If America Votes Drumpf In Again, It's Not Worth Saving

[sfstaxprep]

We're supposed to be Patriotic. We're supposed to say and believe that this is the Greatest Country In The World.

It's time to accept reality. It's time to accept the fact, that if America even comes close to allowing this PIECE OF SHIT to be our leader for another 4 years, then it's over.

We say how much worse things will get if he's here for a 2nd term. But it's more immediate than that.

I have told my parents, who are in their 80's, that if he's elected again, THEY are the only reason I'm not looking to move elsewhere. I just do not want to be in the midst of people who are Not Humans I want to associate with in Any Way!!

I know he'll lose the overall vote, but that's unfortunately irrelevant. The electoral college determines the country's direction, not the majority of voters. We'll be marginalized like never before. Other countries around the world will want nothing to do with us. And rightly so! I wouldn't either if I lived outside the U.S., and saw what was going on.

[Moostache]

1. Still bears repeating: We DID NOT VOTE him in back in '16 either...

HE LOST by nearly 3,000,000 total votes. The minority candidate was installed by racist vestiges of the Electoral College and its intent to protect slavery.

Trump has never "won" at anything, he just tells people he did as long as it takes for them to get bored with arguing the point and then claims he was right and "won" everything. Con Man gonna con...

[Polybius]

7. Unfortunately, the winning the Electoral College is a win and all that matters

We'd have to remove it somehow.

[coti]

18. I think this is the better take than "it's not worth saving"- it would mean we need radical change

Not that that need isn't already clear.

[roamer65]

2. Plus we have states like KY, AL and TN addicted to transfer payments from larger blue states.

They will have a fit much like a heroin addict when we cut it off.

[Initech]

23. Way past time to cut it off.

They can have it back when they play nice and stop demonizing us, and electing such shitty politicians.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. But most of us will still have to live here.

[RKP5637]

4. America had a good run of it after WWII, but politicians and others have secured themselves

into positions of power to rip the country off. Also, I fear the nature of Americans has changed when I see Trump supporters. They seem so damn uneducated and can't comprehend he's a con artist, a crook and really an absolute pathological sociopath with a narcissistic condition. Most of the world sees him for what he is, but we have a significant core of really bizarre Americans that support someone like him. If Trump and his cronies are in again, I think America is coming to an end as known and a dystopia will emerge. Most Americans will grovel in the streets trying to survive and crime will be endless. I hope this does not happen, but damn, the system is so fucken rigged.

[DSandra]

15. Yes, you can imagine America becoming like a bad third world country

Complete with mass extreme poverty, shantytowns, lack of healthcare access, disease ridden, infrastructure all worn out, gangs proliferating, and lots of unrest.

Even worse though, a failed nation with lots of nuclear weapons, what do you think might happen...

[RKP5637]

20. That's been crossing my mind too, America as you say, and with a stockpile

of nuclear weapons. Countries do fall apart, my fear is too many Americans just don't get it, and think everything goes on forever. Trump and Barr are dangerous as hell. I can't believe so many Americans are OK with this.

[DSandra]

21. They've been indoctrinated to only believe Right Wing Media...

And now there’s not just Fox News, but OAN Network, and Newsmax TV, as well as Facebook Feeds.

They are continually told how bad the MSM is to Trump, and told how corrupt everyone else is so that viewers won’t dare believe anyone else. They are brainwashed and thus are likely a lost cause to convince.

[RKP5637]

34. What is the motivation behind RW media? Money, major shift in the direction of

the country, religion, funded by Russia ... always wondering what promotes a disinformation broadcast. I guess people like Rupert Murdoch have found it extremely profitable. I think much of it, as with Fox News, is niche marketing for huge profits ... and the human mind is often intrigued by hatefulness and conspiracies, etc. laced with the fear factor.

[DSandra]

35. Since Reagan, it seems that having a sociopathic mindset has been normalized

And that means: “As long as it doesn’t affect me”, “I’ve got mine”, and thus “you should only care about yourself”, “ahh, they were going to die anyway”, “Who cares about patriotism? It’s ultimately about the greens in life!”

Just remember the callousness of Dr Oz and Dr Phil and various other right wingers, and even the young people calling the pandemic “the boomer remover.”

Basically hyper selfishness and greed are killing America.

