The rabbi who is neighbor to Mark and Patricia McCloskey speaks out: 'They are bullies'

[lapucelle]

When Rabbi Susan Talve heard that Patricia and Mark McCloskey would be among the speakers addressing the Republican National Convention, she decided she could no longer stay quiet.

“It’s so upsetting that they have a national audience,” Talve said. “It’s upsetting we make heroes out of people who hate.”

The McCloskeys are Talve’s neighbors. Their property’s northern wall abuts the property of St. Louis’ Jewish Central Reform Congregation, where Talve is the rabbi.

In 2013, the synagogue placed beehives along the wall to produce honey for Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year. One morning they found the hives destroyed and all the bees dead. Mark McCloskey had taken an ax or sledgehammer to them.

snip=================================================================================

The issue was that the boundary fence actually sat six inches inside the McCloskey’s property line. The hives were, therefore, theirs to wreck.

She said the McCloskeys didn’t contact the temple at all before lashing out.

Instead, McCloskey left a note threatening to sue the synagogue for damages if the shattered hives were not removed at once.

“Civility,” Talve said. “I’m willing to speak out now because there’s such a lack of civility that’s happening, and I don’t feel like I can be a part of that, and silence is complicity.”

Talve paused. “They are bullies,” she said. “The fact that they’re speaking at the convention is a win for bullies.”

https://forward.com/news/national/453183/the-rabbi-who-is-neighbor-to-mark-and-patricia-mccloskey-speaks-out-they/

[soothsayer]

1. They're horrible people

Drumpf’s version of America

[shelshaw]

11. Of course they are

They wave guns the way he waves a bible

[TheBlackAdder]

20. If they have a pool or fountain, get a bunch of bird feeders and stock them with a berry mix.

.

The birds will dip their beaks in the water to eat them and then shit berry shit all over the area, the concrete, etc.

They will shit in the pool, around the pool, in the fountain, and when they take off, drop a shit on their way.

That's how you passively fuck with an asshole like that. . . and there is nothing they can do about it.

.

[Wicked Blue]

22. They will probably shoot the birds

for target practice

[davsand]

29. Unless you are police at work, discharging a weapon is illegal in the city.

We all realize, however, that these are the sort of people that use the threat of guns regularly and indiscriminately.





Laura

[BlancheSplanchnik]

75. That kind of person would use poison on the birds.

Somehow, they would figure out a way.

Garbage people.

[calimary]

31. I'd worry about the birds.

Damn mean-spirited gunners.

[usaf-vet]

34. I'll bet neither one could hit a target especially a moving one. I'll also bet there are laws......

.....against shooting a gun in the community. When NO threat to life or bodily harm is present.

Considering the woman in the picture that is out on the web has her finger on the trigger. Again, when NO threat to life or bodily harm is present. ON THEIR PROPERTY. Suggest to me that she at least has no gun safety training.

I LOVE the berry idea. I live in a rural area and when the berries are ripe and on the trees two things are apparent.

1. the condition you described!
2. Drunken birds everywhere. Actually quite hilarious to watch.

[phylny]

72. I believe it's illegal to kill songbirds in the US.

[soldierant]

78. It would have to be a Federal law then,

and it would surprise me immensely.

[phylny]

82. You can search more, but there's this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migratory_Bird_Treaty_Act_of_1918

[soldierant]

85. OK, glad to see it.

[Maraya1969]

74. That's kinds of genius.

[TheBlackAdder]

77. A guy I worked with did that to a neighbor who put in a pool and diverted water runoff to his lawn.

.

He tried to get the guy to redirect the water for a year, and then put up two feeders and he said the pool was so defiled and the concrete stained that the guy begged him to take the feeders down. He couldn't use the pool for most of the summer. But Robert would only take them down if he fixed the runoff issue. He said within two weeks it was fixed.

.

[gademocrat7]

2. Disgusting couple.

[Norbert]

3. That is so disgusting

I wish they would have filed charges against the McCloskeys for the property damage but I can see these clowns ramping it up to something far worse.

[SheltieLover]

4. Deplorables 🤮

How dare they do the things they do? 😳

[d_r]

5. Many gop

Were the schoolyard bullies. The rest were bullies victims that are still looking for a strong bossman to push them around.

[onethatcares]

6. and they have guns

and apparently feel comfortable about brandishing them.

that scares the beejesus out of me.

