MORMONS Want To Excommunicate Romney CRITIC

[Segami]

After writing negative articles about the Republican candidate, the managing editor of MormonThink.com says he faces excommunication. Is the Church on a witch hunt? Jamie Reno reports.

“..The public should be aware of what is happening within the walls of the Mormon church to those that dissent during this ‘Mormon Moment’,..” Twede says.

David Twede, 47, a scientist, novelist, and fifth-generation Mormon, is managing editor of MormonThink.com, an online magazine produced largely by members of the Mormon Church that welcomes scholarly debate about the religion’s history from both critics and true believers. A Mormon in good standing, Twede has never been disciplined by Latter Day Saints leadership. But it now appears his days as a Mormon may be numbered because of a series of articles he wrote this past week that were critical of Mitt Romney. On Sunday, Twede says his bishop, stake president, and two church executives brought him into Florida Mormon church offices in Orlando and interrogated him for nearly an hour about his writings, telling him, "Cease and desist, Brother Twede."



- The four church leaders verbally chastised him, he says, for hiding his identity on MormonThink and his personal blog in order to avoid discipline. Twede, who writes using only his first name, says they kept asking him why he didn’t identify himself online if he had nothing to hide. “I told them I hide my name precisely because of things like this,” he says. “I said, ‘Look how fast you got to me.’ I know a lot of members don’t want their life disturbed. In the Mormon church, if you’re not part of the uniform group, you are ostracized.” Twede asked church leaders how they came up with his name so fast after posting the articles. They wouldn't tell him, but he says he’s since been told by a church insider that a contributor to the pro-Mormon Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, many of whose members are professors at Brigham Young University, alerted church officials in Salt Lake City, who apparently informed his local ecclesiastical leaders.



- “When they interrogated me, they denied that they were on a witch hunt, but they kept asking me, ‘Who are the other individuals you work with on MormonThink?’” he says. “They continued demanding that I tell them. But I didn’t.” Twede's situation was first publicly disclosed this week on an ex-Mormon online discussion site by Steve Benson, the Pulitzer Prize–winning editorial cartoonist for The Arizona Republic and grandson of former secretary of agriculture and Mormon prophet Ezra Taft Benson. Benson, who left Mormonism in 1993, the same year he won the Pulitzer, is now a vocal critic of the church and is an active voice on the ex-Mormon sites.




- Then last week he posted several stories about the political history of LDS and how the church may or may not influence Romney, as well as a few blog posts that were tongue-in-cheek takes on the church. And that was apparently all it took for church leaders to intervene. “When they brought me into the office, they told me they were upset by the way I had portrayed myself,” he says. “They didn't like that I was writing a blog critical of the church, and they were upset by the fact that I was discussing the temple, which is connected to Mitt Romney in my article. I revealed things about the temple, and secrecy, and other things that they just don’t want anyone to talk about.”






cont'

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/21/mormons-want-to-excommunicate-romney-critic.html

[Laurajr]

1. is there only one brave Mormon

I would think that their would be more than one mormon that criticized Romney.

[Segami]

5. Those ' critics ' are probably being secretly cautious knowing full well the LDS's ways.

[oswaldactedalone]

2. One tries to free himself

from the extreme cult that is Mormonism.

[Comrade Grumpy]

4. Religous bigotry isn't nice, or progressive.

All religions have weird beliefs, but I will respect people's right to choose their belief systems.

[nichomachus]

11. I will too -- until

their "religion" spends millions of dollars to take away my civil and human rights. Then -- fuck 'em.

[Cha]

47. Yeah, the Mormon religion needs

to butt out of other people's lives. And, what' that crap about baptizing bodies after they're dead?!

[siligut]

54. They baptize the dead by proxy

So they dunk a Mormon teenager while they say the name of the dead person.

[progressivebydesign]

3. Ugh. Sounds like scientology and jehovah's witnesses... n/t

[kestrel91316]

6. Why did he even agree to go anywhere with them to be interrogated??

He's still so brainwashed he obeys them when they order him around.

Sad, and extremely cult-like. I'd be telling them leave me the hell alone and go pound sand. They really do think they have the right to control literally every aspect of members' lives.

