Isn't this sexist?

[moose65]

I’ve noticed this here on DU and also on dailykos, particularly in comments. Male politicians are almost always referred to by their last names: Biden, Trump, Obama, et cetera. Female politicians are often referred to by their first names: Hillary, Kamala, Elizabeth, Nancy, et cetera. Isn’t that sexist?

Men are respected and called by their surnames, which makes them sound stronger and in-charge, while “the womenfolk” are still called by their first names, as if they’re not as important and just need to calm their little heads down. Amirite? 😃

[lettucebe]

1. Personally I think its simply because if you just said Harris no one would be sure who you meant

They are better known by their first names. I don't have a problem with it

[jcgoldie]

6. uhm who else do you think they would mean?

[moose65]

9. They are better known by their first names?

I think you just proved my point.

Very, very few people refer to Obama as “Barack.” It’s seen as disrespectful. Almost everyone refers to Clinton as Hillary, although with her you probably need both names, to distinguish her from Bill.

When Joe Biden gets elected, most of us will call him Biden, not Joe.

[JI7]

12. Many people call him Uncle Joe .

[moose65]

18. They do?

I really haven’t seen that much.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Most of Hillary Clinton's campaign materials referred to her as Hillary.

I've always referred to the other women as Harris, Warren and Pelosi. Sometimes I refer to Biden as Joe. I call Trump all kinds of things, none of them flattering.

[moose65]

13. The names I have for Trump are all unflattering!

But again, virtually no one calls him Donald.

[Delmette2.0]

3. I think it is.

[gratuitous]

4. I tend to agree

I try to follow newspaper style, making the first reference to a person by first and last name, then using the last name after that.

[moose65]

10. Good idea

And a good rule to follow.

[LuckyCharms]

5. It's a good question, but I have heard it both ways...

VP Biden is frequently referred to as Joe.

Sen. Kamala Harris is frequently referred to as Harris.

I think it depends on the context, tone, and who is saying their names.

[Ferrets are Cool]

7. It's why I say Sen. Warren, ect...

I agree with you.

[JI7]

11. Warren is actually referred to as Warren mostly.

[Ferrets are Cool]

14. Not by me

[moose65]

15. Yay!

And just to clarify, I’m not talking about how they are referred to in the press or on TV. I’m talking about how WE, ordinary people, refer to them.

[JI7]

8. In Hillary's case it's because Bill is known as Clinton although he is

referred to as Bill also.

It depends on context.

[Demonaut]

16. no, the first and last names are used on both groups at different times,. we use Pelosi

as often as we use "Nancy", and Clinton is rarely used on Hillary as it can be confused with her husband

[ornotna]

17. You tell me

Is this sexist?

[moose65]

22. Yes, I know

Almost all of her materials had “Hillary” everywhere. But she was a special case. If her last name hadn’t been Clinton, she would have used it.

[sheshe2]

23. [phone]

[Poiuyt]

19. Bernie, Beto, Jeb

But I see your point

[moose65]

24. Bernie is about the only man...

Who rarely used his last name.

Beto did use his last name occasionally.

Jeb? Well, the Bush name became poison 😆

[MuseRider]

20. I would prefer my first name.

My last name is not my last name. When I got married I was under significant pressure to take my husbands last name. I did not want to but my mother and my grandparents and my not very nice father in law let me have it. I caved in the hopes that I would still be able to maintain an identity. Getting called Mrs. His Name just annoyed the hell out of me. Maybe it has to do with just being identified as them and not them through him?

[sheshe2]

21. No.

First of all Hillary's campaign promoted her as such to make a distinction between Bill and herself. She ran as herself and not her husbands spouse. My Senator Warren, I always call her Warren. What I hate is when I see far to many here on DU call her 'Liz', she is Elizabeth Warren. I found her being called Liz insulting. I almost always call them by their last names depending on the conversation.

Frankly I call Biden, Joe more than not. Obama was always called that and trumpie, donnie, the con,pResident is what he is.

Me thinks you are calling it wrong.

[moose65]

26. Yeah, I know

Hillary was a special case, since we already had a President Clinton.

To me, it seems condescending to refer to female politicians by their first names. It’s overly familiar and somewhat disrespectful. I can’t explain it - it’s almost like reducing them to “the little woman” or “the help.” As if they are just playing: “Oh look at little Kamala, pretending to play with the big boys.”

[lunatica]

48. It depends on your point of view obviously

I feel that when famous or well known women are referred to by their first name it’s because they’re actually famous, whether we like them or not. Melania and Ivanka are obvious examples. Perhaps it’s a different standard, but I don’t understand why it would belittle them in any way. It’s their rightful name so how is it in any way a rude thing? It keeps constant misunderstanding about who is being referenced down.

This reminds me a little about the kerfuffle over women wanting to be called Ms instead of Mrs and of how many women want to keep their last names even when they get married. I took back my maiden name and prefer the Ms title. When I was young it was considered scandalous to want to keep your birth name. People got over it.

