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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFuneral during a pandemic - your advice wanted.
My wife has arranged (with her brother and friends) an indoor memorial service for her mother, in a large hall. We are in a top 10 state for cases and deaths, and a lot of folk from around the worst hit counties. I would rather not reveal every detail to maintain anonymity.
So, we expect around 40 people and there's going to be a memorial service that is supposed to be socially distanced and we have asked that people wear masks, although some known anti-masker Trump supporters will be in attendance, at least one very outspoken against masks.
There's going to be a reception afterwards with food and drink. Obviously, people won't be able to wear masks at that point if they are eating. I feel very uncomfortable with this. My anxiety is through the roof about it. I know other people ignore common sense and that is why 200,000 people have died. How many bodies does it take to do the right thing?
What advice would you give me. I have already argued with my wife and achieved nothing. Should I just go with the flow? Should I insist that there shouldn't be a food and drink reception? If so, what can I say to my wife in a way that she will understand? Or what should I do? Thanks in advance for your advice.
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)Go with the flow.
Edit: The odds of getting infected are very small but the odds of anger and resentment coming from arguing against this are pretty good.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)for getting covid.
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)For something that meant a great deal to my wife.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)Kaleva
(36,259 posts)That's just my opinion. You'll have to make the choice. None of us here can do that for you.
consider_this
(2,203 posts)Ask why she feels the food part is meaningful. Maybe if you hear why, then you can come up with a safe meaningful alternative to that? Or maybe she will say it is not important and you can both skip that part?
Sorry you are dealing with this. I hope you get a solution that helps you feel safe and still ok with wife.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)in a year.
consider_this
(2,203 posts)Someone posted that here. Perhaps if you find that article and show it to her it might bring her some clarity on the gravity of the situation.
Vivienne235729
(3,377 posts)about a mask, he needs to not come to the funeral. Those are the rules and he should respectfully oblige. I wouldn't do the food and drinks either. But if you MUST do it, do it outside w good ventilation. So sorry for your loss.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Thats the problem here. His wife is being emotional and willing to kill others in her dead mothers honor
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I would not take my chances, especially with non-compliant Trumpers attending the funeral.
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)Here's a post of mine from Feb:
"Preparing for a possible Coronavirus pandemic
The hardest part is training myself to do things so that I do them automatically, without thought.
When I was a foster parent a few years ago, I trained myself to wash my hands vigorously for at least 20 seconds before rinsing off the soap and drying my hands. It's so ingrained in me now, i do it without having to remind myself.
The disinfecting of high touch areas in the home is new and it's becoming part of a daily routine. Like washing the dishes and putting food and fresh water for the dog.
Replacing the hand towels in the bathroom and the dish rag and dish towels in the kitchen daily is another thing I'm getting better at as time goes on.
Remembering to use the bottle of hand sanitizer that I keep in the car to use after I leave some premises is still hard to do as I don't go places very often. I now write it on my errands to do list when I do go to town to help remind me.
I used to wash all clothes in cold water only but I now wash everything in hot water except those items that can only be washed in cold water. So now I have to sort through the laundry and separate if need be instead of just shoving everything into the washer."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213020920
Another one from July:
"My COVID-19 routine
While Gov. Whitmer has moved Upper Michigan and much of northern lower Michigan to stage 5, I'm still continuing the routine I had when the state was shut down.
High touch items such as remotes, cordless phones, cell phones, door handles and such are disinfected daily.
Kitchen and bathroom counters are sanitized daily and disinfected every few days.
I wear a mask when out and about and use hand sanitizer when I leave a place such as a store and post office.
I go to the stores when they first open (8 a.m.) as fewer people are there at that time.
I take a Clorox wipe with me when I go into a store to wipe down the shopping cart handle.
Canned goods an non-perishable items I purchase at the store are kept in the basement in the grocery bags for at least 3 days before I put them away. Other items are wiped down with Clorox wipes or washed with soap and water before putting away.
When gassing up the car, I use the disposable glove that are available at the pump. Even then, I'll use hand sanitizer after getting back in the car.
