This is going to get a lot of blow back, but it needs to be said!
The comments from Bernie this past weekend are unnecessary and will start an internal fire among the Democrats! I get that Bernie wants more from Biden on some issues, but to tell Biden he wont win if he doesnt talk about this and that & his needs to campaign with AOC and other young Democrats, isnt helping! It is Bidens campaign and he is going to it the best way that fits for campaign! If you want to help? Stop trying to tear the party in half! There is one objective and that is to defeat Trump and his goons! That is it plain and simple!
What is with Bernie?
I will never forget at the 2016 DNC how he sat there red faced and arms folded like a petulant child as Hillary was nominated. It is a pose that we have seen many times since, in Trump.
I do not get his appeal...never have.
if these young voters don't get that beating trump is the focus, I can't help them. If they haven't suffered enough, I can't help them. If they don't see what a great team Biden/Harris is I really can't help them.
That's what y'all aren't seeing. These kids are buried in student debt. The globe is on fire and health care is still a privilege. Kids look at this stuff and wonder who's going to fight for them. This stuff didn't just happen; these have been issues for years.
Go ahead and kill the messenger. If you're (group "you" ) are smarter than the repukes though, you'll consider their criticisms. Maybe stop chastizing anyone who isn't in strict lockstep with your views and look at the issues from their perspective. It can't hurt.
but repubs ran it all. repubs in charge is the problem. If they can't understand that why not? Beating trump and as many repubs as possible is the main goal. Otherwise all of the other goals will not be taken up.
and he knows he isn't getting any younger. His window for personal direct influence of the Democratic party and the country as a whole is closing.
The party leadership's reluctance to go all-in with his ideas, and Biden's strong poll numbers with what is a moderate platform with a little progressive seasoning, has to be extremely frustrating for him.
I might not appreciate his timing on this, and what he said does not appear to be true, but I understand where this is coming from.
Fight for Fifteen minimum wage movement has been around since 2012, Medicare for All for decades, Green New Deal was a 2007 Thomas Friedman idea that Barack Obama ran on in 2008 -- none of the issues are "his."
Staying a third party champion only takes votes away from Democrats and lets Republicans be elected. Republicans have only moved this country more and more right, farther and farther away from the issues Sanders claims to espouse.
While the Democratic Party of today may not be as far left as Sanders would like, it is far closer to his ideals than Republicans ever would be. If he had stayed in the Democratic Party he could have kept it farther left than it is now. By splintering the ultra left out of the Democratic Party, not only has he weakened the party that could have gotten his goals in place, he has forced the party as a whole to a more centrist stance.
Aside from all of that, Sen. Sanders has not proven himself to be the most astute campaigner. His timing on national politics is poor and his followers tend to alienate many who might otherwise want the same things.
I like many of the things Bernie Sanders supports - I just do not like the man himself. To me, his followers seem as dangerous and irrational as some of the Trump supporters - and he does nothing to try to lead them back to a more rational point of view.
...member of it might have helped.
One doesn't show one's hand in a campaign, or talk about it publicly.
Those who know how to win a campaign know that.
a surfeit of experience -- and yet very little winning.
----- -- -- -----
But it is not going help at this point of the game! It will be more harmful to the object of winning the presidency back!
Here at du . If he's gonna swing at the dems i dont know why dems cant swing back
I like Bernie, but I dont think this is the time for him to be saying these things.
That said, this is like the sixth or seventh thread Ive seen about this. Blowback indeed.
Having a go at Bernie is practically the national sport here.
No shit. It's as pathetic as they say Bernie is. Pot. Kettle.
They need to just leave it alone. Biden and Harris are doing fine. Bernie's rallying the millennials. Nobody's being left out. That's a good thing.
In fact, he is doing the exact opposite. He is intentionally working to turn millenials against the Biden/Harris ticket.
Why does it always have to be that Bernie's working against the party.
Why doesn't it occur to anyone that he's trying to bring people back to the fold who aren't planning to vote for our candidate because they don't see enough in our platform to give them confidence that anything will change in their favor? They've grown up and come of age in a time when college costs have tripled and buried them in debt. Health care has been and remains a huge expense for many, with many left out. Their world is on fire, literally, and didn't get there overnight.
These and many more issues are of utmost importance to them. Bernie is suggesting ways to bring them back to the fold. He's helping us, not hurting us.
Why is that concept so disagreeable to many DUers? Have we become as close-minded as the party we all abhor?
