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Sat Aug 29, 2020, 10:24 PM

The Electoral College

We are called upon to multitask like crazy this year. We don't dare to neglect anything that even might hint at getting rid of Donald Trump.

First, we have to turn out and vote. Every. last. one. of. us. If we don't make a massive effort, we will not see the picture that we need to clarify what is happening to us.

But, it's not enough. Even though we might prevail to the tune of millions and millions of popular votes, the only thing that matters is the Electoral College. Those selected members of the EC are who really elect our next President. So, while all this maelstrom of events, verbiage, violence, and general nastiness is happening to us, the only thing that matters is this Electoral College, and what they are going to do.

Some states made laws that will now prevent the Electors from changing how they vote from the will of the people to their own beliefs. There are penalties that they can suffer. Sure. But, I have heard that the States, might consider replacing all the Electors with people that will vote for Trump. So, even though we might have literally millions and millions of votes over and above for Joe Biden, the EC can still deliver the election to Trump. Those EC votes are crucial.

A lot depends on their will for bravery and duty. I remember praying that some of them would deliver us from Trump, but they didn't. There were only one or two "faithless" Electors. The rest fell in line, and there is not a deep argument that they should not have voted how their population wanted them to, only that they held the election in their hands.

I do not think that Trump will leave, certainly not in a straight forward "I lost" kind of way. He's gonna do a scam. We have to be ready with Plan B.

This could get ugly. Don't be distracted by all this sh*t happening. Plan A is to vote with all your heart and soul. Plan B is going to end up being marching in the streets. Get ready.

If we wake up the day after with Biden as President, it will all be a big joke. But, so far what we've seen is not. This is not normal. Donald Trump is a dictator who is not going to give up unless we make him.

That's why it's awfully useful to have the General making the statement to Trump that they are NOT going to help him. It's a statement to us, as well. Why would a military chief feel it necessary to inform the public that the military will not participate? We can't be the only ones worried about this?

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Electoral College (Original post)
EndlessWire Aug 2020 OP
Karadeniz Aug 2020 #1
roamer65 Aug 2020 #4
Maraya1969 Aug 2020 #5
roamer65 Aug 2020 #6
melm00se Aug 2020 #20
roamer65 Aug 2020 #23
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #9
roamer65 Aug 2020 #11
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #12
roamer65 Aug 2020 #15
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #18
roamer65 Aug 2020 #19
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #22
roamer65 Aug 2020 #24
BigmanPigman Aug 2020 #2
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #8
questionseverything Aug 2020 #28
lastlib Aug 2020 #3
Maraya1969 Aug 2020 #7
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #10
BigmanPigman Aug 2020 #13
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #16
SheltieLover Aug 2020 #17
Maraya1969 Aug 2020 #14
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #21
EndlessWire Aug 2020 #25
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #27
EndlessWire Aug 2020 #29
EndlessWire Aug 2020 #30
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #31
EndlessWire Aug 2020 #33
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #34
roamer65 Aug 2020 #26
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2020 #32

Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 10:29 PM

1. I prefer fascist to dictator...it leaves a worse taste in people's mouths. If we ever get control

Of the states...down with the electoral college.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:09 PM

4. You will never get 38 states to ratify ending the EC.

The smaller population states have too good of a gravy train going to voluntarily give it up.

The only way out for the larger population states like NY and CA is secession. Sorry, but thats reality.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:15 PM

5. I thought congress could end the electoral college?

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:17 PM

6. No it's embedded in the Constitution.

It would take a constitutional amendment to change it.

2/3 vote of the House, 2/3 of the Senate and ratification by 38 state legislatures.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:37 PM

20. The Electoral College

is embedded in Article II, Section 1.

The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.


This was further refined in Amendment XII

The electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
(big assed paragraph there).

To alter either of these, the process spelled out in Article V:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.


What you are thinking of is how amendments can be proposed. As indicated in Article V, Congress can propose an amendment but that requires 2/3 of both the House and Senate.

Or, and this is playing with fire, a Constitutional Convention can be called if 2/3 of the states agree. This one is the scariest one (even a 2nd term for the cheetoh one) as whether the convention could be limited to consideration of the amendment or the subject matter which it is called to consider. If the answer is no then the Convention could wipe the slate clean. Putting the original Constitution together was a real challenge. In today's world? good luck with that.

