue requires."
KY........
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)shockey80
(4,379 posts)This scares the hell out of me because these friends always had good common sense. They recognized bullshit when they seen it. I am at a loss to explain this. Like I said , it's like a disease.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)were happy to be Democrats while unions created well-paying jobs with great benefits and security. Whatever feelings of superiority they might have been raised with were benignly pleasant, and the hostile bigotry of the right didn't appeal, because they didn't fear.
That security's mostly gone, replaced now with loss, not just of millions of those good jobs, but with fear, having lost the comfort of at least having some natural advantage in dealing with a harsh world.
And more. Their new harsh reality is that in both private lives and workplaces they're no longer needed as they were. They're being outcompeted by better educated women women and more and better educated men.
And the important roles these men were raised to fill as the purpose of their lives are greatly diminished or gone, along with the jobs that allowed them to provide well for families.
Anything at all ping in this? Because to me it doesn't take a degree in social psychology to see that for many men, especially but not only white, the great advances in equality over the past few decades have been very hurtful. Coming at the same time as disappearance of markets for their skills, it's just been way too much equality too fast, which for many unfortunates has been part of devastating hits to the middles of their lives.
And then of course there're the younger men growing up during a drastic drop in demand for husbands. Their futures were of course supposed to include family in their American dream homes.
Trump's just a particularly blatant trumpeter of the conservative backlash and opposition to galloping equality. The Republican Party's doubled down on white male supremacy in their determination to roll it back, purging their own party of elected women and choosing to steal elections in preference to integrating with many millions of minority conservatives. Of course that's drawing many resentful white men. And the dreadful losses of 2016 and subsequent RW government predation and abandonment have just increasingly worsened their predicaments.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)Most of my friends have done good in life. Pretty good jobs, homes, kids. They see something in Trump that is not true. Trump is a complete lie.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)don't exactly embrace change, and we've been having almost nothing but. A lot of trumpsters are downright wealthy, but still angry and resentful as hell, and they blame liberals/Democrats for everything. And many on the left do also. That's the zeitgeist of this unfortunately prolonged period of transition from what was to...what?
What can and should be of course, but being inspired and excited by the great possibilities is not for those who are too busy trying to reverse course to look.
blm
(113,041 posts)A Bullshitter. A Bullshit artist.
RockRaven
(14,958 posts)I don't know how best to combat it. It is madness.
kimbutgar
(21,127 posts)But this guy has another friend who keeps trying to pull him back to mf45 saying Biden is worst. This poor guy goes back and forth. My husband talked to him one day when he went back to mf45 and almost lost it with him. They talked the next day and agreed their friendship was important than politics. One day he called looking for my husband who wasn’t home and I told him he’d call him back we ended up having this conversation About the origins of Cv and MF45. I got the feeling his Russia friendly friend who is a mf45 supporter was listening in and at times I felt the guy was giving him questions to ask him. This guy is so pliant I don’t really know if he’ll vote for Biden though in November. I suspect there’s a lot of swingy votes out there especially if this Russian disinformation stuff they are cooking up is effective in October for the surprise MF45’s cabal is planning.
walkingman
(7,593 posts)conspiracy theories, seemingly a hatred of liberals, some are openly racist, and some are even tying religion into it. I don't think it is a education thing or lack of. I think in many cases it is simply a resentment of the way many of their lives have turned out with not as much opportunity as they had expected and just general frustration. The thing that frustrates me is even when I try and tell them that the Democratic Party has traditionally supported working people and the very safety nets that they need now it doesn't seem to resonate? They literally continue to vote against their own interest?
Sadly it makes up a large segment of our population and I don't know what it will take to change things. In Texas it is awfully hard to find a rancher or rural person that doesn't despise progressive ideas - an example is the mockery of Austin and their progressive ideas. I really do wish they could get over it and start enjoying life without all of the hatred and unsophisticated approch to almost everything.
I say this as a rural retired Texan just a few miles out of Austin.
Peace and Love!!
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I am nowhere near Austin. I am a long way from any real stores (Target) or any UUs!
