For the first 49 years of my life, I wondered how the Holocaust could have happened.

[soothsayer]

Link to tweet

?s=21

Rabbi Michael Adam Latz #BlackLivesMatter
@RavMABAY
For the first 49 years of my life, I wondered how the Holocaust could have happened.

I don't wonder any more.

[LizBeth]

1. Absolutely.

[randr]

2. I've spent most of my 70+ years worried about when it happens again

The history of humanity is written in blood

[roamer65]

3. Genocide is a constant theme in human history.

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2020, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Sad to say, but true.

[Klaralven]

8. An almost universal theme is the replacement of hunter/gatherers by agriculturalists

[erronis]

20. And now the workers/hunters/gatherers by technologists and vulture capitalists.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the last 50 years has seen an erosion of the worth of the people who actually produce goods for the benefit of the leverage artists.

[Klaralven]

28. Yes, the '70s were the end of the "rising tide lifts all boats" era.

The Club of Rome figured out that there wasn't enough "tide" for everyone, especially if that meant raising the "third world" to first world standards of living.

But, considering that the rest of the world couldn't be deprived for ever, the upper strata of the first world sought to improve their lot, and let the upper strata of the underdeveloped countries join them, while capping living standards for most of the population in the first world.

In a world of limited resources, you get what you can. It's simple economics -- the dismal science.

[jaxexpat]

19. I bow to your wisdom.

I've lived my nearly 70 years, certain, that in a good fight, the good guys would defeat the dark forces. That's the fruit of too much Roy Rogers and Sky King on long ago Saturday mornings in youthful America. Life grown isolated and insulated, as a greenhouse plant, in an escape from the realities of universal poverty and a world at war. Such was childhood in the 50's for so many midwestern children.

[PatSeg]

50. Same here

Also Americans as a rule tend to live in a bubble, where autocratic, oppressive governments happen to other people, in lands far, far away. Warfare happens "over there" and heavily bombed cities are in other countries. We can acknowledge the violence, pain, and loss, even donate money to help the many victims worldwide, but for the most part, people can't imagine all those horrible things happening here. We're better than that.

But of course, we are vulnerable as well. The same things that have brought down other democracies can bring down our's. The same right-wing, fascist elements we see in Eastern Europe exist here. The same kinds of people behind restrictive theocracies live in the United States.

Awhile back, I read Erik Larson's book, In the Garden of Beasts, about 1930's Germany and I could see how the Nazis gained power and I could also see it starting to happen here as well. We see the equivalent of the very violent Brownshirts carrying military style weapons, feeling entitled and encouraged by their leader.

Truly, it CAN happen here.

[appalachiablue]

53. Well said, great post, TY.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." (Voltaire)

The Q-Anon conspiracies and the Trump covid lies are the absurdities that a disturbing number of people actually believe. If not stopped, the atrocities will come from the same people.

[steve2470]

27. great quote, thanks ! nt

[scarletwoman]

41. Extremely germane quote.

[madaboutharry]

5. There is a classic scene in the movie "Hannah and Her Sisters."

(I know, Woody Allen, Ugh....)

But anyway, Max Von Sydow portrays the brooding artist and older lover of Barbara Hershey. He is sitting in their apartment, morose, and says:

"You missed a very dull TV show on Auschwitz. More gruesome film clips, and more puzzled intellectuals declaring their mystification over the systematic murder of millions. The reason they can never answer the question "How could it possibly happen?" is that it's the wrong question. Given what people are, the question is "Why doesn't it happen more often?"

[smirkymonkey]

31. +1000

Sad, but true.

[Disaffected]

38. Rwanda being a more recent case in point...

The Wiegers and Kurds haven't exactly fared very well either.

[aidbo]

40. Uyghurs, actually. Just FYI

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs

[Disaffected]

43. Thanks,

I don't know where I picked that up. Googling "Wiegers china" comes up with articles about Uyghurs so maybe it's a more common misspelling(?) and, Google is smart enough to figure it out.

Other spellings BTW apparently are Uighurs, Uygurs, and Uigurs.

