The Rude Pundit: AOC Fucks the Patriarchy's Shit Up

[babylonsister]

https://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2020/07/aoc-fucks-patriarchys-shit-up.html

The Rude Pundit
Proudly lowering the level of political discourse
7/24/2020
AOC Fucks the Patriarchy's Shit Up


The line from Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's calm evisceration of Rep. Ted Yoho yesterday on the floor of the House of Representatives that will likely be the one that is remembered is something that shouldn't need to be said: "Having a daughter does not make a man decent. Having a wife does not make a decent man. Treating people with dignity and respect makes a decent man." Too many terrible men have tried to use the fact that they're related to women as a defense for their shit behavior. Ocasio-Cortez was done with that, as we all should be. Ted Bundy had a mom. Bill Cosby has a wife and daughters. Donald Trump has had three wives and two daughters. Their proximity to women did nothing to ameliorate their hideous acts towards women.

Ocasio-Cortez said that she wasn't speaking so much because Yoho had called her a "fucking bitch" on the steps of the Capitol but because, the day before, Yoho had offered the fake apology of a fucking bitch. Yoho has long been a fucking bitch. He rode into DC on one of the racist Tea Party waves in 2012, representing a district in Florida that's 75% white. He's been a loyal gobbler of Koch money, the kind of piece of shit Republican who votes to defund Planned Parenthood, won't say if the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is constitutional, and refuses to vote for a federal anti-lynching bill because that would be "overreach." What had so upset Yoho that he felt he had to confront Ocasio-Cortez? The Democrat from NYC had said a month ago that poverty leads to crime, something that we've fucking known since at least Les Miserables. But that set off Yoho because if there's one thing a Republican doesn't want to hear, it's that you might need to actually help people.

Then, proving that he's one of the littlest fucking bitches in the bitch-filled GOP caucus, Yoho went to the mic in the House on Wednesday to say, in essence, "Sorry if what I said upset you. Oh, and I didn't say it. Oh, and I might have said it but I didn't intend for her to hear it. Oh, and I only said the thing I didn't say because I love my country and God and my wife and daughters and I'm gonna hide behind all that because I'm a fucking bitch." More or less, that was it.

snip//

Yoho's pathetic little slap at Ocasio-Cortez is just another of the last gasps of a white patriarchy that has been on oxygen for at least a decade, kept alive by unholy medical procedures and the force of pure racist and sexist fear, like Sheldon Adelson or the thankfully dead Strom Thurmond, that their day may finally, at long last, after so much delay, be over. And it's going to be women like Ocasio-Cortez and the dozen-plus women in Congress who stood with her, as well as the daughters and granddaughters of soon-to-be extinct creatures like Yoho.

Goddamn, it can't come soon enough. Please take the keys away from men, whether in Congress or in other positions of power and hopefully the presidency one day soon. God knows people like Ted Yoho have fucked this nation he supposedly loves for everyone, including wives and daughters. No, the people who really love the United States know it must change or it will die. Ocasio-Cortez and Pramila Jayapal and Ayanna Pressley and Mikie Sherrill and Rashida Tlaib and so many more will keep giving the patriarchy a beat down in the Congress and elsewhere until it's finally yielded to the hope of progress.

[malaise]

1. Seriously Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was brilliant

The fact that she and others addressed ReTHUG behavior towards women is more than relevant 100 years after women got the right to vote.

[TheBlackAdder]

110. These cro-magons will be shutting the fuck up in fear of having their words read into the record. 😂

[malaise]

112. Good

[Hotler]

2. .....

[Guilded Lilly]

3. I want to REC this a dozen times! I was jumping up and down in my shelter-at-home sanctuary...

wishing there was someone there I could celebrate with when I watched her fiercely and calmly obliterate him.

So, I sent it out in email to everyone I know!
I’m still bursting with admiration.

[erronis]

6. Add mine. And I'll forward it on to plenty of others.

[AllaN01Bear]

7. you are chelebrating with us.

to aoc.

[Raster]

77. Oh Hell YES!

"Please take the keys away from men, whether in Congress or in other positions of power and hopefully the presidency one day soon."

[Docreed2003]

4. K&R

[Mad_Dem_X]

5. AOC rocks!!!

Her response was brilliant.

[AllaN01Bear]

8. touche

[Duppers]

9. Hubs & I were just saying this...

It's going to be the tough young women who save this country. They're being elected to do just that. Being liked is not a priority, doing the right thing is.

[volstork]

10. Brilliant.

[ladym55]

11. Rude was a little more explicit than I was

I told my daughter to listen to AOC's speech, telling her that AOC calmly removed Yoho's balls and carried them out of the chamber.

So apparently Rude agrees with me, but like I said, he's a wee bit more graphic.

[Autumn]

12. These young women like her and the squad will save this country. Give them the reins.

[PandoraAwakened]

27. +1000! n/t

[ehrnst]

30. With some more experience, yes. We have an excellent Speaker at the reins, and need all the

experience we can get at this tipping point in history.

AOC has come around to understanding that, and I don't think she's trying for the reins right now.

[Autumn]

33. Fresh ideas are better than 30 years of experience. nt

[ehrnst]

34. Not in a crisis like the one we are in. You don't send in a rookie

to do the job of the expert, which we need right now to battle for our very Democracy.

I suppose you'd prefer a newly minted doc doing surgery on you than someone who has decades of experience, and a record of success?

I highly doubt it.

Our country is in need of someone who knows where the bodies are buried, a very thorough knowledge of procedure and GOP dirty tricks and has no ambitions higher than the position they have.

