If workers were paid a living wage there would be more taxpayers.

[Waiting For Everyman]

Also, if people could make ends meet on one job instead of two or three, more people would be employed -- the unemployment rate would go down because those second and third jobs would be employing others.

It's time to double the minimum wage, and set a maximum wage beyond which it's a 99% tax rate. The top tier has been overpaying themselves by underpaying the bottom. With a top income limit that would stop in a hurry. The inequality gap would quickly resolve itself.

Private billionaires are a threat to the stability of the country. Besides, most of the super rich got that way via the Bush tax cuts which they expect the rest of us to pay for, or the legalization of criminal activities via their lobbyists buying our law. They need to cough it up, and be glad they're not in jail (yet). There's no reason for us to follow through and pay for their ill-gotten windfall.

For these super rich to have the NERVE to actually COMPLAIN about the under-paid not paying taxes is adding insult to criminal theft.

Those arguments should be shoved back down their throats. Oh and btw, it really angers me when somebody talks about "asking" the wealthy to pay more. No, REQUIRE them to pay more. That's the language used for the rest of us. Who thinks like that, "ask" them?

[nichomachus]

1. And if billionaires paid their fair share

It wouldn't matter if minimum wage earners paid taxes or not.

[jody]

2. If the cost of labor increases it will force the price of products and services to increase. Not

necessarily 1 for 1 but the price of products and services will increase.

[Waiting For Everyman]

5. Not if the top stops raking in 8 and 9 figure compensation.

We might find that companies become very competitive that way. They certainly used to be, I see no reaon why that would be differnt now.

[jody]

8. You need to study economics 101. nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

10. I have.

[jody]

17. Then take what you learned, start your own business, and prove your theory. nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

18. I've started and run several, how many have you? n/t

[jody]

19. Prove your assertion by posting your income tax records below. nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

20. Lol! Sure.

You forgot to tell me how many you've started.

[laundry_queen]

33. Have you studied macro?

When you increase wages, a certain amount of goods may increase in price, however that increase is never the entire amount of the increase in wage, and the difference is usually put into savings. Not a bad thing.

[jody]

42. See #2 nt

[hack89]

53. How does that apply to small businesses?

where I live, the majority of jobs are either public sector or small local business. Those small businesses don't make that kind of money.

[abelenkpe]

13. I call bullshit

I've worked in animation for decades. I remember the excuse for shipping hand drawn animation overseas was that US labor cost too much. But I personally know directors and producers who have shown that to be false by producing shows in the US using union labor creating shows for less than it costs to send work overseas. But big multinational corporations aren't interested in hiring locally despite the costs. The belief that sending work overseas saved money was popular with investors which led to higher stock prices and CEO bonuses. For years CEOs have seen their pay increase, their bonuses get larger while laying off US workers and decimating local communities not only in my profession but in all industries across the nation. If workers don't make enough money to get by it puts more pressure on local governments by reducing tax revenue and increasing dependency on government programs. Communities wither and die while money gets funneled to the top. OTOH, Pay workers a living wage or better and demand increases and the local economy flourishes. Other countries recognize that and that is why they lure industries to relocate there.

If we're really serious about cutting down on labor costs it wouldn't hurt to limit CEO pay to something reasonable like 40 times that of the average worker. And do something to combat tax subsidies from other countries that bribe work away from the US. But that will never happen. Gotta feed the investor class that values stock price increases over producing products in the US employing americans.

[jody]

16. Cursing does not alter the economic facts of production. Central committees have tried to set cost

of labor, prices for goods and services, and dictate items produced but Russia and China found that didn't work.

Why do you think you can succeed when they failed?

[abelenkpe]

23. Why was our most prosperous time when our unions and middle class were strong.

To compare my post to central committees is absurd. But from reading your other posts here and in other threads today I see you parrot many right wing talking points so I'm not surprised.

[jody]

24. Thanks for reading my other posts. Back to the issue, how do you believe raising the minimum wage

ceteris paribus, will not raise the cost of goods and services forcing an increase of prices for those goods and services?

[leftstreet]

30. Then labor can then afford the higher costs

Or are you just making the case for protecting the 'middle' class from those icky higher prices?

[PD Turk]

44. answer me this if you would

Why is it that increases in line workers wages makes the price of goods and services but the CEO and top execs can get all the increases they want without prices going up?

