Some folks on the left are hammering the Lincoln Project

[DemocratSinceBirth]

As liberals we have to allow for the possibility that people can change. If we can't allow for that possibility we're lost.

Plus their ads are devastating to Trump.

[imanamerican63]

1. Absolutely spot on!

They are affecting Trump and his goons! They need to keep it up!

[citizen blues]

80. Exactly.

Trump is their true audience. All you have to do is the ad "Whispers" to realize that. They are completely messing with his head, tapping into his paranoia and delusion, poking the bear to goad him into acting more and more irrationally, dangerously, and authoritarian.

It's working beautifully! Trump looks more and more deranged as his poll numbers continue to plummet, and more and more of his 2016 voters produce video confessionals promising to redeem themselves with their votes for Biden.

[Thekaspervote]

2. Political purity is an oxymoron.. their ads are great and receive millions of views

[NurseJackie]

86. People who oppose these ads are fucking idiots who want to help Trump.

[PTWB]

94. Perfectly said.

[Hekate]

106. You have a way with words

[NurseJackie]

108. Thank you!

[Roy Rolling]

156. Media is *Our* Stronghold

The creative arts are dominated by liberal thinkers, the right has no talent to match. The only reason the reformed Republicans of the Lincoln Project are so powerful is because they employ the best liberal creative media people.

Those who can’t see through that are a problem. “We” sat out 2016, not calculating the Russian influence. Fuck that for 2020. None of us are even working now.

[Cetacea]

165. We have the talent. They control the media outlets.

And that is a huge problem

[JI7]

179. Yes, The criticism of LP also came as Biden starts doing well in polls

[DownriverDem]

113. Remember Newt Gingrich?

He was the one to sell that purity crap to the repubs. That is why they have bought into the "no compromise" motto and won't work with the Dems. Don't be like Newt. We the people need all the help we can get to defeat trump and the current repubs.

[Pepsidog]

114. The ads are better than porn and a reminder of how ruthless Rs can be. Keep your enemies close.

[dalton99a]

3. I don't care where the ammunition comes from

We need all ammunition we can get

[NCjack]

33. Problem for GOP. I'm not going to make it mine.

[iluvtennis]

53. Ditto. nt

[agingdem]

79. Talk about delicious irony!

a lot of these never-trumpers worked for, and helped elect, the very same assholes they are now determined to destroy...love it!...and even if they hate Trump and his enabling sycophants more than they hate dirty liberal commie Democrats I don't care as long as the Lincoln Project ads keep coming...if any group of guys knows how to piss off a republican these guys do...welcome to the fold never-trumpers...for now you have our conditional forgiveness...but we still have very long memories...

[Stuart G]

119. Repeat: "We need all the ammunition we can get" K and R your entire post..

[Mz Pip]

4. The enemy of my enemy

is my friend.

At least for now.

[Miguelito Loveless]

12. U.S. foreign policy for the last

century or so, and the reason we have been fighting almost non-stop. Current war in Afghanistan now approaching 4 times longer than World War II.

[not_the_one]

122. And who are the ONLY ones really benefitting from perpetual war?

The military industrial complex, and their numerous political backers. More and more funding every year, and the politicians who enable this gorging at the trough of tax payer money get their slice.

We already have enough fire power to destroy the world many times over. Can you imagine what good could be accomplished if any further funding went towards climate change, renewable energy, health care and education? If the corporations and the rich paid their fair share in taxes?

We are facing the destruction of the world because of greed, especially the greed of those who already have "too much, but never enough".

We are now facing the chickens coming home to roost.

[Mike 03]

5. I've seen these attacks on Twitter as a recurring theme

And I don't trust the motives of these attackers. I think it's yet another effort to cause us to lose confidence in and distrust an important part of our team and divide us on a sideshow issue. I wish there was some way to track down the origin of social media accounts attacking the Lincoln Project, because I'm half-convinced we'd discover some of them are of foreign origin.

Finally, you have to ask yourself the obvious question of who would be trying to get us to distrust the Lincoln Project? Someone who fears the Lincoln Project. Someone who finds them effective and wishes they would go away.

Always think about motive.

[BComplex]

37. Good points, Mike 03. There are many posters on social media with nefarious motives.

And then there are just people working through their own cognitive dissonance with believing all republicans are bad, and then they're bad but may benefit us. I believe there is a whole range of why people post what they do.

It's easiest to believe that all disagreements are conspiracies these days, because we know how many bad actors now have access to what we think of as informed beliefs.

I am enormously grateful for what the Lincoln Project has done for our country, and to teach democratic masses how to make an effective attack ad (which we have never done effectively up to this point). But I also know that we will be on the other end of that stinger when they move their re-made party back into a position they're more comfortable with.

Right now, whatever they do to help us get our country back is ok with me.

[smirkymonkey]

67. +1000

[WheelWalker]

77. I agree. Motive Matters.

[Laelth]

6. Who are these "some people."

I haven’t seen widespread criticism of the Lincoln Project on DU. Quite the contrary.