I too do not understand why Democrats, especially since most ALL seem to claim they are progressive, and laud the "most progressive platform ever" as being a good thing, get mad when Sanders simply reminds Biden and the campaign to not lose site of not wanting to marginalize and ignore progressive values and appealing to progressive voters who may not be excited yet about voting for yet another establishment Democratic candidate.
And simply bringing it up at all, either by Sanders, or anyone on this board for that matter, is paramount to treason.
So many refuse to understand that Sanders WANTS Joe to win, (even though he'd rather have been the candidate) and he doesn't want Joe to make a similar mistake as last time in assuming you don't need to cater to progressive issues, and just give them vague promises, and still win handily.
Another thing some do in here is confuse a poster being concerned with appealing to enough young and new and progressive voters with thinking YOU as a poster are threatening to NOT vote blue and alert. Look out for that, just a little warning.
For instance the majority of Americans and 80% of Democrats want M4A. Maybe the loud frightened 20% should not be the ones to rock that boat. Just saying.
by holding the hand of some sad little "progressive" -- is countered by five lost to seniors, union guys, military, small business owners -- on and on. And the fact that progressives are still trying to sell their "platform" as a winner with the general public -- says a lot about why people are not real anxious for Biden to be taking tips on campaigning from Sanders. (and kinda' wishing that Sanders would, publicly at least -- put a damned sock in it!)
And -- by the way -- the campaign IS talking about AGW, ACA, student debt, DACA, min wage, sustainable energy -- and a good many others that the "young vote" claim are critical to them.
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Response to dansolo (Reply #111)
"Apathy and anti-establishment helplessness?!" That's completely false, and this kind of crap is really pissing me off. My two kids, nineteen and twenty years old, respectively, have been able to understand exactly what is wrong with the center right Democratic party-they have educated themselves on their own, particularly regarding the inequities of late stage capitalism. Too many comments here are demeaning and snide regarding Sanders and those who have or still support him.
My children, like so many others, have realized that right-wing leaning, corporate owned Democrats will never be able to represent their interests. STILL, they're both voting for Biden with the hope that Biden will actually listen to the concerns of progressive Democrats if he wins. They understand that trump is a fascist hell bent on destroying this country and there most likely won't be another chance after this election.
It's completely counter productive to malign Sanders, and it's past time to listen to the concerns of young people. They are the future whether conservative Democrats like it or not, and they will have to cope with the fallout from all of the greed and selfishness of previous generations. It's past time for older Democrats to wake up and stop alienating progressive young voters.
Are you sure you're on the right discussion board?
Mention anything having to do with Sanders, and there's immediately a total pile on. Usually the same dozen or two posters every time. But the threads become completely unreadable, and there's nothing to be gleaned from 80% of the posts in them. Just the other day I saw not one, but two different posts intimating that Sanders is a Russian agent.
Just . . . LOL.
AOC gets it, too. But not as much. Basically, any figure on the Left that says anything even mildly critical of party policy or approach gets the, "Troll, Russian Agent, right-wing plant!" treatment. Also, no Democratic incumbent should be primaried . . . unless it's Sanders, AOC, or anyone that identifies as a democratic socialist. Then we can support right-wingers to get them.
Whatever happened four years age is immaterial. I'm merely observing how the site behaves now. My understanding is the site veers older and more conservative, which is why more leftish policies and public figures get a lot of blowback. In political spaces full of Millennials, for example, this stuff doesn't really happen.
I usually just read a few posts in and move on. Not worth the bother. I posted in this one because I'm laughing at the idea that being anti-Sanders on this site is going to earn anyone any kind of blowback. Post any Sanders thread at random, and lean back to watch the hate pour in. It's like saying, "Unpopular opinion, but Trump is kind of an asshole. Don't flame me!"
Like, surrously though.
We have a trash function. If those threads bother you can block them.
I love seeing the left and progressive mentioned. Sanders ranks 10th most progressive in the Senate. Here is the list:
My understanding is the site veers older and more conservative, which is why more leftish policies and public figures get a lot of blowback.
My Senators Markey and Warren rank #1 And 4. Harris is #5. Perhaps Sanders, who came in 10th should be looking left. I don't see any of them being trashed for being lefties.
Sad you believe participants on this site are just old people and conservative. What an insult to all of us that have been here for years figghting to right the wrongs.
