Over 1000 PASTORS Set To DEFY IRS, Redefine ‘Separation Of Church And State’

[Segami]

The Alliance Defending Freedom, a group of “ministries” with a clearly conservative political agenda, have announced their intention to confront the Internal Revenue Service (and the U.S. Constitution) over the issue of political speech from the pulpit. A 1954 amendment to the tax code prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. The group intends to videotape over 1000 pastors doing just that, and sending the tapes to the IRS. Their purpose is to force the government to impose sanctions on one or more of the churches, as a prelude to a court case, challenging the constitutionality of the law.



The amendment states tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, are:

absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.

Violation of this restriction “may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise tax.”
According to Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel for the group, in an interview with FoxNews.com:

The purpose is to make sure that the pastor — and not the IRS — decides what is said from the pulpit. It is a head-on constitutional challenge.

We’re hoping the IRS will respond by doing what they have threatened. We have to wait for it to be applied to a particular church or pastor so that we can challenge it in court. We don’t think it’s going to take long for a judge to strike this down as unconstitutional.

In a country that has seen an upswing in ‘Christian conservatism’ in recent years, this could become a milestone in the direction of American politics and law. It could have far-reaching effects to uncounted social and legal spheres, affecting even or military and the reasons we go to war. If this is a first amendment issue, as is claimed, it would seem the ADF’s argument is invalid; the government (in this instance the IRS) is neither prohibiting or restricting anyone’s free speech. Pastors and other clergy, are already free to make political endorsements from the pulpit; they have no inherent right to expect the U.S. government to exempt them from taxation, however. Political endorsement is clearly beyond the spiritual realm. Taking monetary gifts or donations while participating in the political process is simply not a free speech matter.






cont'

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/24/over-1000-pastors-set-to-defy-irs-redefine-seperation-of-church-and-state/

[marmar]

1. Has there ever been a greater destabilzing force in the world than organized religion?

nt

[elleng]

3. No, in fact.

And we can sure use their money!

[roguevalley]

35. stupid people using religion fries my butt. tax their asses

[1-Old-Man]

39. Never, though plague and drought have come close.

[nanabugg]

41. Fine, let them do politics from the pulpit. Just tax the hell (heaven) out of them. And

make the trustees liable for unpaid taxes as well as the pastor....see how long that lasts.

[yardwork]

2. Bring it. They can say anything they want, but they have to pay taxes.

Imagine how wealthy the U.S. would be if the Catholic Church and Mormon Church paid taxes on their income. We would solve the healthcare problem, along with housing and education.

[Segami]

4. They want the cake and they want to eat it by themselves.

[el_bryanto]

5. Well you could tax investment income - and land use income

What about donations? would those be taxable?

Bryant

[robinlynne]

6. why not? donations to me are taxable.

[el_bryanto]

9. I don't think they are - gifts generally aren't unless the go over a certain threshold?

I don't know what that threshold is but i think it's in the thousands.

Bryant

[robinlynne]

14. It is 12,000 per year.

[el_bryanto]

18. 12,000 recieved or 12,000 given?

but thanks for looking that up.

[robinlynne]

20. same difference.

[el_bryanto]

46. Not exactly

If i have 1000 friends and each gives me 12 bucks - I've received $12,000 and I'm fine - but i I make a new friend and he gives me my 12 bucks, well, than I'm over - if it is money received. However if it is money given, I'm fine - everybody can give me up to $12,000.

Bryant

[robinlynne]

49. I belive it is both, but I'm not sure. If 3 people write you a check for 12,000, you are going

to need to pay taxes on 24,000.00.
(Actually it is 13,000 now. Used to be 12,000.)

[yardwork]

7. Yes, it's income. If they don't want to be tax-exempt they can say anything they want.

The churches have a very sweet deal. They coerce millions of people into giving them billions of dollars, and they don't pay a dime in taxes. In return, all they have to do is call themselves a religious organization and stay somewhat out of politics. In fact, most churches are deeply involved in politics. They barely skirt outside the letter of the law and they violate it's spirit all the time.

If the churches want to escalate this, fine. We could use the tax revenue.

[Raster]

10. Hear! Hear!

Tax the bastids!

[DiverDave]

11. "We could use the tax revenue"

Ding,Ding,Ding, we have a winnah.

[el_bryanto]

19. Do you favor a blanket reform, or do you favor focusing on those churches who are pressing

this idiotic challenge?

Bryant

[yardwork]

22. Focus on the "churches" that are choosing politics over religion.

I don't know what you mean by reform. Most churches play by the rules. Those who don't are no longer churches and should be taxed just like other for-profit entities.

[Tom Ripley]

37. Tax them all

[Segami]

8. If churches are allowed to make political endorsements

while maintaining a ' tax exempt ' status, then they will become nothing more than political propaganda machines of either parties with access to unlimited charitable funds & donations (political bribery). Jesus will have a political party affiliation.

