Can we stop posting panicked articles about how it's inevitable that trump will steal the eleciton.

[Salviati]

How about some actual information as to how likely this is: namely - exactly how are electors chosen in your state.

For example - in Washington here is the relevant law:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=29A.56.320

RCW 29A.56.320
Nomination—What names on ballots—How counted.
(1) In the year in which a presidential election is held, each major political party and each minor political party or independent candidate convention that nominates candidates for president and vice president of the United States shall nominate presidential electors for this state. The party or convention shall file with the secretary of state a certificate signed by the presiding officer of the convention at which the presidential electors were chosen, listing the names and addresses of the presidential electors.
(2) The names of presidential electors shall not appear on the ballots. The votes cast for candidates for president and vice president of each political party shall be counted for the candidates for presidential electors of that political party; however, if the interstate compact entitled the "agreement among the states to elect the president by national popular vote," as set forth in RCW 29A.56.300, governs the appointment of the presidential electors for a presidential election as provided in clause 9 of Article III of that compact, then the final appointment of presidential electors for that presidential election shall be in accordance with that compact.

Essentially the state legislature has nothing to do with it. The parties submit a list of their electors, the votes are certified by the secretary of state and the votes for the candidates count for the electors provided by the parties, end of story. (Other than the language about the National Popular Vote Compact). There is no procedure for the state legislature to get involved.

All of this panic seems to stem from the fact that the constitution itself doesn't specify how the states have to do it, but that doesn't mean that the States themselves haven't specified how they select their electors. Each state has laws on the book for how it's done.

Please add below - How does your state select electors - is there any room for the state legislature to just appoint anyone they want regardless of the vote?

[YessirAtsaFact]

1. Yes, please. There is going to be massive turnout

There will likely be chaos and confusion, but if we show up in large enough numbers or mail in enough ballots early enough, we win. There are millions of people willing to crawl over broken glass to vote this jerk Trump out of office.

[ihas2stinkyfeet]

23. amen.

despair is the only thing that can defeat us.

[tinrobot]

2. Agreed.

Yes, we do need to be vigilant and prepare for chaos. We also need to stop freaking out about it. All that does is make us seem weak.

The number one thing we need to focus on is getting out the vote. We are the majority, we need to demonstrate this in no uncertain terms. The greater the margin of the win, the less chaos he can create.

[DeminPennswoods]

3. Thank you

I don't have the PA law in front of me, but I'm sure it's similar.

[Iliyah]

4. Guess who is panicked . .

shithole.

[calguy]

5. I personally don't mind hearing about how trump is planning to steal the election

The more we know, the better prepared we are to deal with it.

[mzmolly]

21. Exactly.

I want the SOB to know he's lost on election night.

[Silent3]

6. How states appoint electors is determined by state law... and state law can be changed.

What is to stop Republican state legislators from voting to ignore the election results, and make it the new law that they themselves appoint the legislators, and having their Republican governor sign off in it?

Heinous, yes. Absolutely illegal? Probably not in many states.

I'm hoping this is still far fetched, but not at all certain that it is.

At least there are Democratic in many of the swing states, and Kasich in Ohio has already endorsed Biden, so he's not likely to pull this shit.

[Rule of Claw]

10. Except DeWine is the Governor.

And yes, he is unlikely to pull that.

[Silent3]

15. Oh, yeah, forget Kasich wasn't governer there anymore, but it's good to know...

...DeWine isn't likely to join in on this either.

[Yavin4]

11. What's in it for Republican state legislators?

Why would they risk their careers and their lives for Trump? What do they get out of it?

[Silent3]

20. I've given up looking for reason from Republican politicians

They might figure that if they can pull off this kind of coup, they'd be sitting pretty in the new regime.

And some of them, who aren't just cravenly looking for personal advantage, are just as crazy and zealous as their supporters.

[Yavin4]

24. We're talking state legislators here.

They will have to face the voters after this. There goes any chance for them to advance their careers in the state.

[Doremus]

26. If you're asking about Ohio, the legislature is overwhelmingly repuke.

Their base will not only be glad they did it, they'll only have a hard time with reelection if they DON'T do it.

[Salviati]

7. Other states:

Here are the relevant laws in other states, until I get bored.

Again, to reiterate, people seem to be panicking because the US constitution does not have laws to specify how the electors are chosen, but that doesn't mean that the states themselves don't have laws. That's the whole point of that part of the constitution.