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Response to melm00se (Reply #20)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:42 PM

23. Folks, read the second paragraph above of Article 2, section 1.

That means the state legislatures can ignore their popular vote or not even hold a popular election for President in their state and get away with it, just like Colorado did in 1876.

How many state legislatures are under Repuke control? Espeically in the swing states like Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, North Carolina, Florida, etc, etc.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:23 PM

9. Cut off their freebies

I would, until they ratify end of EC.

Joe likely wouldn't, but I sure as hell absolutely would.

Time to play hardball

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:26 PM

11. The problem is the Senate.

They have disproportionate representation in it. They will kill it. Only time the Senate ever came close to getting rid of the EC was 1934. They missed by 2 votes.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:27 PM

12. Make DC & PR states.

I know senate is a huge problem.

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:34 PM

15. I agree 100 percent.

We should have had a 52 star flag years ago. Probably even 53 with statehood of Guam+NMI.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:35 PM

18. So sick of swing state shit

Ridiculous!

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #18)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:37 PM

19. They got close in 1934.

https://library.cqpress.com/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre1940071000

Reason was the large Democratic majority after the 1932 election.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #19)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:41 PM

22. TY!

I will read up on it. I hope we have enormous blue results this time.

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:44 PM

24. As do I, Sheltie.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 10:32 PM

2. Two things to read and join...

https://protecttheresults.com/
"FIGHTING TO PROTECT THE RESULTS OF THE 2020 ELECTION
We are building a coalition of voters ready to mobilize if Donald Trump refuses to accept the results of the 2020 presidential election."
GET ALERTS

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clinton-says-biden-should-not-concede-2020-election-under-n1238156
"Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances'"
"The former Democratic presidential nominee predicted Republicans could try to “mess up absentee balloting” for a narrow advantage in the Electoral College."

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:21 PM

8. Ty, BP!

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 03:14 AM

28. plus one

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:05 PM

3. We need to contribute to the Dems in the battleground states!!

They are going to need every resource at their disposal in the next 140 days! Money for GOTV ops; poll-watchers; election lawyers; voter outreach--everything a powerful campaign organization needs to be effective. I don't want to pin our hopes on the Biden campaign alone; that may not be enough. Can we all dig a little deeper to help our friends and allies in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, and yes, Texas and Arizona?

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Response to lastlib (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:17 PM

7. Has someone contacted Bloomberg? He pledged to support the Democrats with his billions

Is he making good on this?

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:24 PM

10. I read he has pledged $60mil for House races

Anyone else?

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:30 PM

13. Here you go...I just Googled it...

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/29/896545732/bloomberg-vowed-to-spend-whatever-it-takes-to-beat-trump-dems-are-still-waiting

There is a lot that he already donated to, more than I was aware of..."Bloomberg has already spent well over $350 million for Democrats this cycle, according to his team, including the following investments..."
"Altogether, it makes Bloomberg the single biggest donor to the Democrats this year, and it's having an impact on the ground, according to party strategists in battleground states."

*but then there is this from the end of the article...

"Although there's no evidence yet that he is spending all that he promised, that doesn't mean Bloomberg can't or won't in the remaining days of the campaign, now fewer than 100."

"Bloomberg has a history of coming in late and spending big. In 2018, he was the single biggest Democratic investor in House races, and the donations he made in September helped flip 21 red districts blue, out of 24 he invested in."

"The remaining investments are "still being determined and decided and figured out" according to Nutter: "I mean, this is politics. You don't just kind of throw the money out the window and hope it lands in the right places. Mike makes strategic investments to change outcomes using data and evidence."

"In the next month or so, Bloomberg's team says it will be clear how much and where he has decided to invest, and then Democrats can decide for themselves whether they think he's spending whatever it takes."


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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:34 PM

16. 📣📣📣Senate please

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:34 PM

17. PS

Ty!

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:32 PM

14. 60 mil is a cup of Starbucks to him. 940 more of those millions and you get one of his billions.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Sat Aug 29, 2020, 11:38 PM

21. There is almost no history of "faithless electors".

And they've never changed the outcome of an election. So worrying about that is rather futile. Apparently people don't understand that each candidate has its own slate of electors -- they are not just generic electors selected by some random method. You vote for the Democratic slate of electors, or the Republican one, or the Green party slate.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 12:28 AM

25. Thank you for the info.

They rise from each state's election results, which tells which side gets them. At this point, you can see how skullduggery could shift the results. He may blame stuff on the disruption he created himself, but the question remains, what process do we have to dispute the allocation of EC votes to a candidate who did not earn them?

