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MaryMagdaline

(6,872 posts)
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 08:56 AM Aug 2020

Payroll Tax Cut Most horrifying decision ever

Worse than Bush tax cuts. Worse than McConnell tax cuts.

I’m an employer. It hurts twice a month to pay payroll taxes. It hurts even more to defund Social Security.

I’m absolutely sick to my stomach.

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Payroll Tax Cut Most horrifying decision ever (Original Post) MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 OP
Yup SheltieLover Aug 2020 #1
Yes. Biden camp needs to jump on this with Trump Defunds MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #3
Absolutely! SheltieLover Aug 2020 #7
And they earned it not fooled Aug 2020 #35
Right! SheltieLover Aug 2020 #49
Republicans have been working toward this for 85 years. BKDem Aug 2020 #2
Yes they have. They finally got a president evil enough and stupid enough to do it MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #4
They sure have! SheltieLover Aug 2020 #8
They fought FDR True Blue American Aug 2020 #40
On live TV shithole told the world that he will . . . . Iliyah Aug 2020 #5
Unbelievable MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #6
And class warfare! SheltieLover Aug 2020 #9
Yes! Social security is all most people have MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #27
Sadly yes DownriverDem Aug 2020 #41
Sure do! SheltieLover Aug 2020 #53
Right! SheltieLover Aug 2020 #51
How does most of the media respond? "trump acts because congress didn't people will get checks!" mucifer Aug 2020 #10
Unbelievable MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #11
It's not a tax cut. It's a tax postponement. And they'll undoubtedly charge all of us interest. Squinch Aug 2020 #12
How long is the postponement or do we know? MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #13
I presume until you go file your taxes. LisaL Aug 2020 #18
Got it. Thanks! MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #23
It shouldn't make a difference on your Federal tax return because yellowdogintexas Aug 2020 #34
Yes. In a normal world this would be the death knell to anyone's campaign MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #37
It actually may. Ms. Toad Aug 2020 #52
Although be careful about funding Social Security out of the General Fund not fooled Aug 2020 #59
This would be solely for the period from September through December. Ms. Toad Aug 2020 #60
Yes. Evil and stupid scheme MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #65
From what I have read it comes due Jan 1 2021. Payable on April 15, 2021 LiberalArkie Aug 2020 #20
Thank you! MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #24
Through the end of the year. whopis01 Aug 2020 #63
Biden will not force people to pay it. He'll make soc security whole by taking money CousinIT Aug 2020 #67
So you are saying that we have to pay it all back in a few months? fescuerescue Aug 2020 #19
Yep. Exactly. Squinch Aug 2020 #56
It's not a tax cut, Trump can't do that, it's a deferred payment. CaptainTruth Aug 2020 #14
Thank you! Another scam MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #30
Trump just lost Florida duforsure Aug 2020 #15
I can only hope MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #31
This is a typical mob tactic. gordianot Aug 2020 #16
The EOs themselves... MrModerate Aug 2020 #17
McConnell was installed in office, Scarsdale Aug 2020 #21
And he finally got the Fox News brainwashed elderly he needs MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #25
how ironic is it that probably 50 to 60 percent of KY voters depend heavily yellowdogintexas Aug 2020 #36
I remember a few years ago Scarsdale Aug 2020 #46
Kudlow said this morning that it will have to be paid back unless trump steps in. Hoyt Aug 2020 #22
I'm no longer sure the country will even last until January 2021. Lonestarblue Aug 2020 #26
No need to apologize. You've eloquently and logically described stark reality MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #28
I'm afraid of the time *after* elections durablend Aug 2020 #33
Sobering thought shanti Aug 2020 #68
Death by a thousand cuts. The only upside is this may be the final cut to end of Trump Fla Dem Aug 2020 #29
Hoping this wakes up the elderly. I'm 61 and awake all night MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #32
St Johns here. Fla Dem Aug 2020 #66
its not a tax cut SiliconValley_Dem Aug 2020 #38
So we all get a SSA balloon payment taken out of Our paychecks on Jan 1 2021.... Tommymac Aug 2020 #39
Just like we had to repay Bush's True Blue American Aug 2020 #42
i live in a 40 unit lo income /seinior/ disabled apartment complex, AllaN01Bear Aug 2020 #43
Hopefully they will get it MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #61
You had better get a tax attorney. roamer65 Aug 2020 #44
Yes. MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #50
My advice to employers. roamer65 Aug 2020 #45
Just texted my two partners. We are in agreement to pay no matter what MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #47
Agreed MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #48
Schumer said this morning most employers Big Blue Marble Aug 2020 #54
Great idea! MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #55
So, they can make it all become due on Joe's watch. Baked Potato Aug 2020 #57
Yep. Poison pill for next administration MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #58
Also, it will appear as though Biden and Democrats raised taxes ecstatic Aug 2020 #62
Agreed. This seems to be their plan MaryMagdaline Aug 2020 #64