If Rmoney is elected, he WILL obey all orders from the Mormon church hierarchy.

[Segami]

8. The Mormon Church should be threatening Romney with excommunication from LDS.

Last night on The Last Word, Lawrence had a prominent Mormon, Dr. Gregory A. Prince Ph.D. on as a guest. He accused Romney of " displaying cruel attitude toward the 47 percent"......totally against LDS's teachings proclaiming Mormons have " a sacred obligation to assist the less-able ". Why haven't the LDS hierarchy spoken out against Romney's 47 percent comment video? Why aren't THEY standing up for the " less-able "?

It is supremely ironic that Romney was denounced this evening by a prominent Mormon, Dr. Gregory A. Prince, Ph.D., who told Lawrence O'Donnell that he was "grieved and mystified" that Romney displayed the cruel attitude toward "the 47 percent" in the fund-raising speech that he gave in Boca Raton, Florida some months ago.

Prince, who is an authority on both the LDS Church itself and on Mormon doctrine, asserted without hesitation that Mormons have "a sacred obligation to assist the less-able." His denunciation is all the more serious because he actually knows Romney and apparently did not recognize the person who gave the now-famous speech.


http://www.examiner.com/article/here-s-a-contribution-to-understanding-mitt-romney-perhaps?cid=rss

.

[kestrel91316]

39. The Mormons don't assist anyone who isn't one of them AND in excellent standing with the church.

They never helped my elderly grandmother out to the tune of one thin dime. All they did was come onto her ranch (when my uncles weren't around to run them off) to harangue her about her failure to tithe.

She was poor as a church mouse.

[siligut]

9. It is all nice, polite and respectful at first

You go to provide information and explain your position, you are treated politely and with respect when you are told about it. Twede had grown up with Bishop interviews and group-think, so he went, he is a good Mormon.

However, this was different and not just by a little. I would call the sort of "interrogation" Mormon leaders use psychological torture. It is meant to instill fear and shut you up. Which is why so few people know about it. I wonder if we will hear much more from Twede.

Twede would be better off out of the cult, but the shitty thing is not only the brainwashing that being thrown out is akin to hell, but also that his family and friends will shun him.

I agree with you about Romney, he is not free to think for himself.

[kestrel91316]

43. The Mormon bishop who was principal of my JHS in UT tried to pull that

interrogation crap with me over my too-short skirts. He didn't realize I wasn't one of his submissive little church underlings because my last name is common in Utah and is Mormon. He learned otherwise, and my mom gave him an earful when she found out what he was doing - she might have been batshit crazy but she loathed Mormons. He never bothered me or my older sister again after Mom got done with him.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

7. If you get excommunicated won't they just re-baptize you back in again after you're dead?

What's the risk?

[nichomachus]

12. The risk is that you're cut off from your family

If a relative dies, you cannot attend their funeral. If someone gets married, you cannot attend the wedding. And on and on.

[JimDandy]

29. Yes, from TEMPLE

marriage ceremonies, but that applies to ANYONE, Mormon or not, who doesn't have a temple recommend. Not true about funerals. Am ex-Mormon and have been to funerals for deceased Mormons in good standing. Why do you think that?

[kestrel91316]

40. Lol, yeah, somebody is confusing Mormons with Amish. Didn't think that was possible.

[mnhtnbb]

10. Yeah, fuck the First Amendment. Too bad he didn't tear up his membership card...or whatever...

and tell the Magic Underwear "brothers' to go fuck themselves.

Funny, hubby and I were just chatting at lunch today about how NO ONE will touch
all the weird and freaky history of the Mormon Church. Some journalist
really ought to write a piece for popular reading.

[Segami]

15. Timing is everything in politics. Maybe such a powerhouse piece is already waiting

to be released weeks before the election (if needed). You don't need to convert the opinions of every voter,...just nudge them enough to cast (Christian) doubts for a Mormon vote. You may never get them to change their vote over for Obama, but it might cause them to abstain from casting a presidential vote for either Obama or Romney which becomes a ( + ) pickup for Obama.