[Salviati]

8. Alabama

https://www.sos.alabama.gov/alabama-votes/voter/election-laws

Section 17-14-32
Names on ballots; vote for candidate counted as vote for designated electors.
The names of all candidates for President and Vice President who are nominated as provided in this chapter shall be printed on the official ballots under the emblem of their respective political parties, as filed in the office of the Secretary of State of Alabama. The names of the electors of the candidates for President and Vice President shall not be printed upon the ballots. A vote for a candidate for President or Vice President shall be counted as a vote for the electors of the political party or independent body by which such candidates were named, as listed on the certificate of nomination or nominating petition.

(Acts 1975, 3rd Ex. Sess., No. 138, p. 370, §3; §17-19-3; amended and renumbered by Act 2006-570, p. 1331, §72.)

[Salviati]

13. Alaska

http://www.akleg.gov/basis/statutes.asp#15.20.061

Sec. 15.30.050. Interpretation of votes cast for candidates for President and Vice-President.
In voting for presidential electors, a vote marked for the candidates for President and Vice-President is considered and counted as a vote for the presidential electors of the party or for the presidential electors named under AS 15.30.026, as appropriate.




Sec. 15.30.060. Notification of electors.
When the results of the election of presidential electors have been determined, the director shall send a certificate of election to each elector and shall notify the electors of the time and place of their meeting and of their duties as electors.

[Salviati]

19. Arizona

https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/16/00507.htm

16-507. Presentation of presidential candidates on ballot

A. When presidential electors are to be voted for, the presidential and vice-presidential candidates therefor of each party shall be grouped and printed together, arranged in alphabetical order according to the presidential candidate's surname.

B. Presidential electors, which, shall be enclosed in a bracketed list and next to the bracketed list shall be printed in bold type the surname of the presidential candidate and vice-presidential candidate who is seeking election jointly with the presidential candidate shall be listed directly below the name of the presidential candidate. The indicator for the selection of the presidential and vice-presidential candidates shall be directly next to the surname of the presidential candidate, and one mark directly next to a presidential candidate's surname shall be counted as a vote for each elector in the bracketed list next to the presidential and vice-presidential candidates.


(I'm probably not going to continue too much longer, but the point is that every state has laws on the books for selecting their slate of electors. The Constitution may not specify how they're chosen but state law does.)

[Autumn]

9. You know you can hide topics you don't like. Maybe others want to discuss them, this is a discussion

board for discussion of all things political. You can also contact the owner of the site, or buy it and run it your way. Now I will add this.

Yes states have laws on the books for how things are done. Republicans seem to enjoy ignoring those laws on the books and flaunting all those accepted procedures, and there seems to be no penalties for all those different laws and procedures that are often ignored. And a lot of states have Republicans in charge.

Just saying.

[Rule of Claw]

12. But not MI, WI, and PA

Legislatures can't change laws by Fiat.

[Autumn]

14. Yeah right, Republican politicians always abide by the laws.

And we know a corrupt SC never over steps it's boundaries. Does 2000 ring a bell?

[Rule of Claw]

17. I mean at a certain point, an old fashioned overthrow by Trump

co-opting the military is a bigger concern. This is just fantasy.

[Autumn]

28. Trump co-opting the military is a bigger concern? That's the fantasy.

The biggest concern is how Trump has packed the courts. That's the concern.

[Rule of Claw]

29. What you are asking me to worry about

is a court, any court, a kangaroo court, accepting a change to a law in regards to how elections are conducted without the head of that state's signature.

A law that previously required such head of state's signature.

In a state with a GOP governor? Maybe. Dem? Fugheddaboutit.

[Autumn]

30. Same reason you are asking me to worry about fat ass trump co opting the military.

Have a nice time.

[Doremus]

27. Hear, hear. Thank you.

[Roland99]

16. WA isn't likely to be a state targeted, though

Think: OH, FL, WI, MI, PA, AZ

[Rule of Claw]

18. WI MI PA all have

Democratic, and loyal and popular Governors. So no resolution would pass.

[Roland99]

22. PA has a GOP-majority in both houses of the legislature, though

But, to me, if Biden wins by enough electoral votes that it does comprise a multiple-state victory, this attempt by TraitorTrump to remain in office would a laughable joke from the death throes of a wannabe-tyrant

[Rule of Claw]

25. Does not matter

they could in no way override a sure veto.

[BumRushDaShow]

34. Here is the law here in PA

As of 2018, the PA General Assembly no longer has any "super-majority" so they cannot override Tom Wolf's (D) veto should they decide to want to pull a fast one. The PA Secretary of State is an appointed (D) too.

Plus there had been no law requiring electors to vote based on the popular vote, however the electors here have generally done so anyway.