[Docreed2003]

7. And these disgusting f*cks were given a national platform

To spew their racist hate and fear monger about "others" taking over their suburbs. The fact that this couple has this platform should show the entire country what the RNC actually supports and exposes them for what they truly are.

[JI7]

8. fucking shitty trashy ass people just like Trump

[Ilsa]

9. Claire McCaskill told an abbreviated version of this

last night. She added that they sue everyone.

[soothsayer]

12. Yep, can't let gays in their horrible neighborhood

[maxsolomon]

57. I wouldn't say that neighborhood's "horrible".

Most of the neighbors dislike the McCloskeys intensely and support BLM.

[soothsayer]

58. Ok -- apologies to the neighborhood!

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Just like tRump.

[lostnfound]

10. Trump makes heroes of people who hate. Not "we".

The way nice people talk... It’s a shame we can’t get along..it’s a shame we don’t plan ahead..it’s a shame we can’t seem to put our differences aside..it’s a shame we fight...

The way mean people talk... you’re a loser.. you’re stupid...a bunch of (various epithets)...

Except the right wing base doesn’t self-reflect long enough to see themselves in the first set of comments. They think, “yeah, we can’t get along because YOUR (sic) STUPID“ or “yeah why should i put differences aside from a damn (various epithets)“.

And they think the first type of language is weak, not polite.

[amuse bouche]

13. Not a surprise

[infullview]

14. Absolutely sickening.

tRumps "convention" is a fake religious tent revival preaching hate.

[Illumination]

15. Have also had neighbors from hell. Can relate! Let's hope the tables turn on them...

[Happyhippychick]

16. I can't stop thinking about this.

Of all of the craziness of last night, this is what sticks with me.

I hate them.

[catbyte]

17. Perfect MAGAts.

[julmur]

18. Wisconsin

and they owe back taxes - go figure

[Scarsdale]

27. I think they live in

Illinois. Since when are gated communities considered "the suburbs"? To me the suburbs are McMansions, not multi million dollar properties.

[davsand]

30. Actually, they live in Missouri.

That neighborhood is made up of a bunch of old mansions.



Laura

[Scarsdale]

35. Thanks.

I am relieved to hear that, since I live in Illinois. Would not like these people in my state!

[obamanut2012]

37. St. Louis is in MO

They live in one of the highly-segregated "private places" in STL.

[julmur]

19. Wisconsin

and they owe back taxes - go figure

[obamanut2012]

38. St. Louis is in MO

[woodsprite]

23. My minister knows this Rabbi and the congregation.

She said she knows the event and it is so sad.

[KS Toronado]

47. Wonder how they killed all the bees, must have been chemicals, bees are very helpful in nature,

and killing off that many for no reason should have been illegal. Let alone they kill them and
then threaten a law suit if the synagogue doesn't clean up the mess they made is just wrong
on so many levels. Shame this event wasn't on national news when it happened, but now
that they are semi-famous, maybe it's not to late to show voters how deplorable some rich
trumpers are.

[woodsprite]

49. In DE, when we had an infestation in our siding, they had to come out to confirm

it wasn't honeybees before they would do anything. They said they were protected and there were huge fines if we destroyed a hive. So yeah, I would expect they could be fined.

Our house wall turned out to be filled with yellowjackets, which they came back several times at dusk and blasted with some kind of powder. They said if it had been honeybees, they would have had to take the siding and lathe off to have the hive moved.

[KS Toronado]

54. OK, so maybe something can still be done, calling 60 Minutes, where are you?

[Mariana]

60. Honeybees aren't native to North America.

It may be illegal for licensed exterminators to destroy a honeybee hive in some places. In general, it's not a crime to kill honeybees or to destroy a hive on your own property.

[Mariana]

61. If he broke up the hive in cold or wet weather

the bees would die without any need for chemicals. There's a reason honeybees nest inside hive boxes or wall siding or hollow trees. They require shelter to stay warm and dry, or they die.

[Igel]

79. To produce honey for Rosh hashanah

would mean having the bees out for summer. Maybe spring.

Trumpets/Rosh hashanah will start sundown on 9/18 this year, and it takes months to produce honey. In 2013, it started sundown on 9/4.

[Mariana]

81. Yeah, they probably sprayed the hives before they destroyed them. nt.

[Blue_true]

66. Raid will take bees right out.

Yes, bees are very helpful to nature. I would love to see my city and county set up bee houses on public property.