-Laelth

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Here's a start

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/lincoln-project-republicans-john-kasich-biden-trump-election.html

[Laelth]

34. Interesting essay. Thank you. n/t

-Laelth

[gab13by13]

42. I have my doubts about those people criticizing the Lincoln Project,

the article only gives examples of liberals criticizing allowing Kasich to speak at the Democratic convention. There are good arguments for not allowing Kasich to speak, but the article gives no examples of liberals criticizing the Lincoln project. There are a couple of Lincoln project videos that I don't like but that doesn't make me anti-Lincoln project.

I listen to Charlie Pierce on Stephanie Miller on Sirius radio and I don't recall his criticizing the Lincoln project.

[Yeehah]

158. That article is a joke

The author states "the left" is "angry" and "many progressives" are "furious" with The Lincoln Project, but only names four people on the liberal side who have criticized TLP. The author attributes statements to some (not all) of those four people, which hardly appear furious or angry.

I dismiss out of hand any statement claiming "the left" is doing anything, and the author is trying to create a tempest when there is none. Amateurish article -- I'm surprised to see it coming from NY Magazine.

[2naSalit]

10. I would like to know too...

I have seen some questioning their motives and participation here on DU but not much.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I wasn't specifically referring to DU. In the scheme of things we aren't that powerful.

I was referring to liberal activists and writers:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/lincoln-project-republicans-john-kasich-biden-trump-election.html

[2naSalit]

24. Oh...

I didn't see that earlier. Can't blame them for being suspicious, but I am glad for the assist and will wait to see what shakes out afterward. I think that as a society we will have to change a lot in the next year or three, that's the timeframe I am looking to see change. If it doesn't happen then, we're all screwed.

[KPN]

97. As opposed to neo-liberal ala Jonathan Chait?

[GusBob]

14. Look around

there's one here today

He or she is very upset and vulgar at these folks

Edot to add: the poster said naught about DU in the OP

but I have seen quite a few here

[Laelth]

17. I will. Thanks. n/t

-Laelth

[gab13by13]

45. How do you know he/she is a liberal?

[GusBob]

52. Good point

I have been wondering myself

[Miguelito Loveless]

22. I have criticized TLP

only in so much as to remind folks that the road to Trump was paved by most of the guys running the project. And while they are helping us now, that fact should never be forgotten, nor should we ever trust them, or turn our backs on them.

Dr. Frankenstein may regret making the Monster, and it is great he’s helping organize the villagers and is passing out pitchforks and torches, but it is still the Monster he made.

[Laelth]

40. That seems reasonable.

But it’s not like we could actually do anything to STOP the Lincoln Project, even if a majority of us agreed that they were evil and needed to be stopped. How we evaluate them on the good/bad axis seems trivial and pointless to me. They are what they are. Right now, they’re working to burn down the entire Republican Party as it exists in its current form. We can’t stop them, but I am perfectly happy telling them, “Please. Proceed.”

-Laelth

[gab13by13]

51. Spot on,

those former Republicans are more vocal than many Democrats. They are for sure more brutal.

Allowing Kasich to speak at the convention is a matter for debate. I mean, it looks to me that he wants to run for president in 2024. He can do a press conference in Ohio and bash Trump.

[Laelth]

56. I like the idea of Kasich speaking, personally.

The Republicans let Zell Miller speak up for Bush II, and it seemed to work. Why not?



-Laelth

[Miguelito Loveless]

155. Absolutely.

But we should NEVER delude ourselves that they are on “our” side. They are on their own side, and in it to enrich themselves and retain some power for the right.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

162. Exactly.

Also, two points:

1. Are the ads actually effective in moving opinion in the general population, or are they just satisfying to people who already hate Trump and maybe moving a tiny percentage of former Trump supporters on Twitter?
https://crooked.com/articles/lincoln-project-friend-fraud/

2. What will they do with the surplus funds they're getting after the election? Make similar ads against Dems?

[mucifer]

59. Some in TLP have apologized. Others have not but continue to work to take down trump

[Miguelito Loveless]

153. That's nice that they apologized

But in no way means we should trust them.

[George II]

62. Two of the founders, Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt, were against trump long before he was elected.

[Miguelito Loveless]

152. But they were pro-Bush

and as I said, paved the way for Trump. Bush is a war criminal.

[Thekaspervote]

25. I have seen it on twitter, the comments are uninformed and sometimes brutal

[Laelth]

35. Interesting. Thanks. n/t

-Laelth

[George II]

60. It's been all over the place here on DU the last week or so.

[Laelth]

74. Guess I missed it. n/t

-Laelth

[Cha]

145. The OP didn't say "widespread".. I've seen it.. he's not

going to name names. It's a real thing and I'm glad DSB is talking about it.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Yeah, well politics is often the art of grabbing opportunity, and purists are known as...

losers.

[Metatron]

65. Aptly put. n/t

[Hugin]

8. There is exactly no chance they've changed...

They are simply tired of working around Trump and once he's gone it will be back to business as usual.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. They've burned their bridges. They can't go back.

And converts make the best witnesses.

