Why would ANYONE who knows how bad rump is and how good of a person Joe is say AT THIS TIME

[Eliot Rosewater]

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2020, 07:24 PM - Edit history (1)

we have to give people a reason to vote for Joe?

Implies the campaign hasnt and so on.

So fucking MAD about this SHIT

If you dont know what I am talking about, I cant say it ...just google it

edit

Do I need to list the proposals and positions Joe and the party hold that improve lives vs what trump is doing? I didnt think I FUCKING had to

[Chainfire]

1. Say what?

[procon]

2. They are looking for the Magic Pony with Rainbow Poop.

Every election it's always the same whimpering, needy bunch who long for a perfect, plastic political candidate, a faux Gilded Lily that attracts even Trump loyalists. No real candidate is ever worthy of their approval because they're certain that their true knight in shining armor is waiting just around the corner... or it it that corner... no, maybe it's the corner over there...

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. Infuriating that anyone would say this, but someone did

[dansolo]

5. You have it backwards

The left attacks the Democratic Party much more than Republicans.

[JI7]

7. Biden won becsuse he won the base of the party. Those Sanders supporters are not liberals

many are resentful of minorities.

They identify and sympathize more with racists like Joe Rogan and Trump.

[George II]

23. And many have already stated openly on Twitter or Facebook that they won't vote for Biden. In fact..

....his National Co-Chair has already begun working on forming a third party, the "People's Party", with the aim of running against Democrats in 2024:

https://peoplesparty.org/

More than 400,000 people tuned in to the People’s Convention on August 30. A stellar line-up of speakers delivered a message of hope and determination, urging us onward toward our goal of building a new party free of corporate influence and power. A montage of video messages recorded by people from all walks of life, from all around the country, all telling their story, rounded out the convention message: “We need a People’s Party.”

During the coming year our members will draft a platform and decide on an official name for our party. Our organizing teams are already hard at work building local hubs, establishing a presence, and gaining ballot access. In 2021 we will be hosting our founding convention to establish the party, ready to run candidates in the 2022 midterms. In 2024 America will finally have the opportunity to elect a President who will serve the People.

https://progressive.org/dispatches/peoples-party-rises-amid-election-cook-200831/

“We’re going to get that neo-fascist out of the White House, and we’re going to build a People’s Party and get to work,” said former Ohio state Senator Nina Turner, chair of Bernie Sanders’s 2020 presidential campaign, as she culminated the first-ever online creation of a political party on Sunday, August 30, following five hours of webinar speeches melding outrage and inspiration.

They are not friends of the Democratic Party.

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. When the GOP and rump are killing us next year by taking SS and Medicare and

actively putting us in prison for not voting for him, I hope someone will shove this post of yours in your face. I wont be able to ,by then ANTI Joe people will have KILLED me with the virus or something else.

DNC does NOT fight harder against Bernie than the cons, you have it BACKWARDS

You are ACTIVELY working AGAINST the Biden campaign GO AWAY

Stop helping PUTIN and rump KILL ME and my family

[JI7]

6. Because they are shitty assholes

[cry baby]

8. I saw a bit of that interview.

I almost tuned it out, but the rest was pretty positive.

[betsuni]

10. "I think we have got to do more as a campaign than just go after Trump."

Exactly the same as 2016. Blame the nominee who obviously talks about policies all the time but the press doesn't cover it. "Media blackout" victim for one person, for another it's their own fault and they get scolded for only being "I'm not Trump."

[Eliot Rosewater]

11. So this person I cant name is working AGAINST us I guess...

[melman]

15. No this person you can't name wants Biden to win

Why does this outrage you so?

[betsuni]

18. At least that person admits that Biden has progressive policies (without using the word

"progressive," of course -- that's only for members of the secret club).

If they are worried that people want to hear about Biden's plans but aren't able to, the solution is obvious. Someone who's on TV all the time can go on and explain the plans themselves! That's what surrogates do! They can send emails to their supporters detailing the policies, write articles that will get in the news. TV, social media, personal appearances.

We will see.

[George II]

25. Yes, at a time when virtually EVERY ONE of the 2020 Democratic Presidential candidates....

....has been actively fundraising for Joe Biden (our nominee) and the Democratic Party, there's one who hasn't raised a penny for either.

Several of those candidates have had virtual/Zoom campaign appearances or even local live (in accordance with CDC guidelines) events, yet one has been conspicuously absent.

That's certainly not working with us.

[Eliot Rosewater]

28. It really fucking pisses me off, everyone who defends him

It really fucking pisses me off everyone who defends him really fucking pisses me off

[George II]

22. Of course not a peep about Biden's policies and positions, the policies and positions....

....upon which DEMOCRATS used to choose our nominee.

[betsuni]

26. If I were on TV a lot and wanted Biden to be elected, instead of saying that "people

want to hear what Joe is going to do" and suggest the Biden campaign talk more about it, I'd use my time to, you know, talk about his policy details myself. While I'm right in front of the camera and everything. Seems obvious.

[George II]

27. Joe isn't going to do anything if he isn't elected. That's what my father told me 60 years ago....

...."a politician's first responsibility is to get elected, otherwise he/she can't do anything!"

[mcar]

12. This +1000!

[Eliot Rosewater]

14. Thanks, how sad is it I needed to do a thread in the first place.

I see in WI the terror group known as the GOP has stopped counting absentee ballots.

America may have to do some unusual stuff to survive...they are stealing the election now.