[GumboYaYa]

24. They have a long history of being bullies in STL

Last edited Tue Aug 25, 2020, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/the-st-louis-couple-charged-with-waving-guns-at-protesters-have-a-long-history-of/article_281d9989-373e-53c3-abcb-ecd0225dd287.html

[DeminPennswoods]

36. Thanks for the link

A fascinating read. This people are both pieces of work, high end grifters with law degrees.

[lapucelle]

62. Thank you for that link.

They're nasty and crazy. All they have is each other...and that's exactly what they deserve.

[IronLionZion]

25. In their own minds they believe they fended off a Marxist invasion

and seemed to think it was very problematic that a protest leader won a Dem primary for US Congress. One would think they would prefer legislative action not just marches on their street. There are still people online claiming marching doesn't accomplish anything.

[LeftishBrit]

26. Who are the McCloskeys?

Are they antisemites or do they hate everyone?

What horrible neighbours. And killing bees is simply vile, especially at a time when declining bee populations are a big concern. I hope they got stung!

[Scarsdale]

28. It looks like they DID

get stung, so badly the swelling still has not gone down! Couple of "big boned" people right there. tRump's kind of people, although he wishes the wife were younger, and actually attractive.

[Blue_true]

67. They drew an assault rifle and pistol on unarmed BLM protesters who

were passing by their home looking for the home of the Saint Louis Mayor to stage a protest there.

[Azathoth]

32. Beehives?

Come on. If someone lined my property with freakin beehives, I'd probably be pissed too. Setting up an apiary as close as possible to someone's yard isn't a very neighborly thing to do.

These two are assholes who don't deserve a national platform, but hitting them with petty grievances like this are just going to make them more sympathetic to many people.

[thesquanderer]

39. Still, shouldn't one always try conversation before destruction? n/t

[Azathoth]

51. Sure, which is why they are assh*les

But it's not a good tactic to attack people in the press for being assholes when you were the one who made the first dick move.

People get annoyed when they read stuff like this. They see it as an obvious piling-on hitjob and it generates sympathy for people who weren't initially sympathetic characters.

[SophieJean]

84. Perhaps you didn't bother to read

this article:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/the-st-louis-couple-charged-with-waving-guns-at-protesters-have-a-long-history-of/article_281d9989-373e-53c3-abcb-ecd0225dd287.html:

It's not just about their despicable behavior regarding the bees, it's a continuation of their constant attacks on others in order to grift further profit from constant lawsuits, in this case, threatened.

I'm annoyed by your questionable attack on the placement of the bee hives which was not a "dick move" on the part of the rabbi as you're attempting to characterize it. I also wonder who are the "people" that supposedly believe that the McCloskey's are somehow the injured party after destroying the bees? One party acted with malice and the other clearly did not.

[obamanut2012]

40. epic fail

wrongo

[ToxMarz]

44. They didn't just line the property border with beehives

The hives and neighbors fence were actually on their property. I find many reasons to dislike these people, and they didn't handle this in any type civilized manner, but property lines have and will be fought over for all time. A simple tree branch growing across a property line, or even blocking a view, can lead to outrageous feuds.

[Azathoth]

53. Yup. Meanwhile, there's DUers bemoaning the synagogue didn't sue for squatter's rights

Because lining their property with beehives wasn't enough, the synagogue should also have taken ownership of part of their land.

And yet we wonder why the GOP is able to caricature us to lower middle-class voters.

[LanternWaste]

63. I'd pretending 'bemoaning' is accurate too.

As it certainly allows our own self-righteousness to bloom as well.

Caricature, indeed.

[Blue_true]

68. I wondered whether the Synagogue talked to the couple about what it was planning.

I honestly would have tried to put the hives in the center of the Synagogue property and away from neighbor’s properties.

The incident does show that they are assholes, but drawing broad inferences from the incident can turn out to be problematic given that there may have been an issue with assumptions that the Rabbi made.

[ecstatic]

80. lol! nt

[greymattermom]

33. I just sent a donation to that congregation

in memory of my husband and the bees.

[zentrum]

41. Bully Nationalist Committee. That's....

….the new name for the RNC. The BNC.

[Jimbo S]

42. Biggest shitbags of the evening

I watched all 2.5 hours last night. I thought they were the most vile of the lineup of speakers. Full of mistruths and hyperbole.

[Claire Oh Nette]

56. The Faux outrage

They whined at one point that “Not a single person in the out-of-control mob you saw at our house was charged with a crime. But you know who was? We were.”

Funny, they're the only ones committing a crime, so there's that.

The other punch line: "What you saw happen to us could just as easily happen to you..."

