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steve2470

(37,457 posts)
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 02:32 PM Sep 2020

Trump (according to Michael Cohen): "You think I'm stupid, I wasn't going to Vietnam"

. ⁦@TheAtlantic⁩ article is accurate. I testified, “Trump claimed it was because of a bone spur. When I asked for medical records, he gave me none and said there was no surgery. He finished with: ‘You think I’m stupid, I wasn’t going to Vietnam.”



23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Trump (according to Michael Cohen): "You think I'm stupid, I wasn't going to Vietnam" (Original Post) steve2470 Sep 2020 OP
Kick dalton99a Sep 2020 #1
Yup Leghorn21 Sep 2020 #2
Attention, John Kelly Cirque du So-What Sep 2020 #3
Right... Escurumbele Sep 2020 #11
I hate him, but RazzleCat Sep 2020 #4
In All Honesty Can You Blame Him (For Not Wanting To Go)? modrepub Sep 2020 #5
I don't blame him for not wanting to go to Vietnam marlakay Sep 2020 #7
It's calling those who went "stupid" that is the problem Blecht Sep 2020 #9
No, because I didn't have to. However, ... sarge43 Sep 2020 #12
Like Cheney, if he had opposed the war I wouldn't blame dflprincess Sep 2020 #15
your view is perfect hindsight llashram Sep 2020 #17
Putting Politicians "In Charge" of War Is A Big Problem modrepub Sep 2020 #20
I served under Westmoreland llashram Sep 2020 #22
That has nothing to do with this issue JI7 Sep 2020 #21
The good news is that Chump may well have saved lives Totally Tunsie Sep 2020 #6
Thank you, Mr. Cohen! smirkymonkey Sep 2020 #8
In this corner, decorated veteran and 2004 presidential candidate, John Kerrey Mr. Ected Sep 2020 #10
TRUMP IS A COWARD THE TRUTH IS HERE ::: trueblue2007 Sep 2020 #13
Remember how Bill Clinton got trashed for not going but yet trump gets a pass nt maryellen99 Sep 2020 #14
Fred enid602 Sep 2020 #16
Money is privilege. ffr Sep 2020 #18
Which is one of the main reasons Nations collapse. MarcA Sep 2020 #19
Drumpf's Bone Spurs BlueWavePsych Sep 2020 #23

Leghorn21

(13,524 posts)
2. Yup
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 02:38 PM
Sep 2020

Thanks, steve, I was checking last night to see if MC had any insight about this

YUP

(posted at 4:38 AM? On his way to bed or just woke up?)

Cirque du So-What

(25,922 posts)
3. Attention, John Kelly
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 02:38 PM
Sep 2020

Are you going to remain silent and allow rump’s consigliere to prove himself more honorable than you by speaking the truth?

RazzleCat

(732 posts)
4. I hate him, but
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 02:51 PM
Sep 2020

I can't get mad at working to avoid the draft. I am old enough to remember the fear of what number my bother would get. How people who could get a deferment did so, via education. So no blame for the evading. BLAME for thinking their losers/suckers. Said brothers step daughter in the military, same brother (prior to her enlistment) made and gave guitars to the USO. Husband had a deferment, but his kid enlisted (2nd marriage), he also worked the USO, the overnight's because no one else would. You could have evaded the draft and still admire and respect military personnel.

modrepub

(3,493 posts)
5. In All Honesty Can You Blame Him (For Not Wanting To Go)?
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 02:56 PM
Sep 2020

Aside the "looser" comment on people dying while serving their military, which if true is despicable, does anyone really think Vietnam was worth the country's sacrifice? In the long term, wouldn't it have been better to allow the Vietnamese determine their own destiny (somewhat peacefully)? Vietnam is more aligned with us now than they were after the Communists won, which still may have been the case if we had never gotten so heavily involved.