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
1. Yup
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 08:58 AM
Aug 2020

Repukes have that effect on rational people.

I sure hope Dems challenge this! And I hope & trust Joe will campaign against this. He has already spoken out against gutting SS & Medicare. I hope he continues to address this!

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
7. Absolutely!
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 09:14 AM
Aug 2020

Beat it like a drum!

Of course, repuke seniors will think it's a good idea because, you know, services grow on trees & taxes are bad.

not fooled

(5,830 posts)
35. And they earned it
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:59 AM
Aug 2020

and they deserve it, so their beloved pukes will never make cuts that hurt THEM, only those other, undeserving people.



How dumb can these people be? Dumb enough to not realize that the same people who decades ago started cutting programs that helped poor people are now coming for programs that help the middle class.


True Blue American

(18,014 posts)
40. They fought FDR
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:29 AM
Aug 2020

When Social Security was enacted. He said he welcomed their hate!

Let us see Mitch and Lindsey embrace this. Ben Sasse has already called the EO’s slop!

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
5. On live TV shithole told the world that he will . . . .
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 09:09 AM
Aug 2020

rid SS taxes if re-elected . ….

In other words, he will dismantle SS, Medicare and Medicaid (Medi-Cal).

mucifer

(23,729 posts)
10. How does most of the media respond? "trump acts because congress didn't people will get checks!"
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 09:19 AM
Aug 2020

No big social security headlines.

MaryMagdaline

(6,872 posts)
13. How long is the postponement or do we know?
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 09:43 AM
Aug 2020

I’ve been reading all morning and if you have the source handy I would greatly appreciate your giving me a link.

LisaL

(45,037 posts)
18. I presume until you go file your taxes.
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:15 AM
Aug 2020

Instead of a refund you might owe the government. Because Trump's order didn't change the tax laws, only that taxes are temporarily not being paid by you.

yellowdogintexas

(22,368 posts)
34. It shouldn't make a difference on your Federal tax return because
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:58 AM
Aug 2020

those taxes are not deductible if you itemize. What it will do is at a minimum stunt the growth of the SocSec fund and then the fund will run out. Current beneficiaries will see their monthly payment reduced over time and eventually there will be no money.

I suspect all hell is going to break loose over this, and all these people who are doing those great videos will tear up jack

He is really cutting off his nose to spite his face because it should cause him to lose the elder vote.

Ms. Toad

(34,423 posts)
52. It actually may.
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:55 AM
Aug 2020

Payroll taxes are functionally just like income taxes, but most people don't realize that, since the withholding is an exact match for the tax due.

Those who might recognise it are the self-employed, or tipped employees.

You owe a fixed percent of your income in FICA taxes. Your router withhold it. It matches. No reconciliation required at the end of the year.

The directive to stop withholding throws that out of whack. You still owe the taxes -the only thing that changes is that your employer didn't collect them as you owed them (and didn't pay them to the government), So come tax time, you will still owe the taxes - and will likely have to write a a 6.2% check to the IRS to pay back that extra money that was in your paycheck from Sept through December.

Trump is using this threat of a significant tax liability to coerce voters to re-elect him. If I'm elected, week make this permanent (i.e. You'll never have to pay these taxes back . . . But if you don't, Biden won't rescue you, and you get a huge tax bill.)

Biden should probably pledge to create a refundable tax credit in the amount of any taxes not withheld by this obscene move. Taxes would be owed, the credit would cover them, the credit would come from the general treasury (ensuring this stunt did not harm social security.). It would, in effect be another stimulus bill. For now, trumps order means you get another small chunk of money in each paycheck -those taxes you owe, but which are not being paid as you go. A retroactive credit means you aren't hurt by it (i.e. Never have to take $ out of your pocket to pay those taxes.)

not fooled

(5,830 posts)
59. Although be careful about funding Social Security out of the General Fund
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 02:15 PM
Aug 2020

because that's a lot easier to play games with and cut than if the funds go directly to Social Security.