We don't have much to discuss. I said older and more conservative. Someone did an age poll a little while back. And more conservative, because there's a definite anti-Left bend to a lot of commentary here. Bring up any topic, from college loan relief to universal healthcare, and things get murky, and there are people who go, "Millennials just want free stuff!" Seen it so many times.
People who say such things are definitely out of touch with how America functions now. But I see it commonly enough.
I'm aware of Senate voting records. I'm talking about policies pushed. They're different things.
Nope. You did not see that on DU.
Progressive policy actually gets little real "blowback" on this site. Some "progressive" figures -- might encounter a little more heat from time to time -- but the reasons for that are almost always not "policy." For instance, it is undeniably true that Senator Sander's actions in the 2016 campaign (and convention) alienated a lot of Democrats. Also true that the soar taste lingers in some mouths. But those same voters will tell you that it is not Sander's positions -- but his actions that have led to their distaste.
A lot of good people were driven out. They are still mocked and ridiculed incessantly for the last 4 years.
Bernie would be perfectly fine if he didn't say our nominees in the last two elections were only "I'm not Trump" -- and do the both-sides thing. It's not true.
What useful purpose does it serve? His "advice" was unsolicited and inappropriate. Biden's campaign and the party had ALREADY given the Sanders campaign every reasonable consideration and accommodation. Negotiations and compromises were made in good faith. Bernie already participated. That part is OVER now. OVER! Biden doesn't need any former rivals "advising" him how to run his campaign.
This is just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.
And no, valid criticism of Bernie is not automatically a "rant," despite what many say.
Last edited Tue Sep 15, 2020, 07:09 PM - Edit history (1)
be held accountable. Bull.
He's hoping Biden loses so he can say "I told you so. It should have been me" which is a crock.
... predict the worst, encourage the worst, stifle enthusiasm, promote negativity, then claim "I told you so" in the end.
"If you can write a best-selling book, you can be a millionaire, too."
creating division by going on TV and attacking the Biden/Harris campaign is not helpful. Almost 200,000 people are dead. I don't give a damn about what Sander's thinks.
Honestly, it serves no good purpose at all for anyone to behave this way.
If I reported the same and then suggested that Bernie was spot on it definitely would. Just say'n...
get more young voters. First of all every election we depend on young voters that don't vote. Second it will turn off many older voters like myself. Bernie is not running he should let Biden run his campaign.
for the Biden campaign to pull in young voters without turning off older or more moderate voters. Many independents and "never Trumpers" are ready to vote for Joe, but could be turned off by Bernie's approach. Meanwhile, this is Joe's campaign and he has surrounded himself with the best and the brightest. Bernie shouldn't try to run someone else's campaign from the outside. Bernie ran two impressive, if not successful campaigns, it is time he sits back and lets the nominee do things his way.
unreliable voters? We will beat Trump, and the left should take care as they will have less influence if it becomes necessary to move to the middle in order to win elections. Neither Sanders nor AOC will help us in Florida or the Mid West or the South. Their presence would not help us win Senate seats in Maine, Arizona, Georgia, Montana, Michigan and other moderate states which is the only way we win back the Senate or the presidency.
... correct, but I don't know. One think Biden needs is to be seen as more "moderate" - that's how to get those iffy voters. So, Bernie saying this will help Biden/Harris by putting distance between them and the anarchist/communists. Crooked Donald wants to run against left-wing anarchists. Sure, Biden can appear with AOC at some point - but any regular "running" with her would be a disaster, in my opinion. I am not sure what Bernie is trying to do... he's been confusing, with the past few elections. With Michael Moore, I see speaking to the left and trying to link them with Obama-Hillary-Biden. Not sure with Bernie... hopefully, these comments are him trying to do some good, overall, and elect Biden/Harris. He should rethink, imo...
Bernie is still evidently under the impression that Americans carefully study the two party platforms and decide the Democratic one isn't progressive enough so they won't vote or vote for Republicans, that only slogans such as Medicare for All and Green New Deal will get people (especially young people) to the polls. This isn't true. Last Democratic platform was the most progressive in history and this year's is too. He's on TV all the time and can explain Biden's policies.
like abortion and guns pushed by the right-wing media bubble into voting for them. That's why the both-sides-Democrats-aren't-progressive thing is so stupid.
The only time in 2016 that I saw the two platforms side by side was the day after the election.