[we can do it]

12. Tax them, we can use the money

[cr8tvlde]

16. Agreed. One less difference between us, the Taliban and Teheran.

Totally serious. I think it would be like the secret filming of Mitt...normal people aghast.

[grasswire]

13. at the recent Values Voters conference, that was the advice to pastors.

Just go ahead and politicize from the pulpit, and let the IRS come after you.

[bamacrat]

15. Make them pay taxes.

They should be taxed either way, but if they are going to do this then tax the hell out of them...no pun.

[madrchsod]

17. fine the shit out of them....

stupid fucks have been doing this for years with a wink and a nod. now they want to stick in the face of all the rest of us that play by the rules.

[Initech]

21. Oh god - allowing the American Taliban to preach politics guilt free...

Would be a far scarier threat to our election process than any number of Citizens United decisions ever could. The last thing we want in this country is a fundamentalist theocratic dictatorship in this country.

[Blue Idaho]

23. Preach Politics from the Pulpit

Lose your tax exempt status. Time to tell your pastor or priest, congress critters, and the White House what they risk losing when they use their pulpit as a political tool.

Use your freedom of speech to let those in a proctected status know what they risk when they pick sides in a political contest.

[Teamster Jeff]

24. Take away their Tax Exempt Status

then tax the fucklights out of them. If they don't pay slap a lien on the church and lock the doors.

Seems like a win-win situation to me.

[FedUpWithIt All]

25. Titus 3:1-2

Titus 3

Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.

I've posted this already today but it seems appropriate here as well...

Republican Jesus.

[MotherPetrie]

26. Does anybody expect the IRS to stand up to them? I sure don't.

[spanone]

30. i suspect they will make an example of a few.

[lame54]

27. The IRS should meet their challenge...

we could use the cash

[BlueToTheBone]

28. Don't be tax exempt and you can say whatever you want.

Take our money, play by our rules.

Has the IRS been alerted? How does one start with that.

[spanone]

29. they can defy the law, but they can't redefine it as far as the constitution....sorry suckers

[malaise]

32. Money talks

Make them pay their taxes and see how far the rats run.

[LiberalFighter]

31. May they suffer the consequences!

[kestrel91316]

33. If they ultimately win, I will found a church that I will be head of and

use to fund my entire lifestyle, and will also use it to endorse liberal candidates. Two can play at this game.

[NYC Liberal]

34. It is perfectly constitutional. If you don't want to pay taxes as a 501(c) org, then you must

accept the conditions to do so. Religious institutions like churches are not tax-exempt because they're religious; they're tax-exempt because they are registered as non-profits.

If any non-profit, including a church, wants to play politics, they are free to do so. However, they must then pay their taxes like everyone else.

[northoftheborder]

36. List of members?

I would like to know who exactly are members of this group. I went to the link, but all I could find was a list of other organizations joining in this alliance. I suppose you might check each of those, to see individual names or churches - has anyone pursued this?

[Segami]

43. Here is a link for the Alliance Defending Freedom Leadership Team

http://www.alliancedefendingfreedom.org/about/leadership

[gollygee]

38. They don't really want to give up the separation of church and state.

They can't be controlled by the government, they can't be made to marry people they don't want to marry, they can't be made to be inclusive if they don't want to be, and they don't have to pay taxes. They need to think long and hard about whether they want to give up all those things.

[jmowreader]

40. Right now, the Commissioner of Internal Revenue should be approving overtime requests...

because if these 1000 preachers want to challenge the IRS by endorsing from the pulpit and sending videos of them doing it to the IRS, the IRS should respond by revoking every church's tax-exempt status. Forget picking one or two to send a message: revoke ALL their tax exemptions and send them nice fat bills.

Then notify the rest of the churches that the IRS has NO problem with doing it as many times as is necessary until these guys learn that rules mean what they say.

[Prophet 451]

42. And the current SCOTUS will side with them

If the IRS rises to the bait, this bunch of pricks will have the money and will to fight this to the SCOTUS and this (conservative activist) SCOTUS will side with them.

[davidpdx]

44. They are essentially going to force the IRS to either enforce the law or not

If they do, the churches will sue and it will go all the way to the US Supreme Court. Both sides would appeal any lower court ruling.

[fun n serious]

45. Please sign petition

http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2012/09/action-alert-more-than-1000-pastors-plan-to-challenge-irs-by-endorsing-presidential-candidate-speak-out/

[HopeHoops]

47. So why is the Westboro Bastard Cult still considered a church?

[jackbenimble]

48. Churches should be taxed.

Let them take deductions for any charitable work they perform. That way the shams who are just hiding under the guise of being a religious organization won't benefit unless they actually do something worth while.

Maybe this 'protest' will be the catalyst to start us moving in that direction.