Besides, AOC and Ayanna Pressley have both come around to understanding that Speaker Pelosi is the best person for the job right now, even if Madame Speaker has been too effective for some people to trust. Powerful, effective women are often suspected of doing nefarious things rather than earning their authority, especially by those on the far right and far left, sadly

Madame Speaker is a powerful advocate for women, and knows what she's doing. Never fear.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/508692-pelosi-theres-no-limit-to-the-disrespect-of-women

[Autumn]

35. She's no rookie and she's got a lot of sense. One of the best. nt

[ehrnst]

36. She's a freshman. That's the definition of rookie.

Do you want a celebrity physician with little experience doing surgery on you or one with decades of successes who is too busy to appear at SXSW?

You didn't answer, unsurprisingly.

One doesn't just discount experience because one is irritated by the persistence of a highly competent woman. Ask AOC:

https://www.newsbreak.com/new-york/new-york/news/1512018045816/aoc-visits-the-view-to-praise-nancy-pelosi-as-the-mama-bear-of-the-democratic-party-and-chide-bernie-bros

Often, when a woman reaches a certain age, and she doesn't just disappear, she's suspect and dispised for being unapologetically good at what she does, and persisting.

https://thehill.com/opinion/447199-budowsky-pelosi-a-historically-great-speaker

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/25/how-nancy-pelosis-unlikely-rise-turned-her-into-most-powerful-woman-us-history/?arc404=true

Sadly, that kind of misogyny isn't exclusive to the far right.

But I'll bite: what makes AOC or the Squad "better" than Pelosi for handling "the reins?"

[Autumn]

37. I agree, and maybe you should stop discounting all women. I find that my young Dr is more

thorough and open to what I have to say and has better ideas than my older one ever was and I trust her completely. As for surgery I haven't had one in 55 years so that isn't a concern but I certainly wouldn't mind a young surgeon operating on me. They are trained you know. And how else do they get experience? No need to answer that.

[ehrnst]

38. When did I "discount all women?"

When one needs to set up and attack a strawman to make one's point, perhaps one should re-examine one's point. I don't defend such strawmen others attack - just ask Uncle Joe. He's made himself scarce these days, hasn't he?



You are still avoiding the question - if you had a choice of surgeons, which one would you choose - the celebrity doc with less than two years of practice or one with decades of success? I assume your GP would recommend someone with experience if you needed surgery, yes?

No need to answer that. I understand completely how awkward that would be.



And FYI: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rookie?s=t

A quarterback with experience and a winning track record is a wiser choice than a rookie player, especially when it's the fourth quarter of a game for the future of our Democracy, even if you resent that experienced, winning quarterback.

[Autumn]

39. Why would I go to a celebrity doctor? That's a dumb question, and I told you I am fine with

a young, (and to break it down so you understand it) Dr with just a couple of years experience. They go to school for quite a while you know. I served on a jury for a case where we found for the plaintiff and gave her a nice settlement because her Dr, who had decades of successes, screwed up. Shit happens. As for straw man ? When one plays a picture card I guess it's because one really has nothing to say.

[ehrnst]

40. Still avoiding the question, I see, by moving the goalposts

Last edited Sat Jul 25, 2020, 05:59 PM - Edit history (2)

and acting as though you didn't understand the question...

(and to break it down so you understand it)

Did I "break it down enough" so you "understand it?"



Like I said before, I get how awkward answering directly and candidly would be. I'm pretty sure how your physician, or any competent physician would answer, even if doesn't prove your point about declaring rookies to be far more trustworthy with an important job that Nancy Pelosi does much more more effectively than anyone in that job in the last 50 years.

I see that AOC has shown up to do her job recently, and not skipped the majority of votes since Biden became the Democrats choice for POTUS nominee, unlike other elected officials who have been around for MORE than 30 years, so she's doing great on that basic qualification for "taking the reins," wouldn't you say?

You reeeeeally don't like Speaker Pelosi, I get it. Just owning that one is making judgements based on feelings rather than evidence gives one much more credibility.

[Autumn]

44. It wasn't awkward at all answering your question. I'm fine with a young Dr, that has only a couple

of years experience. If you can't understand that I don't know what to tell you, I can't break it down any clearer than that. I told you that in every post, now you are just haranguing. As for your bullshit claim

You reeeeeally don't like Speaker Pelosi, I get it.

that's a crock of projection. YOU ehrnst don't know me and as for reading people you aren't very good at it. I have always supported Nancy being Speaker of the House, that is something I very much support, just as AOC does. I have criticized her on occasion as I don't march in lock step with anyone, and I have defended her. She's the best damn speaker we have ever had. I won't respond to that nonsense again. Keep your fantasies about what other people think to yourself.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211385320#post59

[ehrnst]

47. How does that square with wanting AOC and the Squad to "take the reins?"

Or your proclaimation that "Fresh ideas are better than 30 years experience" in response to my saying Nancy has more experience?

That wasn't a "fantasy."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13806529






And still stonewalling on the actual question. Must really be uncomfortable to concede an obvious point.

[Autumn]

48. That wasn't your question, and you don't get another. If you're confused about "take the reins"

try google. What I will say is AOC did very well on the floor giving that SOB hell. I'm sure it upset some but that's life

[ehrnst]

50. Actually it was, and you're still trying to avoid answering it

by continuing to post red herrings.

If you're confused about what that means, try google.

Like I said, I can understand why it would be embarassing to concede a point, but not as embarassing as bending over backwards jumping through hoops to deny understanding what the point was.

Seriously.



And in the way of addressing the attempted red herring...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213805350

[Autumn]

51. No ehrnst, your question was :

I suppose you'd prefer a newly minted doc doing surgery on you than someone who has decades of experience, and a record of success?

I answered that question and more.

