Thrown out 'naked ballots' in Pennsylvania could cost Joe Biden the election

[Towlie]

Thrown out 'naked ballots' in Pennsylvania could cost Joe Biden the election

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court recently ordered officials to throw out ‘naked ballots,’ also known as ballots without a secrecy envelope. One official says that [could] result in as many as 30,000 ballots.

This decision makes no sense. Vote privacy is a right offered to voters which they can trivially waive by simply telling people how they voted. I don't see any logic to disqualifying votes simply because the voters didn't opt to keep their votes secret.

The video is frustrating because Atty. General Josh Shapiro, a Democrat, didn't even come close to answering the question, yet Ayman Mohyeldin didn't appear to notice and only moved on to the next question.

[dem4decades]

1. Remember the butterfly ballots from a Democratic area that fucked up Florida?

Can we stop shooting ourselves in the foot?

Fix this. Now!

[Statistical]

3. There is no fix. This is a crooked judge putting his thumb on the scale.

It will result in thrown out ballots. Just a question of how many and if that is enough to flip the state.

[dem4decades]

6. Then have the ballots checked for the right envelope by someone. Make it work.

[davekriss]

18. I recall

The “Democratic” Election Supervisor of Palm Beach County, Theresa LePore, the woman behind the butterfly ballots, was a Republican until she switched parties to run for the position. Palm Beach County is very democratic. Very fishy. After the election she changed parties again, but registered as a independent. Not too blatant then, I guess.

I believe Florida was stolen in 2000, Ohio in 2004. The Republicans were surprised by Obama in 2008. I believe they tried to steal it in 2012, but Rove’s “man in the middle” operation got hacked just at the right time, preventing another evening “red shift”. Then in 2016, well, if I was Putin and my operatives hacked in to tabulators, I’d change a few votes here and there to make the stolen election look plausible. But that’s just me, all silly beliefs, dontcha know?

Hmmm...

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Could be... could be... It could also cost Trump 30,000 votes because Trump voters are too...

stupid to put the ballots in the privacy envelopes.

No, he didn't answer the question because unless there are more appeals available, they are stuck with the decision. Calling all of them provisional might work, but that's a long shot.

He's right to say the best thing they can do is educate the voters to fill out and return them properly.

[Statistical]

4. Dems are voting by mail more heavily so 1% of mail in ballots are spoiled

then it hurts Biden more than Trump.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Who said more Dems are voting by mail?

[LisaL]

13. Everybody.

Trump scared off many republicans from voting by mail.

[Statistical]

15. Just one of many many polls showing the same thing

Out of all respondents who identify as Democrat, 65 percent said they will vote by mail. Meanwhile, 49 percent of independents and 35 of Republicans said they plan to vote by mail.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/516521-democrats-more-likely-to-mail-in-ballots-early-than-republicans-poll

[TreasonousBastard]

19. OK, that could be meaningful, but then we still have the "What to do about it" problem.

[Statistical]

20. I don't think there is a fix. Heavily promoting PSA on social media on how to do it properly will

reduce the number of ballots but some will be spoiled no matter what. It really is just a question of how many. If the margin is 200,000 votes and 10,000 get spoiled then despite the BS of this move it didn't matter. If the margin is 30,000 and 60,000 get spoiled it cost Biden the state.

[TreasonousBastard]

28. I understand the numbers, but looking into it further, the P Supreme Court is 5-2 Democratic...

And PA Democrats have been thrilled over the previous court rulings to allow mail-in votes to begin with, and others allowing drop boxes and loosening date restrictions.

So, I can't help thinking there's something else behind this that I don't see.

Trump beat Hillary by 44,000 in '16. I'm thinking maybe half, hopefully more, of them admit their mistake.

[tman]

5. Nah, this will harm Democrats more because far more Democrats are expected to vote by mail.

[TreasonousBastard]

11. As I asked above, who said this?

[Autumn]

7. Dems need to get a media blitz going informing people to put it in the correct envelope.

[LisaL]

14. Yep, make some videos.

Do a PSA.

[elleng]

8. PERFECT way to assure repugs can put their thumbs on the scale,

and they DO it.

WHO came up with 'envelope' scheme?

WAS Florida, now will be PENNSYLVANIA.

[TreasonousBastard]

30. If you mean the security envelope, it's common. Votes are secret, so all your ID is on the...

outside envelope which is processed to record that you voted. Then the security envelopes are thrown into a pile and mixed up before opening to actually count the votes.

If someone didn't use the security envelope for some reason, I can't see why that would invalidate the vote.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

9. This is a trip

to tip the scales of the will of the people, again you mofo's. Make it easy to vote not hard !!!

[elleng]

12. Right, but it's Pennsyltucky,

as 'some' call it.