My high school was mostly blue collar refinery workers' kids. They used to have strong unions and were Democrats, but that is all gone. They kicked me out of a FB group after I told them they were supporting a tyrant with dementia. I reminded them that the original antifascists were OUR DADDIES. ALL of them were drafted to fight Hitler. I only communicate with a couple of my girlfriends from high school that agree with me.
When I was in high school, I did not have dates. My studious girlfriends didn't have dates either. That's the way it was. I knew there was another world out there after high school called college. I loved school and my folks insisted on sending me to college. At least I didn't have any brothers for my parents to favor instead, but my grandmother acted like my one male cousin, who is your average farm boy, raised in the metropolis of Centerville (!!!)/sarcasm was gonna go to A&M and be a doctor or something. He flunked out real quickly, while my sister and I both went to college. I went to grad school as well. Earned 3 degrees.
Such a toxic mix of hate with many angles. Sexism, racism, hating everybody who isn't a rich white male(and I include the women who are trumpers). That doesn't fly any more in the larger society. Then they act shocked when they are socially rejected.
walkingman
(7,593 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I made myself scarce here before the 2016 election.
JenniferJuniper
(4,510 posts)racists. All of them.
And when I called out one (a friend of my sister's) and said she sounds like a racist, she screamed, "I'm not racist! I'm just prejudiced!"
Response to JenniferJuniper (Reply #11)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bradshaw3
(7,508 posts)Racism of course plays a big role but when these people start watching Faux News all day or listening to the radio or going on RW sites, the whole point is to get them agitated on a constant basis - like with the slot machines at a casino it provokes an unconscious response in the brain - and to keep them coming back for more. As Ailes and Limbaugh showed, the result is more money for them and more power and money for the white economic elites.
Check out the doc "The Brainwashing of my Dad". The filmmaker documents how her father changed through intake of the RW propaganda, but then went back to his old self when the family took away those influences. He ended up voting for Obama. This isn't to say that all or even most of them would change with the same scenario or to absolve them of responsibility for their toxic views, but that we should look at the bigger picture of who mostly benefits from these RW lies, and not let them off the hook.
https://www.amazon.com/Brainwashing-My-Dad-Matthew-Modine/dp/B01C6AFDM6
moose65
(3,166 posts)It's not just that they get their news from Fox or Rush. It's that they're ADDICTED to it - they sit in front of Fox News every single night from 8 - 11 pm. And on Fox's evening shows, as you said, they always have the outrage meter turned up to 11.
One of my co-workers put it like this: in their minds, we are no longer just the political opposition. Now, they paint us as EVIL. And when you're fighting "evil," you can justify anything.
What about social media, though? I am starting to think that Facebook is actually dangerous. In the early days of Facebook, like back in 2008 or 2009, it was mostly people talking to their friends and sharing vacation pics and playing little games like SongPop and Words with Friends. Now, Facebook is mostly people sharing things from websites, and it's covered with memes of dubious origin. I can't tell you how many times I've done the "Hide All From..." on certain websites. It's overwhelming sometimes.
Bradshaw3
(7,508 posts)I think part of that is that in places like FB you mention or on sports sites I go to, the trumpistas have taken over and made everything about spewing their disinformation and hate. The other part of it is that they are so aggrieved (wrongly) and fired up all the time as you point out, that it is exhausting to those of us who use these sites for other purposes. But, we can't let them win so we have to keep doing non-violent actions and voting and maybe someday some of them will become true patriots.
hlthe2b
(102,218 posts)prior to the Gore-Bush* debacle election. I had dinner with her where I could not believe that in such a short time she'd flipped to support Bush. I told her of my own professional experience meeting and having to interview Cheney in between Congress and the Bush* campaign and how I could NEVER have anything but intense distrust and horror at that man (who I viewed as close to being singularly evil as anyone I'd met). But when she asked me to give one reason only for supporting Gore against Bush* I had no hesitation: Supreme Court.
I've never talked with her since. But every once in a while after the debacle that was Bush*-Cheney and now with Trump, I wonder if she still sticks with that turn and whether she regrets anything. 
qwlauren35
(6,147 posts)If I remember, Trump said "bring jobs back", "Go after China" and all kinds of horseshit that might appeal to people who think that Democrats don't care about them, but "only care about minorities".