[aidbo]

44. Phonetically it sounds like wiegers

[Disaffected]

49. It does but,

I could swear I've seen it somewhere (maybe it was something I've written myself before )

[Marcuse]

46. Today the Rohingya in Myanmar are being raped and slaughtered by their government.

][link:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/world/asia/myanmar-rohingya-genocide.html|

[msongs]

6. believers of 2 similar relgious groups conspire to kill members of a different religious group.

[erronis]

23. Intriguing. Christian and Muslim vs. Jewish?

Don't forget the unholy war against people-that-think.

Most of the sectarian cults would happily cut the throats and other atrocities of another cult brand, even in the Muslim, "christian", Jewish varieties.

I don't know too many "people-that-think" that want to kill/rape/maim others.

[Sneederbunk]

7. Read Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Goldhagen.

[moondust]

9. People Aren't Smart Enough

From 2012.

~
The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas.
~
People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say

I've wondered about it for 50+ years. Germans were/are "smart" people. I lived in Berlin for more than a year in the 70s and rode the nice subways sometimes late at night without any worries about crime or anything. Everything seemed pretty normal and "advanced" inside the Wall. Of course there were also some greedy outsiders like Prescott Bush and Fred Koch who are partly to blame for the rise of the Nazis.

[KT2000]

10. I think of this often

It is a big part of who I am. And now after all these years the answer is obvious and defended by common citizens including once friends. My heart is broken.

[uponit7771]

11. K&R,

[DaisyTom]

12. we need a lot more study and understanding of cognitive science

seems like bad people intuitively know how to manipulate the human psyche

we need real tools to understand, recognize and combat this

[niyad]

15. Welcome to DU. You make a most excellent point.

[DaisyTom]

22. .

[CloudWatcher]

32. I think I disagree

We know what is happening, additional study isn't really needed.

We're just afraid to do the right thing.

And that would be teaching everyone critical thinking in school. Get people to think and not just assume what they hear on TV (or from their friends, or pastors) is correct. Teach them that while tribalism is genetic, our tribe should be humans defending the planet from global warming. Teach science and demand extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.

But yeah, that can't happen without a sea change because ... religion. And to a lesser, extent, capitalism. Our system is designed to produce willing consumers making money for the ones at the top .. who make all the rules to keep it that way.

I remember watching a few seconds of Fox the other day when they were doing the usual ridiculous spin on the news. What was interesting was the commercial break then went to an equally outlandish (and really obviously fraudulent) commercial trying to fleece their viewers.

Reminds me of the WC Fields line about "never smarten up a chump or give a sucker an even break." We have con men not just in the White House, but ruling the US and way too much of the rest of the world.

Education is the key. Trump's election was a clear indictment of our education system.

[erronis]

36. I'm betting there are thousands of doctoral dissertations on this subject

Now, to find another 100 meta-studies to pull those together.

And at least 20 learned papers to synthesize.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. But these types of things seem to be studied to death. Papers are written and published. And here we are, again.

[wendyb-NC]

13. That's for sure.

The individual occupying the oval office, at this time , makes it all too clear.

[JI7]

14. It's not surprising it happened when you look at anti semitism in Europe

It didn't just come out of nowhere. People already had anti semitic views. They didn't need convincing that they were bad suspicious people. That's how they were already seen as.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

24. Yes, the foundation was already set.

Similar to the decades of right-wing media lies in the USA, but with a generally more disturbing racist message. (Although right-wingers here keep moving more that direction.)

The final blow to Germany's collective sanity happened after it was declared illegal to criticize Hitler or the Nazis, something else that Trump and his followers would like to adopt.

[Pepsidog]

16. Exactly what I told me kids.

[Wounded Bear]

17. Indeed! nt

[Tommymac]

18. I read 2/3rds of the young people today never HEARD of the Holocaust.

That is a huge indictment against our public education system.

I have toured the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC twice. So sad, horrifying, and eye opening. It has affected me every day of my life since.

"What You Do Matters"

I wish they could take the museum on a road show to every school district in the USA. It's that important.

[appalachiablue]

51. Like many museums, the US Holocaust Museum

in DC has excellent educational outreach tools and resources for teachers and students.

