WOODWARD is the Albert SPEER in this latest episode

[UTUSN]

After 3 1/2 years of the daily dread, I thought there could be no worse that SHITLER could come up with, but the COVID genocide hit like a shock of all of the ones put together, knocking his military-country-HATE from the top spot.

But after the numbness of the day started settling in, it dawned slowly that, besides that SHITLER knew: WOODWARD *knew*. The first wave of shock was all about SHITLER, but there's enough shock left over to cover the Lesser-Ones, too - the accessories, the collaborators.

The Albert SPEERs. He was the "good Nazi," or that's how he tried to make himself over. He was the one who was an architect, who put on the light shows at the Nuremberg rallies, the one who was "above it all," who was focused on "building" and putting images into concrete. After his prison time he published his book pushing an image of not being involved in the Horror part of things.

Yeah, right.

So I wasn't bashing WOODWARD when the first teasers came out, although his Watergate glory has been long over for me. I remember that he started out in Naval Intelligence, and the big marker about his "interviewing" (name) who was in a coma, besides the pitter patter of his softening things for W. Shrub.

But with this episode, it solidified in my mind: Wait a minit! WOODWARD not only taped but heard these things as early as he did and he WAITED UNTIL HIS F***ING BOOK CAME OUT!

This "secondary" wave of shock is gaining ground.

[empedocles]

1. Stalin certainly had flaws - but he was important to the victory

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Don't deflect the blame. It was always Trump's responsibility and duty.

Deflecting blame away from Trump is the GOP's game; don't play it with them.

[Miguelito Loveless]

12. The river of blame has more than enough room to drown the guilty.

Sticking Woodward in that river doesn't mean there is now no water left for Trump.

[UTUSN]

15. Thank you.

[UTUSN]

14. I'm going to answer your post as the first one of the same, and address all the following ones

I am in no way "deflecting" away from SHITLER. I used the word "secondary." It is insulting to a good DUer (me, and I consider you and others ones, too) to cast aspersions of "play(ing)" the game with Wingnuts, or to smear me with Fox or the other violations of DU rules and civility with regard to me.

My point has nothing to do with deflecting from SHITLER. My whole point of featuring SPEER was to show that there is plenty of responsibility to go around. It is incredible that you and the others would confuse SPEER-as-deflecting-from-ADOLFHITLER with the SHITLER role in accountability.


Since we're off on that tangent, I will broaden my point to say that there are OTHERS besides WOODWARD I would include: *WHO* was telling SHITLER how bad things were? THEY are responsible, too, for keeping their traps shut while he was spouting off his crap in public.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. I intended no insult. It just bothers me that people are talking about Woodward

when the focus should be Trump, whose job was to tell the truth and manage the situation, but he didn't do it because he didn't want to panic the stock market. We should be talking about Trump and not Woodward, who has offered a fairly plausible explanation for why he did what he did (he didn't know where Trump got his information and he didn't even know whether it was true). Trump and the people who work for him own this, 100%. And where was Pence, who was supposed to be the head of the task force and presumably got the same briefings?

[UTUSN]

19. Perhaps you meant no insult, but the others did. Plus, what part of "secondary" and the word "AND"

don't compute with the scads of posters saying the same "deflection" thing?

Including SPEER in blame does NOT deflect or exonerate Adolf HITLER. Same for WOODWARD vs SHITLER.

I don't see what is so complicated about this.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Oferchrissakes-- more whining about Woodward when Trump is the point.

[smirkymonkey]

8. +1000

It amazes me how easily people get roped into falling for and reinforcing their narrative, which is only helping Trump and the republicans.

Woodward is no saint, but that isn't the important thing right now. This was the President's responsibility. A LOT of people knew and said or did nothing.

[fleur-de-lisa]

4. Folks keep stating that it wasn't Woodward's responsibility and that Dump is totally at fault.

All true, but Woodward is a human being. If I were in his place, I would have felt an obligation to do SOMETHING. I'm not sure what, since I wasn't there and I don't know all the details. I don't think I could have just kept on writing a book after having heard what Dump was hiding form the American people while roughly 1,000 people were dying each day.

[UTUSN]

20. Thank you.

[brush]

23. It was trump's responsibility. Here's a take from CNN this morning.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214053379

[snowybirdie]

5. This argument is

the one touted by Faux News. Let's kill the messenger and forget about the perpetrator (s). I'm focusing my anger on those in charge and not perpetuate right wing excuses.

[Drunken Irishman]

6. Ah yes. Another post focusing a bulk of the blame on Woodward. Smart!

This is exactly what Trump wants: more outrage toward Woodward, which means less outrage toward him and you're giving it to him.

He absolutely wants people to attack Woodward because then it undermines Woodward's message. You guys are being played by a moron. Congrats.