I don't think this country has really come to terms with the Vietnam War and the fact that we let the policy people in government lead us down a road we were not really truly committed to. My father volunteered to serve because he didn't want a bad draft lottery to send him to the front lines where he could be killed, injured or exposed to the really traumatizing conflict that he had heard about. Trump, while despicable, was at least smart enough to know that Vietnam was a fools errand. I don't blame anyone who didn't want to go serve in that war from doing all that they could to avoid going by any stretch, even Limbaugh, Bush and Cheney (don't forget Clinton). I do recognize the unfairness of connected people avoiding service but I also question our involvement in the first place.

I still think that demonizing men who didn't want to go to fight in Vietnam without addressing the mistakes our country/government made in getting involved in that war is just not right. Disrespecting the military, which Trump appears to be doing, is fair game though.

marlakay

(11,447 posts)
7. I don't blame him for not wanting to go to Vietnam
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 03:30 PM
Sep 2020

Most didn't. I blame him for lying about it and acting like he loves the military when the opposite is true.

I detest him for using military and christians for votes and you can bet he calls christians suckers too probably calls his entire stupid base suckers.



Blecht

(3,803 posts)
9. It's calling those who went "stupid" that is the problem
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 03:40 PM
Sep 2020

And allowing five people who were too "stupid" to get out of it to go in his place.

sarge43

(28,941 posts)
12. No, because I didn't have to. However, ...
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 04:21 PM
Sep 2020

the poor guy, probably black, who did go in his place probably had issues.

dflprincess

(28,075 posts)
15. Like Cheney, if he had opposed the war I wouldn't blame
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 04:39 PM
Sep 2020

him for avoiding it but neither one of them cared as long as they didn't have to go.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
17. your view is perfect hindsight
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 05:03 PM
Sep 2020

and the domino theory which was accepted by every POTUS from the Korean War up to and including Nixon was the driving force on the escalation in Vietnam. Kissinger was a vocal proponent. Growing up an Army brat led me to believe that serving my country was/is an honourable pursuit. Military people on the ground, the grunts fighting and dying just follow orders and when you are in the shit, republican or Democrat, don't matter. I came out of Vietnam as a vet against the Vietnam War because of the horrible waste and carnage I experienced there and I wasn't a ground pounder there.

I volunteered because it was the right thing to do and I did come to realize those that went north to escape the draft were on the right side of history. Those thousands upon thousands who protested against the war were on the right side of history. Yes, political considerations can come together to make it seem that prosecuting a war against our fellow human being is the right thing to do. Yet once in the military, the political is one thing, the reality on the ground is another. Sen. Duckworth knows that the late Sen. McCain knew that and every soldier knows the order is the priority of the mission. Everything else gets sorted out afterwards.

D. trump calling all who served and the many who gave all in the defence of this country "losers" and "suckers" 'right' war or not is inexcusable and totally indefensible.

That's the point as I see it, not 'right' war or 'wrong' war

I demonize the entitlement of d. trump he never ever had to worry about service to this country in the military simply because he did not have to go because of his money. Yeah, he thought military service was stupid and by extension, every soldier was also and to him, I was a "sucker" and if I had died, I would also have been a "loser". A lot of us volunteered because we were naive to the political implications or were drafted and right or wrong war served anyway. I will never give d.trump a pass for his cowardice and for being a traitor to our military.

If you had served and found out a bounty was put on your head by a foreign government and your CIC NEVER even mentioned it to his friend, leader of that foreign government who put the bounty on the American military personnel, how would you think you would feel?

modrepub

(3,493 posts)
20. Putting Politicians "In Charge" of War Is A Big Problem
Sat Sep 5, 2020, 09:01 AM
Sep 2020

because politicians, to nearly a whole, can not admit mistakes. It was Kennedy and Johnson that drew us into that conflict and no one after that was big enough to end it. Johnson probably came the closest to realizing it was a mistake but he just quit rather than be saddled with one in the loss column. You just have to read what Westmoreland had to say about Vietnam well after it to know there's just a huge disconnect from reality no one seemed to acknowledge.