[Laelth]

92. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[George II]

61. I'm willing to take that risk at this point in our history.

[JudyM]

182. They have publicly expressed strong support for republican platform values. They will fight us

when they are done with trump. There is no “change” in their plans.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. Or, when you see your opponents burying themselves, give them a shovel?

[Laelth]

95. Sun Tzu.

“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”



-Laelth

[H2O Man]

16. Recommended.

I recommended your OP, because it makes for a valuable discussion. I do agree that, in life, individuals can change. As Muhammad Ali used to say, if you are the same todays as you were twenty years ago, you have wasted twenty years of life.

However, I do not think the people in the Lincoln Project have changed. There is no evidence that they have. Listening to them, they are still conservative republicans, and should not be confused with Democrats. Yet that brings us to an important point: in struggles -- such as the struggle against Trump et al -- one can have temporary alliances with groups or individuals. That doesn't mean you will see eye to eye, or be on the same "team," in the future. But it dooes mean having a mutual respect.

[Jedi Guy]

70. There's a difference between a conservative Republican and a Trumpian Republican, IMO.

I don't subscribe to the notion that every conservative or Republican is "evil" simply by dint of being conservative or Republican. It's possible for people of good conscience to disagree. Trumpian Republicans fall outside that idea since they lack a conscience entirely.

I'd like to think that, after (hopefully) taking an epic drubbing at the polls come November, the Never Trumpers will either throw the Trumpians out the airlock and take control of the GOP, or split off and form their own conservative party. In either case, they need to spend some time in the wilderness and do some soul-searching, hopefully ending up as the loyal opposition rather than what the GOP is now.

[H2O Man]

96. Yes, of course there is.

That's why the conservative republicans have split from Trump. And there are, from time to time, things that can make for common ground between Democrats and conservative republicans. But there are never things that Democrats and the Trump cult can agree on.

[Wednesdays]

166. If TLP forms their own party,

they'll limp along for a decade or two, and then fizzle out like Ross Perot's party. If they last even that long. Such has been the fate of all third parties throughout the history of the republic.

[Jedi Guy]

173. You're probably right.

But the smart money was on Trump's 2016 campaign fizzling out, too. You never can tell when it comes to politics.

[KPN]

99. Well said.

Hear, hear ... and

[H2O Man]

101. Thank you!

[lunatica]

125. Well we hoped that Trump would destroy the Republican party

It’s pretty obvious to me that we’re getting exactly what we hoped for with the Lincoln Project.

Being self aware and realizing the Republican Party has devolved into the rot of selfish and stupid self destruction, the Lincoln Project Group are being realistic and hastening the demise of their own party. But they also plan to do the tedious work of rebuilding their party.

Trump has also served his purpose so now they will discard him because if he is allowed to continue he will go too far for their purposes. They don’t want everyone dead. They want us alive to serve them in the future. We are their cheap labor, their military to make sure they’re supreme, and their servants to manage their lifestyles.

So if we’re as smart as we think we are, we will also capitalize and build our Democratic foundation to eliminate what didn’t work and to strengthen what did.

[H2O Man]

139. Well said!

We have a lot of re-building to do. This guy has been extremely destructive.

I'm worried about kids returning to school. Recent studies document the neurological damage that the disease does to some of the youngsters who appear to "get better."

[lunatica]

140. I worry too, but

I think most parents won’t send their kids back. Most teachers won’t go back either. The entire thing is being met with reality that hits too close to home.

[jimlup]

18. My personal opinion is that strange times like these

call for unusual alliances.

I'm fine with these folks. They've seen through tRump from day 1.

We can have the left/right debate later. Right now, something even more important is at stake.

[JonLP24]

19. One of the founders fantasized about shooting Michael Brown

Do whatever you want but I refuse to share them.

[NRaleighLiberal]

20. I think the skepticism is warranted. Let's see what happens after Biden wins

[KPN]

100. Agreed. I welcome their efforts and love

their ad runs. After the election, when things are back to what used to be normal, we will see.

[dawg]

21. I can fight with someone about lowering taxes on rich people, and still raise a glass with them ...

at the end of the day. I might think they're stingy and misguided, but politics doesn't have to be everything.

I cannot raise a glass with those who would trample the rights of people to vote, to peacefully protest, or to be governed by the rule of law.

The Lincoln Project, the Never-Trumpers, Mitt Romney and the like, all belong to the first category. Let's work together to end this threat to our republic. Then, we can fight each other like hell to set the national priorities going forward.

[JonLP24]

23. Mitt Romney recently pushed to fast track SS & Medicare cuts

Mitt Romney is my enemy today.

[dawg]

32. As important as those programs are, they are still just matters of policy.

If people don't want them to be cut, they can vote for the party that doesn't advocate cutting them, and the ability of conservatives to prevail will be constrained. That's the essence of Democracy.

Democracy doesn't mean that we will win every fight. It just means that the American people get to choose the people who represent them, and they have recourse against those people when they feel their interests have been betrayed.