Show them a few Lincoln Project ads. Especially the China one. Pick and choose the ones that show "broken promises" and "corruption". Not the ones that show protesters or anti-Confederate flag.
If nothing else, maybe they won't vote.
Freedomofspeech
(4,223 posts)I am the only one in the group with a college degree. They all married right after high school and several never worked outside their homes. They all DESPISE trump. Otherwise, I would not be friends with them.
They are all obviously bright women but in the mid sixties a lot of men felt their daughters did not need an education. I love and respect these women.
The majority of people in this area do not have degrees and the majority are trump worshipers (SW Pennsylvania).
grumpyduck
(6,232 posts)but from reading the above posts I suspect it may have something to do with relating to him.
Here's a bully who habitually lies, cheats, blames others, isn't doing his job, has no empathy, blah, blah, and is occupying the Oval Office. For all intent and purposes, he has legitimized all those behaviors in the minds of some of these people. So maybe they relate to him.
And then there are those who have a blind spot and can never accept that they made a mistake or that they were wrong -- about anything, not just politics. I've known some of those (even though I have no idea which side of the aisle they were on because we never talked politics), and they were sure a pain in the ass.
And then there are those who, like Cole said in The Sixth Sense, see what they want to see.
I have a long-time friend who's a conservative. Even though we never talk politics (I refuse to), I would love to sit down with him and have him explain, in a calm and objective manner, why he's a conservative right now and how he feels about 45. But I know it could never happen: I know him well enough to know that he would start going off on liberals within a minute and the conversation would go to hell right then and there.
So I will continue not having a clue.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)I’ve posted this before, but one of them recently lost her father-in-law to COVID-19 and she was back on Facebook the next day proclaiming that it’s all a hoax.
They won’t see reason, band together to egg one another on, and their numbers are growing.
The San Antonio mayor finally addressed all of the conspiracy theories the other night and I’m damn glad he talked about it. We need the nutcases out of the way so that a clear message about guidelines for surviving all of this get out and are not diminished by people spouting stupid shit.
Harker
(14,012 posts)not in college, and never were... that's me, too.
Attending college doesn't automatically make one smarter or more compassionate. Look at all the degree-holding republican't politicians...
It's about empathy, and about caring about true justice.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)The propaganda from the right wing is incessant. If they watch Fox News or OANN regularly, if they listen to right-wing radio, if their churches preach that loyalty to Trump is a tenet of the Christian faith, if they read viral e-mails forwarded from their right-wing friends, if they're on right-wing mailing lists, etc. etc. etc. they're bound to be affected. Propaganda works.
DENVERPOPS
(8,809 posts)The nations psychiatrists are starting to come around to the reality that Fox News, right wing radio have effectively brain washed all that only listen to those two groups. Much like Communist "re-education" camps.
A nation who has been through this exact same thing in history, would be Germany.
I seriously doubt that Germany would allow Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, etc etc etc to even exist in their Country.
Same for any citizen spouting the White Nationalist, or White Supremacy shit......
Mariana
(14,854 posts)They don't have to read/watch/listen to that crap. There are alternatives.
It's a little more complicated than that, of course. They've made their bullshit addictive really. When my parents come visit me I don't have cable so there's no Fox News Channel for my dad. I swear he goes into withdrawals - he gets tense and irritable and even depressed without it. I provide him with a radio so he can go listen to Limbaugh or one of his clones outside for awhile, and then he feels better because he's had his fix.
Ohioboy
(3,240 posts)They work real hard at all their excuse making. It blows my mind what they are willing to ignore to keep supporting him.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)They same asshole bosses they work for and curse and would fire them in a second are more valuable than Trump.
bucolic_frolic
(43,124 posts)They use him to justify their own lost hopes and fractured dreams. Trump was lucky. He made it. I could have made it too if only ....