Ask a 100 voters what the party platform is and you'll get 99 "I don't know"s.
policies, the American people will flock to vote for that true progressive. He has said many times that the majority of Americans agree with his policies but billionaires, wealthy donors and corporations bribe Democrats and the DNC to do everything they can to stop progressive ideas and ignore the working and middle classes: "The point that I make over and over ... is the ideas that I talk about are ideas that the American people want. They don't get it because you've got a Congress indebted to the wealthy campaign contributors."
"I think that what Trump was able to do was pick up on the failures of the Democratic Party that did not talk about the fact that hard working decent people saw their jobs going to Mexico or China ... And what we're trying to do is reform the Democratic Party, make it a party of working people, make it a party of young people."
Many of his most ardent supporters think his Medicare for All plan is the only universal health care idea because he says things like, "Four years ago, when we said that health care is a human right, we were told that it was a radical idea that the American people wouldn't accept." Some of them cannot accept that the ACA with a public option and younger Medicare eligibility is a perfectly good way to achieve universal health care. It wasn't Big Pharma bribing everyone that prevented health care reform, it was Democrats not having enough votes because they didn't have large majorities in the legislature and having zero Republican votes.
the Bernie Bros was started by a Russian in the last election to divide Dems, here we go again.
Does anyone think a thread like this with 1,000 responses will help Joe?
My neighbors asked me this question...dont we Americans have any other YOUNGER candidates? It caught me off guard because I fumbled in my response. Well, yes, but they didnt get the votes.
You see, we live in Switzerland where there is a true democracy here with many parties, many platforms and young participants. They rewrote their constitution a few years back because the one written 800 hundred years ago wasnt valid anymore. Makes me think maybe this would be helpful for the US.
...but anything written 800 years ago really should be re worked..
I honestly dont know but am curious.
I think there are 6 parties, 3 left leaning and 3 right leaning.
They are just getting back to attending the building since March.
The President of each party runs the country for one year.
Referendums are started by all citizens and then everyone votes.
Im still learning about their methods so forgive my ignorance.
They didnt let women vote until 1972 so they are just about 30-40 years behind us.
But their liberal parties are further left than ours and their right-wing are not quite Nazis but they are definitely racists. They have a referendum coming in two weeks and want to limit immigration of foreigners. You know, the dark skinned ones from Muslim countries and Africa.
It would strongly favor Alec, the Koch's and the Mercers. They want a rewrite, it's what puts the lie to the notion that they are "conservatives." They want to destroy the current order, not fix the problems within it. So any constitutional convention run today would come out with an electoral college weighted to favor easily dominated states, a unitary executive with enormous power, and a shadow legislative body. I think a supreme court would be irrelevant because the executive would make the choices and remove the members they dislike if they ever appeared.
What everyone fails to remember is that at least in theory our process is supposed to provide that choice of input over a larger group of candidates. As less popular ones drop out their supporters gravitate to people who better represent their views. Eventually we're supposed to have a compromise candidate, the one who makes the largest number of people the least unhappy. So our elections have always been a choice of the lesser of two evils. It's time for Americans to grow up and recognize the system for how it actually works instead of how we'd like it to work.
My conclusion is that Bernie Sanders should have this discussion in private with Joe Biden, there is almost certainly some truth in it. It doesn't need to be public, or if it is public it should be managed as it's own psyop against the GOP. My complaint for years has been that the compromise candidate is almost certainly going to be a more "centrist" politician. They need to remember that they are the compromise candidate of an alliance, and mistreating your alliance partners will cost you allies. We cannot afford that behavior from the center or the left.
I agree with you about your assessment of the compromise candidate. Good thoughts, thanks.
Hubs & I were saying the same & as former Bernie supporters, we think ....
He should STFU.
He is becoming a cult figure more concerned with Bernie than with any policies or the Party. He, after all, is an Independent. He does not speak for the Party.
i dont get the excited interest in this person. His message is nothing new..
That grassroots organizing was new, small donations were new, Democrats were corrupted by wealthy donors and Wall Street.
That the Fight for Fifteen minimum wage movement that started in 2012 and spread around the country was his idea: "And many of the ideas I brought forth, $15 an hour minimum wage. 'Hey, Bernie, you're crazy. That's too extreme.'"
That nobody else was concerned about student debt: "Dealing with student debt. 'Oh, Bernie, that can't get done.'"
That nobody else was concerned about climate change, claiming that in a debate he was asked about the major national security crisis we face: "I said it is climate change. And people kind of laughed." Never happened.