[riderinthestorm]

33. You should really read Under The Banner Of Heaven by Jon Krakauer nt

[mnhtnbb]

55. Thanks for the suggestion. Don't know if I could stomach it.

[AzSweet]

13. I'm so glad...

...this was posred. I posted it yesterday, but not as detailed...but people need to know. It really is a bully cult.

[pinboy3niner]

14. If they want to punish somebody, they ought to excommunicate his campaign team

[siligut]

21. They have made Mormons look more like assholes than Twede ever could

[MariaM83]

16. so are they gonna excommunicate Harry Reid too? cause he surely deserves it 1,000x more nt

[MariaM83]

17. I wonder how many excommunications RMoney has presided over nt

[central scrutinizer]

24. maybe his babysitter?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101759474

[MariaM83]

18. this is so Spanish Inquisition

there are bad apples in every social organization

Unfortunately, some social organizations have way more than their fair share.

[KamaAina]

19. Are they going to excommunicate Huntsman?

He's had some pretty sharp words for Rmoney, too. Even now he pretty much damns Willard with faint praise.

[Segami]

20. The LDS 'cherry-picks' their excommunication threats.

[Sheepshank]

22. ..and this ould be one of the reasons "cult" is an apt adjective, noun, proper noun for these clowns

individual thought is to be crushed before anyone else may catch wind of it.

"Interweb" is the the most horrendous tool they have ever come across...and they don't know how to control it. I take that back. They tell their membership to avoid the web because of porn addition. Avoid all of it, because you never know when the information will jump out and addict them all unawares-like.

[MariaM83]

23. now, now, let's be fair - the Vatican wants to "silence" progressive nuns nt

[MissMarple]

28. But they don't discipline Catholics because of their political views.

The nuns are under the direct authority of the church hierarchy.

[smokey nj]

56. Yes they do. Pro-choice Catholics are denied communion and threatened with excommunication.

[MissMarple]

59. This seems to be an American phenomenon. It is up to the bishops.

And most bishops don't support it. It seems American Catholic clergy are like many Americans, fundamentalist and overly punitive. This is a choice not a requirement.

[KurtNYC]

25. So the Mormon church is a political organization?

Openly using its resources to back political candidates...hmmmm.

[Dawson Leery]

26. The Mormon church is all to similar to the Catholic Church.

[get the red out]

27. Poor guy

I'm sure they will do him a good deal of emotional harm, but at least they can't kill him. We've come that far in society anyway.

[Taverner]

30. WTH, the Formal Mormon Church sounds straight outa Stalin...

This reads like the stories of Stasi informants!

[L0oniX]

31. Fuck them! Damn "cult" is no better than that fucked up Scientology flying saucer bull shit.

They are a church of heresy. They literally take license to change the Bible to suit their ability control people. They actually place more importance on their fake make up bull shit pseudo bible book than the authenticated Bible. Book of Mormon ...my ass!

[el_bryanto]

32. very troubling

Revealing details about the Temple Ceremony is against the rules. Not sure what to make of this.

Bryant

[el_bryanto]

34. Upon reading his blog, it sounds like he wants to leave the church anyway

Or his blog is a list of negative aspects the Church and about Romney; obviously he has a right to be critical of the church, but I don't see much reason why he wants to continue being a Mormon.

Bryant

[Segami]

36. Nichomachus post#12 gives the clue.

[riderinthestorm]

35. I'm curious about your thoughts Bryant. I know you are a practicing Mormon

Do you think Twede should be excommunicated?

[el_bryanto]

41. 2 things

1. I don't think he is being excommunicated for criticizing Romney - I think it has more to do with running a website critical of the Church's doctrine and history. On Mormon Think, for example, there is an article called Lying for the Lord, about how Church members deceive one another and outsiders about Church History. He does mention details of the Temple Ceremony.

2. I don't read in his blog why Brother Twede wants to be a Mormon - or if he has a Testimony of the Church. It's possible that he does not see that as the purpose of his blog - he's doing a critique of the church, and his testimony or belief should be taken as read. It's possible that if we were to sit down and talk, I'd get a clearer idea of what he believes. My inclination is to be charitable and assume that he does have a testimony, but I don't know him.

