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Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:10 AM

Trump will get his SCOTUS nominee confirmed. What will the Dems do in response?

That's the question we should be asking. There's little to nothing that the Dems can do to stop it, so how will the Dems respond if/when they get back into power?

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Reply Trump will get his SCOTUS nominee confirmed. What will the Dems do in response? (Original post)
Yavin4 Sep 22 OP
Autumn Sep 22 #1
Yavin4 Sep 22 #2
Autumn Sep 22 #4
FBaggins Sep 22 #3
samnsara Sep 22 #5
Aepps22 Sep 22 #9
hamsterjill Sep 22 #14
LonePirate Sep 22 #6
LenaBaby61 Sep 22 #10
Polybius Sep 22 #30
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #32
Polybius Sep 22 #34
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #40
Polybius Sep 22 #49
OrlandoDem2 Sep 22 #7
NewJeffCT Sep 22 #23
LenaBaby61 Sep 22 #8
frazzled Sep 22 #12
LenaBaby61 Sep 22 #15
frazzled Sep 22 #20
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #33
beachbumbob Sep 22 #11
Celerity Sep 22 #13
LenaBaby61 Sep 22 #17
Celerity Sep 22 #27
moonscape Sep 22 #51
Celerity Sep 22 #58
moonscape Sep 22 #59
Celerity Sep 22 #60
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #35
helpisontheway Sep 22 #16
Bradshaw3 Sep 22 #18
Merlot Sep 22 #24
Bradshaw3 Sep 22 #39
Merlot Sep 22 #50
Bradshaw3 Sep 22 #57
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #36
safeinOhio Sep 22 #19
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #42
safeinOhio Sep 22 #45
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #48
TheRealNorth Sep 22 #21
ooky Sep 22 #22
MineralMan Sep 22 #25
Yavin4 Sep 22 #26
Demsrule86 Sep 22 #37
Initech Sep 22 #28
Yavin4 Sep 22 #29
Initech Sep 22 #38
Bradshaw3 Sep 22 #41
Initech Sep 22 #44
dware Sep 22 #55
dware Sep 22 #54
Initech Sep 22 #56
Baclava Sep 22 #31
jorgevlorgan Sep 22 #43
DSandra Sep 22 #46
octoberlib Sep 22 #47
treestar Sep 22 #52
d_b Sep 22 #53

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:11 AM

1. Things will go on as usual. Only worse.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:12 AM

2. As it's been since 1980. n/t

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:13 AM

4. Yes. nt

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:12 AM

3. First - Win the election

Stop counting chickens (particularly when the public counting of those chickens is likely to damage the chances of achieving the first step).

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:15 AM

5. vote him out..get the senate..pack the courts!

..or move to Canada where we will start a very Liberal Commune...grow our own food and communally dine, live and flourish in peace love and harmony.




I cant wait for either!

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Response to samnsara (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:19 AM

9. This

Register people to vote and vote. We have to start giving Dems the tools to fight back. When we sit out elections and don't vote we don't give them the numbers to make effective change.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:38 AM

14. Can I come please?

I really seriously like that idea. More every day.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:18 AM

6. Nothing if Feinstein has her way. She opposes any significant changes to the court, like more seats

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:24 AM

10. She's just about outlived ...

Her usefulness IMHO.

She really needs to retire if she thinks that this country can survive an Attila the Hun High Court.

It's already bad enough that the lower courts are stacked with unqualified WWJD, Federalist freaks for the next several generations.

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:52 PM

30. Biden is on record as opposing it as well

Unless he changed his mind.

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Response to Polybius (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:56 PM

32. He has changed his mind actually. Nothing can be done with a filibuster.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #32)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:58 PM

34. Can you please post a link to him changing his mind?

I'm shocked I didn't hear about it, as I read the news daily. He opposed expanding the court as recently as the debates this year.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #40)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:03 PM

49. It's my enemy today

I was talking about providing a link to Biden changing his mind on expanding the Supreme Court, not the filibuster.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:18 AM

7. Make DC and PR states after we win the WH and Senate in 6 weeks.

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Response to OrlandoDem2 (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:24 PM

23. a good start

I would recommend at least expanding the federal judiciary at the district & appellate court levels as well. Expanding SCOTUS is a good idea, but might be harder to push through.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:19 AM

8. There won't be much of anything to do if Dems ....

Don't somehow do something to slow down placing Handmaiden's tale on the High Court.

We'll LOSE the ACA and Roe vs Wade will be only a memory.

And for good measure, even if Biden beats fatso, fatso will just take it all the way up to his NEW Supreme Court and they'll give him the presidency again as it was given to Dubya in 2000.