[jody]

45. I never said that. nt

[PD Turk]

46. I didn't say you did

Its just for years I've heard all the noise about how higher labor costs translates to higher costs for goods and servicesand runaway inflation,but the people that always toss that mantra out there never seem to want to explain why the guys at the top getting a boost doesn't do the same thing.

I thought since you had a background in economics maybe you could shed a little light on that for me.

[jody]

47. Don’t confuse how a business distributes profits it earns among all classes of labor and

artificially increasing the cost of labor by a government established wage.

The former deals with increased profits to which capital and all classes of labor contribute. Competition should erode those profits over time as we see occurring in the cell phone industry causing businesses to search for changes that can maintain or increase market share.

The latter ignores any profits thereby causing some businesses operating at the margin of profitability to close.

[PD Turk]

49. Fair enough

So what's the answer? How do we stop the abuse of the working class? We have been sliding downhill for decades and there's no sign of it turning around. Organized labor has been decimated and there's nobody left to stand up for us anymore.

[jody]

55. Good question. I’ll let Obama answer it because he has access to the best brains on the

planet.

[PD Turk]

56. Well I hope he wins

And I hope he can help us turn things around, a lot of us out here are pretty scarred up and damn tired of waiting for it to get better.

[Yavin4]

50. What's So Horrible About Slightly Higher Prices Any Way?

This nation has made consumption and low prices its top economic priority. It's what drives outsourcing and off shoring. it's why WalMart exists.

Why not have higher paid workers, slightly higher prices, higher incomes for labor, and more savings? What's so terrible about that?

So, you have to pay more than $20 for a flat screen TV. We can survive that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

68. We just print more money, and everything balances out. No problem.

Forget the fact that more money lowers buying power and increases the price of EVERYTHING.

Where can I get one of those $20 flat screens? I'm gonna buy 4!

[fascisthunter]

51. no it wouldn't...

... it would just make the greedy fuckers charge more. Maybe you should be forced somehow to work for the minimum wages. After all, most of our lives are predetermined by circumstances... maybe you should be forced to understand that. Karma will catch up...

[Incitatus]

57. So what is your suggestion to stop the shrinking middle class?

[jody]

69. #55

[Incitatus]

78. That's kind of a cop out.

You seem to know enough to bash everyone's suggestions. I thought you might know enough to have an idea

[jody]

79. LOL I'll comment on a president's answer to your question. Why don't you write a LTTE and ask

publicly for the president to answer your question.

If what you pose is an important question then you deserve an answer.

If a president ignores you then you be the judge of that non response but don't blame me.

[Incitatus]

80. Yeah, that's about the response I expected. Nt

[jody]

81. What's your problem, don't you trust our president to give you a coherent answer? nt

[Edweird]

71. Well sure, to maintain profit margains.That's understandable.

Labor cost is generally a fraction of the overall cost of a product. Decades ago when I managed a well known pizza restaurant our labor cost was around 30% of 'cost of sales'.

I believe that raising the minimum wage to a living wage would benefit the economy as a whole. People would have money to spend on things other than the barest of necessities. They could get their own place. Buy a car. Spend money on local entertainment. In short, I believe it would be an enormous boost to the economy.

[jody]

73. You acknowledge a raise in cost of labor affects profits. I assume you understand that businesses

operating close to unprofitable might close so that employer and employees will become unemployed unless they can raise prices.

Do you want government to control price or will you allow prices to seek their natural level based upon the decisions made by consumers?

If prices are free to increase, a new state will be reached not too dissimilar from the pre-wage change state.

Absent price control and import tariffs, production of goods will seek lower labor costs that maximize profits as in China etc. or within the United States as with automotive plants leaving Michigan and California for states with right to work laws.

In any case, our presidents have access to the best brains on the planet and I'm sure they will recommend economic policies that will reduce our budget deficit and restore full employment -- won't they?

[abelenkpe]

3. Agree completely

I also love how businessmen on the right like to say "they built that" while paying their workers so little that their workers need government assistance to get healthcare. That those same businessmen turn around and disparage the workers the take advantage of for being needy and advocate doing away with the government programs that support these same workers is sickening.

Republicans are repulsive delusional scum.

[dkf]

4. Then they can be like the newspaper owner that just shut down the business for showing Kate's

topless pics.

He didn't need the money so he just quit.