We're done here.

[ehrnst]

53. Actually, you tried to respond about a GP, not a surgeon, which was the question.

So there's that.

And you dug in when I pointed it out.



Like I said, I get that it's embarassing to concede a point, but sometimes more so to try to continue to double down and resort to attacking a strawman, moving the goalposts, and red herrings. I've tried to explain things in a way that is clear for you, but hurling those logical fallacies is not the response of someone who is secure in their point.

Google if you don't understand those.

You're welcome.

NOW we're done here.

[sheshe2]

55. This is an open discussion board, a Democratic one.

Autumn

48. That wasn't your question, and you don't get another.

It is not for you to say who is allowed to ask questions. However it is your choice to respond...or not.

[Autumn]

58. I made the choice to respond, I pointed out that I answered one and won't answer another.

I never told her she's not allowed to ask questions. She can ask all she want's.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

72. "Fresh ideas are better than 30 years experience"

I took it to mean you don’t care for or respect Pelosi.

Sorry, but that’s how that statement comes across.

[Autumn]

78. Do you know Nancy Pelosi has been in office 23 years? Yes, you took it wrong. I picked a random

number. Nancy never even crossed my mind seeing as how this is a thread about AOC but as usual... Many politicians have been in office well over 30 years. What we are facing is going to take newer ideas and solutions.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

82. I don't think I took your comment wrong.

It just sounds like you’re trashing experienced Democratic luminaries. I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way... we need consummate leaders like Pelosi AND we need idealistic new strong leaders.

[Trueblue Texan]

83. It takes fresh ideas, experience, and MORE...

It takes experience, maturity, integrity, AND fresh ideas as well as allies, intelligence, and open-mindedness. No need to over-simplify this very complex art in using power for the greater good. It's why I do NOT support term-limits: an easy concept to grasp, but not necessarily in the best interest of those who need experienced representation. Furthermore, ideas don't only come from yourself: you can harvest them from constituents, colleagues, and experts in their fields, then make those ideas work using your other qualifications. And the less experience you have, the less you can see around the corners for the problems that may thwart your ideas.

[ehrnst]

85. Indeed. We all want someone very familiar with the road and dangers "holding the reins." (nt)

[StarfishSaver]

121. Very well said.

[ehrnst]

84. You said AOC should "take the reins" - and Speaker Pelosi currently has those reins.

As has been pointed out to you numerous times by various people.

And as you full well knew when you said it. You were less subtle than you thought.

Being disingenuous when called on it doesn't lend one credibility. That's where the "dumb question" you complained about really lies - asking why anyone thought you were getting in a dig at Democratic congressional leadership - which is Pelosi.

You're welcome.

[Autumn]

88. I'm very open about my admiration for AOC and I have been open about supporting Nancy.

I'm also very open about being open to changes. I also have no problem with any young progressive stepping up and taking the reins. They are the future, like it or not. Many have been very vocal about their dislike for AOC and I think they would rather anyone but AOC be in her office or in any leadership, and they have been very open about that. . The way I see it is younger people won't get the experience at leading unless they step up and do it. Don't like my opinion? Ignore me and scroll on by.

You're welcome back to ignore

[ehrnst]

92. "Open to being open...."

unless open to being told that you're not so subtly disparaging a woman who holds the reins of Democratic congressional power.

Ignore away!

[la-trucker]

122. Don't diss Democrats who have fought the fight for decades

and many a time from right leaning districts. It is easy to take positions when one is in a solid blue district. It is infinitely harder when one has a caucus that has a diverse background where "my way or highway" doesn't work.

Just as I stated before, it is easy to take extreme positions from Vermont than from more centrist constituencies.

[Lordquinton]

171. Maybe you should take your own advice

It's also easy to take extreme positions from Berkeley California, Way easier than Vermont.

Your reply actually feels really out of place in this discussion about a Dem from one of the most progressive districts in the country.

[la-trucker]

175. It doesn't seem out of place to me.

In praising Democrat A some here are dissing Democrats B, C, D etc. In this instance, Democrat A is a newbie rookie. My point was clear to those who read the thread above as well.

[George II]

144. Nancy Pelosi took office in the House in April, 1987 - 33 years ago...

Yes, we're going to need newer SOLUTIONS. That's the key word.

[ehrnst]

151. +1000. One need a thorough knowledge of House procedure and the GOP in order to come up with

Wise new solutions.

I find it interesting that some people who dismiss Pelosi as "the old guard" insist that those who are even older and have not had a new idea since they started their career are the "future."

One could get whiplash trying to keep up.

[la-trucker]

120. That is how I took it as well. No respect for Speaker Pelosi at all.

[sheshe2]

66. Interesting point you made, Autumn.

Autumn (38,587 posts)

39. Why would I go to a celebrity doctor? That's a dumb question, and I told you I am fine with

a young, (and to break it down so you understand it) Dr with just a couple of years experience. They go to school for quite a while you know.

You are correct, Drs go to school to study for years.

The timeline can seem daunting. Four years for medical school, a minimum of three years for residency, and a few more if you want to specialize with a fellowship. Combine that with an average starting age of 24 (or 26 for DO—doctor of osteopathic—applicants), and this means the vast majority of medical students don’t become independent physicians until their early 30s.

https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/how-long-does-it-take-to-beceome-a-doctor/

Minimum 7 years without a specialty which is longer.

..................

However a Congressman or woman has no such requirement and no such education.They never studied or took a test to pass. They come in as freshmen and start their education. They listen and they learn as they go. They build alliances which is a must to get their ideas through a Congress and Senate. It is a team effort and no one can stand alone.