Bath towels, hand towels, dish towels, wash cloths, dish cloths are replaced daily with clean ones that have been washed and dried on the sanitize cycles of the washer and dryer.
I do my best to maintain social distancing when out and about.
I'm not under the illusion that I or my wife won't get infected but I'm doing what I can to reduce the chance."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213716936
malaise
(268,724 posts)Doodley
(9,048 posts)risk and quite a few elderly folk.
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)and they did not attend the reception held afterwards. In the hallway of the hall where the reception was held, I put boxes of masks and bottles of hand sanitizer for those who wished to use them.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)not wearing masks? In what Universe?
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)She passed away last winter but we waited till June for the service. Executive Order 2020-115 limited the number of people allowed in the reception hall to 35.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)Is that the logic here?
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)LisaL
(44,972 posts)at any other event? Why do we have nearly 200,000 dead people and millions infected?
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Still not a good idea to drive that fast in a blizzard, though you wont get pulled over for it
consider_this
(2,203 posts)odds are not good in the described situation.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)Some could die as a result.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)and see the family as things get better. I definitely wouldnt argue with my wife or family. I might make myself scarce at gatherings.
For me, I dont want a funeral. Although if circumstances allow me to contribute to an obituary, Id sure add Vote Blue and trump sucks.
Kaleva
(36,259 posts)I was with my wife as I held her hand while she held her mother's hand and she breathed her last. There was no way I would try to stop the memorial service held for her mother this past June.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)got cancer, and lasted about a year. Whatever was necessary for either, was OK with me. CV19 is different, but going with flow is likely best. But Im OK with OP being concerned too.
Sorry about your MIL.
elleng
(130,768 posts)Sorry you're going through this.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)Forgo the food. Step out often enough and keep the socializing minimal. That would be a tough one for me. Go to a funeral only to end up having more funerals as a result. I don't know.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)you don't mingle to meet old friends and family. And a CDC report yesterday said adults who go to restaurants have twice the risk of getting covid.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)plane and around a bunch of people in one of the highest covid states with a bunch of people that think it is a hoax. That would be a tough one. I am not isolating all these months for nothing.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)one thing, but I would not go to the reception. It's actually going to be kind of tricky if your wife goes and contracts the virus and brings it back to you. I suppose it depends upon how healthy you both are and what kind of chances you want to take with the survival odds.
LoveMyCali
(2,015 posts)to set up tables outside for the reception?
Doodley
(9,048 posts)roamer65
(36,744 posts)It is simply too dangerous to have that many in a closed space right now.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)Laffy Kat
(16,373 posts)The thing is, even if you don't go, you can still become infected by your wife who is going. It's a tough one. I guess I'd stay for the service, masked and distanced, then leave before the reception. That way, you'd still be showing your support but not putting yourself in as much danger. I wonder why the service can not wait until it's safer. I don't get it.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)consider_this
(2,203 posts)if they are anti maskers, let them have their own memorial and be responsible for the consequences. Your wife can do a proper one later when things are safe. that is what we decided for my mother.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)consider_this
(2,203 posts)let it be the bro and friend's event.
one question - how does she not understand the basics of proper guidelines during the pandemic? you seem to get it.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)consider_this
(2,203 posts)Kali
(55,004 posts)and wash your hands. shower and change clothes when you get home.
the food and drink thing seems a little foolish in the present circumstances, maybe you can slip away for part or most of that?
Doodley
(9,048 posts)consider_this
(2,203 posts)It is tragic enough losing your mother, why would we want to risk anyone else we love or care about being put at risk - that includes you and me. Can we postpose the live memorial to a later date when it can be done safely? If not, can we forgo the food and ask people out of respect to you and your mother, to only come to the memorial if they plan to properly wear a mask.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)he doesn't care if his supporters get it. It's no different. Well, anyway, turned into a yelling match. All is calm now.
consider_this
(2,203 posts)this begs the question to her - does she think you want to choose to die? this question is probably too harsh for the occasion and i hesitated to write it, but I still do not understand - does she really not realize this puts herself and you at risk? it seems like she really doesn't get the actual facts. not sure what you can do in this case.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)on the Internet. I said I didn't even reveal what state we live in. I don't think she has the capacity to even try to understand why I am stressed about this.
consider_this
(2,203 posts)help her get what she needs and still keep her and yourself physically safe.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)and it's terrible to have to lose a loved one this year when mourning is even harder than usual. But she... well, you probably shouldn't say it, but her "friends" who want 40 people to mingle and eat and drink and hug and kiss and weep inside a room don't seem to care very about her health.