[JonLP24]

38. I'm not giving Romney a pass just because I hate Trump

Politicians like Romney scare me more than Trump because with Trump you can see him coming a mile away with while Romney is slick enough to get an appreciation thread at DU then turn around & try to pass these policies in a middle of a pandemic

[dawg]

89. I'm not exactly giving him a pass either.

I just put him in the "opponent" category rather than the "enemy" category.

[HotTeaBag]

26. To all those doing so I would recommend that they listen to

an episode of the 'Into America' podcast wherein Trymaine Lee talks to Reed Galen the co-founder of the group - also the Bulwark podcast and the Lincoln Project's very own podcast.

Then, do some reading of the articles that other 'Never Trumpers' have written (and continue to write daily) - and check out some of their Twitter feeds. Get a real feel for where they're coming from. Don't stop at Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson - keep going to Andrew Sullivan and Jonathan V. Last and Amanda Carpenter and so many more.

I get the impression that most people who have negative things to say about them only know them through the ads and the occasional appearance on MSNBC - there's a lot more to them and their 'cause' than that.

[JonLP24]

31. I know a lot more about them than that

People have dug stuff on them. Rick Wilson & his wife took a photo with a confederate flag cooler with "The South will Rise again". Wilson's wife called Roland Martin the n-word though she apologized to him directly when someone dug it up. Rick Wilson also has deleted Sandy Hook tweets. He also supported a third party candidate in 2016.

One of the founders fantasized about shooting Michael Brown which crossed the line for me.

I believe one of them has tax troubles. There is reporting out there that dug into them.

[HotTeaBag]

39. OK, great.

Disregard an entire movement that exists solely to remove Donald J. Trump (and all that he stands for as well as everyone who has enabled and facilitated him) from office and are disgusted by what the Republican party has become because of a cooler.

You do you.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

54. lol

[stopdiggin]

128. the purity police will stand firm

1) no one (that I've ever heard) has ever said that these people are Democrats -- or are trying to become Democrats.
2) no one has ever said that these people's politics, agenda or platform aligns with the Democrats -- with the sole exception of the defeat of Donald Trump, and the excision of the cancer he has brought to the party and the country.
3) most of us find ourselves quite comfortable with point #2 -- without the slightest inclination to offer up a seat on the DNC -- or any other "nose under the tent" scenario envisioned.

Frankly, this topic has been pretty well done -- turned several times -- and is now heading for excessively "crisp." -- Stick a fork in it.
----- --- --- -----

[HotTeaBag]

130. That they will.

I've been spending a lot of my listening and reading time paying attention to the Conservatives that fall under the 'Never Trump' movement and I really think that people's knee jerk negative reaction could be tempered with a (slightly) deeper dive into what they're really about.

Yes, they are Republicans (though some have left the party), yes they like a lot of the things that Trump has done as they would have been done under any Republican president (tax cuts, deregulation), but some of the very same things that we find absolutely abhorrent (kids in cages, pulling out of treaties, Bill Barr, Stephen Miller, Matt Gaetz, Fox News, troops in the streets, the racism and propping up of the Confederacy, the daily lies from the various press secretaries, the complete and utter disregard for the rule of law, the cowardice of other Republicans, etc., etc.), they are sickened by.

It goes well beyond wanting to get rid of Trump only to reclaim their 'brand', which is a common theme among those who don't 'trust' the Lincoln Project folks - they want to destroy all things Trumpism and they've lost a considerable amount by refusing to get on the Trump Train.

[stopdiggin]

138. there once was a Republican party

that I could vigorously disagree with on almost every major issue.

That I would have never thought to label fascist

(On the other hand -- I clearly remember an entire slate of Republican presidential candidates in 2016 -- that couldn't find it in themselves to support the fundamental concept of evolution. So ...)

[niyad]

58. Links, from legitimate, reliable sources, would be helpful. "Dug stuff up" unattributed. Does not

Count.

[MaryMagdaline]

27. IKR

Where did they think those majority voters were coming from that would put progressives over the top? Almost half the country voted for trump and bush.

[yardwork]

28. I don't think these people have changed, but their ads are good.

The reason for the ads is simple. Trump is destroying the Republican brand. They need to get rid of him. As soon as he's gone, these people will resume their attacks on Democrats.

[mjvpi]

81. That's my knock on them.

I wish we could come up with those ads. It’s like having a great player on your team that will be a free agent next year. There is a good chance that you will be defending against their brilliance in the near future.

[stopdiggin]

129. good analagy

And you're certainly not planning on benching that player (or reducing his rotation) during this pennant race. Right?

[JudyM]

184. Exactly.

I listened to their recent livestream. They talked about their values using typical replublican tropes like “small government” and “lower taxes” and also “right to life”... not much of a chance their leftover coffers and bullhorns won’t be used against us after trump is gone.

Right is on our side but We. Need. Sharper. Marketing.

[KG]

29. I lulz'd

[mokawanis]

30. What do you think the Lincoln Project will be doing 4 years from now?

The odds that they will be supporting the Democratic nominee are pretty slim. I don't think they've changed, I just think they hate Trump and don't see him as a true Republican.