Some of the issues around the lack of education and ignorance of the Holocaust has to do with individual school systems, budgets, policies and trained teachers.

I think only a handful of US states require teaching Holocaust Studies in public schools which is a real shame.

But some states have their own Holocaust collections, programs and museums.

Learning through in person visits to institutions is ideal, but when it's not possible the outreach programs offer excellent information and materials.

U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, Wash., DC, Teaching Resources, https://www.ushmm.org/teach

https://www.ushmm.org/outreach-programs/students/bringing-the-lessons-home




'First Person Podcasts' Interviews with Holocaust Survivors.

[Tommymac]

56. Thank You so much for posting this. What We Do Matters.

As I said, I have never been as moved or emotionally drained as I was after my visits there.

It is a must see, and I'm happy that they have such a great outreach program.

[Harker]

21. I'm over 60

and still haven't figured that one out.

[pat_k]

26. Some insight in these books

The Science of Evil: On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty

Less Than Human: We We Demean, Enslave, and Exterminate Others

[Harker]

58. Thank you. I appreciate that. n/t

[pat_k]

25. A couple book you might be interested in

The Science of Evil: On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty

Less Than Human: We We Demean, Enslave, and Exterminate Others

[Dukkha]

29. You'll be seeing a lot of the Nuremberg defense in the next coming years

Enablers, ardent supporters and conspirators within the GOP fervently claiming they were merely following orders.

[appalachiablue]

55. +1 At least one I suspect now who's been in the news

for the past few days.

[steve2470]

30. I used to be mystified too, but no longer, I totally get it now nt

[COL Mustard]

45. It's Actually Easy To Do...

All you need is to divide the populace by demonizing one or more groups (Jews, homosexuals, intellectuals) and getting enough disenfranchised people to support you as you raise them up into positions of power. Then the good people of the country, who aren't affected, are busy with their lives and not noticing it until it's too late...and then, it's too late.

We all look at Nazi Germany as the prime exemplar, but there are so many other examples like Cambodia (the Killing Fields) and Rwanda (how many thousands killed in just a few short weeks, while most of us were busy going about our everyday lives?). Don't forget the Kurds, and I know I'm missing many others.

People are cruel, and cruelty can become commonplace easily.

OK, now I need a drink!

[Darwin2019]

33. Read John Dean's New Book if you want to understand what in human nature allows

the rise of authoritarians like Trump and Hitler

[erronis]

39. Link to publisher of Authoritarian Nightmare.

http://static.mhpbooks.com/authoritarian-nightmare/

[NNadir]

34. I was going through the same exercise last night, as I noted in the history forum here:

I spent 3 1/2 hours last night listening to Amon Goeth's (Schindler's List) former slave talk...

...about her life as his slave.

I certainly understand the Holocaust better because of Trump, at least with respect to the slippery slope by which it happened.

One hopes that his entry into the "deaths caused" category will stop well short of Hitler's, but it certainly hasn't done any stopping yet.

[patphil]

35. Trump sounds more like Hitler every day.

[CloudWatcher]

37. The day Trump got the GOP nomination

The day Trump got the nomination, I gained empathy for the German people of the 1920s and 30s.

[COL Mustard]

42. Shanna Tova, Rabbi.....

And thank you for posting.

[TxVietVet]

47. Same here. At the end of WWII,

My father’s Army unit secure a concentration camp to protect and help the prisoners. He said it shocked him and he wondered how this could have happened.
I believe we are watching the beginning of this again. All thanks to the Koch brothers and the teabaggers and conservanazis of the Republican Party. They are also demonizing the Democratic Party.

[Hekate]

48. Rabbi, my husband & I agree, and we are 73. His parents survived the Holocaust...

...and by good fortune passed away in the fullness of time here in California.

I can safely say that we are both glad neither of them is alive to see what’s happening in 2020.

[Blue_true]

52. Yes. I see clearly now how the Holocaust could have happen.

I see clearly how people could have justified slavery.

People like Hitler, Trump and slave owners figure out a way to tap into people’s hatreds and darkest emotions.

[Cha]

54. Rt..

[live love laugh]

57. Me either