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PCIntern

(25,924 posts)
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:19 AM Aug 2020

I am seriously thinking of leaving the country if He is re-elected

The answer to the obvious question is that I do not want to live with a people who would do this again. Period. I can practice dentistry anywhere or teach. I can barely deal with this now much less if he’s validated as a leader.

I have professional and academic connections in Israel and despite everything going on there, at least I can return to my roots for my final years. There is very little left for me here in any sense. And yes, I can still contribute here on DU!!!

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I am seriously thinking of leaving the country if He is re-elected (Original Post) PCIntern Aug 2020 OP
Given how disease-ridden we are here, murielm99 Aug 2020 #1
Yes PCIntern Aug 2020 #5
Israel has a nationalist government too. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2020 #22
Nationalism is inherent in the very idea of a "Jewish state" (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Aug 2020 #86
DU has an *Americans Abroad* subgroup that people appalachiablue Aug 2020 #61
I wish that was an option for me but even if it was, Canada's border is closed. Siwsan Aug 2020 #2
We're in the same boat. MurrayDelph Aug 2020 #21
My maternal grandfather immigrated from somewhere in eastern Europe Siwsan Aug 2020 #26
Did your dad renounce his citizenship before you were born? Mariana Aug 2020 #100
Sometimes I think Canada isn't far enough away. Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2020 #24
Us too. lark Aug 2020 #3
Right now NZ isn't letting anyone in who isn't already a citizen. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #13
I know we'd have to guarantine for 3 weeks. lark Aug 2020 #16
Not sure what kind of connections your friends have, PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #46
We most likely will end up Meowmee Aug 2020 #4
I am so jelly! In my next life I'm going to be Canadian. You guys are the best! OMGWTF Aug 2020 #51
Wish you could be🤗 Meowmee Aug 2020 #105
Don't pack your bags just yet. I don't think it's likely. lpbk2713 Aug 2020 #6
Thank you for that. We need some postive thinking here. It's not all gloom & doom yet... Illumination Aug 2020 #48
I think the Postal Service sabotage is enough Castiel Aug 2020 #112
I know how you feel. I am to old to leave now, but I felt the marybourg Aug 2020 #7
If he's re-elected AND we do not take back the Senate and keep the House, LaMouffette Aug 2020 #8
I think if it steals another election, there will be a great schism WheelWalker Aug 2020 #9
They would simply start a civil war and occupy blue states DSandra Aug 2020 #40
There are a lot of liberals with guns. Castiel Aug 2020 #113
nuking the west coast would be pretty stupid Squidly Aug 2020 #128
I told my brother that if Trump wins, we're leaving the country for four years. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Aug 2020 #63
He's not a legitimate president now. Talk of him winning (again) is a non sequitur. WheelWalker Aug 2020 #84
Correction. If Fat Donnie cheats his way into the WH again, we're taking a four year vacation. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Aug 2020 #139
I definitely understand. Mike 03 Aug 2020 #10
Absolutely! Everyone should have a plan (or maybe several). Illumination Aug 2020 #54
Kudos to you and anyone else who chooses to leave. This is no way to live Thekaspervote Aug 2020 #11
Have you seen the list of countries PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #12
Here's their list of 14-day quarantine countries. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #15
Useful info. Thanks for the link! Illumination Aug 2020 #55
Exactly. Where you gonna go? MrsCoffee Aug 2020 #133
I moved to BC in 2012, haven't regretted a single day Fiendish Thingy Aug 2020 #14
I should have left for Canada years ago. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #17
I just retired last year, and draw on my SS Fiendish Thingy Aug 2020 #23
Seriously?! Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #28
I get my Social Security deposited directly into my French bank account. GoneOffShore Aug 2020 #30
If I remember correctly you are in Lyon? One of my favorite cities in Europe. GulfCoast66 Aug 2020 #98
We're in Aix-en-Provence. With Covid getting a visa right now is difficult. GoneOffShore Aug 2020 #125
Me and my family are considering France Castiel Aug 2020 #115
We're in Aix-en-Provence. With Covid getting a visa right now is difficult. GoneOffShore Aug 2020 #126
Interesting thanks. Castiel Aug 2020 #138
They probably had a good defined benefit pension at Mitsubishi? Fiendish Thingy Aug 2020 #42
For now Traildogbob Aug 2020 #43
Can you take in an American orphan? Illumination Aug 2020 #57
Sorry, but I can put you in touch with a good immigration lawyer nt Fiendish Thingy Aug 2020 #58
Actually, Fiendish Thingy I was joking. However, who knows about the future! Care to share? Illumination Aug 2020 #60
I know...check your messages nt Fiendish Thingy Aug 2020 #65
Thank you! Illumination Aug 2020 #69
Why should I be the one who has to leave? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2020 #18
I'm not leaving but I might sell everything and live in an RV Buckeyeblue Aug 2020 #19
I have thought about that too in the past. FM123 Aug 2020 #20
Several years ago an acquaintance of mine moved to Panama. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #79
Yes, that's true. Each of those countries had specific requirements to establish residency. FM123 Aug 2020 #87
I have a permanent resident visa from Panama stamped in my expired US passport. mnhtnbb Aug 2020 #132
Hubs and I would love to live in Donegal, Ireland but we're too dang old to make such a move! cornball 24 Aug 2020 #25