[BannonsLiver]

43. I couldn't care less what they are doing.

It’s not a fucking marriage. They don’t owe me anything.

[moonscape]

75. They're conservative, and that's okay. They will never

be Democrats but they just might come out of this more principled conservatives. They already are.

[ehrnst]

83. I don't care. I'm not giving them money, and if they can help defeat DT now, I'll

gladly take their help.

[mokawanis]

90. I agree

I like what they're doing. The ads are powerful. No one can say what the political landscape will look like four years from now.It's not hard to imagine LC running nasty attack ads against Biden, but for now I like what they're doing.

[meadowlander]

143. There won't be a "four years from now" if Trump is reelected.

Eyes on the prize, folks.

[CatLady78]

36. I have no views on The Lincoln Project

If their ads work, good.
But I do dislike Romney very much. That is my line in the sand re repugs. He can criticize Trump all he wants, he is still a horrible human being in my book.

[BannonsLiver]

41. Ah yes the red rose purity morons

Who coincidentally don’t know much about actual politics and winning elections. I lost interest in their wants, needs and feelings around Nov 2016.

[LakeArenal]

44. We also must realize that this slick, organized group

Will use the exact messaging against Dems in the next election.
Steve Schmidt will be a “new Republican,
and Nicole Wallace will be promoting it all on her her crazy good show.

[blueinredohio]

46. Is it really the left or could it be trolls?

[CrispyQ]

47. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, is a temporary condition.

Their ads are hard-hitting, to the point, & I wouldn't send them a dime. What I'd like to know, is where are the ads from our side? I don't mean the Biden campaign, I mean the Democratic Party ads, that rip Trump & the republicans? There are a couple of PACs, the Meidas Touch comes to mind, but where are the Party ads? Oh, my bad! I keep forgetting that we don't believe in marketing.

[Enoki33]

48. Allow for the very strong possibility that these so called

progressives in fact are Russian disinformation agents. Classic method of sowing discord. Always ask who benefits.

[Sugarcoated]

150. Was just scrolling through to see if this possibility was mentioned

I'd go so far as to say most of the negative Lincoln Project Tweeters are Russian trolls. I consider myself a social media warrior, been mixing it up since the internet began in the 90's, I can spot things, here on DU as well as Twitter and FB, padded reviews also. It can be subtle. Like, for example I'm seeing better trolling, like the A team trolls have replaced the staff. Also common variety American Trumpers and paid Trump media trolls likely. They're getting panicky and ramping things up, but they aren't nearly as slick and smart as Puktin's. Russian disinformation is ramping up in all social media platforms.

[Hortensis]

49. I don't need them to change beyond their normal range, which

they already have, and outstandingly.

They're not going to get brain transplants, so this is it for them: conservatives trying to remove Trump and trumpism from political power.

People should completely put out of their minds any clueless expectation for anything else.
They are conservatives fighting their enemies among the RW extremists and kleptocrats who've been destroying conservatism itself as a political force.

They're effectively counterparts, in fact, to the liberal Democrats who stop LW extremists whenever they get puffed up with the notion that they can destroy or take over the Democratic Party. The big difference is that sane conservatives failed to save their party from very powerful far-right forces, some getting carried too far along themselves; while, thanks in good part to our far weaker LW problem, liberals have always succeeded.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

50. The far left is totally marginalized by TLP

and that is their grief. With moderate republicans and centrist independents on the Biden bandwagon, some people are angry that they can't push Joe Biden around like they did Hillary. They are also powerless to have an "I told you so moment" by staying home or voting for Jill Stein like many did the last time.

[betsuni]

136. [phone]

[Me.]

55. The Lincoln Project Is A Gift

their money, time and reputations. I say thank you and will keep my eyes open to see how they behave after Biden is in the WH.

[sop]

57. It's a desperate act of self-preservation for the people who started TLP.

Trump is destroying the Republican party they know and love. He has taken their party so far to the fascist, racist right, their own candidates may never win again if Trumpism is not repudiated. Their ads target the Republican center, not the left. In four years Schmidt, Conway and the others will be back at it, supporting Bush III, Cheney's daughter or even Romney. If Democrats and TLP share a common cause today, so be it. We need to defeat Trump.

[Hotler]

63. The repugs against the orange one are not trying to change or,

have seen a new light or, new writing on the wall. They are trying to save the GOP. They are not our friends. And where are the devastating ads from the DNC? Democrats should be leading the way with devastating ads.

"Tosh is one of a growing number of wealthy conservative Americans who say Trump is a threat to democracy and the long-term health of the Republican Party."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-wealthy-republicans-who-want-to-oust-trump-in-novembers-election/ar-BB1785Oz?li=BBnb7Kz

[Lucky Luciano]

64. They are our friends only in this fight.

Glad they are working on stopping this insanity.

Sometimes I wonder if the only reason they oppose Covid-45 is because they were left off the gravy train. If they were able to grift off of Covid-45, would they still oppose him? My guess is they would not.