That said, I was impressed with AOC's passionate speech. She reiterated what all women have been subject to from the beginning of time. She spoke clearly and is learning to use her voice.

One last thing, perhaps you could take a lesson from AOC and not belittle another woman by saying (quote above) that she, ehrnst, asked a "Dumb question". You can DU better that that.

[Autumn]

146. Why would I be seeing a celebrity Dr? Talking about belittling women and DU ing better sheshe

Last edited Mon Jul 27, 2020, 11:47 AM - Edit history (1)

you might want to spend some of that righteous corrective outrage on someone posting

"I wonder what AOC did to earn Yoho's disrespect?"

When you do that then you can take me to task. Till then?....

[ehrnst]

150. It's still not working.

You understood the metaphor just fine. You just can't admit that you would indeed seek out experience over celebrity/ lack of experience when it came to choosing a surgeon for a procedure, and your GP would absolutely agree, and that would mean that I had a point about the value of experience in handling a serious situation. Which Pelosi has in spades, more so than rookies, no matter much a media star they may be.

The number of responses that you have gotten that state how your post came across is evidence that, intentional or not, that you were disssing Pelosi and saying that her experience was not as valuable as "new ideas" from those who have more celebrity.

What one usually does is say, "Well, I've learned something here, and clearly I didn't make my point well, thank you for pointing it out, I'll be more cognizant of that next time" instead of doubling down, which makes any claim that your post was misunderstood less, not more plausible.

You're welcome.



Now, as you said so many replies ago, "We're done."

[George II]

153. That question isn't "belittling women", it appears to be an honest request for information....

It acknowledged that Yoho was disrespectful, and the questioner (not me) wants to know why.

[Autumn]

155. Right...

[ehrnst]

157. It's great to see you agree!

[George II]

158. Glad you agree. Unless you don't, in which case you let us know how that question "belittles women"?

[ehrnst]

161. You may want to try something else...

Apparently George won't defend a strawman someone else sets up and attacks any more than I will.

[George II]

145. I believe that's the first time in my life I've seen a woman accused of "discounting all women"!

[ehrnst]

147. Well, when one has no argument left, often one sets up a strawman to attack to save face.

It's also the tactic, along with the Red Herring, of those who have painted themselves into a corner trying to deny the obvious, that they thought was subtle.

[TexasTowelie]

52. I agree with you.

Nancy Pelosi is no rookie and she has a lot of sense. Simply the best!!!

[Gothmog]

81. Yes Speaker Pelosi is amazing

[George II]

54. Who is "no rookie"? Customarily a person in his/her first term is referred to as a "rookie".

We have about 40 rookies.

[StarfishSaver]

94. Actually, as a first-term Member, she is exactly a rookie

[Autumn]

97. Actually, rookie is a sports term. AOC is a freshman. If anyone takes over as leader after Nancy I

want it to be AOC.

[StarfishSaver]

98. And "freshman" is term for high school and college students that, like "rookie" is now used in other

contexts.

AOC is a rookie.

And, as much as some folk adore her, I don't think she has what it takes to be the House leader. And I doubt she would ever want the job. That's not a knock against her. She's shown herself to be a great new Member, smart, savvy and committed. But different people bring different skills to the House and her skillset is not to be a Speaker, which takes another type of skill that I don't think she necessarily has. A Speaker can't be a maverick but must be a strategist, a conciliator, doing most of their work behind the scenes, pulling their punches and often keeping their mouths shut when some others would love to engage and give back as good as they got. I sincerely doubt that AOC is interested in that kind of role.

Among other things, she'd have to pull back on most of her other activity that she seems to love and is very effective at - for example, she'd no longer serve on Committees. She'd have to spend most of her time presiding, assigning jobs, counting heads and votes, cajoling and negotiating with Members, on the road raising money for her Caucus members and the party. She couldn't be as blunt and honest as she wants to be, couldn't call out Members she disagrees with in the way she does now, and would constantly have to walk fine lines while not stepping on the wrong toes.

Again, so no one flies off the handle, this is NOT a criticism or diminution of AOC and her capabilities. I would say this about many people I admire. For example, I worshiped the ground that John Lewis walked on, but I doubt he would have made an effective Speaker of the House. Elizabeth Warren is a badass Senator, but she would not be a good Senate Majority or Minority Leader.

Everyone brings different talents and aptitudes to politics. AOC surely has brought a lot. But that doesn't mean she is suited for any and every role on the Hill.

[Autumn]

99. People grow into things and IMO she has shown that she has that ability and more. nt

[StarfishSaver]

104. She certainly may have the ability, but I doubt she has the interest or inclination

And I think her fans would be deeply disappointed if she did take on a leadership role like that because she'd have to give up much of what they love about her.

Trust me - the very things you love about AOC would be lost if she were to become Speaker, a role in which she could no longer be the firebrand she is now but would represent the entire Caucus, not just her own interests and priorities That role is neither suited for her nor does it seem to interest her at all - and is definitely not the best use of her skills and talents. She's smart enough to know where her strengths, aptitudes and interest lie.

[Autumn]

105. I disagree but I'm not here to argue with you, I'm just here to voice my opinion. nt

[la-trucker]

118. She is a rookie. She has not passed a single peace of legislation that she introduced.

In order to pass anything, one has to learn the art of a compromise and people who stubbornly stick to one point of view usually don't get very far.

[SpaceNeedle]

123. I love hyperboles, especially Sunday nights.

[Autumn]

139. Don't we all. I like them on Mondays. nt

[JonLP24]

89. I think AOC has the right ideas

I won't criticize Pelosi but the criticisms of AOC are considered fair here.

All the criticism of AOC is considered fair but one word about Pelosi.