The problem with a lot of people like Trump and Cheney is their cavalier attitude towards the military. It's a plaything to them, an opportunity to puff out their chest and play soldier and let others do the dirty work (I'll fight to the last drop of your blood). And they are not alone in that attitude, there are plenty of militia type people who love to play soldier, swagger around with guns and talk tough. Those people wouldn't last 2 hours in a real combat situation (and neither would I).

My mother only peripherally talks about what she heard from my father's friends when they came back from Vietnam. I'll never push her to tell me what they said because it's macabre and would upset her terribly (and I won't put her through that this late in life, and my father passed years ago). My father's side of the family suffered for nearly 4 years under Japanese occupation. My uncle was tall for his age so he and my grandfather were pressed into service by the Japanese shortly after the island of Guam fell; he spent the first night in a bomb crater crying for his mother, he was 9 years old. He also told one of his kids about the time he was almost late to shine the Japanese officers boots and fell into a pit filled with dismembered bodies. My brother in law joined shortly after Sept 11th. He got assigned to black ops operations in SE Asia to fight a muslim insurgency. He told my brother he had to kill a 10 yo kid; it was him or the kid (how do you live with that, what the hell are we asking people to do in "our name"?!?)

Sorry, war is hell. It sucks. I'm with Gen Meade; never ask someone to do something on the battlefield you are not willing to do yourself. That attitude nearly cost him the command of the Arm of the Potomac. It pisses me off that we haven't come to terms with how the military is used. I suppose all wars are a dirty business and sometimes they are forced upon us, generally by people who have no appreciation for the sacrifice they are asking others to make. I'm especially upset that we don't seem to give one iota about what our combat veterans have to suffer through or that they are going to be exposed to extreme violence, like my brother in law, and probably be given no help as to how to cope with the trauma they are exposed to. It's no surprise to me that the suicide rate is so high among our returning combat vets or that they are prone to extreme violence when they return state side. And that's on all of us because this is just swept under the rug or chalked up to the price "we" (not the veterans themselves) have to pay. It's b--ls--t!

IMO we need to go back to a clean draft because unless the American people have to collectively saddle the burden our politicians seem so eager to ask of our military personnel we're never going to learn that war is expensive. It costs lots of $, at times it exposes people (both military and civilians) to extreme traumatizing violence, separates families for long periods of time exposing them to periods of extreme anxiety and generally taxes the soul of humanity. It's too easy and pushed off onto other folks, some of them willing, some of them with no other choice and sometimes under false pretenses. We all need to have "skin in the game". Sorry for the long rant.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
22. I served under Westmoreland
Sat Sep 5, 2020, 10:18 AM
Sep 2020

and he was nothing more than a political animal as all military people are when reaching those levels of command. It's the way it has always been. And I hope one day your generation or other's see a peaceful end to war but Eisenhouwer said it best, paraphrasing: "beware of the military-industrial complex" yet he failed to say in the hands of RW fascists intent on total control of this system. I know my history and WWII and the causes of it are an area of intense scrutiny by me. Your family's background is illuminating given the cruelty of the Japanese at that time, the Rape of Nanking stands out to me. Their island campaigns to widen their geo-political-military influence were atrocious.

Because my father was at Normandy Beach and the Chosin Reservoir debacle. We were both in Vietnam and he hated MacArthur for letting that happen, his intel was faulty at best, a million Chinese soldiers massed for an attack that caused many American soldiers/personnel casualties. He was a political animal and would usually not brook dissent within the ranks of his staff. Sound familiar? We talked long hours about the justification for our wars. Some good, others are opaque and hidden but enough of history.