Not to be personal, but how old are you? We made the first tentative jump to France in 2017 GoneOffShore Aug 2020 #33
Hubs is 85 and I am 78-certified old coots! I just found my dream home online in Donegal- cornball 24 Aug 2020 #83
That's a tough call. Though I have a friend here who was 79 when she moved to France 3 yrs ago. GoneOffShore Aug 2020 #88
Ireland or Scotland are top on my list Castiel Aug 2020 #116
Good luck to you. You may want to make the move overseas even if sanity returns. GoneOffShore Aug 2020 #27
True. I knew that. PCIntern Aug 2020 #29
My BiL is Conservadox, lives in Jerusalem and he hates Mango Mussolini. GoneOffShore Aug 2020 #34
That's great and all. Good luck, but remember Politicub Aug 2020 #31
Easier said than done ashredux Aug 2020 #32
Your one of the lucky ones DSandra Aug 2020 #35
It is also very possible as a student. nt Celerity Aug 2020 #129
Trump rso Aug 2020 #36
Great point! One person here asked why HE has to leave!? I'm thinking people are very Illumination Aug 2020 #74
I would too BUT elleng Aug 2020 #37
Are we going to be allowed? AwakeAtLast Aug 2020 #38
Upthread there are several posts by people who've checked appalachiablue Aug 2020 #53
My partner and I started our expat planning before 2016 sanatanadharma Aug 2020 #39
Dementia bucolic_frolic Aug 2020 #41
You'll be part of a mass exodus, I'm sure. Native Aug 2020 #44
Since no one wants us, this is going to be more difficult lettucebe Aug 2020 #45
I'm right there with you LostinRed Aug 2020 #47
Well, it's sad when you hear this that I'll leave the Country etc. etc. etc. I'd like to think that SWBTATTReg Aug 2020 #49
There isn't a country that I can afford that offers what I have here. Kaleva Aug 2020 #50
yep llashram Aug 2020 #52
I admit. I do think about Ireland every so often. n/t Bonhomme Richard Aug 2020 #56
I know it's great to be prepared but should we focus on winning until Nov? AlexSFCA Aug 2020 #59
He will not be re-elected. There are more of us and we are coming to reclaim our country Brentar Aug 2020 #62
I would not mind leaving if he was re-elected..The only thing helpisontheway Aug 2020 #64
I would. moondust Aug 2020 #66
Costa Rica, Belieze, Canada, South Viet Nam ... marble falls Aug 2020 #67
Canada is pretty strict about who they let in. Kaleva Aug 2020 #89
See ya' in Belize! nt flamin lib Aug 2020 #68
I would move to a bluer state or region. roamer65 Aug 2020 #70
Easier to surrender than fight zaj Aug 2020 #71
Hear, hear!! Missn-Hitch Aug 2020 #75
Some things aren't worth fighting for. Mariana Aug 2020 #123
A Third Great Migration will happen. djacq Aug 2020 #72
The wife and I are looking at some acreage on Canadian border. Missn-Hitch Aug 2020 #73
I'll carry your bags. n/t Harker Aug 2020 #76
Few places are letting us in these days Warpy Aug 2020 #77
I waver Rorey Aug 2020 #78
Y'all do know that Medicare won't Pay for your treatment in a foreign country? raccoon Aug 2020 #80
Yeah shanti Aug 2020 #108
If someone resides in a country with a real health care system Mariana Aug 2020 #122
I was hoping to be an expat. BBbats Aug 2020 #81
So disappointing about Philly environs you describe.. appalachiablue Aug 2020 #97
67 is not elderly. Senior citizen, yeah. Elderly, no. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #135
I would do the same if younger Martin Eden Aug 2020 #82
Damn, It seems that a lot of good Democrats are jumping ship. panader0 Aug 2020 #85
As soon as my parents pass, we are leaving essme Aug 2020 #90
Panama... Pensionado Visa, retired gringo live like king. Baked Potato Aug 2020 #91
To be fair, "we" didn't do it last time. DFW Aug 2020 #92
I've seriously thought about Guam maxrandb Aug 2020 #93
Kick appalachiablue Aug 2020 #94
I would never let that fascist piece of shit run me out of my own country Skittles Aug 2020 #95
I wish I had the means to leave Dukkha Aug 2020 #96
I think you are not alone... jimlup Aug 2020 #99
Serious question... who is taking Americans? KentuckyWoman Aug 2020 #101
Do what I did. I made the promise in 2016 GusBob Aug 2020 #102
We'll probably go to the UK. Mariana Aug 2020 #103
You're so lucky. Castiel Aug 2020 #117
If the UK hadn't Brexited, it would be higher on my list Silent3 Aug 2020 #118
I wish the UK hadn't Brexited. Mariana Aug 2020 #120
Me too. Already looking up places. ecstatic Aug 2020 #104
LEAVE, IT'S THE COURAGEOUS THING TO DO Demonaut Aug 2020 #106
He who runs away lives to run away another day. PCIntern Aug 2020 #107
intercine protesting Demonaut Aug 2020 #109
You assume borders will be open to you. Stinky The Clown Aug 2020 #110
I've been researching how to leave as well Castiel Aug 2020 #111
When I was doing my research, you had to be in a field like a health professional or an engineer... DSandra Aug 2020 #130
The USA isn't family. It's just a job. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #114
We hear this every four years. You may well leave if he wins, but 99.9% (at least) of those who say Dial H For Hero Aug 2020 #119
You're right, of course, but I think this time the numbers might be a bit higher Silent3 Aug 2020 #121
Trump and the Republicans are SOOO close to ending democracy now DSandra Aug 2020 #134
There's not going to be a bloody revolution. Christianity will not become our official relgion. Dial H For Hero Aug 2020 #136
Trump rules with impunity, and the Republicans have been working on destroying democracy... DSandra Aug 2020 #137
Mine wouldn't be a permanent move, more of a series Totally Tunsie Aug 2020 #124
If you have done your homework in advance, then follow your inclinations DFW Aug 2020 #127
My husband and I have talked about this periodically since 2000. MoonRiver Aug 2020 #131

appalachiablue

(41,636 posts)
61. DU has an *Americans Abroad* subgroup that people
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:48 PM
Aug 2020

might be interested in. Some work abroad, other comments about planning to move and from expats.