[Waiting For Everyman]

7. Let them. The almighty market will adjust to meet the demands that are there, right?

Or where was the company's income coming from in the first place? If a demand exists, another company will form to meet it. Isn't that the basic logic?

[dkf]

9. Lots of media nowadays. But for the workers, will they replace their income?

[Waiting For Everyman]

11. If a demand is there, a new company forms, the workers get hired -- not complicated. n/t

[abelenkpe]

14. Cant have demand if workers don't make decent wages. nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

15. Exactly, and that's our problem.

Common sense should tell us than an economy which excludes most of the people, can't do much. A small percentage of super rich can never create enough activity to substitute for a broad-based economy. It's nonsense.

[cpamomfromtexas]

6. Precisely, and those 2nd and 3rd jobs

would need to provide benefits in order to have people to do those jobs.

We need to get the "free market" actually working FOR workers not against them. Employers need to start competing for good people again!

[PowerToThePeople]

12. It also squeezes those that are above minimun

closer to minimum, as they will not see any wage increases. If left unchecked, all but executives will be working for minimum wage.

There has to be a better plan than this.

[hughee99]

21. Why just double it? Let's make it $50/hr

Then everyone making minimum wage makes about 100k a year. If minimum wage is 100k a year, why do you care how much the CEO makes?

[PowerToThePeople]

25. This is why.

If the lowest pay was 100k/year:

Gas 20$/gallon
Gallon of milk 25$
Studio apt rent $8k-25k/month (depending on location)
New Kia - $100k
Cell phone 500$/month
on and on....

You think they would actually keep prices where they are currently?

[hughee99]

27. Actually, I agree with you

There are several people in this thread (and on other, similar, threads) who would tell you that this would not happen.

When you raise the minimum wage you're raising ALL wages. Good for the wage earners on payday, but it will cause prices to climb.

In any case, if the minimum wage affects the price of these things (and I agree that it does) than any increase would cause prices to go up as well, right? Even a small increase would cause prices to go up at least a small amount.

[PowerToThePeople]

29. not "raising ALL wages"

Just the minimum wage. many workers that were higher than minimum will now be minimum. Those in middle class will be pushed lower.

No wages will increase besides those that previously were below the new minimum.

[hughee99]

31. If you want to piss workers off,

Tell them the person that just got hired will be making the same as they do with their years of experience and additional responsibilities. I'm sure union workers wouldn't be happy about this either (not mad about a climb in minimum wage, but rather a lack of increase for those above the minimum wage). Especially when prices rise as a result.

[Edweird]

72. I'm Union. IBEW. Contract linework.

My trade depends on 2 things: 1) Construction. 2) Storms.
We haven't had a lot of either lately except for some big jobs that just opened up recently in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I'm all for anything that gets the economy going again. If we need to raise our wages to keep them in line with everything else, we can do so when our contract is up again. No worries.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

35. So people that have much more experience

would be making the same as someone just hired with no experience?

When minimum wage rises, other wages normally rise as well. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it happens, and it will result in some price inflation.

And a 99% tax above a certain income cap? Would you go to work in order to get 1% of your pay?

[PowerToThePeople]

36. Huh

where did you pull this 99% tax thing from?

Oh, your arse. Because I did not mentioned anything like that here.

And higher wage scales do not rise with minimum in my experience, as I make a similar salary as someone doing my job did 25 years ago. Wages have been basically flat since Reagan. I do not feel like digging up a source for this.

thanks for your comment...

[SickOfTheOnePct]

38. Did you read the OP?

It specifically mentioned a 99% tax rate.

So no, not out of my arse.

I can't speak to your experience, only to mine. Whenver I've worked in jobs that had minimum wage positions, when minimum wage rose, everyone elses wages rose as well.

[PowerToThePeople]

40. ok, my apologies.

since your response was to me, not the OP, I thought you were talking about what I said.

Here is a link to wages over time.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/31/wages-arent-stagnating-theyre-plummeting/

[SickOfTheOnePct]

41. No worries

I should have been clearer initially that the reference to 99% was in the OP and not your post.

[laundry_queen]

34. And that happens because the entire premise of the system is faulty

We need a new system, period.