That nobody else wants universal health care: "Health care as a human right. 'Oh, Bernie, that's not -- that's un-American. Nobody in American believes that.'"
Vermont tried a Medicare for All policy and couldn't make it work. The Green New Deal is a resolution. I don't know what he's talking about most of the time.
...paying lip service to those ideals.
His sincerity is often judged by the fact that he was unashamed of being farther to the left of other Democrats or unabashedly being in favor of progressive values before more mainstream Democrats felt comfortable with public support of progressive values - for example, Bernie crushing Duke Cunningham (criminal) for his rant against homos in the military from the 1990s - this was not a popular position to publicly espouse below:
What Bernie does is wait until other candidates come out with policies and then go to the left of that.
So all these years, decades, marching in the same marches as MLK. Fighting for equal rights and worker rights has been a long long acting job? He's actually just a cold calculating politician who "waits" until he hears someone else in the party put forward a policy, and he simply moves slightly left of that? Easy peasy.
Are you objecting to that message, or to the messenger?
win a race. Also, Trump would love to move the race to the economy as he is still doing better on this issue than any other. This election is a referendum on Trump. Are you better today than four years ago is the question,we must ask.
Are you implying there is an abject lack of focus on these topics by Biden? If so, what is the objective standard on which you base the measure?
The media minutes are being consumed by BLM, protests, riots, Antifa, defund the police, etc., so other messaging by Biden and other top Dems is being stepped on.
And who are these "top Dems"?
...im still pissed about 2016...
a card-carrying member of the "radical left," BLM and Antifa.
(When my generation became old enough to vote, we didn't need to be wooed, we were eager to vote. So-called "young voters" need to become more politically literate; our two-party system doesn't reward such petulance.)
to criticize the leader in public ie., if you want to win.
I mean one with actual details and work on getting support. Talk to experts and get advice on what would work.
Something more than a slogan .
and take their direction. He then can privately make suggestions internally instead of making divisive statements in public as if he was still campaigning on his own.
Is a full-throated cry of
'GET OUT AND VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN! THE BEST DAMN PRESIDENT WE CAN GET!'
And not one fucking thing more.
Did this last time. He became the future voice of Mad King Poopy Pants. Wait a few days and you'll see praise from Mad King Poopy Pants on how the Independent Senator from Vermont should have been the candidate. And they say Mad King Poopy Pants is a useful tool. Right.
It seems to me like he just thinks it'll help if Biden plays up his progressive economic agenda. This seems pretty normal to me. I don't know, though.
But my understanding is that these were statements made by Sanders in private conversation, which were subsequently leaked.
If you think about it, everything is leaked now days? Bernie should have conveyed his message in a phone call to Biden rather than out loud!
Since it is entirely unlikely that Sanders made these utterances to a Republican (or Russian op) -- then the "leak" came either from his camp, or someone to whom he was indiscreetly flapping his gums. And Senator Sanders has been playing this game long enough to be fully aware of how this things work. In either case -- source, Sanders -- responsibility, Sanders.
...and this sort of tempest-in-a-teapot serves their purpose well.
No one should be shocked or surprised if Sanders thinks Biden ought to run more to the left. Indeed, I'd be shocked and surprised if he didn't think so.
Eyes on the prize, people. Eyes on the prize.
We HAVE to get rid of. A candidate, no matter who it is/was has an obligation to our society to do the absolute. If Bernie has insight that would help then he should be consulted with in person. Don't make him have to do it outside the family.
We can count on the republicans to turn every sniff of progressivism into a "head for the hills, the commies are coming to steal our freeeeeeedoms and riiiiiiights" fear fest, trying to squeeze one more mile out of the old heap. They're going to do that because, with the aid of a bothsiderist media, they're already doing that. And we may just profit from that by attacking full frontal and head on, calling out their hypocrisy (the protect corporate socialism "good", protect socialist programs "bad" thing they do). That may turn a few heads because, you see, there are a lot of people who know that the current of trajectory, harvesting the fruits of "conservatism", the fruits of republican kleptocracy is not going to work for them now or in their future. I've seen no such response from Biden's people yet. It's like they're afraid to brag strong and proud about how progressivism can improve people's lives. Why not lead with how "Obamacare, as incomplete as it is, is still the best thing since sliced bread? and if you don't think it is, just watch what you'll lose if republicans have their way". Following with how "we can multi-task, reduce the national debt, secure the nation, overcome covid, strengthen Obamacare and legitimize the tax code all at once". And THAT, all while the past and current crooks in office are prosecuted for their past and current crimes. Not a single lie told. Not a single promise that would require backwalking. Only the accurate and true promise of PROGRESS.