The far left probably don't like her moderate policies and men aren't the only ones on the "far left".

[la-trucker]

119. Perhaps right ideas for twitter and sycophants

but not for the nation as a whole.

[ehrnst]

156. No, Pelosi is criticized daily here on DU.

There are many who consider very effective Democratic legislators and leaders, especially women, to be somehow complicit because they do not make things difficult enough for "the enemy," in getting progressive legislation implemented, and therefore not progressive at all.

Those who don't vilify any and all Republicans that they work with are considered "moderate" or "neoliberal" as a perjorative by the far left, usually by the men in the far left, who often have an "all or nothing" "Black and white" way of looking at things.


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/04/the-nancy-pelosi-problem/554048/

[betsuni]

159. +1

[betsuni]

75. ....

[GeorgiaPeanut]

116. There are no "fresh ideas"

Things that sound good to a twitter audience are not automatically good ideas. They have to be workable and passable in the house and senate. Otherwise they sound like every pageant contestant's "world peace."

Some may go for it though but no realist would.

[betsuni]

176. Yes, there are no "fresh ideas."

Anyone who thinks this doesn't know history.

[Gothmog]

80. The Democratic Party is so lucky to have a leader like Speaker Pelosi

Speaker Pelosi is truly amazing

[George II]

45. Our current Speaker and Committee Chairs are doing a great job.

[Autumn]

46. Did I say they weren't George? No I did not. My post was about AOC, the squad and the future. nt

[George II]

49. You said give them the reins. The only "reins" available are the Speakership or Comm Chairs.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

60. Some people will be gone in a few short years and I think it drives them nuts...

.... life will go on with strong Progressive women of color at the helm. Especially when they advocated for a right wing dirt bag to take her place.

[Autumn]

61. That's a fact. They are the future of this country and the party. It's their future and their world

I'm happy to see them taking charge and even happier knowing AOC won't take no shit from no one. She's proved that time and time again.

[TexasTowelie]

64. Although Yoho apologized to AOC, I wonder if his feelings about her changed

or if AOC's refusal of Yoho's apology served to validate the words that he expressed about her. Regardless of what Democrats think about AOC, I think that everyone will have to wait to determine whether AOC gained anything beyond media attention from this brouhaha.

[NurseJackie]

74. I do not think so.

I do not think so. It's one thing for a politician to express the sentiments and raw emotions of the far-left elements of the Democratic party... but it's quite another thing to be able to govern effectively when rookie politicians lack a willingness to compromise and seek out areas with mutual benefit. The "all or nothing" approach and the "my way or the highway" philosophy is one that simply creates more stagnation.

All I'm trying to say is that if a politician claims to be "progress-ive" then that politician (no matter who she or he may be) should be willing to do the things, and make the hard choices, and engage in the "give-and-take" that actually leads to (ahem) PROGRESS!

These are the things that are learned through experience, or a willingness to show respect and watch and listen. Nancy Pelosi deserves respect, not scorn, not ridicule, not ageist insults that we continue to hear from certain elements. She understands how things work and she knows how to get her message across while maintaining her dignity and decorum. Nancy has the perfect temperament for her position. She's no bull-in-a-china-shop... she's not careless. She draws from her EXPERIENCE. She's thoughtful and calculated, and that's just what we need.

Nancy Pelosi is the best. We're lucky to have her.

[ehrnst]

90. +1000

[BlancheSplanchnik]

138. 👍🏾

[GeorgiaPeanut]

124. And some people boo a great Democrat, Hillary Clinton

That Hillary Clinton who won the Democratic nomination by over 3 million votes, was a senator, a SOS and first lady, fending off attacks from the right all her adult life.

She was boo'ed .... is that considered a "new idea?"

[R B Garr]

131. Didn't we also hear that enough 2016 voters would be dead

by 2020 so that Bernie would win? Life did indeed go on, but it looks like even more undead voted for the experienced traditional candidate.

[PandoraAwakened]

178. So very true.

You are so right, Hassin Bin Sober. Personally, I thought it was absolutely knee-slapping hilarious when the AOC stalkers started cos-playing online as "rah-rah cheerleaders" for a woman who had switched her Rethug party affiliation and moved out of her Trump Towers apartment into AOC's district just to run in the Democratic primary held there a few weeks ago. Honestly, you couldn't make this shit up if you tried!

Mind you, this woman who tried to primary AOC using Trumphumper money was previously a right-wing media pundit who's been screeching on teeeee-veeeee for years about eliminating Medicare and Social Security, along with about a hundred other positions antithetical to the Democratic platform. She even penned her crazy talk into a shitty book, which anyone not spending all their time immersed in perverse anti-AOC fantasies would have known about before inserting foot in mouth.

I mean, seriously, that was some truly comical shit watching the online AOC stalkers advocate for a candidate who would take away the very benefits that allow them to prolong their final days on Earth spent screaming at their keyboards about AOC. You gotta admit, that's some kind of f***ed up IRONY for the ages there!

Funny Factoid: Those who aggressively advocated for this woman to take AOC's place are the very same persons who go on and on and on and on about their so-called reverence to "experience," as if they think they just said something "wise" in their infantile dissing of AOC for the 11,111th time.

At least now, the anti-AOC posse has gone on record as to exactly what type of "experience" it is that they actually do support: Apparently for them, someone who made big bucks screeching right-wingnut screeds on teeeee-veeeee while living in Trump Towers qualifies as having an adequate resume. [Wait a minute...why does this sound so familiar? Never mind...just having a deja vu moment I can't quite put my finger on.]

These people...harping on and on and on and on about perceived "maturity," while unhealthily spending more time chasing every little online comment made about AOC than a quarantined teenager playing video games.