Al Gore had it right with the lockbox. Of course many 'Muricans laughed at him at the time.


pukes are talented at hiding their tracks and playing the shell game so people don't realize what they are up to.

Ms. Toad

(34,423 posts)
60. This would be solely for the period from September through December.
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 02:44 PM
Aug 2020

Most people don't understand how FICA taxes work, and will spend the extra money in their paychecks for the next 3 months - not realizing that they will need to reconcile them on tax day. Those people will be hurt by Trump's gambit.

AND - what I'm talking about funding is not social security, but a tax credit to hold taxpayers harmless for Trump's campaign stunt.
's

whopis01

(3,555 posts)
63. Through the end of the year.
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 05:29 PM
Aug 2020

Here is the actual order:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-deferring-payroll-tax-obligations-light-ongoing-covid-19-disaster/

It defers until the end of the year. Presumably it is all due back then.

However, Trump has stated that if re-elected he would make it permanent.

Essentially this is an artificial way of created a large tax bill for most people in January that can only be fixed by re electing Trump.

CousinIT

(9,367 posts)
67. Biden will not force people to pay it. He'll make soc security whole by taking money
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:31 PM
Aug 2020

from General. In fact that's what he and Obama did in 2009.

But THEY can be trusted to do that. Even though yea, it's not good to have social security money coming out of the Gen Fund - because it's easier to meddle with and cut.

TRUMP has said he'd permanently keep the cuts ie: DEFUND SOCIAL SECURITY ENTIRELY.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
19. So you are saying that we have to pay it all back in a few months?
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:17 AM
Aug 2020

What kind of crap is that.

We all get personal loans now? whether we want them or not.

CaptainTruth

(6,693 posts)
14. It's not a tax cut, Trump can't do that, it's a deferred payment.
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 09:58 AM
Aug 2020

It's like our income tax payment (the due date) was deferred from April 15 to July 15. The tax is still due, & it's the same amount, the due date has just been delayed. I saw one media source say it would be due "at the end of the year."

Edit to add: This assumes Congress does nothing. Congress could cut it, or extend the deferment, but only Congress can cut it.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
17. The EOs themselves...
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:14 AM
Aug 2020

Will immediately be mired in the courts, and Congress will hammer something out on Coronavirus relief in a few days. The EOs will eventually dissipate like other Trumpian brain farts and will be formally cancelled early in the Biden Administration.

This is me putting my Nostradamus hat on, of course.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
21. McConnell was installed in office,
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:21 AM
Aug 2020

and is kept there just for the purpose of destroying all entitlement programs. It has been his mission for years. He doesn't need them since he has lined his pockets for years from wealthy donors who want this, too. Until all the traitors in the gop are thrown out of their cushy positions, we will not make any progress toward universal healthcare, either. McConnell is just as much a fan of Russia as tRump is. He is partnered with a Russian oligarch in an aluminum plant in Kentucky. He is a traitor who needs to GO, along with his wife who is just as corrupt as Moscow Mitch.

yellowdogintexas

(22,368 posts)
36. how ironic is it that probably 50 to 60 percent of KY voters depend heavily
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:00 AM
Aug 2020

on these social support programs. Three of the poorest counties in the nation are in KY

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
46. I remember a few years ago
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:49 AM
Aug 2020

during the oxycontin epidemic, watching a TV program. They showed a poor town in Kentucky that had low employment, and many addicts. Republican reps. were bribing people to vote gop, by handing them pills. It was wide open bribery, yet nothing was done to stop it. Mitch has people brainwashed into thinking HE will save the poor. He is as big a con artists as tRump, no doubt about that. Vile excuse for a human being. Democratic reps. need to travel the backroads in these states that insist on keeping traitors in power, and inform them what is REALLY going on. I would wager that very few of these people even know Social Security and Medicare are on the chopping block.

Lonestarblue

(10,497 posts)
26. I'm no longer sure the country will even last until January 2021.
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:33 AM
Aug 2020

Trump is moving at a faster pace to dismantle everything he can touch. The virus is out of control with no end in sight, and with schools starting across the country, infections will start spreading even faster.