If that's NOT the approach we are comfortably willing to take, we may well find Joe Biden walking in the woods, talking to himself, next November because, for reasons I still don't understand, Hillary was NOT comfortable with such a path in 2016. Are there bad apples in this barrel we're in? Probably, but as cantankerous and single minded as he is, I don't think Bernie's one of them.
themselves out in the public. Time to stop telling Biden/ Harris ticket how to do their job.
The one who told us not to just assume Clinton would win? That one?
You mean the Michael Moore who predicts the Democrats to lose every election and finally was right one time out of 20 guesses.
A broke clock is right twice a day which means it has a waaaaaay higher accuracy rate than Moore. LOL!
He said we were taking Clinton's win for granted. He was right.
I completely agree with everything you said. This is not the time for that sort of rhetoric. There is too much at stake.
Over the weekend I was bombarded by ads from the RNCC and other PACs attacking Greenfield (Joni Ernst senate opponent) as part of the Radical Left.
Tying Biden or Senate candidates to Bernie and AOC in swing states (or at least key parts of them) is going to hurt the Dem chances.
We MUST win both the White House and the Senate or it doesn't matter what agenda that Biden has. McTurtle will block every last bill that comes out of the house.
Everyone needs to understand that taking down Trump and McConnell's hold on the Senate are not just important they are the only thing that will allow the country to get better.
Anything that gets in teh way of it (like Bernie and his followers last time, see the votes siphoned off by Green and Libertarians from the Dems in Wisc, MI, and PA) is not acceptable.
You want to argue over policy -- fine after the election we can debate how much of the moreleftist parts of the agenda we want to go after. Right now it is all hands on deck to get Trump, McConnell, Gardner, Ernst, Tillis, etc.
If he thought he had some helpful advice he should have told him in private.
Instead, Bernie just wanted to shoot his mouth off and be quoted on the MSM.
He doesnt know when to STFU. Also, he refuses to tell his most rabid supporters to STFU.
November is about winning a national election, something Bernie has yet to do.
Bernie isn't trying to tear the party in half. He's trying to help Joe get elected. Since when did making campaign suggestions become such drama?
"I'm not Trump" campaigns.
Public statements about what Biden "NEEDS" to do are.
If Sanders wants to hang on to ANY relevance at all after the election, his best chance is to quietly support the Democratic ticket as it is, not as he wishes it were, because THIS time, no one will be around to listen to him at all if Trump should steal the election again. To retake the White House, our margin of victory needs to be overwhelming, as demonstrated by the last election. Winning by a "comfortable margin" has proven to not be enough. Every "lookit me" headline generated by Sanders IS drama, and is one more distraction from a goal the country cannot afford to miss this time. It is not only not helpful, it is detrimental. Until Election Day, anyway.
Sanders might ponder that he will probably get more accomplished after the election by calling in an IOU to a president-elect Biden than wagging an "I-told-you-so" finger at a runner-up Biden.
I don't know why anybody would want to adopt a 'there will be no opinions or discussion of anything any more. Silence is the only acceptable option.'
I don't think anybody has actually said those words here, but that is the impression all these comments about Bernie leave. That is a disturbing scenario.
especially here, who have a burr in their britches. And that burr is called Bernie Sanders.
If anyone else had made those statements, it likely wouldn't be getting much attention. But because it's Bernie, it's gonna piss people off.
Just follow the Clinton model and we win the presidency!
Sanders doesn't want Trump to win. Do you not think that reaching out to the progressive side of the party might help especially since a good deal of young Dems are part of that and historically don't vote? There was plenty of reaching out to the middle and to Republicans at the convention. Why not also reach left?
...end up being stuff almost everyone here agrees with?
Yes your words needed to be said, Bernie's not so much. I've always liked Bernie, he did diminishes credibility with me when he repeated Republicans Putin slams against Hillary, but I forgave him. He dropped out early enough and had been saying all the right things. I don't know what made him start being self-serving again, he should know by now not to rely on the least reliable voting block there is.
We Tivo the Sunday yack shows and watch them later in the day. My husband and I noticed that all the republican scum spokespeople on all the shows mentioned the Bernie Sanders criticisms of Biden and his campaign.