We are in the fight of our lives now and we are the closest to losing our way of life to fascist forces who have been intent from at least Joe McCarthy days in the 50's with the 'Red Scare', on gaining and keeping power into perpetuity. It's ironic to me that the enemy of those days now has a friend in the White House. We are not so far apart in our thinking. I hate war. Yet history has always shown we must fight sometimes to maintain what we cherish in this county. It is a fact that we humans have always been in a violent confrontation with each other for varied reasons over our history on this planet. Always has been a fact of life.

At this juncture of current history this is another challenge and won't be the last for the forces of liberalism to stand up again and fight the McCarthy 1.0's. Just vote and get out the vote. At this time it is all we have to prove to the nefarious forces of the fascist RW that we will defend our position in this country. It's just the way things have worked out. Reasons are many, our fault for not being vocal enough and our media playing up the virtues of a d. trump, when there were none. All these infotainment pundits now all the sudden seeing that they can lose the freedoms we all take for granted and I spit in their faces. They along with other major reason are responsible for what we have going on at this time. But nothing can be done about that. NOW IS IMPORTANT.

I got Biden/Harris signs and I planted them, with owners consent in this town and the next. And at this time in our nation's progress, they are the hope, politicians or not, media culpability or not.

You are correct. Some politicians in my book have become totally jaded and have always been greedy and like the GOP ruling clique, totally evil. Yet this is the system in place and I can just hope after this election we end up on the right side of history repairing our government and healing or nation to march on into an uncertain future at least trying to stop all war which I don't know will ever happen. But we must try. Good reading your thread responses and good luck. I have enjoyed this discourse. Stay well.

Totally Tunsie

(10,885 posts)
6. The good news is that Chump may well have saved lives
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 03:29 PM
Sep 2020

by not going to Vietnam. With his narcissism and affluenza, he could well have been more of a problem as opposed to being a dedicated soldier. There's no room in the camps or on the battlefield for someone of his ilk. He's no more "special" than any of his would-be cohorts, and it wouldn't be long until that was made clear to him. He would, in fact, be a danger to every soldier in his squad.

Mr. Ected

(9,670 posts)
10. In this corner, decorated veteran and 2004 presidential candidate, John Kerrey
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 03:43 PM
Sep 2020

In this corner, confirmed coward and draft dodger Donald J. Trump.

Let the swiftboating begin!

trueblue2007

(17,203 posts)
13. TRUMP IS A COWARD THE TRUTH IS HERE :::
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 04:34 PM
Sep 2020

In his prepared remarks before answering questions before the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday, Cohen described how Trump tried to defuse questions about his service during the campaign. Cohen mentioned that Trump disparaged the military service of the late senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) even as Trump “tasked me to handle the negative press surrounding his medical deferment from the Vietnam draft.”
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“Mr. Trump claimed it was because of a bone spur,” Cohen said, “but when I asked for medical records, he gave me none and said there was no surgery.” He added, “He finished the conversation with the following comment: ‘You think I’m stupid, I wasn’t going to Vietnam.’”

As The Washington Post wrote in December, Trump was apparently the beneficiary of two vital favors that allowed him to avoid service during the Vietnam War. He received four draft deferments while he was in college. There was a gap, though: Trump left Fordham University in November 1966 and was classified by the Selective Service board as eligible for military service. In short order, he enrolled at Wharton School of Business — thanks in part to an interview with “a friendly Wharton admissions officer who was one of [Trump’s father’s] old high school classmates,” author Gwenda Blair wrote in her biography of the Trump family. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/27/michael-cohens-prepared-testimony-aims-trumps-achilles-heel-vietnam-deferments/

enid602

(8,610 posts)
16. Fred
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 05:00 PM
Sep 2020

tRump's daddy owned the office of the Doctor who signed off on the bone spurs diagnosis. The lease was up. . .

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
19. Which is one of the main reasons Nations collapse.
Fri Sep 4, 2020, 05:38 PM
Sep 2020

The oligarchs no longer have any use for it after they have stolen its wealth and the rest
have no means or good reason to support it's empty shell.

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