And marching won't do any good, because he'll just bring in his little green men again, and arrest everyone whose protesting in the streets--that's if they don't get covid first and die from it.

I'm STILL holding out hope that somehow Dems can delay, delay, delay placing that cray cray woman on the High Court.

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:33 AM

12. Not many means to slow down the process for Democrats

They can only delay the committee vote by one week, and there are no filibusters. So don't count on that. They can't even walk out and affect anything. We're legally screwed, so don't get angry at the Democratic senators for failure to delay or stop this.

Democrats have a few tools to slow down the process — most notably the ability to postpone approval by the committee for a week — but they quite likely have no means to stop Republicans altogether because filibusters were eliminated in Supreme Court confirmations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/21/us/politics/trump-supreme-court.html


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Response to frazzled (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:38 AM

15. Sorry ....

But I don't really pay much attention to the NY Times.

You lost me with what they said.

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:13 PM

20. Okay, since the New York Times doesn't satisfy you

Here are the details:

Once the president has made a choice, the nomination is referred to the United States Senate. Since the early 19th century, this has meant that the nomination will first be considered by a smaller group within the Senate, the Senate Judiciary Committee. ...

The Judiciary Committee currently has 22 members – 12 Republicans and 10 Democrats – and has a three-step process of its own.

First, it conducts an investigation into the nominee’s background. This process can take 30 to 45 days, but it’s easy to imagine it going a lot faster.

Second, the committee holds a public hearing, in which the nominee is questioned and may give testimony about everything from her judicial philosophy to her stand on abortion. ... Finally, the committee will report its recommendation to the full Senate as either favorable, negative, or no recommendation.

Once the public hearings have concluded, if the Democrats want to buy time, they can delay the committee vote for a week. But after that, it’s on to the main floor of the Senate.


Okay, in plain English, Trump's nomination will be sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which Lindsay Graham heads. There are two more Republicans than Democrats on the committee, so if they stick together, the Republicans will always win. They conduct an investigation (which usually takes a long time, but of course they will do it quickly, saying the nominee was already vetted for another position). Then all the committee members get to question the nominee (this means Kamala Harris will get to eviscerate the nominee, which will be enjoyable but useless, since the Republicans have the vote). Then the committee votes to pass it on to the Senate (or not). They will. But the Democrats then will have one lousy week to delay it being sent to the Senate. After that, it's outta there.

So, it goes to the full Senate to debate:

Currently, the Senate is majority Republican, with 53 Republicans, 45 Democrats and two Independents, who both caucus with the Democrats.

While the Senate has historically followed rules so arcane and incomprehensible that otherwise reasonable writers freely refer to them as “insane,” they can now be changed by a simple majority vote, which simplifies matters for the majority party considerably.

If the motion that the nomination be considered is made during a special “executive” session of the Senate, then the motion itself is debatable and can be blocked by filibuster – that movie-ready delay tactic in which which a senator recites Shakespeare, Dr. Seuss or recipes for fried oysters until everyone gives up and goes home.

But closing debate on the motion so that the Senate could move on to a vote no longer requires a supermajority of 60 votes, just a bare 51-Senator majority. So filibustering is likely to be about as effective as a paper hammer.

After that, the Democrats can insist on a minimum of 30 hours of debate, and then, they will be out of options to delay or stop a confirmation vote.


Okay, this means that the debate starts. But since the ability to end the debate (called "cloture" ) takes only a simple majority of votes under current rules, the Republicans can stop it at any time. The Democrats could then demand 30 more hours of debate, but then it's over. On to the vote.

And we know what that means. Unless four Republicans deflect ... game over.

https://theconversation.com/can-trump-and-mcconnell-get-through-the-4-steps-to-seat-a-supreme-court-justice-in-just-6-weeks-146544

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:57 PM

33. And that won't happen. WE have to win the election. Winning was always our only chance

to the GOP. Too bad the 'but her email crowd' didn't understand this.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:28 AM

11. no need to ask that question as we HAVE TO win first

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:38 AM

13. Even if we end up at a 53/47 or 54/46 Senate majority, not only will

expanding the SCOTUS fail, but we will not even have the votes to do away with the filibuster. There are at least 8 or more institutionalist Dems who will not vote to end it.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:46 AM

17. NOT expanding the High Court ...

WILL be a disaster, because even if there is excellent legislation all ready to go, all thuglicans have to do is kick whatever that legislation is up to the various courts that MoscowMitch has stacked with unqualified, young, WWJD, racist, Federalists and that legislation will be squashed right there, and if somehow good legislation makes it through the various lower courts and is appealed up to the High Court by these same thuglicans, it'll be squashed there as well because you have a 6-3 tRump/MoscowMitch High court in place.