So, we allow them to work with us gladly and then see what they do through 2024 to verify a true change for the better.

[wnylib]

66. I'm not naive enough to believe

that they have changed. It's good politics for them to distance themselves from Trump's craziness in order to try to preserve down ticket Republican votes and try to salvage their party's image for future elections.

Republicans pulled away from Nixon, too, when Watergate became a liability. But they bounced back later to give us Reagan, to trash and investigate the hell out of both Clintons, and to give us Bush Jr.

It's good that their anti Trump ads are kicking his butt. But it's terribly naive, at best, to think that they have any motive besides their own image and future elections.

[Sloumeau]

68. I would compare The Lincoln Project to Russia during WWII.

As long as they are fighting Nazis, I have no problem with them.

[Thekaspervote]

93. Exactly! We may very well have not won WWII had it not been for Stalin and russia

[BobTheSubgenius]

69. EVEN IF the LP turns out to be no real friend of the Left and have to be jettisoned at some point,

it is only NOW that matters now. Removing the existential threat to the political and social freedom is Priority #1, and if the LP is aiding in that - which I completely believe they are - they at least get a seat at the table.

Priority #2 - removing that existential threat.

Priority #3 - removing....well, you get the idea.

[NoMoreRepugs]

71. The Lincoln Project founders don't give a shit. It's all about

redemption and ridding the country of the cancer that is RUMP.

[WheelWalker]

72. I, for one, believe in and endorse redemption. n/t

[Mr. Evil]

73. My take on The Lincoln Project.

These are the same people that demonized Max Cleland for the likes of Saxby Chambliss and gave us Sarah Palin. To me, their motives are that they are painting themselves as the decent republicans and when this Trumpism shit blows over they will come back out of the woodwork to support supposedly decent republicans in future elections and we'll be right back where we started from.

I admit, though, that their ads are effective and very well produced. They will no doubt help Joe Biden but, I don't put anything past republicans. And until they actually atone for ratfucking Max Cleland, John Kerry and other decent democratic candidates I'll hold my accolades for their efforts against Trump.

Like I said, republicans will do anything to get their candidates and themselves elected. I'm just a bit cautious thinking their motives are more geared to keeping the republican party from disappearing into oblivion.

[JGug1]

76. Hammering Lincoln Project

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's as simple as that. Let us hope that that philosophy doesn't result in what happened after WWII with the enemy of our enemy.

[bucolic_frolic]

78. I just wonder if they're changing any minds

prying 1980s Republican Main Street away from a GOP ticket is surgery

[Stuart G]

116. The key to everything, "..their effect is marginal--but might prove decisive" That is it..

Anything and anyone that could .."prove decisive" in getting rid of Trump is important...

Who knows because this is late July?..Your point is outstanding..

[usaf-vet]

82. There not "folks" on the left. They are idiots that would complain if Trump resigned tomorrow.....

.... because it's a plot so they won't get a chance to vote against him in November.

The Lincoln Project ads are destroying Trump piece by piece. It's a wonderful thing to watch. I wish I had more money to send them so someday soon I can say I helped pay for those ads that destroyed Trump.

[Snake Plissken]

84. The other Susan is concerned about the Lincoln Project ... Susan Sarandon

[paleotn]

85. We have a common enemy...

An enemy who is so far gone that even normal Republican types think he's an existential threat to the democracy. But that doesn't mean guys like Wilson, et al. have changed. It's more a measure of how indescribably fascist Donnie and company are.

The irony is, many of the folks behind the Lincoln Project laid the groundwork for a Trumpian type character. I think he's the logical conclusion of work they've been at since at least the 70's.

So, in my mind, The Lincoln Project is like Dr. Frankenstein assisting the towns folks in taking down the monster he created. We do appreciate the help, but as far as changed goes, lets hope they've at least learned a lesson from all this.

[Glaisne]

87. Why isn't the left

making ads like these?

[JI7]

127. The true left ( meaning liberals) ARE making good ads

the ones the OP mentions don't want Democrats to win.

[Mr. Ected]

88. I have no problem collaborating with the opponent

Though we may have different objectives.

The key is to rid our country of this menace to democracy itself as soon as humanly possible.

If we don't work together, we may not win that battle, thus rendering everything else moot.

If we coordinate our efforts and prevail, we can then go our separate ways and practice democracy in the manner it was intended, win or lose.

I see the fascist Trump as an existential threat to everything we've accomplished over the past 244 years.

[LizBeth]

98. They have not changed, they just oppose Trump and what Republicans are doing this much.

They are still Republicans and I think they are good with that. Right now we have a common goal. I doubt we will tomorrow as in the future. I will jump on board now and battle them later.

[Gore1FL]

102. I welcome their advertisements. My concern is they are being held up as heroes.

They aren't heroes.

Similarly, Russians were allies in WW II, but we didn't heap praise on them at the expense of closer allies.

[bringthePaine]

103. lessee, somebody famous once said "Trust, but verify." now who could that've been?...😬

[rwsanders]

104. Great the ads are hurting Trump, but I believe it is the Bush/Cheney Neocons wanting to take back

control of the Republican Party. They were OK to sit back while Trump was useful, but the crossed a line somewhere and is now doomed.