These people...yammering on and on and on and on about supposed "wisdom" when they themselves prove to be quite easily conned into becoming unwitting mouthpieces for the Orange Dotard.

These people. Yep, got it. Prime examples themselves of just the kind of experience, wisdom, and maturity they boo-hoo about AOC not having. Mmmm-hmm. Got it. Yeah, no thanks. I think we can all safely take a hard pass on the fantasy-world, role-playing version of "experience," "wisdom," and "maturity" that they keep blah, blah, blahing about as an excuse to live out their tired, old AOC tropes to the point of creepy obsession.

Needless to say, the candidate that the anti-AOC posse shamelessly shook their dusty pom-poms for got her ass whooped by AOC in that primary 70% to 30%---WOMP!!. And, once again, the Internet's AOC stalkers, who also generally suffer from narcissistic "last-wordism," were gobsmacked into silence for one brief moment, just like they were with this latest AOC news wherein the Congresswoman stood up for all women on the floor of the House, calling out the mysoginists for who they really are.

Whenever there's really nothing overtly negative they can say about AOC, such as with this latest Yohaha kerfuffle, it generally takes the "usual suspects" about two days to try to figure out how to turn any given positive conversation about AOC into a silly AOC vs. Pelosi narrative existing only in their own minds.

Sigh...these guys still haven't gotten the memo that Pelosi herself is a big supporter of AOC and other Progressive Congresswomen, as evidenced by the committee assignments she signs off on for them to sit on...something that rarely occurred for female freshmen in the old patriarchal days of Congress, days soon to be but a distant point in the rearview mirror.

I don't know, I haven't really read through most of the comments here. Has the tread-worn "Pelosi diversionary tactic" happened yet in this thread? If not, it will...wait for it...wait for it...yawn.

[R B Garr]

180. Actually, that whole primary process forced AOC to admit

Last edited Tue Jul 28, 2020, 09:47 PM - Edit history (1)

she had to vote for Biden. As another great DUer said...”welcome to the Establishment.”

[egduj]

108. On point!

[DenverJared]

117. ...

[Lordquinton]

172. They are the future

They are the future of the country and the party, anyone who doesn't agree with that doesn't understand how time works.

Sad how palpable the hate for her is, shows just how strong she truly is.

[betsuni]

174. Every young generation is the future of the country.

Then they get old, that's how time works. "Sad how palpable the hate for her is, shows just how strong she truly is." LOL. More of this "The Establishment will stop at nothing to stop me" nonsense.

[alwaysinasnit]

13. K&R Thanks for posting.

[Martin Eden]

14. K&R for R.P.

Nobody else spews such F-bombs so eloquently in the pursuit of truth and justice.

[Pepsidog]

15. And push comes to shove and AOC can kick his foul-mouthed ass.

[pandr32]

16. Good! Please proceed AOC and others.

[Ponietz]

17. Righteous

[Kitchari]

18. K&R n/t

[Cozmo]

19. Thank You! Well said.

[cayugafalls]

20. Kick and Rec...nt

[cp]

21. AOC's speech was a thing of beauty and power

Our new congress critter (hopefully will be voted out on Nov. 3) campaigned solely with photos of his wife and three daughters. He did not run on his long record in the state legislature. Spoiler alert: it's rotten.

[smirkymonkey]

22. K&R

[tazmaniac]

23. "Nevertheless she persisted" -- AOC is right in there persisting!!

[demmiblue]

24. It is so nice to be able to read posts about AOC where I can actually read the responses.

Several of the most vocal AOC haters don't even live in this country.

[blueseas]

25. AOC

Thank you.


He lied even when the there were witnesses. SMH

[patphil]

26. Over 50% of the adult population of the USA is female.

Yet only around 25% of Congress is female, and only around 22% are non-white.
It's still pretty much a white, male show.

This is an intolerable situation in this day and age. We need more minorities, and a lot more women to put the US legislature into a better balance with the make-up of the nation.
Ted Yoho is symptomatic of the problem we have here. I guess that since he isn't running for reelection he didn't feel any constraint on his distain for AOC.

[lunatica]

28. I drew my do not cross this line stance when I was about

the same age Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is now. It was simple. You don’t have to like me, but you will respect me.

It’s not hard when you’re smarter than the thugs who insult you. That includes bosses too.

[TexasTowelie]

57. Respect is a quality that is earned.

I have plenty of acquaintances that I like because of their personality traits, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I respect that person if they demonstrate incompetence or they have other personality traits that I do not admire. It reminds me of the episode of South Park where Cartman pretends that he is a law enforcement officer and he tells anyone that he encounters to "respect my authority." Respect is not earned by issuing a command.

[lunatica]

62. Respect is more than just liking someone.

If people who would be your enemies respect you, it’s earned.

[TexasTowelie]

63. I guess that the question becomes

whether Rep. Yoho respects AOC more after this recent altercation than he did previously? While I haven't been staying on top of this story over the past few days because of other distractions (doctors appointments, assisting my brother with his job, etc.), I suspect that deep down Rep. Yoho hasn't found any additional respect for AOC and he may actually resent her more than he did previously.

[Kali]

68. he is the one who doesn't deserve any respect

and that is exactly what she gave him. who gives a shit about what he thinks? he demonstrated his position (at least) twice and we should take him at that.

[TexasTowelie]

69. So in conclusion, neither representative respects the other and nothing was earned by either.

Democrats will cheer AOC and Republicans will jeer her. The incident and its aftermath reminds me of grade school spats which is why I didn't follow the story very closely. I fail to see what either representative gained with the brutal honesty other than the possible exception that each representative now knows what the other representative thinks about him/her.