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:47 PM

27. Oh, I agree, I would take it to 15. I just do not see the votes

in the Senate to do so. I hope I am wrong. First, we have to win the Senate and POTUS back or all of this is irrelevant anyway.

Doug Jones will lose, so we need 5 flips to get to 51.

14 remotely flippable seats

AZ and CO are pretty much locks.

So we are at 48.

TN and KY are probably lost causes and TX will be a super stretch.

That means we need 3 of the following

ME - Collins is going down

So we are at 49

So need 2 of these 8

NC
MT
IA
GA regular
GA special
AK
KS
SC

Bullock needs cash in MT, his lead is gone (surprisingly) and he trails the truly moronic Steve Daines, arguably the stupidest Senator. If Bullock wins, we WILL be taking back control.

I like our chances in NC, IA, AK, and SC the best, of those 8.

Kansas I would have picked as a flip for sure if Kobach had won the Rethug primary, but unfortunately he lost (and was disappointed to see so many here celebrating that loss).

I think we win 3 of the 8, so 52-48 Dem majority, maybe 4 flips, so 53-49, with a high, flip-wise of 6 wins from those 8, so 55-45 Dem Majority.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:12 PM

51. So baffling. I thought Bullock was going to be a lock :( n/t

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Response to moonscape (Reply #51)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 05:45 PM

58. he has been getting hammered with a massive amount of Rethug negative adverts

GOP pours on the attacks against Bullock: Any truth? Some, but only partially

https://missoulacurrent.com/government/2020/09/gop-attacks-bullock/



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Response to Celerity (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 05:57 PM

59. Thanks. What a shame he didn't

have more $upport for pushback. He entered with such high numbers.

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Response to moonscape (Reply #59)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 06:09 PM

60. he still can win, he needs Bloomberg and others to pour in a shedload of indirect funding

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Response to Celerity (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:59 PM

35. That is bullshit. All Dems will vote to do away with the filibuster.

and we don't need 60...McConnell did away with it for SCOTUS and he did not have 60 votes.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:43 AM

16. Focus on the election. We can't do a thing to stop the nomination.

Best think to do is ignore that and focus on the election. They want us talking about it so that it fires up their base. We need to keep the focus on Trump and all of his failures. Plus we need to make sure Biden’s positive message is getting out there.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:46 AM

18. We won't be adding states, or packing the court or making any other institutional changes

When the Democrats had all the power, there weren't institutional changes or big changes in tax policy, healthcare, etc. When repubs have all the power, they have done all those things. They even do it when they have some power like now, and will continue to do it even if they only have the Supreme Court, even though that body has no internal funding or enforcement power. Its power will grow substantially.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:36 PM

24. I think about that a lot

How back when we had Presidency, House and Senate we had a window of opportunity which dems didn't take. Yes we got ACA, but at the cost of substantial structural change which has come back to bite us. Should have also been working on voting rights at the very least.

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Response to Merlot (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:11 PM

39. In some ways they were blindsided

That goes back to the 80s and 90s when Friedmanomics and so-called patriotism that was a reaction to the 60s and 70s were used to start dismantling some of the big changes the Democrats accomplished under FDR and LBJ, and to reward wealthy elites through defense spending and tax breaks. They used tools such as somewhat disguised racism, ALEC and the dubious underpinning of academics like Friedman to grab power. I don't think Democratic leaders were prepared for that onslaught. Of course it got supercharged with Tea Baggers and now the overt racism and naked, fascistic power grab of the current repugnant party and it. I don't think you can blame Obama for the total betrayal of American values that the repugs fought him with from the start.

Now, Democratic leaders can no longer claim to be blindsided. Yes, voting rights and many other things should have been worked on, but will they try for the systemic changes that are needed if they get the Senate and WH? They are all institutionalists and, unfortunately, many if not most of the institutions are not working now. The answer seems to be to vote, and I agree, but Democrats have been winning the cumulative vote in the overwhelming majority of national Congressional and Presidential elections for two decades and yet, here we are.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #39)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:11 PM

50. I don't blame Obama, rather the democratic establishment

Now, Democratic leaders can no longer claim to be blindsided. Yes, voting rights and many other things should have been worked on, but will they try for the systemic changes that are needed if they get the Senate and WH? They are all institutionalists and, unfortunately, many if not most of the institutions are not working now. The answer seems to be to vote, and I agree, but Democrats have been winning the cumulative vote in the overwhelming majority of national Congressional and Presidential elections for two decades and yet, here we are.