[KPN]

105. Interesting thread. Not sure that any of it actually

matters much. The anti-Trump sentiment is vast and relatively indivisible at this point. The Lincoln Project ads are an effective contribution in ridding us of the nightmare. Once done, then maybe this stuff will matter.

[LAS14]

107. There's no reason to expect the Lincoln Project people to turn into Democrats.

All along I've maintained that Trump's failings extend far beyond party.

[bluescribbler]

109. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The Lincoln Project is my friend for now. We shall see what they do after the election.

[Demsrule86]

134. The purist are always mad about some Democratic transgression but never turn their

criticisms on Republicans...why is that?

[relayerbob]

110. Let the purists complain

Let's see what happens. We need to unify this country. Period. The divisiveness must stop, and these folks are taking a step in that direction.

[CaptainTruth]

111. If someone is attacking Trump, they can proceed.

If they start attacking Democrats, then we fight back.

[hlthe2b]

112. Some folks on the left supported Jill Stein (and Ralph Nader before that). One only hopes these

"sometime alies" will be at least as supportive as the Lincoln Project THIS TIME AROUND.

[tiptonic]

115. Can we say

Can we say, people opposed to the Lincoin Project ads, are Putinistas? They are doing his work, for him.

[mac56]

117. I want there to be a principled opposition.

That's what TLP is.

[CaptainTruth]

118. I recently discovered Lincoln had a Democratic VP, Andrew Johnson.

And yes I know all about Johnson's views on slavery, & why he was chosen, & he was impeached etc.

But my point is, Lincoln, a Republican, chose a Democrat to be his running mate for his second term & I wonder if that factored into the selection of "The Lincoln Project" for their name?

I dunno, just wondering.

[pandr32]

120. Oh Gawd no!

Purity is not even remotely important at this point. We need legions joining hands to rid ourselves of the friends of Putin who want to destroy our country with their chosen imbecile in the Oval Office.

Haven't those "lefties" taken a gander at the situation we are currently in? There will be nothing left to fight for unless they join in and support the rest of us.

[dlk]

121. Could the liberal attacks be from Russians, Chinese, etc.?

[Sewa]

141. Why can't you except that some liberals

won’t support the TLP? Somethings wrong when supporting and donating to Republicans is good and NOT supporting Republicans is bad.

I won’t be exploited by the TLP carpetbaggers.

[dlk]

164. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and not everyone will agree on everything

However, malevolent entities are utilizing among other things bots and trolls to divide us. That shouldn't be discounted.

[angrychair]

123. They are great for what they do

But I will never forgot that they are Republicans.

[Laha]

124. Agreed

I've seen some reports of shady things involving their donations and production costs. But their ads are spot on. It's heartening to see that it isn't just a binary issue. People can see the horror that may be to come if these madmen are not stopped, all across the political spectrum.

[JI7]

126. There are some who claim to be on the left but want Democrats to lose

we see them every election.

[Demsrule86]

131. They are upset about moderate elected...won't get their policy through... I swear some

of them would rather lose then use incremental methods to achieve policy.

[aidbo]

132. They are not the enemy of our enemy. They are the enemy.

And they are trying to save the Republican Party from Donald Trump. And we are helping them.
Just like we helped save the Republican Party after they caused the 2008 financial meltdown down and we said ‘we must look forward not backward’.
Obviously, we cannot stop them from putting out their ads but we do not need to give them a tongue bath while they’re at it.

[backscatter712]

133. We need two political parties of grown adults if this country's going to put itself back together.

Not going to happen with Trump or any of his cultists.

So I agree with the LP there - BURN THE GOP TO THE GROUND AND SALT THE EARTH ON WHICH IT STOOD.

Maybe if Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson & co. formed a new center-right party that was composed of actual human beings...

[LAS14]

146. Well stated. I totally agree. It's not a good idea to aim for a one party system, even...

... if it's us.

[tenderfoot]

135. They are still Republicans - they may not like Trump but they LOVE everything he's done

Those are the cold hard facts.

[live love laugh]

174. Agree 💯

[theaocp]

137. They can have all the pats on the head they like.

Then, continue to evolve, if they're able. I will not let them forget what they have done.

[meadowlander]

142. They haven't changed but when someone else is doing your dirty work, shut up and let them.

[wryter2000]

144. What says to me they've changed

They're not just going after Trump. They're going after his Republican enablers. They could have suggested that Trump was an anomaly and once he's gone, the others will become sane and reasonable again.

We'll see, but I sure welcome the ads. They're amazing.

[lame54]

147. Come February...

Can we ask them what their future roles will be?

[jpak]

148. Are the folks on the left Russian bots?

Asking for a friend

[patphil]

149. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

If they help take down the Trump beast, then I am absolutely OK with that.

This is a combined effort of all Americans who truly believe in democracy and freedom.

My thanks to the Lincoln Project for their contribution to the effort.