[Hoyt]

25. I think you are right. Personally, male or female, I'm never comfortable using first

names of people who aren’t a friend of mine. Even on music websites where I hang out — where people use the first name of band members — I always use their last name.

First names are for personal friends IMO. But, that’s just me and my mania.

[rogue emissary]

27. I've noticed the same thing.

I try to correct it in my writing. Even though Sanders campaign material and the majority of his supporter refer to Sanders by his first name, I can't do it. If I do, I honestly read it as being flippant or sarcastic. I'm not a big fan of his, and if I wrote something positive about him, I'd still in my head think I was disrespectful.

That is why I make a point to refer to all politicians no matter their gender by their last names. It comes down to a basic level of respect for me. Also, I'm not trying to say someone is disrespectful by using the first name.

[moose65]

30. I agree

I remember one of my coworkers who taught English who was always telling us about students who referred to authors by their first names. For example, they would be writing a paper about Emily Dickinson and refer to her as Emily.

I agree that it seems overly familiar to call people that we have never met by their first names!

[sl8]

35. What if you asked for and were granted permission?

Last edited Fri Jul 31, 2020, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

https://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/153485060751/my-english-teacher-says-we-shouldnt-refer-to

skyofdarkmatter42 asked: My English teacher says we shouldn't refer to authors by their first names because they aren't our friends. Will you confirm our friendship and let me call you Neil on my American Gods book report?

neil-gaiman posted this: Absolutely.

[demmiblue]

47. Lol!

Excellent response by Neil (he is my friend... he just doesn't know it yet).

[Blue_true]

28. I don't think that it is sexist.

I refer to Hillary Clinton as Hillary or Hillary Clinton, because just saying Clinton creates an issue.

I refer to Senator Elizabeth Warren as Senator Warren, very seldom do I use Liz and never do I remember using just Elizabeth.

Honest, I tend to flip around on the others, I call Joe Biden Joe at times, same with. Bill Clinton being called Bill. The only person that I use only one title with is ex-President Obama, I call him President Obama.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. Maybe it would be less sexist if we lived in Iceland, where everybody goes by their first name

because their last names are patronymics, not surnames like we usually use. So: Hillary Hughsdóttir, Joe Josephsson, Donald Fredericksson, etc. If the father is unknown or not in the picture, or as a matter of choice they might use the mother's name. But I guess it's easier to keep track of people's parents' names in a country of 300,000 people than in one of 300 million.

[RobinA]

31. Kind Of

I will admit to calling Hillary, Hillary, but mostly because of Clinton, Bill. Everyone else I call by her last name. I do call Bernie, Bernie. But I'm 62. We didn't run around calling everybody by their first names, so that's probably part of it.

[Renew Deal]

32. You could try to prove this by running google searches

site: democraticunderground.com + Pelosi
site: democraticunderground.com + Nancy
site: democraticunderground.com + Elizabeth
site: democraticunderground.com + Warren


It is very difficult to check Hillary Clinton. Clinton could be either her or Bill.
Kamala's name is so unique that I'm not sure it's a good test.

I've seen a lot more Duckworth in the last 24 hours than "Tammy", so I'm not sure about the hypothesis.

[moose65]

37. The hypothesis?

My hypothesis is that it’s sexist - not that it simply happens.

[Drahthaardogs]

33. I think this is completely anecdotal and disagree

I have never seen Elizabeth Warren referred to as Elizabeth, but always Warren. How about Sanders? Everyone calls him Bernie.

I think your perception is wrong

[Renew Deal]

34. I agree

[moose65]

36. Wait....

You disagree that it’s sexist, or you disagree that it happens?

You’ve never seen Elizabeth Warren referred to as Elizabeth? Isn’t that anecdotal too? 😁

[Drahthaardogs]

38. It is anecdotal as well

And calling someone by their first name is not necessarily sexist. I think you are grasping for something that doesn't exist

[moose65]

41. Well, that's not really what I said

I didn’t say that calling someone by their first name was sexist. I said that doing that for women while not doing it for men is sexist.

[GulfCoast66]

39. I've got an election to help win.

Get back with me when Joe is President.

[moose65]

42. Haha

We can do more than one thing at a time.

[Celerity]

40. anecdotal (and very selective)

[moose65]

43. Well of course it's anecdotal

I wasn’t saying otherwise. I merely was asking for other opinions.

[Trumpocalypse]

44. Bernie is a woman??

It may or may not be sexist. I just find it a bit cultish.

[BannonsLiver]

45. No.

[Polybius]

46. I don't hear or see Elizabeth Warren's first name being used like that

Hillary Clinton's was, but I'm not convinced it was sexist. It just sounds good to say (I love her name), and also to avoid confusion with Bill. Bernie Sanders first name is used all the time too. It just has a nice ring to it.