I do not know the origin of 'Defund the Police' - but it is a Loser.

[alittlelark]

I looked in a thesaurus for the word 'fix' nothing good, our language betrays us at this moment.

We are at a fulcrum and WORDS MATTER !!!

Someone smarter than I Needs to come up with a better way to express the fact that our Policing System MUST CHANGE !

This site has some brilliant minds - time to use them.

[Bettie]

1. The problem is that

people have been talking "reform" for years and all that happens is cops become more militarized and more violent every year

Reform is a loser because literally everyone knows that it means put up some posters and pretend there isn't a problem, then ratchet up the violence on the part of cops, because they are butt-hurt about the posters suggesting they be a little less horrible to people.

[alittlelark]

4. We NEED a meme, a slogan

Yeah, it sux that we have to condense a million words into 10-20, but this is the world we are inhabiting. Our limited vocabulary sux - But I KNOW that SOMEONE - likely on this site - can DO IT !

[Green Line]

2. It's an absolute loser

[appalachiablue]

3. De-militarize is more like it

[alittlelark]

7. It is the best I have heard

But it brings up too many 'military' images. Ppl want to see the military as 'always defended and defending'.

There is a love of soldiers defending our country (many in our family).

It just does not work for those 10-25%

[appalachiablue]

21. I realize the devotion to the military, but this overlapping

is prohibited and many know it. The two services have clear distinctions and roles, for good reason. Maybe not demilitarize, rebuild is one of the best terms. I'm the descendant of US LE and military, 5 wars that I know of, Rev. War through Korea.

[cayugafalls]

5. Rebuild, Retrain, Rethink.

Rebuild from the ground up.

Retrain all police using latest techniques on deescalation and compassionate policing.

Rethink community policing and the interaction with the people.

[alittlelark]

9. That is an interesting frame

I have not heard of it.

I like it.

I think a lotta ppl would Like It !!

[cayugafalls]

13. Thank you.

I've been working on it ever since I had to defend my stance on defund the police and it got me thinking how hard it was to defend it.

Once I analyzed what I was saying about defund the police, I ended up breaking it down to those three principles. Each one has many more layers of depth to them and I am working on fleshing them out more.

[alittlelark]

16. Your reply was exactly what I was hoping for !!!

[alittlelark]

12. You should re-post this tomm morning

I have never heard the 3 R's before. My guess is most have not (?).

We need to HEAR and SEE valuable info.

Sunday night may have me hyped, but not 80% of the site.

[cayugafalls]

17. I'll see if I can finish it tonight.

I'm kind of sleepy and have a ton of work to do for tomorrow, but you got me jazzed and focused, so I'll try and put together what I have and write the OP tonight so I can post it in the AM.

Thanks again for the encouragement.

[alittlelark]

18. You Rock !!

[appalachiablue]

22. Rebuild is best, the most positive, and popular.

[smirkymonkey]

29. I like it!

I think that would be something almost everyone could get on board with.

[cayugafalls]

35. Thank you.

[misanthrope]

38. This is a good train of thought

I told a young colleague back in May that the movement needs to avoid the "D" words and stick with "R" words.

The first group tends to have a negative connotation in our culture. Destroy, disintegrate, disassemble, denigrate and others could be inserted by opposition as a way to decry (there's another) the ideas. Plus, it's too easy for opponents to voice something along the lines "They say they want to 'defund the police,' well, I'm here to 'defend the police.'"

Words like those you list have a more positive connotation, like cultivating growth. Renew, refresh, rehabilitate, reform, and so on. It brings to mind springtime, hope, reinvigoration.

Electoral politics is essentially advertising and language matters.

[cayugafalls]

42. Thank you. I like your reasoning. I expanded on it this morning in an OP.

It did not get much traction, but at least I put my ideas out there. I'm no expert by far, just an old dude. lol.

https://democraticunderground.com/100213813748

Thanks again for the kind words.

[judeling]

6. Unburden the police

Same concept from a positive aspect.

[Cha]

8. And, Joe Biden said he did NOT want to "defund police"

& trump's LIES and says he does.

[live love laugh]

10. I agree it's a loser. How it caught hold and who initiated it

I would bet are the same provocateurs currently reigniting protests and fomenting violence.

Words matter. I don’t agree though that DU should necessarily be the source of those words.