[AJT]

16. Could voters check and if the ballot was thrown out and not counted,

go and vote again? Their name should still be on the list since the vote was not counted.

[DirkLerxst]

17. I live in PA and voted by mail in the primaries.

The instructions are *VERY* clear about what to do with the envelopes. You literally have to be either unable to read, or unable to follow simple instructions, to get it wrong.


The key is education. We need to make sure everyone knows what to do.



But I have to be honest.... if you can't follow a simple 4-step instruction that is in very large print, it is hard to understand how you can dress yourself in the morning. I think more MAGAs will screw this up than Democrats, given the low IQ of MAGA nation.

[Statistical]

21. and yet in the primary thousands of ballots were naked.

They kept them in the primary and now will not in the general.

Elections are won on the margin. Will 80% of voters mess this up? Of course not but 1% easily could and 1% of 2 million ballots is 20,000 votes.

[LisaL]

23. It's obviously not a good thing.

No clue why PA supreme court decided these ballots shouldn't be accepted.

[Statistical]

25. ... to hurt Biden.

Democratic voters outnumber Republican mail in voters by about 2:1. Anything which spoils more mail in voters hurts Biden. They are just playing the numbers game.

Now will it be enough? My guess for the whole $0.02 it is worth is ... probably not. Biden looks to be ahead enough that losing 10,000 or so ballots won't matter. However this has always been the GOP game. Disenfranchisement and voter suppression is one vote a time. 10,000 voters here, 20,000 voters there, 5,000 over there eventually in some races it is just enough.

[Awsi Dooger]

26. It's not instructions as much as situational reality

You open the envelope and all attention is to the ballot itself. That's like the anticipated present. Everything else becomes glorified filler, except the return envelope. You know that is required.

Countless people will assume they don't need to look at the instructions, just like something they bought at Walmart. The privacy envelope gets shuffled aside.

I am good at identifying situational variables. That's why I specified that envelope as the stumbling block in several posts dating to when I voted absentee in the Florida primary almost two months ago.

[ms liberty]

27. Was DirkLerxstPratt not available?

[DirkLerxst]

33. Unfortunately Pratt passed in January

and I didn't feel comfortable using that in the name.

[ms liberty]

35. Yes I know. Jan 7th.

[ms liberty]

39. Huge fan. Since the late 70's, yes. Welcome to DU! n/t

[greenjar_01]

22. More catastrophism

Fuck's sake.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Agreed!

So far, there are limited ballots submitted. Plenty of time to get people educated on doing it right.
It's 1% now. But, it could be 0.01% by the time all the mail in ballots are counted.

[Thekaspervote]

32. Agree agree!

If the ballot is not done correctly, they are obligated to send it back to the voter for correction. Funny how that part was left out...geeez

[Hoyt]

24. Just follow the instructions, not that difficult. I'll bet it's a lot less than 30K ballots.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

29. Don't call it a "secrecy envelope". Call it a "mask". ....

Then Dems will use it, and Reps will be offended at the attack on their rights and burn the envelopes.

[MustLoveBeagles]

34. ...

[sl8]

36. "A trio of Pennsylvania Supreme Court rulings will likely boost Biden against Trump ..."

A slightly different take.

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-mail-ballot-deadlines-state-supreme-court-ruling-20200917.html

A trio of Pennsylvania Supreme Court rulings will likely boost Biden against Trump in a key state

by Jonathan Lai, Chris Brennan, Jonathan Tamari and Cynthia Fernandez, Updated: September 17, 2020

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court on Thursday issued rulings that could make it easier for people to vote by mail, steps likely to aid Democrat Joe Biden’s prospects and increase the likelihood that results in the critical battleground state won’t be known for days after Election Day.

In three decisions less than seven weeks before the Nov. 3 election, the Democratic-controlled high court extended the deadline for mail ballots to be returned, ruled that voters can use drop boxes to return them, and removed the Green Party’s presidential ticket from the ballot.

The changes will likely allow tens of thousands more mail ballots to be counted than would have been accepted previously. Democrats are expected to vote by mail in disproportionate numbers this fall compared with Republicans, who, interviews and polls show, have been turned off from doing so following President Donald Trump’s false attacks on the method as susceptible to widespread fraud.

[...]

Still, the Trump campaign did prevail on the issue of “naked ballots” — mail ballots that arrive without a separate “secrecy envelope” inside the mailing envelope. That decision is likely to disenfranchise some voters, especially those who are new to voting by mail. Republicans argue that secrecy envelopes are important to ensuring the privacy of mail votes.

[...]

[sl8]

37. Opinion (PDF):

http://www.pacourts.us/assets/files/page-1305/file-10077.pdf