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Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:48 PM

When did you learn, The Pledge of Allegiance....?


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Reply When did you learn, The Pledge of Allegiance....? (Original post)
pbmus Sep 11 OP
TreasonousBastard Sep 11 #1
abqtommy Sep 11 #12
ananda Sep 11 #25
2naSalit Sep 11 #13
MoonRiver Sep 12 #39
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 11 #2
TreasonousBastard Sep 11 #7
Mme. Defarge Sep 11 #9
TreasonousBastard Sep 11 #11
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 11 #10
TreasonousBastard Sep 11 #18
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 11 #20
TreasonousBastard Sep 11 #22
PETRUS Sep 11 #23
TreasonousBastard Sep 11 #26
dewsgirl Sep 11 #3
redstatebluegirl Sep 11 #4
stillcool Sep 11 #5
leftieNanner Sep 11 #6
flor-de-jasmim Sep 11 #8
Chainfire Sep 11 #14
rzemanfl Sep 11 #15
GoCubsGo Sep 11 #16
Kitchari Sep 11 #19
madamesilverspurs Sep 11 #17
Rhiannon12866 Sep 11 #21
MyNameGoesHere Sep 11 #24
Wellstone ruled Sep 11 #27
Solly Mack Sep 11 #28
Klaralven Sep 11 #29
WePurrsevere Sep 11 #30
lettucebe Sep 11 #31
KewlKat Sep 11 #32
Demovictory9 Sep 11 #33
maveric Sep 11 #34
cwydro Sep 11 #35
Golden Raisin Sep 11 #36
Mossfern Sep 12 #41
Wicked Blue Sep 12 #37
bluestarone Sep 12 #38
bikebloke Sep 12 #40
hunter Sep 12 #42
DFW Sep 12 #43

Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:49 PM

1. First grade?

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:12 PM

12. Me too! I was 6 years old then, in 1955...

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Response to abqtommy (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:46 PM

25. Same

First grade -- I started when I was 5 in 1954.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:15 PM

13. Yup.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 12, 2020, 11:45 AM

39. Same for me.

And since we said it every day, it was impossible to forget, unless you're Chumpy.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:49 PM

2. Before the under god was put in.

And when it was added, the nuns at the Catholic school I attended were not at all happy. They actually understood what is meant by separation of church and state.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:56 PM

7. That was in 1954, and I suspect the nuns were worried that it wasn't Catholic Jesus they meant...

Which was a large part of the reason for separation of church and state.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:01 PM

9. I was in second grade

and remember that adding “under God” was very controversial at the time, which I as beyond my understanding.

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Response to Mme. Defarge (Reply #9)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:05 PM

11. Me too-- I remember a certain amount of screaming from Jews and Catholics in NYC at the time...

and the public school I was going to at the time had trouble with it.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #7)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:03 PM

10. No. And I think you are assuming something about the nuns that isn't true.

The Catholic population in this country was extremely small at the time the Constitution was written. The men writing it were very aware of what could go wrong with a state religion. They weren't concerned about the Catholics.

Oh, and the very first colony to actually guarantee the people there could worship however they pleased, was Maryland. Founded by Catholics.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:26 PM

18. My bad wording. The Founders weren't thinking specifically about American Catholics, but about...

the history of religious warfare (or, more often, religion used as a cover for wars of expansion and revolution) that they were all too familiar with. The early population was loaded with European expats escaping religious persecution. They all knew about Muslim incursions in to Europe and the wars of the Reformation, including the Thirty Years War. This was a new world, and those old problems need not be brought into it.

A state religion, no matter which one, is simply cause for tension and often war.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:36 PM

20. Right. And that was EXACTLY why the nuns understood

that adding under God was such a bad idea.

Also, putting In God We Trust on currency and coins. Very bad idea.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:44 PM

22. Yeah, but coins had it since the Civil War and we eventually put it everywhere thanks to ...

"atheistic Communism".

The 50s was a really screwed up time.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:46 PM

23. I agree with you about the problems of a state religion.

On the other hand, the absence of a state religion doesn't seem to help in terms of avoiding tension or war.

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Response to PETRUS (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:48 PM

26. True enough. Just one less reason for it, and it does reduce internal strife a little.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:50 PM

3. Pre School.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:50 PM

4. My Mom had a home movie of me at age 5

reciting the Pledge before my first day of kindergarten.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:52 PM

5. I went to Catholic School...

seems like I was always standing up pledging something to someone.

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Response to stillcool (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:54 PM

6. LOL

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 05:59 PM

8. First grade

I still remember the teacher saying that it was the hand we write with that goes over the heart. Being a leftie,...

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:19 PM

14. School ritual, 1-12

Pledge of allegiance, followed by the Lord's Prayer. It was a public school, not private or religious.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:22 PM

15. Before I started kindergarten in 1952. I had a plaque with the old wording on it.

I have never said the added words.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:23 PM

16. Kindergarten.

When we got to "for which it stands," I thought it was "for witches' stands." I always pictured a bunch of witches around a cauldron when we got to that part. It made no sense, but neither did the pledge at that age.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:33 PM

19. Ha!

I used to think they were saying "Richard stands"

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:26 PM

17. Before the words were added.

Took a while for the adjustment to take effect. For quite a while, and more often than not, enough of us would stumble the wording and we'd dissolve into giggles because we sounded so goofy.