[alittlelark]

24. My guess is it was Planted

It is Lame and Stoopid - but memes travel at the speed of light

[live love laugh]

25. Yup it's not just "fake news" anymore.

Boy do I miss sanity, facts, reason and truth.

[misanthrope]

11. "Reform"

All of its connotations would apply.

[alittlelark]

15. Those w/ B/W thinking see the word 'REFORM'

and think 'change' and they get all cognitive dissonancy.

[Hoyt]

14. trump is running "defund police" ads often in my rube state. Don't know how

effective they are; but, that and racism/bigoted seem to be his campaign’s thrust.

[California_Republic]

19. +1

[Awsi Dooger]

20. Polish the Police

Best I can come up with on quick exam. There needs to be a positive connotation, acknowledging the entirety as beneficial but sorely lacking and sometimes ugly as end product.

Polish sounds best among the handful I considered

[Poiuyt]

23. It's kind of like Antifa

Why didn't they say "Anti-fascist"? No one would be able to demonize that name.

Democrats are not as good as republicans when it comes to linguistics.

[alittlelark]

26. Good Point.

[stopdiggin]

27. It is a loser

and when you have to start "explaining" to people about the nuances, and that it actually is intended to increase services ... You've lost the game before you even started. It's the world we live in. And that's just the sorry truth.

[quickesst]

28. The person or persons....

.... who originated the term "defund the police" are absolutely devoid of a yield or stop sign between the brain and the mouth. Unfortunately, politically speaking, the damage has been done.

[qwlauren35]

32. Hold on.

The people who came up with it are NOT POLITICAL. They are activists. Young black activists trying to find a meaningful solution to an unacceptable situation.

It was not come up with to sink the Democratic Party. It's just that the Trump campaign has latched onto it.

"Defunding the police" has real merit as a concept. However, it's a disastrous political slogan. IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE A POLITICAL SLOGAN.

"Black Lives Matter" was not meant to be a political slogan either. It took George Floyd for white people to be able to understand it. But the slogan was developed in 2013 when Trayvon Martin's killer was acquitted. NOT POLITICAL.

This is just like the immigrant caravan that got all of the news in 2018. Those immigrants weren't trying to derail the Democratic Party. They were seeking asylum. But the Republicans spun it.

Please, please, please don't think that "Defund the Police" was developed as a political slogan, or to hand the Republican party a brush for tarring and feathering the Democrats.

Nobody on the right came up with it. It is a meaningful, viable concept. Unfortunately, like all three-word slogans, it's easy to put a negative spin on it.

I can understand slamming the phrase. I even understand that the concept may seem scary. But please do some research on how it came about instead of thinking that it was born from some right wing conspiracy to bring down the Democratic Party.

[quickesst]

37. first of all....

..... you need to stop skewing my words to fit your narrative. I never said the phrase was born from some right-wing conspiracy to bring down the Democratic Party. What I said was, and I can't believe I'm having to explain this, is that the person who came up with the slogan did not think about how it would be used by the right-wing against Democrats politically.

Quote:
"It was not come up with to sink the Democratic Party. It's just that the Trump campaign has latched onto it."

That's pretty much exactly what I said. I never said it was come up with to sink the Democratic Party. It was simply not well thought out. I think it's time more people focused more on the substance of the fight we are in, and less on skewing and taking out of context the words of others in order to build a false sense of credibility among fellow Democrats.

I stand by the words of my original post that the slogan "Defund The Police" should never have been spoken much less displayed on a sign, and I don't give a rat's ass who first came up with it because it is irrelevant.


Quote:
"Unfortunately, like all three-word slogans, it's easy to put a negative spin on it."

This is the one thing I do agree with because that's exactly what the right-wing did.

Just remember, I devote a lot of thought to any statement I post. I am not prone to shooting from the hip, and I always make sure I am ready to defend what I write before I post it.

On edit:
This is one hell of a wishy-washy thread. On the one hand you have people like yourself stating the slogan was not come up with to hurt the Democratic Party. Simple logic tells me you don't believe it was born from the right wing, otherwise it would have been created for just that purpose, to hurt the Democratic Party.
On the other hand, you have people in this thread who are convinced it actually was born from the right wing, and is being used against the Democratic Party. So I ask, which one is it?

[smirkymonkey]

30. K&R

Totally agree. I'm just wondering if we can walk this one back at this point.