When wages go up, companies will raise their prices to try to recoup their level of *PROFITS*, not because they can't afford to pay high wages. The whole stock market (aka casino) is based on perpetual growth, which is impossible on a finite planet (although there is a school of thought that believes humans will always be smart enough to come up with new technologies to make our resources go that much further so we can grow forever - what bunk and how arrogant.) Companies raise wages because they don't want profits to *not grow*. The problem is, even with large wage increases, these companies will still make tremendous profits but that isn't good enough. The shareholders want continuous GROWTH of profits. The entire thing is like one big pyramid scheme where the ones on the bottom get screwed.

It used to be that companies knew about corporate responsibility and paid their workers fair wages. They were content to make a decent profit every year. Now it's become like the Hunger Games for companies.

[PowerToThePeople]

37. There is only so much planet to go around.

Not getting any more Mother Earth.

[laundry_queen]

39. Yep.

Which is why the system will eventually collapse.

[Flashmann]

22. paid a living wage there would be more taxpayers

Yep.....But that's talking logic and sense towards people who are immune to such pestillences...

[Octafish]

26. Perfectly stated.

Thank you, Waiting For Everyman!

[porphyrian]

28. . n/t

[hifiguy]

32. There is no better way to reduce the defecit

than to have a millions of well-paid workers paying taxes. Except for getting the 1% to start paying their fair share.

[eurekaworkers]

43. Eureka Fair Wage Act $12.00 for Large Employers - Small Business Exempt

Minimum Wage Factoids

62% of all Minimum Wage Workers are Women

“In 2011 more than 62 percent of minimum-wage workers were women compared to just 38 percent of male minimum-wage workers. Slightly more than 2.5 million women earn the minimum wage or less, while approximately 1.5 million men do. This imbalance is even more drastic once you consider that women were just 46.9 percent of all employed workers in 2011.”

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2012/06/women_minimumwage.html

2 of 3 Minimum Wage Employees Work for Large Profitable Corporations:

Two out of three low wage workers are employed by large corporations with more than 100 employees:

http://www.nelp.org/blog/entry/dol_issues_over_248000_in_penalties_to_walmart_supplier/

Raising the Minimum Wage is a Job Booster, Not a “Job Killer”

“A significant body of academic research has found that raising the minimum wage does not result in job losses even during hard economic times.

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2012/06/minimum_wage.html

$12.00 An Hour Will Raise A Worker Out of Poverty

A $12.00 an hour wage, while not a “living wage,” will lift a worker working 34 hours a week over the Federal poverty level for an individual in Humboldt County.

http://fairwages.org

The Gasoline Index 1968-2012

In 1968 an hour’s pay at minimum wage ( $1.60) would buy almost 5 gallons of gasoline (@ $0.33/ gal.) but today in Eureka an hour’s minimum wage ($8.00) will buy a little less than 2 gallons of gasoline (@ $4.37 per gallon.)

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html

Today’s Minimum Wage Worker is $7,000 Poorer Than a 1968 Worker

At $7.25 an hour, today’s full-time minimum wage retail worker, security guard, child care worker or health aide makes just $15,080 a year. Last century’s 1968 minimum wage worker made $21,944 a year, adjusted for inflation.

http://letjusticeroll.org/news/001216-raise-minimum-wage-raise-america

Worker Productivity Grew, Worker’s Wages Shrank

Worker productivity grew 80 percent from 1973 to 2011. The average worker wage fell 7 percent, adjusted for inflation.

http://letjusticeroll.org/news/001216-raise-minimum-wage-raise-america

The Reduction of Minimum Wage Value Has Cratered the Middle Class

In 2010, our nation’s economy was growing, but most Americans didn’t feel it because 93 percent of the income growth went to the richest 1 percent. The bottom 90 percent of Americans got none. It sure wasn’t always like that. Between 1938, when the federal minimum wage was first enacted, and 1968, when it peaked in value, the bottom 90 percent of households shared 69 percent of the nation’s income growth. The middle class was able to grow.

http://letjusticeroll.org/news/001216-raise-minimum-wage-raise-america

California Has the Lowest Minimum Wage on the West Coast

California $8.00
Oregon $8.80
Washington $9.04
Nevada $8.25

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

Minimum Wage Factoid: Raising the Minimum Wage is Overwhelmi​ngly Supported by the Public

This June, a Zogby Analytics survey of likely voters found seven out of 10 supporting a raise above $10 an hour (including 54 percent of Republicans). Notably, 71 percent of young people (18 to 23 years old) favored it. Likewise, last November’s “American Values Survey” by the Public Religion Research Institute showed two-thirds of Americans in favor of a $10-per-hour minimum.

