General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMilitary officials are discussing 'disobeying unlawful' orders over fears of what Trump might do: ex
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/military-officials-are-discussing-disobeying-unlawful-orders-over-fears-of-what-trump-might-do-ex-marine-lawmaker/Published 1 min ago on September 6, 2020By Tom Boggioni
Speaking remotely with MSNBCs Alex Witt, Rep. Seth Mouton (D) who served in Iraq as a Marine criticized Donald Trump for his comments calling U.S. servicepeople losers and suckers and said dissatisfaction with the president is pervasive within the armed forces.
Asked by the host how past and present U.S. military members view the president, the moderate Massachusetts lawmaker was blunt.
What have you heard from troops? host Witt asked. Those that are your constituent, veterans that have come home or those who youre in contact?
Well, Im not going to speak for every veteran, but I cant tell you how many have reached out to me and said that they have discussions now in the military about what it means to disobey unlawful orders, because they fully expect them from the commander in chief, Mouton replied. There are a lot of people, even inside the White House, who believe that hes going to try to get the military to keep him in power after he loses this election to Joe Biden."
More at link.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)I am really glad to see this!
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Mariana
(14,854 posts)Of course they must disobey unlawful orders. Discussion should consist of reviewing with all personnel how to distinguish a lawful order from an unlawful order, and stressing that they are required to disobey the latter.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)I feel so sad for our superb military being in the position of a KNOWN TRAITOR, a russian asset, as CiC.
This must be a first for our military!
Aristus
(66,316 posts)A service member is legally, ethically, and morally obligated to disobey unlawful orders.
We're not the Wehrmacht. Obeying all orders unquestioningly, no matter how immoral, is not something the U.S. military teaches.
Soldiers in American service who commit atrocities do so because they want to, not because they're ordered to.
Lock him up.
(6,925 posts)... he "upped" himself, hiding deep down in his bunker.
The $tupid betRayer-in-chief called them losers and suckers all his criminal life, but the gReedy media refused to admit it was true.
sarisataka
(18,600 posts)but to decide if an order is unlawful.
Most people picture the military being ordered to fire on unarmed civilians- that's easy, it clearly is unlawful. It is the grey area where an order seems reasonable and good but still is unlawful.
That for example a unit being ordered to support law enforcement in an area of unrest. In many cases nothing is illegal about such support as long as a Federal military unit is not being used to enforce the law. However where is the line between support and enforcement? Very clear and specific orders are needed to define a mission to prevent inadvertently crossing the line and following an unlawful order.
I have been in a unit that did refuse orders as being unlawful. It is not an easy thing to do and you must make sure you are 100% correct to avoid punishment.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Because if you haven't made a plan when an illegal order is issued, it's way too late to start thinking about ethics and oaths and loyalties and your comrades in arms.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Putin has been jealous of our military for a long time. Now he is seething, no doubt.
Morale must be so low in military with a known traitor as CiC.
KS Toronado
(17,199 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)I'll sleep better tonight knowing they are not likely to nuke one of our metro areas for chumputin!
onetexan
(13,036 posts)Role in the election. I take it to mean theyve already discussed this amongst themselves & decided they will preempt the situation by declaring such ahead of time. Im confident our military leaders will do the right thing & lead their troops to follow suit.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Morale must be so low in military with known russian asset as CiC.
I trust real patriots to do what is right. I am sure there are plenty of super patriotic lifers who would like to tell their boss off!
onetexan
(13,036 posts)Have to salute him when he enters/ exits AF1, that if i were them instead of saluting the Con i'd flip him the bird
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Dunno how they can stomach him.
usaf-vet
(6,181 posts)Here is some interesting followup discussion from a Google search.
https://www.quora.com/Under-what-circumstances-can-the-military-legally-disobey-an-order-from-the-President
This was one answer the stood out for me
I personally believe the current president has proven himself UNFIT to be CIC. In this veteran's mind, Trump calling those that now wear the uniform or have worn the uniform LOSERS and SUCKERS is enough in my mind.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Putin has long been very jealous of our amazing military, therefore, chumputin feels a need to denegrate our service members.
His fat, traiterous needs to be locked up!
erronis
(15,241 posts)appointees.
The contractors represent the $$$s - the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) and have lots of vested interests and power in how things go.
I'm sure the trump administration has been seeding most of the departments and services with the equivalents of the USSR's "commisars" - people that keep an eye on loyalty.
I'd be very wary of being part of a group that was meeting to discuss plans on how to deal with this rogue.
As with the intelligence community.
The WH has been given instructions from the Kremlin on how to handle dissidents.
Lonestarblue
(9,971 posts)If Trump unleashes his army of secret police cobbled together from every part of DHS, he could have thousands of troops to disrupt the counting of mail ballots and to join with the right-wing militias to essentially start a civil war when he loses. Will each states National Guard be enough to overcome such a force, and would Republican-run states simply order their National Guard to join Trump?
These are my nightmare scenarios, and we might need the help of the US military just to maintain order.
ARPad95
(1,671 posts)They already do in solidarity with the Orange Turd and his rabid base.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)They should not, but some likely have & will.
But at lease military won't!
LiberalArkie
(15,713 posts)Remember Eisenhower had to use the 101st Airborne and later on Governor Orval Faubus ordered the Arkansas National Guard to Little Rock Central High School on September 4, 1957, because he said he had evidence (although none was shown) that there was "imminent danger of tumult, riot and breach of peace and the doing of violence to persons and property.
sarge43
(28,941 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)The Orange Moron would launch nukes if he thought it might help him retain the presidency.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)I hope our military will keep him from nuking us!
C Moon
(12,212 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)And he is, no doubt, diving for the phone to get putin's next order.
ailsagirl
(22,896 posts)I'm still flabbergasted that it's come to this-- what a nightmare!!!!!
Can we get President Obama back???
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Imagine living during 😍bama admin & watching a dystopian movie where military is making such statements. 🤯🤯🤯
bucolic_frolic
(43,128 posts)white suits and sedation will be necessary.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)BlueWavePsych
(2,635 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Repulsive traitor!