This sums it up perfectly.

A lot of the democrats being blindsided is due to the insular nature of the senate.

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Response to Merlot (Reply #50)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 03:58 PM

57. I agree

It's probably the nature of a club that is that exclusive.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:00 PM

36. Stop. Democrats are a great party and part of the issue with our situation is people who

express views similar to yours not voting. Don't discourage others. Our only shot is to win.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 11:46 AM

19. At least have Articles of Impeachment for Tя☭mp and Barr

ready to present after the vote.
House needs to defund everything they have control over for the Administration next.
Place a life size real photo of the naked First Lady in their chamber.
I'm sure there is more.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:21 PM

42. No, Our strategy is to win the election.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:25 PM

45. The best strategy is

to always have a plan B.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #45)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:54 PM

48. If we lose, there is no plan possible plan B.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:14 PM

21. Win in November first

no need to telegraph the Republicans what the plan is before we are in a position to carry it out.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:17 PM

22. Sweep the election

and then increase the number of judges. I don't see another path.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:40 PM

25. We'll start by winning the presidency and a majority in the Senate.

Then, we can start the recovery process from Trump's disastrous term.

Your phrasing, though, is pretty strange. Are you not a Democrat yourself? Why not use "we" instead of "the Democrats?" That's puzzling to me.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #25)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:44 PM

26. Because "we" don't have the power to respond directly.

"We" can only respond indirectly by voting. As a voter, I would like to know the response by those running to represent me. You know. The folks who will have the actual power to respond.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:02 PM

37. It is not conducive to winning to announce our intentions before the election.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:50 PM

28. Elect Biden, Thomas retires, balance tips back.

And Mitch McConnell can go eat a bag of shit.

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Response to Initech (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:51 PM

29. No, it wont balance back.

It goes from 6-3 back to 5-4.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:09 PM

38. Yeah I realized that.

Elect Biden, Thomas retires. Liberal Senate votes to remove Kavanaugh, THEN balance tips back!

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Response to Initech (Reply #38)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:21 PM

41. Why would Thomas retire or Kavanaugh be impeached?

Thomas is the worst sort of ideologue. He's not going to retire with a Dem in the WH. What grounds could Kavanaugh be impeached on? Because he's an unqualified sexual predator asshole who should never have been nominated? All true but not enough to impeach. That isn't going to happen.

I see these and things like expanding the court, adding states, etc. as pipe dreams coming from the unfounded belief that come November all our problems will be solved. They run much deeper and until that fact is addressed, our democracy and the welfare of our people remain in peril.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:25 PM

44. Yeah the bad thing about this administration.

Is that even if they leave in November, their judicial appointments last a lifetime. And that's what the religious right wanted - control of the courts, and Trump was the one to give them their prize. That's why they elevated him to a god-like status. So the damage was done in that regard.

Actually I'd say the way to turn the courts around would be to get rid of the lifetime appointments, but that is not something that would be done overnight and would take many years to implement such a policy.

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Response to Initech (Reply #44)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:38 PM

55. Term limits for SC Justices would require a Constitutional Amendment,

it would require 2/3rd's of the Congress and 3/4ths of the States to ratify any change to the Constitution, meaning that 13 states could nullify any change.

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Response to Initech (Reply #38)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:35 PM

54. Liberal Senate votes to remove Kavanaugh?

How exactly will the Senate remove Kavanaugh?

It takes 67 Senators voting to convict and remove a SC Justice, just where do you see 67 Senators voting to convict and remove a sitting SC Justice?

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Response to dware (Reply #54)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:39 PM

56. Yeah true, that ain't happening.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 12:55 PM

31. Prepare for President-elect Biden's inauguration of course!

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:22 PM

43. Make DC and puerto rico states and stack the courts

Maybe not in that order.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:30 PM

46. Dems have no choice but to play hardball or social liberalism / culture wars are over

Five radical judges will roll back America to 1899. The Democratic Party coalition will split with the culture wars lost.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:48 PM

47. First goal is to win. Personally I'm for expanding the SC but it polls really, really badly,

which is why Feinstein etc. are coming out against it. I don't think Dems should run on this for that reason. We have to win first and foremost. After we're in power, we can make some changes.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:19 PM

52. Why do they have to? The system does not provide for "a response."

That's why we have to win elections.

45 is always lucky. Things go his way. A SCOTUS justice dies just before the end of his term. All his life things fall into his lap.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Sep 22, 2020, 02:21 PM

53. They won't do a thing. Zilch.

And people will turn on the Democratic Party. It’s going to be a shitshow.

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