[Act_of_Reparation]

9. Thousands of undecided voters are going to pull the lever for Trump based on what they read on DU?

Interesting.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. Beat those drums strong enough and other outlets pick up on it.

This isn't a DU thing. It's a liberal thing. Liberals are terrible at politics. So, you'll start seeing liberal people in the press actively attacking and questioning Woodward. It'll get bigger and bigger until it's equal to Trump's issue and then all the anger that should be focused on Trump shifts to Woodward.

It is what it is. Liberals are just stupidily incompetent when it comes to driving the narrative.

[Act_of_Reparation]

26. Do I have to post the definition of "slippery slope"?

[Drunken Irishman]

27. Sure because we're heading down it.

In a week, all anyone will be talking about is Bob Woodward while Trump slides back into the background.

[Act_of_Reparation]

32. Well, okay then.

[Montelimar]

7. Right wing propaganda

[Hekate]

24. No it is not, Montelimar, it is a difference of opinion & we are thrashing it out all over the Board

Calling out a fellow DUer for “Right wing propaganda” will get you in trouble, though. Reconsider.

[DonaldsRump]

10. Trump is the sole and only focus

Does anyone really think that Trump/Re-putin-cans would have changed anything if this had come out???

Nope.

Do not lose the focus. Trump and Hannity are both blaming Woodward. We should not fall for this.

TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, and ONLY TRUMP Fubar'ed this. Never let them forget this.

[Spazito]

13. No hyperbole here, nosiree!

[Beringia]

16. It is interesting how some people distance themselves

from the significance of something and others don't.

[Spazito]

21. It is interesting, isn't it...

The significance of trump's culpability seems to be largely ignored during the distancing. Go figure.

[nsd]

18. Enough about Woodward!

Focus on Trump.

[Hekate]

22. I am going to have to live with my mea culpa for having defended Woodward ...

I’m taking some hits, but that’s okay. I posted it in the wee hours, and is basically all Charles Pierce.

But it wasn’t just Pierce, which I read here after turning off the tv from a long news day. It was listening to Mara Gay be part of an MSNBC late night panel reacting to the book and its contents. She survived C19, but her ordeal with ill-health is far from over. She had taken the recommended precautions, and was being careful. She said though, that had she known then what she knows now, she might well have chosen to not take airline flights all around the campaign trail.

Mara Gay was trying with all her might to not criticize a fellow journalist, one of the Watergate Heroes, but I could see the effort was costing her a lot. She spoke measuredly, as one might when receiving news of a diagnosis of metastasized cancer in a loved one. (Be rational. Be calm. Be professional.) But to my eyes she was on the verge of tears the whole time. Had she but known.

It is possible to hold two thoughts at once (even if you can’t quite believe 6 impossible things before breakfast). I hold the Orange Monster and his legion of enablers 100% responsible for the gawdawful mess we are in — the deaths, the wreckage.

But Woodward, as Pierce so vehemently pointed out, is in a different profession.

There’s always leaks. I don’t know the way of these things, but the WH itself leaks like a sieve. Woodward could have reached back, way far back, to the time when he was a young reporter, and he could have sent up a flare.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214051862

[brush]

25. Try this link on Woodward.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214053379

[Hekate]

28. Thanks

[lunatica]

29. I'm amazed at how many people are attacking this OP

I respect Woodward up to a point. He tells the truth so I can respect that, but he sat on very important information that would have made a difference as far as real living people dying. Perhaps these DUers attacking your message should think about what it’s like to have a beloved family member die needlessly. And to die alone after being terribly sick.

I know it’s possible for DUers to hold two conflicting feelings about one person. But you wouldn’t know it to read this thread.

I want to hear why Woodward sat on this information as the death rate hit the ceiling in state after state. I want to hear it from him. And I want that even as I don’t give Trump a second’s worth of a pass.

[Hestia]

30. That interview section was back in February and Covid-19 was really not in the news

No one was really talking about it. I believe it was before the European and China airline shutdowns. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Put the blame where it belongs, squarely on *its shoulders. If he knew it was a big deal, it should have been emphasized.

[UTUSN]

31. Are you going to Kick all the other threads on this topic with the same point of view already made?

Since you've kicked it up, I'll say again: Nobody could say that pointing out that pipsqueak SPEER was (also) a Nazi wipes out the Everest horror that was Adolf HITLER.

It is some kind of strange foolishness for anybody on this board to think that pointing out that WOODWARD, as a mere human being finding out that a house was on fire, had a human being's share of responsibility to momentarily drop his Reporter's role and sound an alarm.

This in NO CONCEIVABLE way is "deflecting" or erasing or absolving or excusing or apologizing (insert the whole freaking Roget here) for freaking SHITLER's responsibility or culpability or inhumanity or (insert here, ad infinitum).