Electoral College

Section 1501. Election of Presidential Electors.--At the
general election to be held in the year 1940, and every fourth
year thereafter, there shall be elected by the qualified
electors of the Commonwealth, persons to be known as electors
of President and Vice-President of the United States, and
referred to in this act as presidential electors, equal in
number to the whole number of senators and representatives to
which this State may be entitled in the Congress of the United
States.

Section 1502. Meeting of Electors; Duties.--The electors
chosen, as aforesaid, shall assemble at the seat of government
of this Commonwealth, at 12 o'clock noon of the day which is,
or may be, directed by the Congress of the United States, and
shall then and there perform the duties enjoined upon them by
the Constitution and laws of the United States.

Section 1503. Filling of Vacancies Existing in Presidential
Electors.--If any such presidential elector shall die, or for
any cause fail to attend at the seat of government at the time
appointed by law, the electors present shall proceed to choose
viva voce a person of the same political party as such deceased
or absent elector, to fill the vacancy occasioned thereby, and
immediately after such choice the name of the person so chosen
shall be transmitted by the presiding officer of the college
to the Governor, who shall forthwith cause notice in writing
to be given to such person of his election; and the person so
elected (and not the person in whose place he shall have been
chosen) shall be an elector and shall, with the other electors,
perform the duties enjoined on them.

Section 1504. Compensation of Presidential Electors;
Expenses of Electoral College.--Each presidential elector
aforesaid, shall receive from the State Treasury the sum of
three dollars for every day spent in traveling to, remaining
at, and returning from, the place of meeting aforesaid, and
shall be entitled to mileage at the rate of three cents per
mile to and from his home, to be computed by the ordinary mail
route between their homes and the place of meeting aforesaid.
And the contingent expenses of the electoral college, not
exceeding one hundred dollars in amount, shall likewise be paid
by the State Treasurer, in both cases upon warrants drawn by
the presiding officer of the college.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/US/PDF/1937/0/0320..PDF (PDF file)

[Karma13612]

31. Here is New York's:

My brain is fried, I am not sure what some of it means, but maybe others can translate.

Section 12-106
Electoral college; vote of the electors

Immediately after the organization of the electoral college, the electors shall then and there vote by ballot for president and vice president, but no elector shall vote for more than one person who is a resident of this state. They shall name in separate ballots the persons voted for as president and vice president. They shall make and sign six certificates of all the votes given by them, each of which certificates shall contain two distinct lists, one with the votes for president and one with the votes for vice president. There shall be annexed to each of the certificates one of the lists of electors which shall have been furnished to them by the state board of elections. They shall seal up the certificates so made and certify upon each that the lists of all the votes of this state given for president and vice president are contained therein.

Not sure about the phrase that I made bold.
Also, do I understand that they do this thing 6-fold?

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/ELN/12-106

[Salviati]

36. I think the bolded statement...

... seems to just be reinforcing the criteria from article II of the US constitution:

“The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves.”

[Karma13612]

39. Ok thanks

But if these are electors for my state, isn’t ok that they be from the state?

[Awsi Dooger]

32. It won't be anything resembling normalcy

I have emphasized that throughout. Trump was never going to debate, debate, debate then depart. I'm not sure what he'll do other than it will be the biggest cheat he can come up with.

The polls don't interest me anymore. When there is a known extreme it tends to play out far beyond any projection. Coronavirus is an extreme. That is well beyond estimates. Trump's dishonesty is to extreme. At the most pivotal outcome of his life there is no reason to believe the lowlife aspects won't extend well past anything contemplated right now. I would say they probably have other cheats going on, along with the legislature angle.

I'll just hope to be wrong.

[spinbaby]

33. Might I refresh your memory

About that certain November day in 2016 when we were all smugly counting our chickens when suddenly DU was down and Trump was President.

[Salviati]

37. I wasn't smugly counting my chickens...

... but there's a difference between gaming the system, and an outright coup.

I've got a big problem with people who are in reality describing a literal coup of the US Government, to literally ignore election results and appoint a president in violation of numerous states laws, pretending that it anything less than that.

This would be a difference in kind to what has come before, and while it is something that we should consider, lumping it into "just more election chicanery" or "just another tactic he could take" is a bad idea. Recognizing it for what it is, and calling it by it's real name will be the strongest defense against it.

[Blue_true]

35. I agree. I am trashing such threads without reading anything past the title.

I am also trashing the “I feel so hopeless” OPs that keep popping up like wild mushrooms.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. A lot of the "I feel so hopeless " posts are by design.