H2O Man
(73,528 posts)A number of guys I went to high school with are members of the Trump cult. In many cases, it is not surprising. One recently posted on facebook that there is no evidence that George Floyd actually died -- that this has been a Democratic Party hoax to bring our country to its knees. What bothers me is not only that his vote counts as much as mine, but moreso that it counts more than the combined total of all those who are denied the right to vote by the republican party.
cp
(6,623 posts)Wondering if your old friends do not read and have never traveled?
Some cult45 I know do not even have one book in their house and do not read. (Reading helps with ability to think critically as well as connect emotionally to others.)
Nor have they traveled; I mean to another country with another language, not to Disney World. (Learning to meet other human beings who live, think, and eat differently. Becoming more open.)
I'm sure there are other things that predispose them to swallow propaganda. We're all susceptible, it's that some of us have a few tools to shine a light on bs and defy gaslighting.
Just a thought.
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)The best-ever propaganda tool is religion. The 15 thousand - seat mega churches are expert at it. A very good friend some 30 years ago moved to Atlanta (her husband, an investment banker, was transferred). They moved into a lovely home, and a couple of neighbours came over to introduce themselves and welcome my friend. The first question was "Where are you from?" (Toronto). The second question was "What church do you plan to attend?" (What? Do I dare tell them I'm not a church-goer?).
Many Americans, in my humble opinion, use their religion as a shield, as well as a "get out of jail" tool. If they attend church, and listen to their preacher talk politics from the pulpit (which should be a very decisive no-no), and all their friends and relatives do too, then they have been propagandized. No need to watch Fox, or listen to Limbaugh. As long as their so-called faith makes them seem righteous and above all others, they are content.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)They look like the people you knew, but when they open their mouth, you realize they've been taken over.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)It is a human condition, a cognitive problem, that sometimes spreads like wild fire. In many ways it is unexplainable. History shows us it always ends badly.
I believe education is the best vaccine against this disease. It is not a fluke most college educated people are against Trump and most non college educated are for him.
I am guessing, I believe college educated people continue to self educate after school, they read, they search for the truth. Non college people go to work and stop self educating, stop reading.
plimsoll
(1,668 posts)It's probably more accurate to say that the percentage of college educated people who do that is higher, and college educated people tend to associate with other college educated people so they get exposure to a different spectrum of information.
Non-college educated people tend to associate with other non-college educated people. The percentage of non-college educated people who are interested in a broader spectrum of information and ideas is declining, so they're not as exposed and that will only be getting worse.
But I think the key issue in both cases is who you associate with.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)llmart
(15,536 posts)Universities and colleges are usually where people meet many different kinds of people from all over the world. Through interactions with people different from them they learn to not see the "other" as being someone to fear.
JI7
(89,246 posts)
Jimbo S
(2,958 posts)The day after the 2016 election, I heard this on the radio (NPR, I believe): if a blue-collar working guy suddenly won the lottery, who would he want to emulate? Trump. He has the money, he has the women, he has the properties, he has the power. Hillary reminded them of the school librarian who would shush you back in the day.
Javaman
(62,517 posts)was suma cum laude of her graduating bachelor class at Iona Jesuit College.
she's a gigantic trump humper.
level of education plays no roll in who follows the orange asshole.
it's all about authoritarianism
my dad was a bastard to all us kids growing up, yet my very brilliant sister thought the sun rose and set by him. So there you go.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)I have known my friends for over 40 years, not really. I bet that happened back in 1930's, 1940's Germany. I bet many Germans were saying to their life long friends, what happened to you, why are you doing this?
I have always said, history is the great teacher.
Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)They all say it's because "they grew up".
They're wrong. They haven't grown. They've jumped onto the path of least resistance.
It's a lot easier to be a political dumb fuck than a thinker.
I find it impossible for me to see everything in black and white and lowest possible terms the way my old friends can.
blakstoneranger
(333 posts)Trump saw an opportunity, configured a narrative for it, and then exploited it. Trump has never, ever been like the non-educated whites who support him. Trump has been extremely wealthy and privileged his whole life. READ MARY TRUMP'S BOOK. Trump as a child, as a teen, as an adult would never be caught associating with the likes of his base. Out of all the pictures you've seen of trump at parties and functions, how many of them were with low income or middle income people. How many "blue collar" bars and parties have you seen him in? NONE!! But what he has done was figure out that his "Don King" like self-promotion tactics he has used throughout his life would work on blue collar people! THEY'RE MARKS! Notice how many of them are sitting in jail for committing crimes. These idiots who were motivated by trump's rhetoric and now they are in jail with trump no where to be found. And, as long as this shtick continues to work, he'll keep using it so.....THERE'S REALLY NOTHING TO FIGURE OUT!