Trump is not above cheating. He'll cheat if he has to in order to win. My point is, it's not so much that there are not many faithless electors, or that they haven't shifted results; my point is that Trump can buy or order the EC to deliver the vote. Here he has enthralled the entire GOP to serve him like slaves. How hard would it be to simply order anonymous electors to vote for him? You think that can't happen? We won't even know who they are.

We have to pursue Plan A. What is a really good Plan B, other than fighting and dying in the streets for democracy? At least we know that the military will not come against us.

I don't want to live in a fascist country. And right now, I'm hard pressed to find a country which wouldn't prevent migration, due to COVID. So, I think we are at the edge of a cliff. We better effing win in November! And a really good Plan B would be helpful! Like marching coupled with a shutdown.

Stock up.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 02:10 AM

27. The EC votes are not allocated.

The person who has the most votes in the state, with the exception of Maine and Nebraska, get all of the votes. And the Electoral College voters are selected by the party. You vote for the slate of Democratic electors, or the slate of Republican electors. Trump CANNOT order the EC to deliver the vote. That is not how it works. Do you really think that the Democratic electors would vote for him? These are party faithfuls. They aren't anonymous.

Perhaps this will help, from a Google search:
How are the electors chosen? Generally, the parties either nominate slates of potential electors at their state party conventions or they choose the electors by a vote of the party's central committee. Political parties often choose electors to recognize their service and dedication to that particular party.


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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 04:07 AM

29. I understand

how the EC works.

I am hunting for the source, for you, that explained how Trump could steal the election via the EC. I would like to quote from it for your very literal interpretation. I am confident that I can find it.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 04:26 AM

30. Well, here's one analysis

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-election/608989/

"However, any state could change its law and instead allow its legislature to decide which electors will choose the next president."

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 12:28 PM

31. Trump did not steal the election via the EC.

Thinking like that completely misunderstands how the EC works. He won the states that gave him enough EC votes to become President. It's as simple as that. Back on November 9, 2016, there was a lot of pointing out that Hilary didn't campaign in certain crucial states that would have made a difference.

In fact, a truly worst case scenario is that a candidate takes the 11 states needed to gain 270 EC votes: California, Texas, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, New Jersey and win them by the tiniest of majorities. Every other state goes in a huge way for the other candidate, with a significant majority of the overall vote. Nonetheless, the candidate with those 270 EC votes becomes president. Here's a link to an excellent article about the EC, which includes various scenarios: https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote

And again, there's not just a single slate of electors who are then supposed to vote for whoever won in that state. Each and every party has its own specific slate of electors. In fact, among Kanye West's problems with his run for President is electors. Here's a link to an article about one of those problems. https://www.newsweek.com/kanye-west-ohio-election-president-donald-trump-1523262

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 02:14 PM

33. I never said anything about 2016

in my post. Let's agree to disagree. This could go on forever and it is Sunday.

To me, Trump is a guy who would like to point to a win using his manipulation of the system. But, if he doesn't win, he'll just take it anyway, if we don't fight back.

As I am sure you know, the Republicans are poor losers. That is why losing Repub governors passed crippling legislation in some states to hamper newly elected Dem governors. Those that control state legislatures can simply change the procedure in a similar manner, and then elect Trump.

The thing that gets me is why people think that just because something is unfair, it won't be used. We have never had anyone like Trump before; it is 60 or so days to the election, and he doesn't want to lose. How many times did we hear Trump say that he avoided taxes by using the law, and if we didn't want him to do so, the law wouldn't be there for him to take advantage of it.

Let's just say that if we avoid the drama, we will be blessed. I would love to be wrong. I don't look at the election as the end of it, myself. Others are confident that he can't manipulate the vote. We'll see.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #33)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 04:42 PM

34. I apologize for misunderstanding or misreading you.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 12:31 AM

26. Just wait, right around mid October Repuke state legislatures will say it's too unsafe to vote.

They will do the job for us and select Repuke electors.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 30, 2020, 12:30 PM

32. Actually, I expect some Republican states may well double down

about in-person voting, insisting that mail-in ballots are all fraudulent. They will see nothing wrong with people standing in line for hours, even in miserable weather.

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