[RKP5637]

44. Yes! Bottom-line: "Basically hyper selfishness and greed are killing America." n/t

[roamer65]

30. World War 3.

[RKP5637]

61. I often wonder, is America the new Germany for the 21st century with the

Last edited Wed Sep 2, 2020, 09:11 PM - Edit history (1)

stockpile of weapons and the potential for a madman winning the presidency again with a gang of thugs much like himself in control. ... and Russia who would like to return to its former self ... for many. Trump once said something like imagine if Russia and the US combined forces ... and could rule earth.

[roamer65]

71. My gut feeling is the United States is going to break up.

That will embolden other powers to make provocative moves...like China invading Taiwan, Russia invading the Baltics, Japan restarting offensive rearmament, etc.

The Israelis making peace with the UAE shows they will ally with Saudi Arabia in a war against Iran.

[appalachiablue]

24. The nature of people & the country have changed for a fact.

Biden & Harris are doing great, have excellent policy plans but there's a lot to work on once they get in-- the biased media, democratic institutions and govt. broken down, loss of global status, monopolies, enormous economic inequality, racial injustice, coming automation displacing thousands of jobs, rising poverty, climate change, pandemics-- a tall order with many difficult challenges to be confronted.

I also think America as we know it could be coming to an end- potential economic and social collapse; descent into Third World conditions under authoritarianism and the rise of a techno- corporate driven neo-feudal dystopia. I truly hope that I'm seriously wrong.

[DSandra]

37. We are already under Neo-Feudalism

Especially now, where it’s extremely hard for small businesses to survive without wealthy backers, and it’s very hard for people to survive now unless they are lucky enough to keep a good job in a big corporation. Big corporations are the new lords and workers are the serfs, trading their labor and lives for security and normalcy. There is always the near bottomless pit of ruin and homelessness for anyone who doesn’t dare keep the favoritism of their lord.

[RKP5637]

62. Yes, much of the US is already near (or in) a bottomless pit of ruin and homelessness.

I think a lot of Americans still don't get how many people in the US live in desperation approaching (or in) dystopia.

[appalachiablue]

72. Well said, I'm aware of the dismal reality & future uncertainties.

The new corporate lords

[roamer65]

28. Just like Rome.

[RKP5637]

43. It's a pattern! n/t

[roamer65]

46. Rome, Spain, Britain and United States.

Many don’t realize Spain from the 1500’s to about 1800 was an immense empire, fueled by the vast silver and gold deposits of Mexico, Colombia, Peru and Bolivia.

It’s currency, the Real, was the first worldwide reserve currency.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

5. Imagine a country where we own NOTHING...

Just watched a powerful film on Netflix called...AND THEN THEY KILLED MY FATHER by Angelina Jolie , a true story on the takeover of Cambodia by the Khumer Rouge. A story remembered by a young girl whose life was shattered. Where ownership of property, human rights, were taken away and people sent to the Killing Fields.

4 more years of Trump will be such a country here if we do not VOTE as if our Democracy depended on it.

[DSandra]

16. Property ownership is governed by the government...

And thus it can be taken away by the government. Without the government, your claim to a property is only as good as your ability to defend it from others who try to steal it.

[appalachiablue]

25. +1

[Clearly fogged in]

54. So true

What you said, 4 more years of Trump will be such a country here if we do not VOTE as if our democracy depended on it.

It is disheartening that so few understand this now, and so many will not understand why when it does happen.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

6. Is Trump the disease or the symptom?

I'd argue the symptom. He's the symptom of a nation in the midst of a demographic shift that threatens the control of white, monied interests. He is the symptom of a nation that has tended toward infotainment over information, and that now has the means to find "facts" and "experts" to support any viewpoint. He is the symptom of a nation that fears for its security, and of which a large segment is fixated on firearms. He is the symptom of a society that is undergoing a sea change in how it views and practices religion. He is the symptom of a nation that has a large population segment that feels it can best maintain prosperity by denying or ignoring the changing climate.

Even in the not-unlikely event that Joe Biden becomes President, he will inherit a nation at least as damaged as the nation Jimmy Carter inherited in '77.

[Moostache]

9. Trump is a co-morbidity...

He is everything wrong with humanity in a single package.

Crass.
Stupid.
Arrogant.
A buffoon.
A dupe.
A clown.
Narcissistic.
Racist.
Xenophobic.

I could continue, but what's the point? Trump is a factor in killing the concept of government by, of and for the people. If the ailments of the nation are rooted in wealth distribution disparity, combined with propaganda and exploitation of people's need for religion (still)...then the co-morbidities are our racist history through native genocide and slavery right up to today's GOP and right-wing hate groups.