I definitely abhor Yoho's lack of decorum, but how does this spat benefit the constituents of either representative?

[DFW]

76. You're right. It doesn't.

Yoho's constituents will cheer him on, and AOC's constituents knew she was too smart to take Yoho's bait.

Plus ça change..........

[lunatica]

96. AOC has entered the lack of respect shown to women into the

Congressional record. As a result quite a few women Representatives have weighed in on the issue of women being disrespected in a singularly odious way, by men.

It’s something you’ve missed by not following the story. AOC did not attack him the way he attacked her. She spoke out about the way women in general are treated. Her message was about using civil language and how the culture of insulting women needs to change. It is now in part of our Congressional history. I assume you would agree with this if you knew the facts. If not then you’re in the wrong place here.

And she has garnered respect for what she’s said and done. Even the most bitter misogynist Congressmen will think before being quite so crude in public again. That is also respect. Shutting up and backing off is a form of respect.

My respect for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has grown. If you don’t understand what I’m saying then we aren’t speaking the same language.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

179. She didn't call him a "fucking bitch," though. So there's that.

This false equivalence between Yoho and AOC is kind of gross on a Democratic site.

[Autumn]

181. It's disgusting, but it's AOC. Some seem to think she deserved it.

[LanternWaste]

113. I believe disrespect is a quality to be earned...

I believe disrespect is a quality to be earned, while respect itself is the standard we afford everyone until they illustrate otherwise (Plutarch, Parallel Lives and Kant's Critique of Pure Reason).

But I realize that bumper stickers and fortune cookies are much more accessible.

[TexasTowelie]

114. In that case, I wonder what AOC did to earn Yoho's disrespect?

I also distinguish between courtesy and respect. I view politeness, courtesy, and trust are to be given, then it is incumbent on the other person to perform to expectations to earn my respect or to earn my disrespect.

[melman]

125. You wonder what she did to earn his disrespect?

That is a hell of a thing to wonder.

[TexasTowelie]

126. I just learned

that male giraffes assert dominance by trying to trip each other, very slowly.

[melman]

127. That's very nice

Would you like to know what I just learned?

[TexasTowelie]

128. No.

[melman]

129. Yeah

I think that's probably for the best.

[la-trucker]

168. I can't decide on the key word there.

Is it "dominance", "trip" or "giraffe?" Any suggestions would be helpful.

[betsuni]

177. I think the key word is "slowly."

[George II]

142. Interesting.

[progressoid]

130. Uh...it seems like you're implying that she deserved it?

[TexasTowelie]

132. Why don't you read post #69 again

where I said, "I definitely abhor Yoho's lack of decorum?"

Does that statement imply that I believe AOC deserved those remarks?

[progressoid]

135. And later you said, "I wonder what AOC did to earn Yoho's disrespect?"

What SHE did.

to EARN Yoho's disrespect.

Your abhorrence of his lack of decorum doesn't negate the implication that this was something she brought on. Do ya see how your statement looks like victim blaming?

[melman]

133. +1

[TexasTowelie]

134. .

[melman]

137. .

[Autumn]

140. That was like asking what a rape victim was wearing.

[George II]

141. ?

[Autumn]

143. You're confused George? When a woman is revealing a man calling her a "fucking bitch"

and a man comments "I wonder what AOC did to earn Yoho's disrespect?" I consider that to be right up there with a man asking what was a woman wearing when she was raped. Disgusting victim blaming.

To be clear, I don't consider the Republican piece of shit Yoho calling AOC a "fucking bitch" to be disrespect. I consider it to be abuse and verbal assault. That shouldn't have to be explained.

"I wonder what AOC did to earn Yoho's disrespect?"

[George II]

149. Not confused at all, Autumn.

[progressoid]

148. Yep.

And she was just supposed to accept his non-apology? No thanks.

Good for her for standing her ground.

[Autumn]

154. AOC has shown what she is made of time after time. Just looking at the people that hate her

proves to me what she is and what she is capable of. They are scared shitless of her.

I think it was Oscar Wilde who said "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." Looking at the people who hate her just shows me I'm in the right camp and taking the right road.

[Danascot]

29. The great thing is AOCs words will follow this little bitch for the rest of his life

He has so few other accomplishments it's the only event of note in his life. It will be mentioned in his obit.

It should be on his gravestone: Owned by AOC.

[bucolic_frolic]

31. Fuck the Patriarchy's a nice slogan

[PandoraAwakened]

32. Old, racist, white men gobsmacked into silence for one blessed day!

Hilarious that not a single one of those decrepit Congressmen belonging to the party of the Grand Old Perverts (GOP) had a single thing to say all day after AOC's epic slapdown on the floor of the House of Representatives.

Funnier still, I couldn't help but notice that the "usual suspects" who live out their own perverse fantasies by stalking AOC online haven't dared to vomit up their typical claptrap on any of the many posts praising AOC's eloquent defense of women everywhere.

Hmmm...looks like those guys are so gobsmacked at suddenly having their vocal cords screeching like Minnie Mouse that they can't even force their itty-bitty fingers to hit the like button in support of mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, and girlfriends everywhere---including their own. Very telling, indeed...

Alas, I hear the pain of being kicked in a certain place only lasts a few hours to a few days at most, depending on severity. So I guess we can expect the AOC stalker patrol to be back up and running in 3, 2, 1...

[LittleGirl]

41. We need 100 women like that

in our government. The men have screwed us literally. It’s time we took over.
I know we can do better than this. Bravo AOC.
Shero!

[ProfessorGAC]

42. K&R!

[Evolve Dammit]

43. Let's hope it inspires others to speak truth to bullshit misogyny and white privilege male dominance

This needs to end NOW. Same with the systemic, institutionalized racism. God I am embarrassed for what we are.