There was a wedding last month that accounted for 80 infections and 1 death,and many had not attended the wedding.
I'm sorry this is happening. Can you talk to the funeral director about mitigation? They must have protocols.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)but people that got it from someone at the wedding.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)too. I am a bit odd in not even caring about a funeral. I do not want my boys to spend the money on it. But now, I would not want people to gather and get each other sick.
Ms. Toad
(34,003 posts)provided that there is a space where you can be socially distanced, but that you will not go to an indoor reception at which food and drink are served (unless the food is served and consumed while seated at bubbled tables that are separated by at least 6' - and that is still very risky.)
AND - that if she chooses attends the reception she needs to stay in a hotel/tent/separate house/room for 14 days.
Been there done that with my spouse, who insisted on attending a wedding shower for a niece. Good thing I have a recliner that is comfy for sleeping - since I've just completed my second 14-day stint. Once due to her exposure at the shower; once due to mine (fellow teacher who tested positive - no direct exposure; + 6 students who had enough symptoms to be sent home for 10-days each).
Doodley
(9,048 posts)stay in any budget hotel either.
Ms. Toad
(34,003 posts)sheshe2
(83,667 posts)My mother is a devote Episcopalian. Her church stopped all church services months ago. They stopped coming to give mom communion at home, for her safety and theirs. My mom and her church understands the need to not resume services. I question why your wife's church thinks this is a good idea.
I think it is the wrong thing to do, that is just my opinion.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)into it by her anti-masker brother who never helped take care of my mother-in-law when she was alive. Some people just want some glory now she has gone.
sheshe2
(83,667 posts)Umm, not sure what to say. I would bow out, you and your wife can honor her life on your own at a later date. I am sure your MIL would not wish you to put your life on the line.
If her own son did not care enough to help her in need then he has no say what happens now. I know up front and personal the stress, fatigue and huge toll taking care of a loved one takes. It ages you.
Take care of yourself Doodley.
I am so sorry for your loss.
Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)I'm not sure how well that will go over.
People weren't even able to have wakes when this first happened. You are lucky in some perverse way that you can do anything. Everyone has to make their own decisions. They know the risks.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)renate
(13,776 posts)If you have to go, you should take whatever precautions you can.
Im so sorry that the STUPID SELFISH anti-maskers are making a painful situation even worse. Its just unreal the stress and suffering their ignorance is causing.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)cry baby
(6,682 posts)her when its safe.
My Mom died in late March. Had to have a cremation because I cant even take her to her to the state where shell be buried with my Dad because of covid. It has been hard but I would feel worse if someone was exposed and got sick because of a decision I made to go ahead.
If your wife doesnt feel like she can stand up to the anti mask family members, then you and your wife stay apart from those people and try to encourage distancing.
You all must be having such hard discussions. Im sorry for your loss at such a terrible time for grieving.
JI7
(89,241 posts)mask.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)you can't eat in a mask. So restaurant could require you to show up in a mask, but then obviously you can take it off to eat. So it's a dog and pony show. If you are showing up in a mask but is then allowed to take it off, what good does it do exactly? It's not magic and it can't protect you when it's off.
consider_this
(2,203 posts)I would not be ok with even the hall of 40 people thing, even with masks. It is a closed space. But I will be the first to admit I have been one of the most stringent in my prevention protocols.
Response to consider_this (Reply #54)
JI7 This message was self-deleted by its author.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)Which is the worse.
consider_this
(2,203 posts)We had a very very very small funeral, with masks. I found it more upsetting than comforting. WHY?
Because here is a situation where you normally want to exchange hugs, and other close contact for comfort - and maybe some joy in reuniting with relatives/friends from a long distance that you have not seen for a while. Trying to maintain the proper distance made it NOT comforting for me, and only anxiety ridden and completely weird.