Um, NOTHING happened to you. Not one thing. What happened was scaredy cat rich folks pissed their pants and brandished weapons at people peaceably assembled to protest. Walking past their house is not a crime. They are the embodiment of fear of everyone but themselves.

[Gothmog]

43. Who is surprised by this?

Link to tweet

[Marcuse]

45. Their compact exposed position was indefensible had the protesters actually been violent and armed.

[CottonBear]

69. She has food stains on her shirt and bare feet. He's wearing socks only. N/Y

[pnwmom]

46. I wish the synagogue had hired a lawyer. It's possible that they might have acquired ownership of

the property, depending on how long the fence had been in place, by virtue of a doctrine called "adverse possession."

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-can-claim-property-based-adverse-possession-missouri.html


No single statute in Missouri dictates the elements that a trespasser must establish to prove adverse possession. Rather, the courts have established a variety of such factors over many decades of issuing decisions in individual cases. Courts look in particular at the nature of a trespasser’s possession and the length of time the person possesses the land.


A trespasser’s possession must be (i) hostile (against the right of the true owner and without permission); (ii) actual (exercising control over the property); (iii) exclusive (in the possession of the trespasser alone); (iv) open and notorious (using the property as the real owner would, without hiding his or her occupancy); and (v) continuous for the statutory period (which in ten years in Missouri, under Mo. Stat. Ann. § 516.010).

Imagine, for example, that Morgan and Ben are neighbors in St. Louis. Without a wall between their properties, Morgan plants trees on what is technically Ben’s land. Eventually, Morgan builds an entire porch there. Ben says nothing. The years pass—ten years, in fact.

[GumboYaYa]

48. Rabbi Susan is not the suing type

https://www.centralreform.org/rabbisusan/

She is one of the most decent humans I have ever met

[pnwmom]

50. She sounds like a wonderful person. Her congregation is lucky to have her. n/t

[JHB]

52. See the article at #24. The couple is using exactly that argument...

...to take over land adjoining another property they own.

[llashram]

55. Hate is the driving motivation

of trumps base. The RNC will hold up racists, hateful people as heroes always. Trump, I will never forget after Heather Heyer had been killed by one of his hateful minions, "There are fine people on both sides".

[Cha]

59. It's a Swamp Convention for BULLIES.. every Last One of Them. Bullies

on Coke last night.

Mahalo, lapucelle

[lapucelle]

70. Mahalo...

These are horrible people who take glee in deliberately hurting neighbors whom they could have simply spoken to first.

[Cha]

73. Horribly Stupidly Demented Bullies.

[Warpy]

64. My best advide to Rabbi Talve is to get a surveyor

to establish the property line, then build a concrete block wall on her side of it. Eight feet high should do it nicely. If the bullies bitch about it, smile sweetly and tell them they have permission to paint their side whatever color they want to, it was erected for their sake--the noise, you know.

These people are raging assholes, far beyond mere bullies. A spite fence is the only way.

[Blue_true]

65. The couple appear to be real nasty people, but

the bee houses could have been placed more central on the synagogue property, or the neighbors asked whether they were ok with bee houses at the fence. My rule of thumb is never give haters a way to justify their hate.

[struggle4progress]

71. Huge assholes at the RNC

Posted By Danny Wicentowski on Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 12:27 pm

The first thing the McCloskeys wanted you to know is that they find this all hilarious ...

... the initial account that Mark McCloskey gave in media interviews .. painted a picture of an "absolute horde" that had smashed down a gate to Portland Place and threatened the lives of the couple and their dog ...

It's difficult to know where to begin with the McCloskeys. The protesters walking through Portland Place weren't demanding the end to single-family home zoning. Cori Bush isn't a Marxist. Holding firearms in ways that demonstrate your incompetence isn't actually that charming. Protesters didn't smash a gate to get into Portland Place. Talking about your conduct in a pending criminal case is, legally speaking, inadvisable ...

... After breaking the hives, Mark McCloskey left a note threatening to sue for damages and attorneys' fees if the remains were not removed.

The fence between the properties sits an entire six inches within the McCloskey’s property line, Talve said told the site. She added that news of the hives' destruction left children at the synagogue in tears ...

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2020/08/25/mccloskeys-pull-the-trigger-on-being-huge-assholes-at-the-rnc

[SunSeeker]

76. Why kill the bees? That's like killing a dog that strays into your yard.

That is fucking sick.

[Raine]

83. That's so sad, the poor little bees. 🐝 😥 nt