[cayugafalls]

34. I think if you can get consensus on a new message then anything can happen.

The rethugs do it all the time.

If all hands are on deck and constantly reiterate the new message, then it will be fairly easy. The big problem is getting buy in on all fronts for a new message. Our party is diverse and we have a lot of individuals. Sometimes getting a standard message to stick is hard due to not all following lock step like the rethugs. This is a good thing for our party and it is why we are so diverse. We don't want a bunch of yes men. But messaging can be difficult if we can't get buy in on a new message.

[KentuckyWoman]

31. It is inaccurate.

I have seen no one seriously call for completely shutting down the police. My hunch is the call to defund the police came from propaganda to discredit any progressive leader who dares to mention out loud more training and less tear gas might be an option.

[Jimbo S]

39. Madison, WI

The organizations behind Madison's BLM movement truly wish to abolish the department.

[KentuckyWoman]

51. We had a city do that and pay the county to provide coverage instead.

It turned out to be very cost effective. But (the big but) the entire county had less than 20000 people at the time.

[qwlauren35]

33. Not the first time.

Of course, this is not the first Black-created protest slogan that has caused such debate. “Black Lives Matter” wasn’t the first either. Current debates around “Defund the Police” reminds me of an even older contested political slogan—Black Power.

On June 16, 1966, police in Greenwood, Mississippi, arrested Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee chairman Stokely Carmichael after a dispute over allowing participants in James Meredith’s March Against Fear to set up a campsite at a local school. After leaving jail, Carmichael declared in an electrifying speech, “What we gonna start sayin’ now is Black Power!” While many ideas associated with Black Power (i.e., racial pride and solidarity, self-determination, cultural integrity) had circulated among activists for decades, Carmichael’s call for Black Power launched a new debate about civil rights, Black politics, and liberation.

The response from critics was quick after Carmichael’s speech. Less than a month later, NAACP President Roy Wilkins denounced the slogan, calling it “antiwhite” and suggesting that it “leads to black death.” The goals of Black Power—and the strategies for achieving them—remained too vague for some. Black leftist Robert L. Allen remarked on its limitations, concluding, “revolutionary rhetoric is no substitute for a thorough analysis upon which a program can be constructed.” Martin Luther King Jr. found “Black Power” too militant. However, in an excerpt of his final book published in June 1967 in the New York Times, King argued for Black Americans to cultivate and exercise their collective power as workers, consumers, voters, and political leaders through massive civil disobedience—a clear engagement of Black Power ideas.

https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/summer-2020/defund-the-police-protest-slogans-and-the-terms-for-debate

[tonedevil]

47. Funny how that works...

it's never the right time or the right words.

[Raine]

36. Totally agree. nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

40. The engine of the current progress is the abolitionist movement. I'm not interested in holding them

back.

[Mz Pip]

41. Reform, restructure

Rebuild, reorganize.

Defund is a not a winning word for us.

[HotTeaBag]

43. You're right.

Any slogan that needs a paragraph of explanation after it to let people know what it 'really' means is never a good choice.

[sparky999]

44. This issue worries me

We've got to be united going into November. This issue could divide the party and keep some voters home.

[SoonerPride]

45. No it won't

[alittlelark]

53. .....

U ROCK !!

[tonedevil]

46. Defund the police by 33.8%...

the problem seems to be many people think of defund as take all funds. I have seen Abolish the Police and I do think that is probably extreme, but taking away a significant portion of their funding is exactly what needs to happen.

[melman]

48. This is the thing

It is exactly what needs to happen and that's why insisting it be called something else makes no sense.

[George II]

49. It's a misnomer. I'd guess that even the dolt who came up with it didn't intend it to mean....

....what some are claiming it means.

de·fund

prevent from continuing to receive funds.

https://www.google.com/search?q=defund+definition&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS725US725&oq=defund+definition&aqs=chrome.0.69i59.2843j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[maxsolomon]

50. Your concern is noted.

You better get down to BLM HQ and let them know.

[alittlelark]

54. It is noted by MANY !!!!

Time to look around - that SOUND is R's playing to stoopid ppl - most of whom SHOULD be arrested.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

It IS Time To Be 'Concerned'.

[mercuryblues]

52. Well then, It a good thing

Biden isn't running on that.