*Americans Abroad (Group)*
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1009

Siwsan

(26,699 posts)
2. I wish that was an option for me but even if it was, Canada's border is closed.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:28 AM
Aug 2020

And that's just one thing among other obstacles. Even if the borders were open, I'm retired so my only hope for consideration is that my financial portfolio is good enough for them to see I am totally self-supporting. And I think even that would be a long shot for consideration.

My total fantasy escape would be to a cottage, somewhere in the wilds of the north of Wales. That's an even longer shot than Canada. So, if the worst happens, my only option is to just sit and wait for history and/or nature to take its course. I'd certainly take no extra measures to stick around.

MurrayDelph

(5,354 posts)
21. We're in the same boat.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:31 PM
Aug 2020

Canada is a four-hour drive, and we can get in. And despite being retired for ten years, I applied for a job at HP Canada, hoping my 16 years teaching OpenVMS could help get me a tech support job there. They never answered.

If it weren't for the lockdown, I'd be down to the Czech Consulate in L.A. with my crumbling family papers (my dad was born in Czechoslovakia, as it was called back then, 102 years ago) trying to get dual-citizenship to an EU country.

And my wife and I would have been to Puerto Rico to research her mother's papers, as Puerto Rico has a second passport for its people, and a Puerto Rican passport severely reduces residency requirements for citizenship in Spain (which is where my wife has been looking at real estate online).

Siwsan

(26,699 posts)
26. My maternal grandfather immigrated from somewhere in eastern Europe
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:43 PM
Aug 2020

I THINK, but might be wrong, that he came from what was the old Austro/Hungarian empire, or somewhere near that part of the continent. My cousin went back to see the area, and just RAVES about it.

As for me, I feel more identification with my paternal family - western Europe.

Mariana

(14,879 posts)
100. Did your dad renounce his citizenship before you were born?
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 09:21 PM
Aug 2020

If he didn't, you may very well be a Czech citizen.

If your dad became a naturalized US citizen, don't assume he lost Czech citizenship doing that. My husband asked at the British Consulate if he would lose his UK citizenship if he renounced it during his US naturalization ceremony. They told him, essentially, that it didn't matter what he said to the Americans. He remains a citizen of the UK unless and until he formally renounces to them following their procedures for doing so.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,462 posts)
24. Sometimes I think Canada isn't far enough away.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:36 PM
Aug 2020

Fascist regimes like elbow room and natural resources.

lark

(23,507 posts)
3. Us too.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:28 AM
Aug 2020

We have friends in NZ in one of the less populous areas and they have said we could come live there and even buy a house. They keep calling us telling us our government is trying to kill us and we need to move there for sanity and safety's sake. If the nazis steal the election again, I don't think I can take it here. I really don't want to move so far away, but we can't get into Canada - already tried. Mainly, though, I don't want to live here under a nazi regime that will come out of the shadows and destroy the working class and retirement system by stealing it all for the rich.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,027 posts)
13. Right now NZ isn't letting anyone in who isn't already a citizen.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:56 AM
Aug 2020

So that country is going to be completely out of the question for the foreseeable future.

lark

(23,507 posts)
16. I know we'd have to guarantine for 3 weeks.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:04 PM
Aug 2020

Our friends have absolutely guaranteed that we could move there, they have connections. We;d stay with them for awhile, think they said 90 days, then we could be eligible to buy a house. 60 days after a vaccine is available here, we'll get it, then go there for several weeks to check things out and see if Jen is right. Obviously we are going nowhere until a vaccine has proven effective. After that, we will go and check it out ourselves and hope for the best.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,027 posts)
46. Not sure what kind of connections your friends have,
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:19 PM
Aug 2020

but if NZ isn't letting any non-citizens in at all, until that changes, you aren't going to get in. Do lots of research. Most countries have good information on line about what it takes to move there, become a permanent resident, obtain citizenship.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
4. We most likely will end up
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:28 AM
Aug 2020

Back in Canada at some point either full or part time. We are citizens so they have to let us back, I expect there will be a quarantine for covid etc still by then. For me it will mean retirement. I think the economy will totally sink if what we all fear happens.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
105. Wish you could be🤗
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:05 PM
Aug 2020

I don’t know if I am really Canadian anymore, but people often tell me they hear something different in my accent, but I tend to mimic wherever I am, when I was younger anyway. My mom was Scottish so there is some of that too.

I have lived here since I was a child but I did not become a citizen until my 20’s in order not to lose Canadian citizenship. And now it seems it was very wise. I need several expensive devices and tons of supplies to keep me alive and to have any quality of life. Some may not be covered or covered completely for me there. Each province is different. But supposedly what we save on health costs for ins here would let me get what I need. And I don’t think I would be able to work there, maybe something like pet sitting etc. With the pandemic I am not sure what will happen with my job here, it seems ok for now anyway but there are no guarantees.

I am used to living here and would prefer that but there may be no alternative. My life will change drastically. I will most likely try to keep working here as long as I can unless my health fails more. That was already the tentative plan anyway before all of this. It does make me angry that good people will be forced to leave and so many don’t have that alternative. The traitors and fascists are the ones who should leave.

lpbk2713

(42,907 posts)
6. Don't pack your bags just yet. I don't think it's likely.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:31 AM
Aug 2020


He would need so much help from Putin that it would have to be obvious in
some respect. They couldn't pull off a crime that big without being noticed.