So in response, I have to say - I don't know. I certainly see some problems here; but I don't know enough to know if this action is justified.

[riderinthestorm]

44. So in general, its okay to excommunicate a member because they are critical of the church

doctrines and history? Is that a general feeling amongst Mormons? Do you believe that?

Why is it so imperative the "temple ceremony" be such a secret? I believe that the details are already out there if anyone cares so why excommunicate someone over something that's already out in the public sphere?

[el_bryanto]

45. I think the same rationale for why Conservatives aren't permitted at this board

As I said I don't know - but people do get excommunicated for Apostasy -i.e. working against the Church or trying to persuade others to doubt the Gospel. That strikes me as fair enough. They are free to work against the church if they wish to, but they don't need to do it as members of the Church.

As for the temple thing, it's a matter of holding something that is very sacred with reverence.

Bryant

[riderinthestorm]

49. I guess I've always defined apostasy as the actual renunciation of one's faith

Simply being critical of church doctrine or the leadership wouldn't seem to me to be enough to excommunicate someone - unless even that level of dissent is verboten (which I guess it is ).

I haven't read enough of Twede to know if he treats the temple rituals profanely. Is it irreverent to even talk about them? Does one have to cross into actually dissing them or is talking about them with non-mormons enough?

I really am interested and ask with sincerity.

[el_bryanto]

50. the Church defines it more by actions - we are very orthopraxic in that way

If you act against the church you are in apostasy.

His argument is that based on the promises one makes in the Temple, Romney is potentially going to do whatever the Church tails him to do.

Bryant

[riderinthestorm]

51. So voicing criticism is an "action"?

Based upon what you know of the Temple "promises", do you think Romney will be beholden to the church?

[el_bryanto]

52. Actively working to destroy faith is an action.

And in theory yes, in practice no.

Bryant

[riderinthestorm]

53. Why do you think Mitt will abrogate the promises he's made in the temple?

Again, zero snark, I am truly interested.

Wouldn't that demonstrate outright disobedience to the church, and why wouldn't THAT be seen as apostasy? It would certainly seem to be a larger demonstration of holding the church's sacred promises in contempt than criticism?

[el_bryanto]

57. It's not a matter of him refusing to obey commands

It's a matter of I don't believe those commands will be issued.

I don't believe the Church will tell him how to act as President.

Bryant

[Canuckistanian]

37. The nail that sticks up will get hammered down

I see the LDS church doesn't brook any criticism of "the chosen one"

[MariaM83]

38. reply to MissMarple/'the Catholic Church doesn't discipline Catholics bcz of their political views.'

"Priests and bishops across America are being urged by members to refuse Communion to the first Catholic to run for the presidency since John F. Kennedy. The sanction would be imposed until Mr Kerry abandoned his permissive views on abortion and other issues such as gay marriages."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1458510/Catholic-Church-will-refuse-Kerry-Communion.html


"American Catholic bishops are trying to defy secret advice from Rome that Communion should not be given to John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate.

The advice is contained in an explosive memo - clearly directed at Sen Kerry - by Cardinal Ratzinger, the Pope's doctrinal advisor, who is head of the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - the institutional heir to the Inquisition."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1466750/Dont-allow-Kerry-to-take-Communion-Vatican-chief-tells-US-Catholic-bishops.html

[MrMickeysMom]

42. If that's true, I don't blame them...

He's done enough to convince me they're nothing more than a of delusional cult.

I used to just think they were another religion, but I think they give the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth a punch in the gut.

[Cha]

46. The Church should ex-communicate

Romney if they're going to be Exing anyone.

[MariaM83]

48. you don't excommunicate $4 million a year -- that's just not how it's done nt

[backscatter712]

58. This is why I'm an atheist.

All religions do this. Mormonism, Christianity, Islam, etc.

Religion's most common use is as an othering tool - you're part of The Faith, or you're one of the enemies.

[fried eggs]

60. They are heavily invested in this election

Their ads are appearing in my phone apps!