Ask your wife to think about how it might be for her. Maybe it will be ok for her, but it is worth thinking about in advance if she thinks keeping 6 ft distance of people in that situation is actually going to be any comfort to her.
JI7
(89,241 posts)If anything happens to any of them at least you know you warned them and did what you could.
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)for your loss and the postition you find yourself in. I lost my mom in May. My siblings and I opted for a graveside memorial with no dinner afterwards. Those were early days, and we didn't want to be in the local news for causing an outbreak. I still am not sure it was the right decision. But do what you feel comfortable with. Good Luck.
qwlauren35
(6,145 posts)You can't wear masks while eating. It's a reality.
I think what you can do is space tables, encourage people to eat only with family that they live with, and sit aside a mask only mingling area. If there will be a buffet, have caterers (or dedicated individuals) serve it instead of self serve, and have one or two people go through at a time. Try to encourage people not to hug and kiss, and if they have to touch hands, use sanitizer.
Get everyone on board with this, and it will be safer.
Restaurants are open. Visit a few and see how they are doing it.
I went to a funeral a few months ago. There wasn't a lot of social distancing, but we had masks. Someone I cared about was deeply grieving. I had to go.
I should check on her now.
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)You have spoken your mind. Now you choose to go or not. Now you choose to quarantine from you wife after or not. That's about all the power you have on this one.
My heart goes out to your wife and your family.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)meadowlander
(4,388 posts)and do everything outside?
It's crazy to do a buffet style meal in the current environment.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)She won't let me get involved, as other people have planned it. There will be a lot of sanitizer.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)Covid is mostly transmitted through particles floating into your nose, and sanitizer won't do anything to stop that.
Dorian Gray
(13,479 posts)We just experienced this. An aunt passed away two weeks ago, and the wake, funeral and repast were over the labor day weekend.
The wake was in a funeral home. There was a four hour period to attend. We went for the first hour and a half, and left when it started crowding up. Most people were compliant with the masks. I did feel a little nervous here. Some cousins are huggers. Was more worried about my 81 year old father hugging relatives/shaking hands. But we got through it all.
The next morning was the funeral service in a church. My first visit to a church since CV. My father and I sat in our own pew. two rows in front and back of us were all blocked off, according to NY/NJ guidelines. I felt safe here. (I did not receive communion, but the majority in house did. The priest used hand sanitizer to start, did not give into mouths, avoided direct contact with people. It seemed relatively safe and thoughtful, but I'm not there yet.)
Following that was the repast. Outdoor tent at a local restaurant. It felt like a celebration. We were outside. I maintained distance but things got a little sloppy here with some alcohol involved.
I think it's tough to mourn properly. You can do the best job of it that you can, allow yourself the time to mourn.
I would ask people to wear masks and let them know that at the request of the family, masks are to be worn to protect the vulnerable who are mourning the loss of their beloved family members. If someone denies that request, I wouldn't feel bad asking him/her to leave.
Good luck in this. It's a stressful time to say goodbye.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)but I am up against resistance.
Dorian Gray
(13,479 posts)when everybody is grieving. Most likely you'll be safe, but do what you feel comfortable with. All rules are being pushed right now.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)your issue.
I have lost two uncles this year, one after a long bout with cancer and one who died in his sleep.
My mother took them very hard, but especially the sudden death.
We had a long discussion about personal risk and responsibilities. She has said shes avoiding indoor dining and other crowded indoor spaces, but she refuses to spend any more days of her life locked away from her grandkids and her friends.
I cant fault her. I really cant.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)to be isolated.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)"I'm going to associate with this small group of people who I know are being careful themselves, and that way, we can limit the risk we are posing to each other."
I get out-- always masked- to stores that seem to be careful, and meet one friend masked and socially distant, and my hubster and son. You can't limit the risk to zero, but we can get it down to a point where the masks and distancing are most of the protection we need.
Next year... I keep hoping things will be better.
malaise
(268,724 posts)We were allowed fifty people at her funeral and there were two people in each row of seats
The repast was outdoors. Is there any way you can have the reception outside?