Castiel

(52 posts)
112. I think the Postal Service sabotage is enough
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:36 PM
Aug 2020

considering how many people are voting by mail this year.

marybourg

(12,762 posts)
7. I know how you feel. I am to old to leave now, but I felt the
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:33 AM
Aug 2020

exact same way in 2012 for Obama’s second term. DH and I were steeling ourselves to move south to Mexico if Obama was rejected.

This situation is far more dire. I truly don’t think our democracy could survive another term of the malevolent nincompoop. But I don’t think it will come to that. I think we and your patients will still be lucky enough to keep you with us for the immediate future.

LaMouffette

(2,091 posts)
8. If he's re-elected AND we do not take back the Senate and keep the House,
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:33 AM
Aug 2020

that might be a very wise decision.

We HAVE to win the Senate and keep the House. Just plain have to.

WheelWalker

(9,030 posts)
9. I think if it steals another election, there will be a great schism
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:40 AM
Aug 2020

and much of America could well leave The Union, beginning with the west coast states.

DSandra

(1,012 posts)
40. They would simply start a civil war and occupy blue states
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:03 PM
Aug 2020

And then suffocate the blue states because they have the guns and weaponry. Unless of course we are better fighters than they think...

I still wouldn’t put it past them to nuke San Francisco, they hate it with a passion.

Castiel

(52 posts)
113. There are a lot of liberals with guns.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:37 PM
Aug 2020

Just because we aren't as obsessed with them as Rethuglicans are, there are tons of armed liberals/Democrats.

And blue states control the economy. Without California and New York, the US couldn't function. Most of the military hates Trump now too, so I doubt they'd support his coup.

Squidly

(786 posts)
128. nuking the west coast would be pretty stupid
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 06:03 AM
Aug 2020

considering the prevailing winds would blow the fallout right back on them.

The other thing to consider, the rest of the world hates the orange menace enough that we would have plenty of allies and support around the world.

Unfortunately a civil war here could eventually spark a world war

63. I told my brother that if Trump wins, we're leaving the country for four years.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:50 PM
Aug 2020

It's not only that we don't want to live in a country where Fat Donnie is president -- we don't want to live in a country which would allow such a person to be president.

139. Correction. If Fat Donnie cheats his way into the WH again, we're taking a four year vacation.
Wed Aug 26, 2020, 04:16 PM
Aug 2020

There are still nine countries that will let us in.

President Carter said that Trump is an illegitimate president.

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
10. I definitely understand.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:42 AM
Aug 2020

I think it's prudent to make "a plan" of some kind for whatever eventuality occurs.

There are dramatic changes we can make and still remain in the country.

It's unfortunate: I have a LOT of relatives in Canada, but the pandemic situation has complicated any ideas about going there. That has been something I think about, but I'm pretty sure that I'll stay here, but I will make dramatic, dramatic changes.

It's good to think about these things, even if the scenario of Trump staying in office seems unlikely at this time.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,027 posts)
12. Have you seen the list of countries
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:55 AM
Aug 2020

that Americans are even allowed to visit these days? Here's a link to a recently updated list of countries Americans can even visit. Not sure how many of them would allow you to stay permanently.

https://www.traveloffpath.com/countries-that-have-reopened-for-american-tourists/

Fiendish Thingy

(16,404 posts)
14. I moved to BC in 2012, haven't regretted a single day
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:00 PM
Aug 2020

If Trump is re-elected, I will be renouncing my US citizenship, and probably assisting my kids and their spouses to immigrate here.

Since the Bush years, US citizens immigrating to Canada has doubled.

Since the Trump years, US citizens renouncing their citizenship has reached record highs.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/us/us-citizenship-renounced-data-trnd/index.html

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,905 posts)
17. I should have left for Canada years ago.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:04 PM
Aug 2020

Worked with several Canadians who lived here for work, and they convinced me it would be silly!

"What about your Social Security? You'll have to start over!" For cryin' out loud, I was only 30 years old!

I should have replied with what I was thinking back then. "There may not be Social Security in this country if the Republicans have their way!"

Edit: The Japanese-owned plant where they had worked in Canada was shut down, and several of them continued working for the company near me. Everything later moved to Mexico, so they probably just moved back North.

Fiendish Thingy

(16,404 posts)
23. I just retired last year, and draw on my SS
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:36 PM
Aug 2020

You don’t lose SS if you move to another country.

I have several income sources for retirement:

Social Security- 40 years’ worth
CalPERS- 10 years service
Fraser Health Authority pension - 7 years service
Plus our 401k/457 plans.

We haven’t even applied for our CPP (Canadian SS) yet, although it won’t be too much, probably $200-300, but as my dad used to say, “better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick”.

Oh, and everybody gets OAS (old age security) when they turn 65, whether they have worked or not- again, ours won’t be much since we will only have been in Canada for 10 years when we are eligible, but every little bit helps.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,905 posts)
28. Seriously?!
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:50 PM
Aug 2020

My fault for never verifying what they said!

I'm going to finally look up all that information!

Maybe they didn't think I had enough work credits for SS yet? Weird.

They also didn't seem particularly fond of Canada, yet boasted about their government benefits there! (It was a group of three guys who were all in their upper 50's. They had worked for years at a Mitsubishi plant up there.)

Thanks, btw!