Riots in Portland are giving Trump an excuse to return his secret police if he chooses. Oregon also seems out of control, or if it isn’t the media is portraying it that way.

Trump is doing his best to destroy the postal service to prevent mailed ballots. And who can stop him? It seems no one. We no longer have an Attorney General working for us—we have a corrupt one working against us. Congressional hearings are good, but where’s the power to remove DeJoy?

And now Trump has usurped Congress’s Constitutional role as the body with sole authority for taxing and spending. The Republican Supreme Court already gave him the green light for bypassing Congress when it allowed him to use defense money when Congress refused to allocate more money for his wall. Trump set up failure in Congress by sending Mark Meadows to Congressional negotiations to ensure that they would blow up, and he was successful. Democrats may be able to file suit to stop Trump’s usurpation, but how long will that take? Meanwhile SS and Medicare funds are being robbed.

Trump and his team are looking at the same polls we are. And states like Florida, Texas, and Georgia where Biden is either ahead or close are run by Republican governors. I’m sure the Trump campaign is working with Republican governors to do everything they can to prevent minorities, seniors, and any other bloc that favors Biden from voting. Does anyone really believe that DeSantis will do nothing to prevent Biden being elected?

Sorry, but my pessimism has taken over this morning because I think we will have nothing but chaos until the vote in November. Having to stay at home 98% of the time and being unable to see friends and relatives is definitely getting to me!

MaryMagdaline

(6,872 posts)
28. No need to apologize. You've eloquently and logically described stark reality
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:38 AM
Aug 2020

Post Office and Social Security, the sacredness of the vote. It’s all on the line.

durablend

(7,528 posts)
33. I'm afraid of the time *after* elections
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:49 AM
Aug 2020

If he wins he just finishes everything off. "You voted for me suckers! Too bad so sad! No backsies!"

If he loses he just finishes everything off. "This is what happens when people vote for Democrats! Find them and KILL THEM ALL!"

shanti

(21,680 posts)
68. Sobering thought
Mon Aug 10, 2020, 12:00 AM
Aug 2020

You're probably right. I can see it getting VERY ugly, people with nothing to lose. I just try to take it one day at a time. Trashy reality shows help.

Fla Dem

(24,263 posts)
29. Death by a thousand cuts. The only upside is this may be the final cut to end of Trump
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 10:39 AM
Aug 2020

Essentially eliminating funding for Social Security and Medicare. Senior citizens will not respond well to this. Any that are still in his cult, may finally see the error of their ways.

I do not see the rational to this. Surely some of his advisers told him this would not be viewed favorably by his followers.

 

SiliconValley_Dem

(1,656 posts)
38. its not a tax cut
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:17 AM
Aug 2020

and because thats the case, businesses will likely continue withholding payroll taxes as per mormal

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
39. So we all get a SSA balloon payment taken out of Our paychecks on Jan 1 2021....
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:28 AM
Aug 2020

This little fact needs to be spread far and wide on the Internets...Lincoln Project where are you?

Hell, Democratic Party WHERE ARE YOU?

AllaN01Bear

(19,878 posts)
43. i live in a 40 unit lo income /seinior/ disabled apartment complex,
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:42 AM
Aug 2020

there are a # of his supporters living here . they always feel immune to things like this , boy are they in for a shock and so am i. if the thing wins illeagly again in nov, we all need to hit the streets .

roamer65

(36,752 posts)
45. My advice to employers.
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:48 AM
Aug 2020

Continue deductions from paychecks and if the government refuses the payments, put them in escrow until sanity returns.

MaryMagdaline

(6,872 posts)
47. Just texted my two partners. We are in agreement to pay no matter what
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 11:53 AM
Aug 2020

Have to give ADP a heads up to ignore this EO if possible

Big Blue Marble

(5,175 posts)
54. Schumer said this morning most employers
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 12:38 PM
Aug 2020

will continue to withhold and pay the payroll tax so they will not owe it later.
Spread the word this is just another Trump scam.

ecstatic

(32,925 posts)
62. Also, it will appear as though Biden and Democrats raised taxes
Sun Aug 9, 2020, 04:15 PM
Aug 2020

dramatically when the money has to be paid back. Millions will owe taxes. What a nightmare!

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