Jim Hightower http://www.nationalmemo.com/our-disgraceful-minimum-wage/

Defending the Community

$12.00 Minimum Wage for Large Employers

http://fairwages.org

http://eurekafairwageact.wordpress.com

email: [e-mail]

Get Involved, Your Skillset is Needed!

[hay rick]

48. Two things billionaires hate.

They hate the 47% who are too poor to pay taxes AND they hate raising the minimum wage. Do they really have anybody to blame for this mess but themselves?

K&R.

[fascisthunter]

52. yes, but folks like jody would have to cut back on leisures in life

and well, we all can't have that, because that person is speshullll.

[fascisthunter]

59. Love You

can I adopt you as a additional mom? Glad to see you around!

[HangOnKids]

60. My kids would be jealous

But I would gladly make room for you on the sofa. ANYTIME! It's leather and red BTW. Very cozy place to rest your head.

[fascisthunter]

61. HA! Back from Italy?

[HangOnKids]

62. Yah. In No CA Now

Raising the kidlet in Wine Country. She has it in her bones.

[fascisthunter]

63. Awesome... wine country, huh?

you wouldn't be squeezing any grapes out there would you? As in having a vineyard?

[HangOnKids]

64. Small one

Don't tell anyone.

[fascisthunter]

65. ha ha Ha!!!! Awesome!

Best of luck!!!!!!

[Zax2me]

54. You cannot implement these changes without violating our Constitution.

Or changing it dramatically.
A 99% tax rate?
Good luck.

[Major Nikon]

66. Increasing the minimum wage and raising taxes on the rich is unconstitutional?

Quite telling that you would think so.

[Edweird]

70. In 1944 and 1945 the top tax rate was 94%. What constitutional violations took place?

What dramatic changes? I am unaware of them so please substantiate your post with verifiable facts.

[Major Nikon]

67. I'm all for raising the minimum wage, but I have a better idea

The problem with setting a minimum wage is there are too many employers that are simply going to pay whatever the minimum is that they can legally get away with. So I see raising the minimum wage as really a stop-gap measure. The real solution is changing anti-union laws and regulations that make it harder for employees to collectively bargain. Strong unionization is the real answer to raising the status of the middle class.

[Edweird]

74. I think they can both work together. Not everyone will be union.

[Major Nikon]

75. I agree

Honestly I'd be ecstatic if we ever got to 50% of the workforce which will never happen in my lifetime. That's why there always should be a minimum wage that is at the living wage level, if not a family wage level or higher. It's just that unions afford the opportunity to exceed those levels considerably. So if your only goal is to raise the most disadvantage boats above water, raising the minimum wage does that for you. But if you want to go farther, a more reasonable minimum wage and stronger union representation means all boats get raised, even to a lesser degree those at the top.

[Egalitarian Thug]

76. Yes. Collective bargaining created the middle-class and the benefits they gained for their

members filtered throughout the nation. People have forgotten, or never knew, the reason that so many horribly anti-worker laws were passed in the first place. America was on the verge of either revolution or worker parity in the early part of the last century. Now, we are re-learning the lessons they had.

There is no unity, it has always been them vs. us. They have always sought to steal far more than a fair share. Once again the worm is turning.

[Major Nikon]

82. I'm not convinced there can be no unity

But I won't deny it's very unlikely. Prior to unions, the middle class was pretty much non-existent. You were most likely either a have or a have not. Unions ushered in the age of the middle class, but it turns out that what's good for the middle class was good for everyone. Poverty was reduced and tremendous growth resulted, which even made the rich richer. This is nothing more than keynesian economics. The right wing believes incorrectly that if you allow the rich to make more money, that will somehow trickle on everyone else, but this concept fails because growth is not created solely by excessive money supply. Growth is created by demand and there's no better way to create demand than a prosperous middle class.

[Egalitarian Thug]

83. I don't think there can never be, just that there hasn't yet and won't be as long as they

believe there is a possibility of winning.

[Marr]

77. Yep. First they depress wages, then they complain that we're not paying enough income tax.

I guess we should all just cash in some stocks, borrow a few million from mom and dad, and start a vulture capital outfit.