GoneOffShore

(17,382 posts)
30. I get my Social Security deposited directly into my French bank account.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:53 PM
Aug 2020

And when Mrs GoS starts collecting in 15 months, we'll make the same arrangement.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
98. If I remember correctly you are in Lyon? One of my favorite cities in Europe.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 07:54 PM
Aug 2020

The wife and I will retire early with a pretty good monthly income. How hard was it to get permission to immigrate to France? Just buying property and showing a guaranteed income? I speak a little French and could pick it up pretty quickly. Not sure about the wife.

GoneOffShore

(17,382 posts)
125. We're in Aix-en-Provence. With Covid getting a visa right now is difficult.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 02:58 AM
Aug 2020

Last edited Mon Aug 24, 2020, 03:43 AM - Edit history (1)

We bought our place here in 2017, intending to go back and forth to the US. Then in early 2018 we decided to sell our house in Philadelphia and try to do the full time in France thing.

We applied for visa's in July 2018, got them two weeks after applying.

Here's the link to the French Embassy - https://franceintheus.org/ - it does give info about how to apply and what sort of visa you can get.

Initial visa applications are handled through VFS Global - https://visa.vfsglobal.com/can/en/fra/apply-visa

Here's more info https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en_US/

If you have questions, I'll try to answer them. You can always DM me.

Read 'The Bonjour Effect' and 'Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong' for a cultural insight.

There are also Facebook pages - Americans Retiring in France, and Americans Living in France. Lots of info there.


Castiel

(52 posts)
115. Me and my family are considering France
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:42 PM
Aug 2020

or Portugal if Trump wins again. How do you like living in France? My family is concerned about the language barrier and the France not being very welcoming to foreigners.

If I may ask, what region do you live in? We really want the Haute-Savoie area near the Alps, but are considering other options too.

GoneOffShore

(17,382 posts)
126. We're in Aix-en-Provence. With Covid getting a visa right now is difficult.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 03:02 AM
Aug 2020

Last edited Mon Aug 24, 2020, 03:39 AM - Edit history (1)

The French are very welcoming as long as you try to speak the language.

Read 'The Bonjour Effect' and 'Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong' for a cultural insight.

There are also Facebook pages - Americans Retiring in France, and Americans Living in France. Lots of info there.

https://france-visas.gouv.fr/en_US/

Castiel

(52 posts)
138. Interesting thanks.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 06:38 PM
Aug 2020

We're considering the Aix-en-Provence area. Our top choices so far are there, Haute-Savoie and Annecy area, Brittany, or Dordogne.

Fiendish Thingy

(16,404 posts)
42. They probably had a good defined benefit pension at Mitsubishi?
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:06 PM
Aug 2020

I haven’t got all my Retirement eggs in any single basket...

Traildogbob

(9,152 posts)
43. For now
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:07 PM
Aug 2020

My SS and State Educators retirement could be destroyed in a second term. Medicare and State retirement Health can be destroyed as well. Not sure we can run from his destruction. We gotta fight for our country, like me and all my veterans have done before. Do not accept a trump election, like him. The marksman skills the gubment taught me, may become an asset. Personally, I will not give this over to them. Willing to die once, am still. The oath. If he plans on killing us, I would rather leave fighting. Besides, the targets are well marked, not hiding in camo in a jungle. Slow, fat, stupid, big red hats. Not promoting any violence, just saying I will fight for what I have before. My daughter, this country, before what they are turning it into.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,300 posts)
18. Why should I be the one who has to leave?
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:04 PM
Aug 2020

He’s the one who sucks.

(H/T to Office Space’s Michael Bolton)

Buckeyeblue

(5,543 posts)
19. I'm not leaving but I might sell everything and live in an RV
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:18 PM
Aug 2020

As long as I have internet I can work my job. But I can drift around and stay mostly off the grid. And stay mostly away from people. I plan on doing this anyway at some point but might be willing to accelerate my plans.

FM123

(10,063 posts)
20. I have thought about that too in the past.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:28 PM
Aug 2020

I had picked three places not far from home (I have family in South FL) and where there is a large American ex-pat population: Costa Rica, Panama or Belize. That being said, I feel more hopeful these days that I will stay put and trump will be the one getting the hell outta Dodge....

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,027 posts)
79. Several years ago an acquaintance of mine moved to Panama.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:39 PM
Aug 2020

I do recall that it was somewhat trickier and there were more hoops to jump through than I would have thought.

A lot of countries require you demonstrate strong financial independence, meaning some minimum income.

FM123

(10,063 posts)
87. Yes, that's true. Each of those countries had specific requirements to establish residency.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 04:10 PM
Aug 2020

Some were more complex (and more expensive) than others - if I remember correctly, in Belize one had to show $2000 monthly income for a retirement residency, but if one wanted to work or volunteer the residency requirements were different...

mnhtnbb

(31,580 posts)
132. I have a permanent resident visa from Panama stamped in my expired US passport.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 10:06 AM
Aug 2020

Hubby and I obtained them when we were looking for an out during Bush years. Then Obama won and we breathed a sigh of relief and sold the house we had built there because we needed the money to deal with having our home here destroyed by fire in 2007.

There were hoops, but we had a good Panamanian attorney. Panama has a lot of benefits for seniors. At least they did when we were involved with getting the permanent resident visas.

GoneOffShore

(17,382 posts)
33. Not to be personal, but how old are you? We made the first tentative jump to France in 2017
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:56 PM
Aug 2020

when we bought our apartment. I was 69 and she was 57.

We did the 'definitivement' move in 2018. A bit of an upheaval but all for the good.

cornball 24

(1,490 posts)
83. Hubs is 85 and I am 78-certified old coots! I just found my dream home online in Donegal-
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 03:25 PM
Aug 2020

a lovely ocean front cottage on 43 acres at 299K euros. If only....!