[mcar]

17. We have to get out the vote in such huge numbers they can't steal it

Michelle Obama is right - people need to pack a lunch, bring a chair and prepare to wait.

Me, I'm voting by mail in FL, as I have for ages. I'll bring my ballot directly to the SOE. Then, on election day, I will be a poll watcher, looking out for shenanigans by the majority Repukes.

Here in my small, rural, red county, we actually have a team of Democrats/lawyers who will be on call all election day.

I feel hope.

[brooklynite]

13. Because "good" isn't generally enough of a reason.

[Eliot Rosewater]

16. Oh for FUCK SAKE I was doing short hand, i didnt have the time to list

the DOZENS of proposals he has and the party has that would improve everyone's life and that clearly make him the better candidate for ESPECIALLY working people that this other person says he cares so much about.

[Caliman73]

19. I understand what you are saying but I also think that there does have to be a "vote for" component

not just a vote against component. Trump is uniquely bad in so many ways that those of us who pay attention, are often frustrated that the race is this close.

The problem is that a very large chunk of voters don't pay attention or possibly feel like it doesn't matter anyway.

People further to the left than the average Democrat have an idea that any party that defends Capitalism is also to blame for the situation that we are in. Most understand that the Republicans are far far worse, but there is still that sense that Democrats will only tinker around the edges of the profound systemic problems that face us.

There is an information problem in this country. Our media consists of three distinct segments. The mainstream, typically corporate owned media in which the ground level reporting staff and mid level editors are typically informed by a "liberal" ethos to report information and analyze evidence but whose owners have a very definite agenda, which is to make the most money they can, to protect their assets from taxation, and to not seriously challenge the power structures in the country. Then we have the conservative media, which since the 90's (80's for radio), has been pretty tightly coordinated to put the conservative viewpoint out into the media, which gives them out sized influence to their actual numbers in society. They also have the backing of very wealthy people who are investing into a system of government that will be used to protect their assets and eventually (Like Trump is attempting) will serve only their interests. Finally, there is a left leaning media, which is primarily local or marginally national outlets like Democracy Now, The Intercept, etc... who promote ideas further to the left, which seek to disrupt Capitalism (which both Democrats and Republicans support) and as such are agitators for change that is not popular with either party nor with the media.

Now the right wing is keen to use leftists both as a boogey man and as a weapon against the Center and Center Left Democratic structures. They want us to fight each other, and unfortunately too many on the farther left are eager to oblige.

Back to the point. Liberals tend to be thinkers, at least WAY more than conservatives/Republicans. We do not operate from a place of fear to the extent that conservatives do. I am definitely worried about what another Trump term will do to America. I however, am not voting against Trump. I am voting for Biden. I have gone to his website and seen his proposals and have heard him and Kamala speaking. However, not to sound arrogant (too late), I consider myself more informed than the average voter/American.

There are multiple components to a campaign, two of which are "Why you should not vote for my opponent" and the other equally important, "Why you should vote for me/us" Joe was not my first or second pick, but he has convinced me that he is the person for the job and picking Kamala solidified that he is listening and thinking about what we need.

I consider myself to be slightly further left than the average Democrat so my values align more with the ideas of redistributing wealth and creating a more equitable society that is not driven primarily by consumerism. I also like stuff and convenience so it is complicated.

That said, I do understand your frustration because these ideas of, "Joe needs to give us something to vote for" are being corrupted and used by people who are not engaging in a "good faith" discussion of their positions. They are trolling and inciting, and other stupid stuff. We should be able to have good discussions about what we as Democrats/Liberals/Progressives want and need without resorting to attacking each other.

[Eliot Rosewater]

20. Capitalism? If we dont have regulated capitalism with a healthy dose of democratic socialism

like we have now, what would you suggest?

I am for

a. nationalizing healthcare, access to the internet, access to cell towers, access to energy of any kind - all nationalized, on the basis that these things are necessary to survive in this day and age, probably be problematic for the cell towers

b. wealth tax, substantial one at that

And more, but I bet NONE of this happens anytime soon considering where we are now.

[Ms. Toad]

21. I know a lot more people who are voting against Trump

than are voting for Biden. In the weekly Biden group I participate in - Biden was not the first choice for any of us, and at leat 80% of us who started meeting weekly characterize ourselves as against Trump. We've been meeting for about 2 months - and have dwindled from around30 to around 6 - partly because voting against, rather than voting for - is less sustainable.

Now matter how much you hate it, it is a real issue.

[betsuni]

24. I'd like to know why so many Americans obsess about the personality of the president

and think it makes some kind of huge difference who the Democratic nominee is. If Democrats get majorities in Congress, lots of progressive things will pass and no Democratic president would veto them. No Democratic president would start unnecessary wars. Any Democratic president would act quickly in a pandemic or emergency situation. The president is representing the party. Most of the candidates in the primary would do a good job. Why do people think the president has a magic wand and can do anything they want? (Trump can, but that's another story.)

This constant dissatisfaction baffles me. How does anyone not know what Democrats stand for? Republicans know. Making it all about one person and worrying about what they might do or not do in the future is ridiculous when Republicans are destroying the country.

Also, people who bring up capitalism as a both-sides attack. Since 1980 Republicans have had enormous power and money, have done everything they can to turn the country into a banana republic, the cause of horrible inequality. Yet people are complaining that Joe Biden is vague or they aren't excited.