[Sugarcoated]

151. I mix it up for the benefit of Democrats on social media and have for 20+ years.

I'd go so far as to say most of the negative Lincoln Project Tweeters are Russian trolls.

[Skittles]

154. I will believe they have "changed" when they are no longer repukes

yes indeed

[DIVINEprividence]

157. They have done more to resist Trump than Bernie

Let’s face it, there are some on the left who will bitch and moan about anything. There is always some injustice somewhere to get upset about. Identity politics and political correctness gets old real fast. You can’t have everything! I am happy these guys are on our side. Democrats are too nice to make ads like these.

[PatrickforO]

159. Oh, absolutely. Their ads are great and they need to keep them coming.

We just need to not forget who they are, nor should we expect them to be all fuzzy-liberal (like me, for instance) when Trump is defeated. Because they are still conservative. The good thing about them is they are conservative but might actually want to help govern instead of obstruct. And that's fine.

[DTomlinson]

160. I support them just like I support any effort to defeat Trump.

[Progressive dog]

161. While I'm not certain that the people in

the Lincoln Project have changed, I see no reason to join Trump in attacking them.

[questionseverything]

167. i am glad for the ads they are running now

I would just feel better if we were doing the same quality ads for ourselves

[Laura PourMeADrink]

168. Of course. But it all seems to me to point to

glaring lack of Dem ad response in a challenging, provocative way. Nothing creative. Where the hell are you Bloomberg? Thought you would help.

There is a gold mine in nonpartisan crime to air. Like him reversing Obama reg that stopped coal companies from dumping sludge with proven cancer causing components in the water!!! Easy ad...kids splashing in water, grandpa fishing...superimposed with Dipshit removing reg.

Think about it. If you loved a guy and people aired how he was stupid...you would defend him.

We are going about this 100% wrong to attract fringe.

[eppur_se_muova]

169. The enemy of my enemy is my ...

... useful ally of the moment. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just don't make any pretense about it and we'll be fine.

[seta1950]

170. I don't think that's good

As they say ‘ don’t look a gift horse in the mouth’ let them do it, their ads are great.

[Joinfortmill]

171. They're idiots. Lincoln Project rocks.

[TheFarseer]

172. I'm a little worried

That too much love for Lincoln Project will mainstream Republican positions. “Yeah, of course we should cut taxes for the rich, get rid of Medicaid and invade Iran, but no mean tweets and remember to pretend you’re not racist.” Let’s not let that line of thinking get any traction.

[summer_in_TX]

175. Personally I hope that they'll turn to reforming the propaganda machine and

media system that supported the degradation of the GOP.

Perhaps they realize that the conditions that led to the Trump presidency have to be permanently disabled.

[TeamPooka]

176. right now, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. After we win in Nov. we'll worry about them.

[napi21]

177. Well, they're irresponsible for acting like that! I constantly hammer the Pubs for hating somebody

just because they're Dems, and I won't accept and Dems hammering a group of Pubs just because they're Pubs. I too am impressed with their ads. If there's any criticism due,, it's to the Dems because THEY can't make ds as good as the members of The Lincoln Project!

[Mike Niendorff]

178. Fuck their "Plan B"

If they're piling on Trump, go for it.

But they're not your friends.

These are the rats jumping the ship, and trying to salvage the operation for the Trump aftermath.

This is their "Plan B".

Burn it to the ground too.


MDN

[GoneOffShore]

180. I am acquainted with one of these guys. He can't go back.

He's totally burnt his bridges doing this. No Republican will hire any of them again.

[Prof.Higgins]

181. Churchill loathed Communists, but allied with Stalin to win WWII. We're in a war. n/t

[spanone]

183. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️K&R⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[Historic NY]

185. Most what I see is they want Trump, his minions

and his Republican supporters sent to the dust bin.

Who would have thought x-Rep Congressman Joe Walsh would be working to elect Joe Biden.

I've seen lots of mea-culpas out there, spoken & written. They are putting the rubber to wear it meets the road in some devastating ads.

I have no doubts they will try to rebuild a new party, but for them to recognize this deeply the position they are taking against Republicans and Trump is sometimes mind boggling.

Republican Voters Against Trump, videos by individual is brutal testament to the vitriol out there.

[R B Garr]

186. Thanks. How can anyone look at their ads and complain??

There is nothing to complain about so trying to whip up some criticism is just another reflection of sour grapes.

[NewJeffCT]

187. Their ads are fantastic and they get into Trump's head

I welcome their help.

However, if I want to donate to a group that makes ads, I'd donate to Vote Vets, Meidas Touch or somebody similar.

[obamanut2012]

188. THey are being very, very honest

They want Trump and his ilk out of office, all of them, will support Biden as President for three years, and then will support the GOP 2024 candidate IF they are not a Trumper. If they are, they will take them out.

WE are both using one another, and as long as everyone knows what's up, and we all do, I tip my hat to them.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

189. "SOME PEOPLE SAY...." Generally I ignore "some people say" as a news source.

"Some people say" all kinds of stuff.

WHO CARES.