Castiel

(52 posts)
116. Ireland or Scotland are top on my list
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:44 PM
Aug 2020

but Scotland doesn't allow retirees, or easy work visas. And Ireland requires $110,000 a year worth of income for a couple.

GoneOffShore

(17,382 posts)
27. Good luck to you. You may want to make the move overseas even if sanity returns.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:50 PM
Aug 2020

Even before the disaster of 2016 we had seriously considered the move abroad, as the US was becoming less of a 'good place' to live.

If you do go to Israel you'll even find Democrats there - https://www.democratsabroad.org/il

PCIntern

(25,924 posts)
29. True. I knew that.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:51 PM
Aug 2020

The Orthodox love Trump but any thinking person has realized that he’s a sociopath.

GoneOffShore

(17,382 posts)
34. My BiL is Conservadox, lives in Jerusalem and he hates Mango Mussolini.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:57 PM
Aug 2020

I'm pretty sure he's not alone.

Politicub

(12,170 posts)
31. That's great and all. Good luck, but remember
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:55 PM
Aug 2020

most people don’t have the means or connections to take up residence in a new country.

It’s great that you do; it’s a form of privilege, so please don’t wave your good fortune in our faces too much.

DSandra

(1,012 posts)
35. Your one of the lucky ones
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 12:58 PM
Aug 2020

I wish I could leave the country, but unless you are a professional or rich, it’s hard to get residency in another country.

rso

(2,309 posts)
36. Trump
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:00 PM
Aug 2020

Please no, we need to fight him with all we have. Leaving the Country and thus reducing his opposition is precisely what Donnie and his sycophants want us to do.

 

Illumination

(2,458 posts)
74. Great point! One person here asked why HE has to leave!? I'm thinking people are very
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:11 PM
Aug 2020

frightened because of the C-19 #s & lack of professional medical leadership, etc It's all very frustrating. However, after watching the DNC, I have more hope than I've had since 2016! More of a spiritual person than religious but have included Joe & Jill in my prayers each morning & evening!...

elleng

(133,129 posts)
37. I would too BUT
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:01 PM
Aug 2020

my grandchildren are here, and they are young, 1, 5 and 6. I won't leave their parents and them.

AwakeAtLast

(14,178 posts)
38. Are we going to be allowed?
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:02 PM
Aug 2020

Seriously, how long do you think we will be on the "Do not enter" list?

My husband and I had our first conversation about moving out of country a couple of weeks ago.

appalachiablue

(41,636 posts)
53. Upthread there are several posts by people who've checked
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:33 PM
Aug 2020

things out, say they'll wait for a vaccine then travel where they plan to settle and quarantine 2-3 months (w/ friends, contacts) to meet the requirements like say New Zealand; places are different of course.

NZ, see #3 and several replies.

sanatanadharma

(3,854 posts)
39. My partner and I started our expat planning before 2016
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:02 PM
Aug 2020

We reduced decades of sedentary life in Oregon to 3 suitcases and carry-on for each of us.
In April 2018 we arrived in Uruguay with our paperwork in order and have been given legal residency.

The country is modern, progressive (hope it so remains), with good health care and (so far) a low covid-19 problem; 42 deaths, 215 currently hospitalized out of 1521 positives since March in a population near 3.4 million.

Montevideo is not cheap but our modest living expenses are less than they were in Oregon. Our apartment has a million-dollar view and costs no more than the Oregon apartment that looked out upon an alley.
In a large city I can avoid having to socialize with other Americans.

Native

(6,015 posts)
44. You'll be part of a mass exodus, I'm sure.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:10 PM
Aug 2020

I'm also a citizen of Ireland, so that's always an option for us, but there is a part of me that would want to stay and fight if it comes to that. If people here just give up though, I'm not going to be one of them. I'll give up in Ireland, not here.

lettucebe

(2,338 posts)
45. Since no one wants us, this is going to be more difficult
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:11 PM
Aug 2020

First time I've wished I had enough $ to buy my way into another country

LostinRed

(841 posts)
47. I'm right there with you
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:21 PM
Aug 2020

I work for a global corporation and can move anytime I want. I will not live a country that re-electS this idiot. I don’t want to leave but I am.

SWBTATTReg

(22,703 posts)
49. Well, it's sad when you hear this that I'll leave the Country etc. etc. etc. I'd like to think that
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:26 PM
Aug 2020

we're all for this Country and supporting it in its time of need. I hear this thing all of the time, it seems, in every election cycle, that if such and such wins, I'll move to Canada, etc.

I have to laugh, because now, I don't think anyone in the world wants any Americans around, due to rump's gross incompetence in battling the CV.

Of course the vast majority of us will stay, will fight the good fight w/ every breath we take, and will never give up. Never.

Kaleva

(36,855 posts)
50. There isn't a country that I can afford that offers what I have here.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:30 PM
Aug 2020

With the step-kids and grandchildren, even moving to another state isn't an option.

AlexSFCA

(6,150 posts)
59. I know it's great to be prepared but should we focus on winning until Nov?
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:45 PM
Aug 2020

I mean we have a choice of being hopeful for 2+months. I am trying to focus on winning as if there is no alternative because with all these pandemic and economic catastrophes, hope of winning in November is the only positive thought. I know it’s easier said than done because we all realize if trump wins reelection we may not be able to easily leave the county anytime soon as all your passports are controlled by federal government and can be revoked in minutes.

helpisontheway

(5,020 posts)
64. I would not mind leaving if he was re-elected..The only thing
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 01:52 PM
Aug 2020

that holds me back are our sons. They are adults now do we can’t just take them with us. I would hate to go long periods without seeing them. However, we do have technology now so maybe. I just can’t imagine living with him as our leader for 4 more years.