If the nation's disease is COVID-19, Trump is Diabetes, Hypertension, Renal failure and Lung Cancer COMBINED.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

12. He's a brutal reflection of a lot of America

The America that lives in gated communities that separate them from the people they don't want to see or interact with unless they are cleaning a home or mowing a lawn. The America that is far more interested in the Kardashians and Crisley than in current events. The America that is a little worried about the increasing number of storms, and a little saddened by school shootings, and a little sorry about what happened to George Floyd, but that mostly is concerned about how its 401K is doing. The America that celebrates the Boston Tea Party, but is upset about stores looted in a protest. The America that shouts about freedom and sends storm troopers to beat protesters.

We are capable of greatness - building railroads across a continent, travelling to the moon, defeating polio. But we are also craven and greedy - stealing Native land, misusing precious resources, and attempting to marginalize those that don't conform to the mainstream. That's why we seem to now move from one extreme to the other every couple of election cycles.

[misanthrope]

40. This was well stated!

Loved this and it rings true for the slice of reality that surrounds me.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

74. Thank you

I think we are in one of those "interesting" phases of history that will be a joy to study but a curse to live through.

[Cosmocat]

27. symptom

been saying that since BEFORE he got elected, and you are absolutely correct that even if the better spirits of man win the day come November 3, it is only a minor reprieve.

The momentum of stupid has crested past the breaking point.

It just is a matter of how bad it gets, and that that bad will be.

[RKP5637]

63. K&R!!! n/t

[Miguelito Loveless]

8. We didn't vote him in the last time

Like Bush, he LOST the election, and was only saved by a slave era system designed to protect White people. He will lose again, but will not relinquish power, and will discredit the actual vote, with help from Russia, the GOP (now the same group as Russia), and the SCOTUS if needed.

[marie999]

73. He did not lose the election. He won it as The Constitution is written.

And if he loses according to The Constitution he will relinquish power.

[Miguelito Loveless]

76. He won based on an electoral system

that counted Black people as 3/5's of a person. The EC is a slave-era institution that perpetuates White minority rule. It may be the law, but I am told it also legal to torture people, and I refuse to respect/obey that view.

[moondust]

10. Who knew

that so many Americans want to live in the Middle Ages?

Hunger and illness without access to health care - Check.

Murder and mayhem - Check.

Plague - Check.

Feckless royal family serving themselves - Check.

[misanthrope]

41. It's not the Middle Ages

It's the Old South. If you've read recent works by Colin Woodard or Heather Cox Richardson then you know the Deep South's culture is based on a model designed by brutal West Indian slave lords. It is New World feudalism and was never removed from the roots of Southern culture following the Civil War. Now it has seeped out across the nation.

[appalachiablue]

45. I would mention the conditions and backbreaking life

of workers in the US and Europe in industrial factories, mines, sweatshops and more that were abysmal until labor reforms and rights advanced in the earlier 20th c. particularly in America. It took the efforts of the progessive era, fierce protests, the formation of organized labor movements and the use of strikes. Push back often came with violence and severe reprisals. Not in any way close orequivalent to centuries of oppression, violence and misery under slavery and Jim Crow, but yet harsh, brutal and unyielding, esp. by later 20th c. standards.

A form of serfdom, mainly agricultural was maintained in parts of eastern Europe and Russia until 1861 but vestiges remained longer in some areas. Brazil did not abolish slavery until 1888 and Cuba in 1886. There are unfortunately lingering effects there for people of African descent.

[jalan48]

11. Once Hitler gained power in Germany the Germans couldn't or wouldn't stop him. He was only

defeated by forces from outside the country.

[DSandra]

17. No one's going to save America...

Not when America has thousands of nuclear weapons...

[jalan48]

19. It will take awhile but eventually we will fall.

[roamer65]

29. So when we break apart, who gets them?

That ought to have the world REAL nervous.

[Initech]

52. I was playing a game of Civ V last night.

And one of my opponents used a nuclear bomb on his own city after I captured it. I could totally see Trump doing something like that, but I certainly hope that it doesn't come to that.

[RKP5637]

64. I think Trump is capable of a lot of things we've not yet seen. He is so damn dangerous, really,

even to the existence of humanity on earth.

[Initech]

66. I just know he's waiting for any excuse to drop an A bomb on San Francisco.

Just to get back at Nancy Pelosi, for, reasons.

Though now I think Portland might be his first target.

