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Tue Sep 1, 2020, 12:04 AM

Children in cages

Separating children from their parents and putting them in jail just because they're brown is a crime against humanity under international law. The penalty for that is 30 years in prison.

As we prepare to vote for President, just remember who did that and how shameful it is that we tolerated it. No, I don't know how to fix it except to vote for Biden/Harris. A vote for Biden is a vote against children in cages, some of whom will never recover from the experience. How awful it is that our country, Home of the Brave, did this.

I want my country back so we can fix it up better, stronger, and with honor. We need to find our way.

Our duty is to vote the bastards out of office. That's a clear duty under our political system. That little "I voted" sticker is a badge of honor. Get your own in November.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 12:10 AM

1. Care?

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 12:37 AM

2. We're not too far from the nazis in the accumulated cruelty...

that trump has wrought with all his actions. Children in cages is one of his most inhumane actions.

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 02:19 PM

8. It was SICK to find out she put on that jacket because: Michelle Obama.

She's a disgusting, sick, grubworm. They deserve each other.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 12:45 AM

3. Just be prepared to counter the reality -

That many of the initial viral images of children in cages were from 2014, when Biden was VP.

While the Biden/Obama policies were not nearly as draconian as the Trump policies, the Biden/Obama record is not stellar on immigration (and has not been for anyone, from either party, for decades).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 02:20 AM

4. Obama put children who came unaccompanied in cages.

Temporarily, while they searched for relatives in the US. You may want to add this, next time you bring this up.

This is one of my pet peeves about the ďchildren in cagesĒ story. Obama never ripped a child from their parentsí arms.

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Response to secondwind (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 02:13 PM

7. So it's just fine to keep children in cages, as long as

they weren't ripped from their chidren's arms? Not in any country I'm proud of.

And - my point is that the very first children in cages photos - that caused so much outrage - were from 2014 but they were used to illustrate how inhumane Trump is. No back story - just children in cages with foil blankets. We were all outraged at the image. Until we learned that the viral images were taken in 2014, and then we rationalized them away (as you are doing . . . they're not so bad because Obama didn't rip children from their parents' arms . . . he just put them in cages with foil blankets after they were already separated.

Keeping children in cages with foil blankets is horrific, no matter how they were separated from their parents. What Trump did is worse - but only by degrees, not in nature. Treatment of children in is NOT one of the strong cards for Biden - and I am not willing to rationalize away our own complicit behavior in a long, bipartisan, atrocious histroy on immigration.

And anyone who plans to use that image to condemn Trump had better (1) know the origin of the photos that are stuck in people's minda and (2) have a very clear explanation of why children in cages is OK for Obama but beyond the pale for Trump. Most people are unaware of the former, and I have yet to hear an explanation for the latter that passes the laugh test.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 02:24 PM

10. Yes, ones a crime (genocide) the other is not. The distraction is children in cages, we put them in

... cages and jails all the time in the US as a policy, that's not against the law.

Taking children from their parents as a group of people and openly admitting such as a policy of deterrence during a rally is though.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 09:39 PM

12. I don't give a flying fig about the law.

Keeping immigrant children in cages with foil blankets for comfort is is immoral, regardless of the law, and regardless of which party does it.

We knew it the instant we saw those photos - and we only backed off from it as to those first photos when we learned that those photos were taken under Obama's watch.

I abhor relative morality based on political affiliation. There are many places where we excel - immigration is not one of them.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 09:46 PM

14. I care about the genocide part, I think we all should no? ... and there's a difference of thousands

... of kids showing up at the border and where to put them vs kidnapping them from their parents and doing such with no regards to health or safety.

I didn't back off at anytime, I knew it was a false equivalency when I saw the pics.

I didn't equate one with the other and knew how to address it; Obama admins actions weren't deliberate indifference and Trump admins were.

That doesn't explain the picture to MAGAs cause the words are too big for them to understand and the imagery was less than what America has to offer, that I'll admit about the Obama admin. I'm a fan and not a cheerleader of his administration and democrats

but there ... NO WAY ... the two situations are similar enough whatsoever.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 10:58 AM

5. I'm not really moved

by your argument against Biden. We let Trump's buddies out of prison because of COVID, but not little kids. I just don't want it forgotten that there are little children at the border who have not committed treason but are locked up anyway. A blanket pardon (see what I did there) would be nice for all of them. Move them to foster families, throw some money there, and lose the tag of such inhumane actions that it constitutes a crime against humanity.

I dream of a country free from prejudice and stupidity that springs from it. We come from a sordid past, really shameful stuff, but that doesn't mean that we can't do much, much better. We have no chance at all to move ourselves upward if we reelect that Orange Monster.

The thing that makes it a crime under international law is the policy that Trump's regime pursues against a certain segment of the population. It's cowardly and reflects against ourselves.

I don't believe in open borders. I want to know who is coming in and why. But, I could do better than this, because I am not a rabid dog frightened of brown people. Brown people are not the enemy: Trump et al and the whole GOP are the enemy.

Your argument that Biden also did it doesn't speak to what is currently happening. Biden didn't stand up in front of the nation and declare brown people personae non gratas. It is once again a situation where Trump creates the problem and then credits himself with fixing it.

It is important to realize that such actions actually do constitute a crime under international law. It is more than Draconian; it is a crime and something that is going to be hard to fix.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 02:00 PM

6. point, whoosh, head.

It is not an argument against Biden.

It is a caution that if you are going to try using that argument against Trump, you need to be prepared that they are going to point out that most of the early photos (that caused so much outrage) were taken when Biden was vice president - and you better have a good counter for it.

We all have confirmation bias - and most people on DU were outraged at the photos when they believed the children to have been put in cages by Trump. As soon as it was pointed out that the photos were from 2014, they were rationalized away. That doesn't work if you are using it as a primary attack on Trump - because if you can rationalize it away when Biden's name was on it, they can rationalize it away when Trump's name is on it.

There were brown children locked in cages under the BIden/Obama administration, too. ANd - it is not just that they did it too. The very photos initially used to condemn Trump were photos taken under the Obama/Biden administration. So it is not, in my opinion, an effective argument against Trump to point to children in cages.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 02:32 PM

11. Obama/Biden didn't deliberately inflict the cage condition onto the children Trump/KKKlan did

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 09:41 PM

13. Those children just accidentally wandered into the cages

attracted by the shiny foil blankets, made themselves at home, and locked themselves in?

They did not deliberately separate the children from their parents, but they most certainly did deliberately inflict the cage condition on the children.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 09:51 PM

16. No, they accidentally wandered into a situation where the US didn't have anywhere to put thousands..

... of them at a moments notice.

Not the best America has to offer but no way close to the Text Book UN Defined Article II Part E Genocide Trump is committing as we type.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 09:48 PM

15. Crimes against humanity

his ass needs to be in jail.


VOTE THEM OUT!!!!!!!

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Tue Sep 1, 2020, 09:54 PM

17. I thought that was done and over with.

We really donít hear another word about it.

But we do hear a lot of tales about trumpís kids, or trumpís golf, or trumpís problems walking down or up ramps. Not much though about the things that really stir us emotionally, like kids in cages.

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