Stop handing them their talking points, Bernie.
The PTB in our party need to remember that Bernie is not a Democrat. He uses our party's resources every four years. He steals our longstanding ideas and calls them his own.
We need unity.
Go home, Bernie. I don't care which of your houses you go home to, just do it.
That's not how discussion boards work.
If we are going to mock someone for having more than one home, Biden is in that group. I felt any discussion on the rest of your post would go nowhere.
What about Joe? He has more than one home?
The point is that Bernie is undermining Joe's campaign and you know it.
If you are going to say it is bad for a politician to have more than one house, I just wanted to point out that your avatar has more than one home. Unless it isn't about the homes and you just wanted to dump on Sanders for something. Asking for consistency isn't whataboutism.
And Bernie is in now way undermining the campaign. He doesn't want to happen what happened in 2016. You remember when any criticism of the Clinton campaign was met with "she's got this; stop being negative" and then we lost. Maybe we need to have a different attitude this time and adjust things as they go along.
Do you think Sanders is wrong? Do think it is bad to try make sure that progressive Dems feel included?
when he is not a Democrat? Who put him in charge?
Please note, as others in this thread have pointed out, that nine other Democratic Senators, based on their records, are more progressive than Bernie. None of them are trying to make themselves the spokesperson for progressive Democrats. None of them are criticizing Joe's campaign in ways that make us look weak.
The Democratic platform is progressive. Bernie has had his chance.
....a national campaign.
Biden knows how to do it. Remember, he won. And the person who he defeated handily is telling him what to do?
As for making sure "progressive Dem" feel included, remember the series of Task Forces that Biden put together prior to the Convention? Even though Sanders wound up with less than 30% of both the popular vote AND the delegates, Biden gave Sanders EQUAL representation on those Task Forces and each had co-chairs - one Biden person and one Sanders person.
This business about progressives not feeling included is garbage. If they don't feel included they're not paying attention - Biden has been MORE than generous in his inclusion of EVERY Democrat.
So, to answer the first question in your last line - yes, Sanders is wrong. All he's doing is PUBLICLY criticizing the Biden campaign. We don't need that.
Sorry, Bernie. This isn't the time to move hard left and give Donnie Deathtoll little bombs to toss.
Biden has made concessions to make Bernie feel wanted and loved and still he's inside pissing on our tent. He's all about his own grievances since Dem voters did all go ga ga for Medicare for All.
Come-on, Bernie. You and your supporters can help the rest of us win. Now is the time to do the right thing to get rid of the antagonist in the WH, Bernie, it's not the time to play politics!!!
I think Bernie craves the spotlight and wants to be a mover within the Democratic Party. My attitude is the same as it's always been...Bernie can be a part of the Democratic planning when he joins the party, and actually does something. Right now he needs to get behind this thing or STFU. This is not time for nuance...we've got to get this lunatic out of office, and Bernie saying, "Yes, but..." right now is the last thing we need.
based on not seeing the stupidity of inserting himself at a time when trump and Russian bots are working OVERTIME to amplify divisions in our party. Thanks for nothing, bernie!
If he's serious about helping Biden win.
I've always loved Bernie, but he's got to be more careful now, not to do any campaign talk anymore unless he's got an official slot at a Biden event.
I bet that he's been given feedback and this will come to nothing.
Bernie should talk to Joe privately. Unity among Democrats, that is what I want. Regardless, I will vote for the nominee every single time. This time, it is Joe Biden. I will be honored to vote for Joe and Kamala.
I say that as someone who likes Bernie just fine but did not, and never have voted for him in a primary.
Thats all we need is to start this crap up again. So counter-productive.
It would've been better for Bernie to offer some suggestions in private. Airing this in public serves no one.
Biden has articulated, and needs to keep articulating, the reasons people should vote for him. "Trump is bad" is not a policy position.
Nothing Sanders is saying here is incorrect or bad.
I agree 100%. This is not the time, to fight each other. We have to get that maniac, out of the Whitehouse.
He can push for what he wants after a Democratic President sits in the Oval Office. Until then, he should be doing all he can to see that happens.
"There is one objective and that is to defeat Trump and his goons!"
I like Bernie. I respect Bernie, but the infighting can wait....