Doodley
(9,048 posts)malaise
(268,724 posts)got Covid-19.
MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)Graveside service, everyone told to bring their own lawn chair and socially distance, everyone asked to mask up (and provided hand-sewn masks as memento/directive). No food; which is a big departure from the norm.
Service was 45 minutes, only sang first verse of three hymns (acapella).
It was different, but meaningful none the less.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)moving as one with all the bells and whistles.
boston bean
(36,219 posts)My mother died in April. Me my sisters and husband. No more than 10 people were allowed at the funeral home.
We planned a service at the graveside outdoors with a procession from the funeral parlor.
That is how we got to say goodbye to the most important in my life.
She deserved so much more.
I am pissed that even having anything indoors in the age of the pandemic is even being considered.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)was unable to attend my own mother's funeral, as I was in a different continent. I know though that she knew how much I loved her and knew how much she loved me.
boston bean
(36,219 posts)Many people had nothing but a freezer truck and burial in a paupers grave.
I am sorry, but your wife needs to change her mind.
LuckyCharms
(17,414 posts)I hesitate to give advice on things like this, but I would tell you the things I would consider.
1) Were you consulted about how the arrangements were going to be handled? Were you part of the decision to have an indoor service? If not, why not?
2) Both you and your wife are going through a rough time right now. So are her brothers. When people are grieving, they sometimes make irrational decisions.
3) There could have been a choice to have the service outside. That route was not taken. Perhaps that choice should be reexamined.
4) You have a valid concern about being around people eating at a reception.
5) You have a valid concern about some anti-maskers being in attendance. These people tend to be careless in the way they wear their masks, if they even wear one at all.
6) What is the risk level for you and your wife?
7) You only get one life, and sometimes you have to take charge and make things happen the right and safe way.
Good luck, and my condolences for your loss.
Doodley
(9,048 posts)day of our lives were about taking care and worrying about her, as well as getting through a lot of our own money, because she had nothing apart from SS check. We had already decided to delay a memorial until it was safe, but then she got all this pressure from a couple of anti-maskers, including her brother, who never once offered to take any responsibility for his mother's care. She just went with the flow, and I wasn't involved. I gave my blessing in advance for her to choose, respecting her choice, even though I am semi-paranoid covid-phobic. I was certainly prepared to compromise for a well-managed socially distanced, masked event, but a reception was never part of the equation.
LuckyCharms
(17,414 posts)I've been in a similar situation.
Long term caretaker, spending my own money, zero help from siblings.
You and your wife, in fulfilling the duties that you have, have earned the right to not take anyone else's shit.
You and your wife did the work, you love her, you need to protect both of you, and you don't need to listen to ANYONE who had no skin in the entire situation.
Your anxiety is trying to tell you something. Be strong, but be gentle with your wife. You have no allegiance to anyone else but her. Convince your wife, gently, that there needs to be a change of plans, and tell everyone else to back off.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)Stay far away from unmasked folks, and ask your wife to do the same, hard as that might be. You should both avoid hugs.
It's almost impossible to convince close relatives not to attend a funeral.
I'm very sorry for your family's loss.
Beringia
(4,316 posts)You shouldn't take risks and end up getting the virus. It is emblematic to me how people can be so irrational, because it is so stark during this pandemic.
I think of all the strict rules there is for a surgeon for instance in how they perform surgery in order to get the best outcome. Do you think there would be any question how a surgeon would make this decision. Or how about a biological laboratory, would the lab techs be having discussions on what safety methods to use.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)I live in Maine, which has only .5% positivity rate, which is one of the lowest in the country. There was a wedding in rural Maine that resulted in 160+ cases and 5 deaths so far. It shows you that one single indoor event can have a big impact and being in state with a low case count doesn't mean you are safe. This also has affected a few school districts in that they have had to start 100% online instead of in person half time/online half time as originally planned. I don't know whose wedding that was, that I'm sure the people that know them have given them tons of shit for it.
https://wgme.com/news/coronavirus/5-deaths-now-linked-to-millinocket-area-wedding-including-4-at-madison-nursing-home
Is it possible to have the event outdoors?