Missn-Hitch

(1,383 posts)
75. Hear, hear!!
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:13 PM
Aug 2020

I am actually envious of the right wing militias. We need do organize like them. I will fight but it seems more fun in numbers. I am not getting any younger either.

Mariana

(14,879 posts)
123. Some things aren't worth fighting for.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 12:17 AM
Aug 2020

People have to decide for themselves whether a country in which Trump has consistently had 40 some percent approval ratings is one of them.

Warpy

(112,134 posts)
77. Few places are letting us in these days
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:24 PM
Aug 2020

because this country has bungled the whole virus containment so badly. If Dumdum gets back in, I think we will continue to be a world pariah.

Rorey

(8,466 posts)
78. I waver
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:28 PM
Aug 2020

I think I have to stay because I'm not willing to leave my kids and grandkids. If "the worst" somehow happens, I'm going to further insulate myself. I've been surviving the isolation of this quarantine, so I imagine I can continue to survive being a recluse.

raccoon

(31,242 posts)
80. Y'all do know that Medicare won't Pay for your treatment in a foreign country?
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:39 PM
Aug 2020

Travel
Medicare usually doesn’t cover health care while you’re traveling outside the U.S. Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands are considered part of the U.S. There are some exceptions, including some cases where Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) may pay for services that you get on board a ship within the territorial waters adjoining the land areas of the U.S.
...

https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/travel


I wish I were younger and could become a Canadian citizen.

shanti

(21,688 posts)
108. Yeah
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:16 PM
Aug 2020

that's a big one right there, medical coverage. It is a must. I have no grandparents born outside the U.S., so that's out too. Guess I'll be staying right here.

BBbats

(89 posts)
81. I was hoping to be an expat.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:42 PM
Aug 2020

A friend of mine is an Irish citizen. He's also a drummer in a oldies rock band over there. He wanted me to come over & play bass for his band.Would have been two weeks in Ireland,two weeks in the Netherlands and six weeks in Spain where they tour every year.I was also going to try and stay in Ireland. A member of the band has a vinyl record/CD/music shop and would give me a job(I'm very expert on vinyl records.Been selling them for years) Irish government permitting. Had the paperwork in order. Got a work permit for the tour and was working on a residency permit. Then in March the Covid hit the fan and cancelled everything.

I am terrified of Trump getting in again.I'm elderly now (67).A 2nd Trump term will destroy this country. Kiss medicare & Social Security goodbye.Biden does not have this in the bag, Come to my town(suburb of Philadelpia PA) and see and hear the huge amount of Trump supporters that live here. People have had their cars keyed for having a Joe Biden bumper sticker. I can't tell you how many times I've had a drink in the bar and heard some dimwit say "Trump is the greatest president in my lifetime". I'm not kidding. I just don't understand it! What do these people see in him? Is it because he validates their racism? Their hatred? I don't get it!

If I could leave I would but it's not likely. I guess I'll stay & do my best to be more active in the campaign & fight the best I can.

I'm scared!

appalachiablue

(41,636 posts)
97. So disappointing about Philly environs you describe..
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 07:43 PM
Aug 2020

Sorry about your interrupted Ireland plans, a drag but maybe that can be revived.

I've been there briefly, Dublin area was so nice; fun Temple Bar and more.

A 3rd gen. Irish musician friend in Pgh I may tap about contacts there.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,027 posts)
135. 67 is not elderly. Senior citizen, yeah. Elderly, no.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 12:27 PM
Aug 2020

That plan to go to Ireland was awesome. Perhaps someday, when all this is over, you can revive that plan.

Oh, and notice in this thread reports of people well into their 70s or 80s relocating.

Martin Eden

(13,018 posts)
82. I would do the same if younger
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 02:49 PM
Aug 2020

I turn 63 in a few weeks, and my career isn't so transferrable.

I don't want to be associated with a country that would give Trump another term. Once was too much.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
85. Damn, It seems that a lot of good Democrats are jumping ship.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 03:35 PM
Aug 2020

And "the people" did not put trump in power. Hillary won by 3 million.
I'll never leave. This is my country. I have been to many other countries and all have flaws,
just as we do. Stick around and stay in the fight.

essme

(1,207 posts)
90. As soon as my parents pass, we are leaving
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 04:42 PM
Aug 2020

if things don't get better.

We will not be able to afford health care here if Trump is re-selected.

The only reason we are here now is because I can't bear to leave my folks. They are in their 80's in bad health. If things don't improve we are out.

DFW

(55,205 posts)
92. To be fair, "we" didn't do it last time.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 05:33 PM
Aug 2020

Three million more votes for Hillary, though more than enough for victory in countries that hold fair elections, was not enough last time, and under dubious circumstances, at that. Should it happen again, no concession speeches will be forthcoming this time. A repeat of 2016 will be taken as a declaration of Civil War, and I think everyone knows it.

maxrandb

(15,639 posts)
93. I've seriously thought about Guam
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 05:49 PM
Aug 2020

Beautiful place, and about as far away as I can go and still get my pension.

Don't even have to make the brief returns to stay legal because it is a US territory.

Pulled in their several times when I was in the Navy. Actually did some snorkeling and driving.

Tropical storms are an issue though, but with a passport I could island hop to Saipan and others.

Dukkha

(7,341 posts)
96. I wish I had the means to leave
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 07:34 PM
Aug 2020

back in 2016 and now
Even of 2020 ends with a Biden win and Dem control of the Senate and House, the Deplorables will still exist. They're not going anywhere and stupidity spreads through America like weeds.