[RKP5637]

69. The guy is a madman, something will likely happen, eventually IMO. n/t

[raccoon]

39. Yeah, and it took 12 years to get rid of him. Nt

[jalan48]

42. Yes, if Biden doesn't we have a big problem.

[RKP5637]

68. Sadly, I often think that is what will happen with America if Trump wins again. n/t

[mitch96]

13. "It's Not Worth Saving"

I think the people that have fought and died for this country would disagree with you. For me this is a bump in the road on the journey for our grand experiment. It never comes easy.
tRump will not be around for ever.
m

[cayugafalls]

14. I vehemently disagree. This is the greatest country in the world. I am a Patriot.

America is my home.

I will not go gently into that good night and just give up.

Fuck that.

For me, it ain't over till I say it's over.

[USALiberal]

26. LOL, so if "YOU" say it is over, it is ok????? nt

[cayugafalls]

31. For me, only, my bad, should have been clearer as I felt OP was

saying it was over for everyone and I must have mistakenly did the same.

I will edit...thanks.

Actually, I'll let it stand, I did say "For Me" you can do what you want.

[cayugafalls]

32. "For me" only. Stated pretty clearly in my post. nt

[Initech]

22. Trump is Surtur. And his insertion of himself into our government is our Ragnarok.

If we reelect him, it will be the equivalent of putting him on the Eternal Flame, and he will destroy Asguard (America) as we know it, there will be no stopping him.

[RKP5637]

65. I really resent how I vote, my one little vote, and then the electoral college can

overrule the popular/majority vote, really, what the fuck kind of a democracy is that. It's the 21st century!!! Also, how I can give my tiny bit of $$$$'s to support candidates, but others can donate zillions ... oh, and corporations are really people. We live in USA, Inc. and are in fact treated as disgruntled employees. It's no wonder the US often digs its own hole and falls into it.

[Initech]

67. We should have got rid of the electoral college after Bush V. Gore.

The fact that it still exists is the very definition of an abomination, really.

[ego_nation]

33. I REALLY struggle with this.

If America was a marriage, I think it’s safe to say the divorce papers would have been filed a while ago. The two ends of the political spectrum have reached the point where we’re simply not compatible any more.

That said, I realize our country is not a marriage, but I do wonder more and more if our efforts are better spent on keeping it all together, or will there come a time where we simply have to go our separate ways.

[raccoon]

36. I don't disagree with your premise, but we'll still be living here.

For many Americans, relocating to another country is not an option.

But I’ll be totally PO about it, if dog forbid , it should happen.

[Calista241]

38. I disagree

Yes, having Trump for another 4 years would suck, but we just had the best President of my lifetime for 8 years starting in 2008. People place too much emphasis on the office of the Presidency. It's one branch, a powerful one, but we are a country of 350 million people and we've done great things in the past 20, 50, 80 years.

[uponit7771]

49. 200,000 Americans are dead by because of Trump, the extra dying wont stop if he gets elected

[Polybius]

51. His pandemic response was bad, but every Covid death is on Trump?

So we would have had zero under another President?

[uponit7771]

53. No, less 1,500 which is S Korea to our population ... we could've done better then S Korea so

... the rest of the 180,000 deaths are on him.

[Polybius]

55. We are much more of a melting pot than South Korea

Tourists from nearly every place on earth came to NYC alone daily by the tens of thousands daily. Germany had 245,000 cases and 9,313 deaths, all with a great leader (Angela Merkel).

I still see 80,000 deaths happening unless a total 100% ban on international flights happened in January. Still, that's 100,000 unnecessary deaths on Trump.

[uponit7771]

59. The warnings came in November last year, Trump had plenty of time to stand up testing and tracing

... campaign.

We're at minimum as effective as S Korea with a competent leadership, 180+ deaths are on Trumps head.

There are a number of countries that have done way more with less resources than the US including a number of African countries that had PRT from ebola stood up with the help of the Obama admin.

S Korea could do it we could find a way also seeing we have way more resources, there's no good excuse for Trump killing 180,000 Americans with his incompetence looking at the warnings came late November.

US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November — TV report

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-alerted-israel-nato-to-disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[uponit7771]

47. Pelosi should ... NOT ... certify Trumps cheated election

[JI7]

48. He can only win by cheating.

[uponit7771]

50. +1, no reality based person is going to believe Trump won on the up and up and I pray we have

... enough strength to persuade Pelosi not to certify Trumps election in the house.

LV polling is coming in and the spread hasn't gone below 20% of RV polling and the MOE's are tighter than 16.

Trump will try and poison Biden now

[Celerity]

56. you are talking about the ultimate nuclear option, Pelosi invoking Article I, Section 5 powers

First off, in order for any of this to happen, we HAVE to maintain control of the House.