.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:41 PM

21. Twitter reply:

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:46 PM

24. God who knows?

That shit was force fed from kindergarten I think.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:53 PM

27. Kindergarden,

August 1945,way before the Fundies added "under God" crap in 1954.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:57 PM

28. I have older siblings. I'm the baby. So before I started school.

I stopped (participating) for good in the 3rd grade. Still don't say it. Don't even pretend to say it.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 06:57 PM

29. I never understood pledging allegiance to the flag. It's a piece of colored cloth, right?

The pledge should read:

"I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, one Nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

God and the Republican form of government can be omitted too.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 07:07 PM

30. ATM I don't recall a time I didn't know it...

or to stand straight with my hand over my heart when a flag passed by in a parade or while singing/listening to the national anthem.

Trump went to a fancy 'military' type school didn't he? Eons ago I had friends that went to/had gone to local military schools in the Capital District of NY and unless the school Trump went to was incredibly lax (or he skipped a lot) there's no way a military type school didn't say the pledge every single day if not twice. I really think something is not syncing up right in Trump's head.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 08:43 PM

31. First or second grade? My nieces kids are here and they say they learned in Kindergarten

and said it in every grade.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 08:45 PM

32. First grade, 1960

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 08:47 PM

33. must have been first grade or earlier

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 08:48 PM

34. 1959-60.

Watching Big Brother Bob Emery on Boston TV.
He’d start the show with the pledge and a toast to the prez(Ike) with milk.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 08:48 PM

35. First grade I think.

Really don’t remember ever not knowing it.

And I’m a first generation child of two Brits.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Sep 11, 2020, 09:05 PM

36. Kindergarten or First Grade. Don't remember exactly

(it was 65 years ago!) but very early. My family moved and in my new town where I started 3rd grade we not only said the Pledge of Allegiance every day but the Lord's Prayer. Looking back I suspect it was just that one 3rd grade teacher as I don't remember the Lord's Prayer in any of my other elementary grades.

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Response to Golden Raisin (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 12, 2020, 11:56 AM

41. I went to NYC public schools

and I think we were taught it in either kindergarten or 1st grade. When we were old enough to read, we would read from the Book of Psalms after the pledge every morning. It was considered and honor to be chosen to read. Or course also, we were lined up every morning, had our fingernails checked and whether we had a handkerchief. Good grooming was very important!

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Sep 12, 2020, 11:37 AM

37. Kindergarten

and I didn't speak English at the time.

It seemed to me like some weird ritual of chanting mumbo jumbo. Since I was strictly on orders to obey the teacher. I tried to copy the sounds. Took a while to understand the words.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Sep 12, 2020, 11:41 AM

38. I believe it was

First grade here!

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Sep 12, 2020, 11:48 AM

40. First grade

...or maybe kindergarden.

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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Sep 12, 2020, 12:46 PM

42. I ignored it in school, didn't stand. Usually I was reading, or drawing spaceships and computers.

My mom was a Jehovah's Witness. She got kicked out of Witnesses because she couldn't stay out or politics. Then we were Quakers. The pledge is not acceptable to many religions.

In fourth grade I remember feeling dreadfully embarrassed when my well-meaning teacher pointed me out as an example of religious freedom in the U.S.A.. I was an odd child anyways and that only added to my aura of weirdness.

I actually tried to keep the pledge out of my head because I knew God could hear my thoughts. If I concentrated really hard on whatever I was doing I didn't hear it.




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Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Sep 12, 2020, 01:09 PM

43. Two other pledges:

The pledge not to believe Fox lies:

I pledge no credence to the bag
Of lies Fox tells to America
And to the injustice, for which it stands,
One station, shunned by God, indefensible,
With Hannity, disgusting for all.

As for that other one that kids in the States recite in public schools: When my elder daughter took her semester "abroad," she chose to go to the USA, to our local public high school in Dallas. She had never been to school in English before, or been in an American school. To make sure she didn't have too big a culture shock, I went with her and stayed for the first four days. After a few days, I asked her if she was adjusting. She said yeah, but it was REALLY different from what she was used to in Germany. I said that was to be expected, but was there anything in particular?

She said, yes, the ritual chanting they did every morning was really strange. RITUAL CHANTING? In a PUBLIC school? She said, yes, like Buddhists she had seen on TV. I couldn't believe it. I asked her to describe it. She said they all stood up and started chanting in unison like zombies. I asked what they were chanting. She said it started out with "I spread the peaches," and she couldn't make out the rest, as they all mumbled it incoherently. Now I was really confused. They all stood up and started chanting "I spread the peaches???" Is that all they did? She said pretty much. Oh, yeah, and they all put their right hands on their chests while they did it.

Oh. NOW I got it. I asked if they might be saying, "I pledge allegiance?" She said, "I don't know. What does THAT mean?" Her conversational English was good, but you just don't use the words "pledge" or "allegiance" in normal everyday conversation. So she just heard words that she did know. Ergo: I spread the peaches.

You have to understand that ever since the Nazis were defeated, Germans have disdained extremist displays of patriotism, remembering what it got them last time. Anything like that would be the LAST thing to expect in a German school. So, my daughter hadn't the slightest clue what was going on. After I explained it to her, she still wondered. "Doesn't everyone already know what country they're in, or where they're from?"

Forcing kids to say the pledge every day in school may seem like a given to us, but for someone who grew up elsewhere, it seems like something else entirely. The fact that the other kids mumbled the pledge in such boredom that an outsider couldn't even make out most of the words is evidence enough how little importance they attach to it.

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