Axios-Ipsos poll: The skeptics are growing

[Nevilledog]

https://www.axios.com/axios-ipsos-poll-gop-skeptics-growing-deaths-e6ad6be5-c78f-43bb-9230-c39a20c8beb5.html

A rising number of Americans — now nearly one in three — don't believe the virus' death toll is as high as the official count, despite surging new infections and hospitalizations, per this week's installment of the Axios-Ipsos Coronavirus Index.

Between the lines: Republicans, Fox News watchers and people who say they have no main source of news are driving this trend.

Why it matters: It shows President Trump's enduring influence on his base, even as Americans overall say they are increasingly dissatisfied with his handling of the virus and political support is shifting toward Joe Biden.

What they're saying: "We live in highly tribal and partisan times, and people are more likely to believe cues and signals from their political leaders than the scientists or the experts," says Cliff Young, president of Ipsos U.S. Public Affairs.

"And that's just the purest form of populism, the demonization of experts to further political ends. But to what end? Fantasy is meeting reality head-on right now."

"People can see the world around them, they know it's different, but they still can think that the media and politicos are using it to go after Trump."

*snip*

[ProfessorGAC]

1. I Hear It At The Golf Course

It's blindingly stupid, and they've got nothing but a hunch. A hunch that's wrong, of course.
It's far more likely we're undercounting.
And, it's to "make Trump look bad", which is about their feelings. (And, PINO doesn't need any help to look bad.). But, I thought they were the " fuck your feelings" crowd.

[zipplewrath]

4. Everywhere

They couch it in different ways, some leaning towards the "it's no worse than the flu" attitude and some just hedging their bets with stuff like "I think they're padding the numbers". Much of it is grounded in the difficulty in admitting that this idiot they put in office is the problem. And they never consider for a moment that in fact we don't know the actual extent of the problems. Until their loved one is in an ICU and they see how many other people are there, they'll never really admit how disastrously wrong they were about Trump.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. Spot On!

You're right about the other nonsense we hear as well.

[Blue_true]

17. Like the new one they came up with "It's everywhere".

Duhhhh, I never realized that “Pandemic” didn’t mean that the virus was widespread. Glad those pinheads got me straight.

[Thomas Hurt]

2. If it isn't personal or there aren't bodies stacked on the curb, people don't care.

The anonymous dead aren't really dead to them.

[Laelth]

3. This is utterly depressing.

That’s because it’s true. Many people would rather bury their heads in the sand and deny reality so long as they don’t have to admit that they were WRONG.

-Laelth

[smirkymonkey]

6. Wait until people start dropping like flies in the fall.

Because most of the health experts, including Fauci, say this will get worse and flu season will only complicate things, on top of children being back in school and adults being back at work. Sooner or later, they will be affected either personally, or they will know someone who has been seriously ill or died from the virus.

Then maybe reality will knock some sense into them.

[SoCalNative]

7. Not everyone is headed back to the workplace

My company sent us notice last week that employees will not be returning to the office this year.

[smirkymonkey]

10. You lucky bastard!

You lucky, lucky bastard! They only hung me the right way up yesterday.

Seriously, though. That is great. I think. For me it would be. I am in no hurry to get back, especially since I think Fall is going to be a nightmare with a resurgence of the virus and everyone back out in public. Are you happy about it?

We will be one week on and alternate one week wfh until further notice. I will still get to wfh on Fridays as usual during the work week, so it will only be about 8 days in per month for me.

A lot of people aren't happy about it and are using childcare and pre-existing conditions as an excuse to continue to wfh, but I don't really have a good excuse, so I guess I have to go, unless once I get there it seems really unsafe to me. I'll play it by ear.

I would really feel a lot safer if we could just wfh through the end of the calendar year. I still have a lot of vacation left, so I will probably use it all up just taking days off here and there.

[SoCalNative]

13. Yeah, I'd prefer to work from home for a bit longer

and am in no hurry to get back to the office. I don't have any excuses to get out of going back when the time comes, unless I can use the fact that I have underlying medical conditions

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. heard it from the neighbor behind me we buy our eggs from

trump flag flying. Vietnam war vet. "mountain person" - family here for hundreds of years. Told me he lost friends to COVID - then his next sentences - "why do the blacks have to break windows? this virus is being overdone - exaggerated - I think after the election it will disappear - no one will even talk about it.

I don't even waste my breath. He is suspicious of me as it is, being someone who just moved here from "the big city" and worried I will try to change things.

Ah, me. What a world.

[D_Master81]

9. Several of my coworkers are in that crowd

1 even said if the 140,000 dead “probably 40,000 are fake.” I asked him since that’s nearly 1 in 3 where he has any proof of such a statement. He said another guy we work with said his friend said his grandma had cancer and died but they called it Covid. I’m like ok assuming that’s the case that’s 1.

I’ll cut him some slack since he’s 20, he probably gets it from his parents.

[mcar]

11. I don't believe it either...

It's higher.

[Nevilledog]

12. I'm with you.

[Yavin4]

14. So, healthcare professionals in NY, AZ, TX, GA, ALA, CA, and FLA are all lying

They're all playing along to hurt Trump. That's a scary level of stupid.

[Wounded Bear]

15. The Big Lie...

A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously". Hitler believed the technique was used by Jews to blame Germany's loss in World War I on German general Erich Ludendorff, who was a prominent nationalist and antisemitic political leader in the Weimar Republic.

- - - - - - - -

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

[canetoad]

16. I'll see your skeptics and raise the CDC

CDC: U.S. COVID-19 case count 6 to 24 times higher than reported
July 21, 2020 / 3:24 PM

Far more Americans have been infected with COVID-19 than reported case counts reflect, a new government report suggests.

COVID-19 infections were anywhere from six to 24 times higher than the number of reported cases in 10 different sites across the United States tested at different times during the pandemic, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study found.

In seven U.S. locales, there were more than 10 times the number of COVID-19 infections than there were reported cases, antibody testing led by Dr. Fiona Havers, of the CDC's COVID-19 Response Team, revealed.

"The findings may reflect the number of persons who had mild or no illness or who did not seek medical care or undergo testing but who still may have contributed to ongoing virus transmission in the population," the researchers concluded.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/07/21/CDC-US-COVID-19-case-count-6-to-24-times-higher-than-reported/6891595358550/