[JudyM]

70. This. She demonstrated righteous leadership, calling him out. It was a direct challenge to sexism.

[niyad]

56. KNR

[manhattan123]

59. So many pro-AOC posts lately...

It must be driving her haters on this board crazy. lol

[ehrnst]

101. Who are these "haters on this crazy board" you're referring to?

I've seen several, but the hate was not directed towards AOC.

Links?

[manhattan123]

163. Where did I say "haters on this crazy board"?

Link?

[ehrnst]

164. Sorry - Haters on this Board Crazy...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13807492



Do you have links to these haters' posts to back that up?

Thanks.

[George II]

102. "Haters"? Exactly who are you referring to? That's a pretty rash accusation.

[Celerity]

115. [phone]

[ehrnst]

165. Do you have links to these "haters" you agree are on this board?

Manhattan123 hasn't been able to.

Thanks!

[Celerity]

166. To paraphrase Pete, I am not a master fisherwoman, but I know

bait when I see it.

[manhattan123]

167. Huh? Do you think I kept links of various posts I've seen over the months?

Who would do that?

I just know whenever there's a post about AOC, some of the same screen names show up repeatedly bashing her on a regular basis. She didn't open her field office soon enough!! She didn't reference Hillary or Nancy Pelosi in her floor speech about Yoho! She's going to lose her primary!

If you don't see these post on a regular baiss, you aren't paying attention.

But, yeah, sorry, I don't spend enough time thinking about this issue to have kept links as I went along.

[ehrnst]

173. There is a search feature on DU.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=search

You can enter a phrase you remember and even a date range.

If you replied to one of those posts, you can find your response under the "my posts" tab.

Let us know what you find.

[R B Garr]

169. +1, that poster said the same things on another thread and

when I posted that it’s also the same names using this as an excuse to talk about other DUers — there was a lot of anger for many days. It was maybe about a year ago, but most of the comments are about other posters.

[zentrum]

65. The Squad is the future of the Party and of America

Rude nails it.

[NurseJackie]

103. I doubt it. I'm just not seeing it.

All I'm saying is that perhaps they'll be "contributors" and "participants" ... but nothing as grandiose as "the future of the Party and America".

[zentrum]

106. Bowman vs. the powerful Engel

The people by the 1000’s in the street are saying that change must happen. Not a return to pre-BLM and pre-covid politics. Plus, young progressives world-wide are organizing in a very focused way. The Sunshine Movement for example.

From The Washington Post in June:

One telling result was Jamaal Bowman’s rout of incumbent Rep. Eliot Engel in New York’s 16th Congressional District. Bowman, an African American public-school educator for the past 20 years, was recruited to run by Justice Democrats, the same group that propelled Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s upset victory over Joe Crowley in 2018. Like Ocasio-Cortez, Bowman embraced the full progressive agenda, from racial justice to Medicare-for-all to the Green New Deal. Democratic establishment stalwarts rushed to endorse Engel…..seeking his 17th term in office. Nancy Pelosi and Charles E. Schumer backed him; so, too, did Hillary Clinton, in her first public endorsement in a Democratic House race this cycle. Bowman was embraced by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, as well as key progressive groups. With the choice clear, Democratic voters swept Bowman to victory.

Have you ever heard Bowman talk? He's the real deal. Another natural, like AOC. She's in her first term and the whole county already knows who she is, because she's so effective. Also, do you have any idea how entrenched and old guard Engel was? These kind of elections, including the Squad, will turn out like this more and more. IMO.

[ehrnst]

107. I also heard that about Nader back in 2000. (nt)

[zentrum]

111. Not saying it will happen overnight.

The future is not necessarily in 100 days. It is building. Not without set-backs, but on its way.

The times today are not the same as when Nader ran. Technology, BLM and Covid-19, student debt, the health care and coming eviction crises are creating very, very different demands than the party has faced before.

[George II]

152. In the upcoming MI and MN primaries, it looks as though half the "squad" may be replaced....

....by other Democrats in the November election. Another one, Ayanna Pressley, has also distanced herself from that group and is concentrating on her job of representing her District.

[melman]

160. "Another one, Ayanna Pressley, has also distanced herself from that group"

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[George II]

162. Yes, what I said is true. She's a Congresswoman and....

....a LOYAL Democrat, keyword being LOYAL.

[greytdemocrat]

67. And...

What if Trump wins???

[JudyM]

71. K&R.

[voteearlyvoteoften]

73. Hell yeh

AOC!!

[FakeNoose]

79. Rude Pundit's righteous rant - this is awesome

I'm admiring this rant as much as I enjoyed AOC's slapdown.

Babylonsister, you're on a roll too!

[ismnotwasm]

86. She stands on the shoulders of giants

That was one speech I listen too again and again.

[Malmsy]

87. Fantastic response. I agree with Howard Dean. (eom)

[gulliver]

91. Agree...as long as it's clear that Democratic men are "non-patriarchal" and on the good side.

The problem is some, perhaps most, Republican men. All Dem men are entitled to the assumption that they are innocent of it. Being against patriarchy is a Dem core value.

[ehrnst]

93. Many on the far left are very supportive of a white straight patriarchal power structure.

Last edited Sun Jul 26, 2020, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Especially those who howl about "identity politics," which apparently means attention on any issue that does not directly affect white straight men, which means any issue that isn't solve by economic means.

[ismnotwasm]

95. Yeah

I still like to point out that the “revolution” is Social Justice. That’s where it starts

[Vivienne235729]

100. her speech was long overdue and music to my ears.

[yardwork]

109. I love this.