He is trying to help in the best way he can. He is observing the fact that young progressives are not flocking to to biden. It is true. He is concerned. He is not trying to treat the party apart as you suggest. That is ridiculous. He wanted biden to win just as much as you and I do and anyone who suggests anything other than that is completely wrong
But he's not doing it a lot of favors either. For an old political pro (and Senator Sanders has certainly been around long enough to know the score) -- this was a tremendously ham-handed move, from someone that certainly should have known better. Talking points for all the media pundits. Just in time for Sunday talk. "Democrats in disarray!" What could possible go wrong?
The people made their choice. If Bernie wants to disrupt democracy he can.............. awwww, forget it. Bernie will never be silent. How would Bernie react if someone tried to tell him what to do if it was his presidential campaign? I think we all know the answer to that question. I'll bite my tongue and leave it at that.
He's not starting one. There are plenty of people out there still angry about two primary losses, and they are talking about refusing to vote for Biden. Two votes per precinct lost us the election in MI. That's two pissed off Bernie supporters we needed to win. We can't let that happen this time. I'm not sure how to thread the needle between them and the people in the middle who say they will jump ship if the party moves to the left, but someone smarter than me needs to figure it out.
It's time to put the Bernie wars to rest. #StillWithHer
on republicans and trump. They're the enemy here. Not Bernie or Biden or anyone else working to secure Biden's election.
Bernie is only pointing out the obvious. Biden is offering no new ideas and it is driving me crazy. Every single Biden ad I have seen basically says, "Vote for me, I'm not Trump!" or "I'm a uniter, not a divider!" I keep thinking, "C'mon Joe come up with some bold policy and push it!" He could talk about eliminating student debt, a living wage, legalizing marijuana, ANYTHING! But no, he just keeps saying, "Trump is bad! Vote for me!". He's like a one-note wonder! And Bernie is rightfully pointing out the fact that just saying you're not Trump isn't enough! Plus there is a progressive wing of the Democratic Party, which I am a part of, which is largely ignored. It seems like Biden is trying to get all the centrists out there and not caring about anyone else. So don't kill the messenger. Bernie is just speaking some harsh truths. Biden HAS to campaign on something other than not being Donald Trump. That's my 2 cents worth.
trump is still trying to claim that Joe Biden is the tool of sanders and the socialists wing of the party. Joe is running a smart campaign and there is no need to make wild or aggressive proposals that will be easy to use. trump has been working hard in Florida to paint Joe Biden as a socialist and these claims are hurting Joe Biden with many Latino voters. If sanders was the nominee, Florida would be solidly in trump's column and trump would be winning easily.
Joe is running on restoring our government and that is sufficient for me
trump really wanted to run against socialism and was unable to use this line of attack
It really doesn't make sense to ALIENATE the center (where all the votes are) while trying to go-fringe and change unreliable voters. Elections are always won from the center. Real world voters and real world Democrats know and understand this.
This is just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.
It serves NO useful purpose for him to continue to take pot-shots and snipe-away at Biden's campaign. Bernie lost. His issues lost. There's no good reason for Biden to try and "become" Bernie. It make no sense.
...and wrapped up the nomination by mid-March. I think he knows how to run his campaign. He doesn't need to be told how to do it by the person that he defeated soundly.
You obviously haven't been watching his speeches in the last week or two. Did you see the one he gave this afternoon?
He's NOT a "one-note wonder", that's offensive.
Bernie is ranked 10th most progressive.
I don't see
Being ignored. They rank 1-9. Bernie comes in at 10.
Also after dropping out immediately threw their support to Biden then went back to their day jobs with nary a wine or demand.
To ask for SOMETHING for the 72% of democratic voters that prefer a more progressive agenda?
Or to possibly appeal to the 52% of REPUBLICAN voters who favor a more progressive agenda (when asked about individual issues)?
Gosh an agenda with such broad appeal would be an absolute NIGHTMARE!!
Have you ever heard Barack Obama's internal criticisms of Biden?
The President Was Not Encouraging: What Obama Really Thought About Biden
Where was the multi day criticisms of Obama? Sanders has actually been pissing off many of his own supporters by urging them to vote for Biden. He can't please everyone.
And he's certainly very happy to be saying it publicly in interviews. This doesn't sound like a man who is upset that there was a "leak" because it gives reporters reason to ask him more about it, whereas they likely would not have said, "Are you concerned at all about how the Biden campaign is going?" had there not been a leak that he was "discussing concerns privately."
It"s all about Bernie for Bernie. He should join the fight for Biden or get out of his way.