Woodwizard
(841 posts)I did trade school in high school graduated went into the army took more trade courses welding, advanced mechanics. Got out learned computer aided design and computer machining in the 90's back in the beginning. I like working with my hands and creating.
I get trump supporters assuming I am like them because I get my hands dirty I have always been a progressive most of the people I meet and work with with similar interests are too.
I have very few contacts from growing up a few are trump nuts and a few are sane.
The republicans are very good at branding themselves as hard working Americans while us progressives are just soft and lazy.
Branding is everything and Democrats suck at it.
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,752 posts)is simply no other news sources besides Fox News and RW talk show gas bags. Unfortunately propaganda works, or the RW would not be doing it. Esp. if the people dont hear any other opposing point of view, and especially if those delivering the opposing point of view has been demonized.
I was surprised recently driving around central WI recently to find NPR was just not available. I thought NPR covered the entire state, but apparently it doesnt. All I could find was several religious stations and country music. There was one heavy metal channel
shockey80
(4,379 posts)
riversedge
(70,186 posts)invent excuses or merely parrot what trumps has said.
czarjak
(11,266 posts)The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)Where are all the new coal jobs. Where are all the new manufacturing jobs. Did we get the check from mexico yet. Is healthcare fixed yet.
sad so sad
SWBTATTReg
(22,112 posts)he/rump is literally an idiot and a moron and doesn't deserve one bit of support.
I've had several friends confess to me that this is what they now believe (rump the moron) and will no longer support the moron in chief.
I'll take the little wins, one bit at a time...you can't win an argument at every sitting, but at least you're there and listening respectively w/o judgment.
When they rant and rave, and I nod and listen respectively, I usually don't volunteer my opinion, but I've noticed that they ask me for my opinion, knowing in advance fully well what I think (trump the moron). They still want to listen to my opinion, a good thing compared to prior years. At least now they're asking and listening.
orleans
(34,048 posts)i'm sure it was disappointing to hear about this
might also explain part of the reason you were growing apart from them
shockey80
(4,379 posts)After thinking about it, my friends and I never really talked about politics all the years we hung out together. Something has changed them. It's weird.
Dan
(3,545 posts)And all along I have said to understand this period today, all one had to do is look at Germany in the 1930s.
But after reading most of the posts in this thread, I wonder (something I can’t answer) this:
As you look at your Trump supporting friends, former friends, family, etc., - what are their plans on living in this Country that in another twenty to twenty-five years, when being White is no longer the majority? How will they relate to a future when POC are the majority? How will they prepare their children for this new reality or do they have a plan that has not been shared on what they will do?
The Mouth
(3,148 posts)of some of his positions, we're fucked.
every time someone freaks out about the couple holding guns, or justifies graffiti, blocking roads or closing down businesses and tearing down statues, his base gets stronger.
The sheer loathing of him and his fascist accomplices makes lots of people BLIND to his appeal. Many people I admire have let their blind, raw hatred cloud their vision- he has a well financed, highly professional campaign and is speaking to the people that many on here hold in utter contempt. Show me someone who can't understand exactly how good Jared was with targeting his 2016 campaign and I'll show you someone doing more damage than good to getting rid of IQ45 in 202.
Never, never, never underestimate your opponent, or you deserve to lose.
pansypoo53219
(20,969 posts)fux gnewz everywhere like an evil pravda + hate radio. limbaugh is a cancer.
Response to shockey80 (Original post)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
JohnnyRingo
(18,624 posts)I'm in my 60s and many of my friends would drink kool aid and catch a ride to nirvana on the next comet if Trump told them to. These people rode to school on a regular size bus but something happened between then and now.