It is very complicated but, IF enough Rethug governors refuse to certify votes for the EC (with the intent of throwing it to the House, where the Rethugs will 99% likely have at least 26 (the bare minimum needed) state delegations to elect Trump), then she can invoke the power to seat enough Democrats to give us the 26 (or more) and thus elect Biden in the House.

It is technically possible (not at all guaranteed) she can do this, but it may very well set off a mini (if not full-blown) civil war or at least massive widespread violence nationwide, especially if the madman Trump whips shit up into a feeding frenzy for his army of goons

Here is the relevant Section of the Constitution.

Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members,and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.

Assuming the new House reelects Pelosi as speaker, she could use the chamber’s power under the Constitution’s Article I, Section 5 (right above), to have her majority be the “judge” of contested elections to the House. The House could then seat enough Democrats to give Democrats control of a majority of state delegations before the House votes to select the president in January 2020.


Here is a very long, detailed look at it all. I do not know if this deep of a dive has ever been talked about here. I have never seen it, but I have only been here since summer of 2018.

https://dcarpenter.scholar.harvard.edu/files/dcarpenter/files/constitutionalcountermove_memo20200801.pdf


II. The Potential Crisis and a Possible House Countermove

The second part of this memorandum is an exercise in political strategy at the boundaries of
constitutional norms. It hopes to put an ideational arrow in the quiver of those who would defend
our democratic republic from the illegitimate undermining of a hypothetically genuine electoral
result. The basic idea is that the House, were it illegitimately thrown an election by the deliberate underpopulation
of the Electoral College, could respond by reconfiguring its delegations under Article I, Section 5 powers to produce the
result that would have been produced by the Electoral College in the event of faithful state reports and certifications.
The countermove involves powers not used for partisan purposes in over a century, but historical
precedent for their use in padding majorities does exist.

The Benefits of Brandishing Delegation Reconstitution. In the present context, it may be that
the best purpose of laying out this countermove is that House Democrats can threaten to use this “nuclear
option” in response to state officials considering or moving on prior nuclear options to underpopulate the EC. If, say,
Senate Majority Leader McConnell appears to be considering a bad-faith version of the scenario
posed by Professor Lessig – pushing for an “immediate” December vote by holding that the
Electoral Count Act does not bind his Congress – then Pelosi could threaten to use her majority’s
powers under Article I, Section 5 to immediately reconstitute the state delegations. Strategists may
wish to think of other hard options that can be brandished if authoritarian politicians attempt to
undo the results of popular majorities at the state level.


Assume the following hypothetical facts, facts tailored to a Biden-Trump contest:

A1. A Genuine Biden Victory. The Democratic candidate (hereafter assumed as “Biden”) has
won clear popular majorities in enough states to claim slates of electors sufficient to win an
Electoral College majority under “regular” circumstances.

A2. Illegitimate Electoral College Underpopulation with Intent to Throw the Election to
the House.10 By dint of state officials refusing to certify their elector slates (for whatever reason
they produce), the Electoral College is underpopulated and neither Trump nor Biden win the
requisite Electoral College majority in December 2020. This throws the presidential election to
the House of Representatives (“House”), where votes will occur by state delegation.

A3. Retention of Democratic House Majority. By at latest mid-December (December 12th),
(A3a) Democrats know they will retain the majority in the 117th House and know that A2 is true.
They also expect (A3b) that the state delegation majority will remain with Republicans.

Violation of A3a would mean that Democrats cannot harness a member-based majority to
exercise their Article I, Section 5 powers to adjudicate elections or delegation seating, or to
exercise other authority over rules. Violation of A3b means that they would have sufficient
partisan votes to control the eventual vote by state delegation, making any resort to Article I,
Section 5 power needless.

A4. Sufficient (and Sufficiently Placed) Challengers. There are sufficiently many legallyestablished Democratic challengers in House districts apparently won by Republicans that the
delegation majority can be affected by awarding apparently-won Republican House seats to
Democrats. A4a – There were sufficient challengers in the elections held for the 116th Congress
in November 2018. A4b – There are sufficient challengers for the elections in the 117th
Congress held in November 2020.

A5. Factual Democratic Majority in 117th House. The Democrats do retain their majority for
the 116th House in the 117th House and Pelosi (assumed here) or another Democrat is elected
Speaker on the first day of the Congress, the House Administration Committee being
immediately fillable.