 

jimlup

(7,998 posts)
99. I think you are not alone...
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 09:02 PM
Aug 2020

My daughter has options too. I think I'm probably too old to relocate but damn. Yeah, we must win this one.

GusBob

(7,305 posts)
102. Do what I did. I made the promise in 2016
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 09:28 PM
Aug 2020

Indian Health Service

I live and work on an Indian Reservation
A sovereign nation and they all hate Trump

Dentists make a killing in our clinic

Mariana

(14,879 posts)
103. We'll probably go to the UK.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 09:36 PM
Aug 2020

They have their own problems there, sure, but still ...

We'd have three generations if we go - my husband an I, our two daughters and one son-in-law, and three grandchildren. Son-in-law and I are not citizens of the UK, but all the rest of the family are. All five adults have agreed to seriously discuss it if Trump wins.

Castiel

(52 posts)
117. You're so lucky.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:46 PM
Aug 2020

I want to move to the UK, but my Dad's family from there goes back to far to be of any use.

I would move to Scotland in a second if I could, but I have no way to get there.

 

Silent3

(15,900 posts)
118. If the UK hadn't Brexited, it would be higher on my list
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:52 PM
Aug 2020

New Zealand sounds best to me.

I know they aren't letting Americans in now, but the COVID-related ban won't last forever.

Mariana

(14,879 posts)
120. I wish the UK hadn't Brexited.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 12:03 AM
Aug 2020

It is still the one other country most of the family have the right to go live in. Also, I've spent enough time visiting to know I would like living there.

ecstatic

(33,168 posts)
104. Me too. Already looking up places.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 09:38 PM
Aug 2020

Seems like a long shot though. I don't necessarily have anywhere to call home.

PCIntern

(25,924 posts)
107. He who runs away lives to run away another day.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:15 PM
Aug 2020

Yeah well I’m done with my 67 year enlistment in the corps. I’m fresh out of patience for a country that likes being raped and pillaged.

Castiel

(52 posts)
111. I've been researching how to leave as well
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:33 PM
Aug 2020

for awhile now. I can't stay in this country if he wins again. But I have limited options of where I can go. My family might be able to help pay for me to move to Portugal, France, or Italy. And I can probably move to Israel.

But I'm not in a high skilled/needed career so it makes it hard to make a living somewhere else.

DSandra

(1,012 posts)
130. When I was doing my research, you had to be in a field like a health professional or an engineer...
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 10:00 AM
Aug 2020

To be welcomed in countries like Australia and Canada.

Seems like those people are the blessed ones.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,905 posts)
114. The USA isn't family. It's just a job.
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:39 PM
Aug 2020

This economic unit can't tolerate four more years of the drudgery under Trump.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
119. We hear this every four years. You may well leave if he wins, but 99.9% (at least) of those who say
Sun Aug 23, 2020, 11:59 PM
Aug 2020

they will leave....won't.

 

Silent3

(15,900 posts)
121. You're right, of course, but I think this time the numbers might be a bit higher
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 12:07 AM
Aug 2020

Not hugely so, but still higher, because a Trump win could mean a fast, not a slow, slide into seriously heavy-handed authoritarianism. The stakes are definitely higher than they have been in the past.

DSandra

(1,012 posts)
134. Trump and the Republicans are SOOO close to ending democracy now
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 10:11 AM
Aug 2020

With the apparatus they have to destroy democracy, and Trump dismantling the checks and balances, there will be little hope short of an intense revolution to change things, and that may be a bloody one given how Trump is essentially running a cult.

And Trumps rewarding of his base will likely include rewarding evangelicals with destroying the separation of church and state to make Christianity the official religion, and making America very hostile to LGBT people, people of other religions, and single women (winning the culture wars by hook or crook.) Essentially America will become a failed state with a tinpot despot and a massively poor populace akin to many third world countries.

This all is enough to make it different than in the past.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
136. There's not going to be a bloody revolution. Christianity will not become our official relgion.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 12:49 PM
Aug 2020

Trump is a terrible president, but he's not the King. If he wins in November he'll continue to be a terrible president for four more years. Then he'll be gone.

DSandra

(1,012 posts)
137. Trump rules with impunity, and the Republicans have been working on destroying democracy...
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 03:41 PM
Aug 2020

For at least 20 years.

Totally Tunsie

(10,885 posts)
124. Mine wouldn't be a permanent move, more of a series
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 02:17 AM
Aug 2020

of very long vacations, with a short turnaround, to Sweden. My son and his family moved there in July, and have a very large home overlooking the North Sea. If I can keep that up for four years, I'd be satisfied.

Getting into the country is still a problem, but I'd be willing to jump at the first opportunity if/when COVID subsides.

DFW

(55,205 posts)
127. If you have done your homework in advance, then follow your inclinations
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 03:15 AM
Aug 2020

Whatever you do, don't just pack a suitcase and book a flight, and after landing, say, "here I am."

Other countries aren't any more accommodating to Americans showing up under those conditions than US authorities are to people from other countries showing up in the States under the same circumstances.

With Covid-19 now raging, it is almost impossible, for the moment, without specific paperwork, to travel internationally anyway. I have that paperwork, and I saw plenty of disappointed people at airports on both ends this summer who didn't.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
131. My husband and I have talked about this periodically since 2000.
Mon Aug 24, 2020, 10:04 AM
Aug 2020

Of course after Obama was elected we didn't for 8 years. The subject still comes up, but it all boils down to our not being willing to leave the children and grand children.

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