A6. Contingent Vote for President. A6a. The relevant delegation vote to elect the President
occurs in the 117th House, after the vote to elect the Speaker and appointments to the
Committee on House Administration. A6b. The contingent vote occurs in December 2020,
before the 117th Congress is seated.


The upshot of Assumptions A1, A3 and A6 is an illegitimate and strategic underpopulation of the
Electoral College with the intent of throwing the presidential election to the House, where
Republicans would have a majority of delegations. Assumptions A1, A3 and A6 capture the
essential components of the Wirth-Rogers scenario. But note also that Wirth and Rogers assume
other parts of a narrative that need not occur in the one I am laying out. In particular, Attorney
General William Barr doesn’t need to launch a national security emergency in order for the rigged
EC non-majority to happen (the state officials can just claim “rigged elections” on their own), and
the Biden popular vote majorities in Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania could be
overwhelming, counter to the Wirth-Rogers article’s hypothetical scenario. The Wirth-Rogers
scenario basically involves gerrymandered state legislatures acting in such a way as to throw the
election to the House. Lessig’s July 4th clarification shows that other actors would have to be
involved in this non-certification. Either way, no national security emergency is necessary for EC
underpopulation to occur. The state officials can simply supply their own reasons, or not.
Note that what this scenario assumes is that House delegations vote purely and entirely on a partisan
basis. It is possible that ethically-minded members of Congress would not behave in such a partisan
fashion.


snip

[Celerity]

58. I also wanted to add in about US House state delegation control

As it stands

the Rethugs control 26 states

we control 23

one is tied (PA)

there would be only 22 we control and two would be tied, except for in MI, Amash left the Rethug Caucus and is retiring. We simply MUST win it (Republican Peter Meijer verus Democrat Hillary Scholten, and it is a Trump +10 district, so eeeeek) to have ANY chance at getting to 26.

To get to 26 state delegations we have to do enough of the following to get to 26 or more

there are only 5 states really in play in terms of state delegation control changing: MI, PA, FL, MT, and AK

we have to (and all this makes the HUGE assumption that we hold ALL our current delegations)

1. Win that race in MI

2. Win an extra seat in PA, so it is no longer tied

3. We have to flip a FL seat, and there is only one possible one, FL-15

as you can see, I already have brought it up on here

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100213897688

4. win the Alaska at large seat and we have a shot, the ancient (87 year old) Don Young, who is the Republican Party's longest-serving member of the U.S. House of Representatives in history, having represented Alaska for 24 terms, is in a bit of trouble with an indie, Alyse Galvin.

5. win the at large in MT, Matt Rosendale is in a tossup race v Kathleen Williams to replace uber thug Greg Gianforte (Mr body-slam the reporter), who is running for Governor (tossup between him and Mike Cooney, the Dem, as well)



Now, all that said

we COULD take away at least one net seat from the Rethugs

only 25 (or less) fucks them (it kicks it to the Senate unless WE get to 26)

to do that

we have to hold all our current delegations (minus MI, as a tie blocks them as well), keep PA tied (or win it), keep, as I just said, MI at least tied (the Rethugs would need to win TWO to grab it), and then win that FL-15 seat, that is why, in my comments at the link to it above, I called it potentially the most important House race in the nation in 2020, along with AK (see above) and MT (see above)



There are some long-shot ways to take away a delegation (not gain though) as well

1. Flip a seat in KS, KS-2 is the only chance, and it is going to take a miracle

2. Flip a seat in WI (hyper gerrymandered though, on a fair map we would have a 5-3 advantage, not a 3-5 deficit)

3. Flip a seat in UT (but just holding our only seat (Ben McAdams) in UT-4, is going to be so hard, and the other 3 are impossible)

4. Flip a seat in MS (basically impossible)

5. Flip a seat in ID (basically impossible)

[uponit7771]

60. 👍

[electric_blue68]

57. IF drumph wins it's probably Cheating, Putin & EC...

Which would mean America is still worth saving.

Even if drumph 😱 legitimately won, I'm sure it wouldn't be by that much. There'd still be a big minority of folks with more caring views. That's worth saving!

There are still so many people don't vote.

And besides people who couldn't relocate....

If it's more or less the Southern States maaaaybe a couple of Mid Western States right next to them splitting off -

what about all the black people that's be stranded there?! Yikes! 😥

[Blasphemer]

70. 100% agree. It would also represent a polar shift on the global stage

The EU alone cannot preserve Western democracy. And climate change? Forget about it. China would follow a strong West but without that, it's well and truly over.

[struggle4progress]

75. America is a work in progress. It has always been a work in progress.